Stainless manifold Fell apart 4 the last time!!

[FastFwd]

Hey guys,

I've had one of those shit xspower turbo manifolds in the past which i had problems with, so i got a mate who's a boiler maker to make me a custom manifold, same design as the xspower one but instead of 1.5mm stainless it was in 3mm. Lasted 6 months and today i was driving and the f#@kn wastegate Fell off. I had a bit of a laugh when i seen it. lucky my screamer pipe got it suck so the gate didn't go rolling down the road. But it was funny at the time when i looked at it.

Anyways come to the conclusion that for a daily driver stainless manifolds are not the way to go. soo ive purchased a cast iron one from japan which i have to wait 10 days for but coming to my question at last :) "anyone know the difference in sound between the stainless and the cast iron?" also performance shouldn't be much difference yeh?

Changing from cast iron to stainless on my s15 sounded alot different, more Pingy and cut spool time 1/4th. You reckon this will make much loss on my civic?

[SLOWEGG]

Depends on the design, collecter, etc aswell. Why not order something from the states? All top stuff over there and they use stainless. Few bit of cars over there making 700HP on stainless manifolds and not breaking.

If you ordered a cast iron log manifold, you're stealing power from yourself. And your motor is built too isnt it?

[Limbo]

the cast iron is usually less efficient as they make only log ones. THe funky stainless steel ones have better flow but stainless steel is brittle, and does not flex at high temp, thus cracking.

The stainless steal needs to be re-enforced at certain points. Most good exhaust shops will know where to stop it from cracking.
I know someone with the cheap XS ones had his re-enforced and it hasn't recracked yet.

[FastFwd]

Depends on the design, collecter, etc aswell. Why not order something from the states? All top stuff over there and they use stainless. Few bit of cars over there making 700HP on stainless manifolds and not breaking.

If you ordered a cast iron log manifold, you're stealing power from yourself. And your motor is built too isnt it?

Well my first stainless manifold was from US and that broke within months, and i repaired it a bunch of times. always failed, if you know anyone that has them pre-made High grade stainless that you can assure will work fine for 1+ years then please let me know but everyone ive spoken to says "stainless should manifolds should not be driven daily or else you will have this issue after 6 months". on other cars where there are reenforcments its not to bad but in our cases where we are turbo'in a non turbo car the whole turbo, dump, gate etc is all hanging off the manifold. That stress + heat will eventually cause it to fail.

Yeh my cars built, full forge setup etc. I've had few quotes for a complete custom professional job, Sixboost.com in NSW make high quality ones out of Steem pipe, not Stainless because they also thing Stainless not the way to go. but there looking 800-1200. Semi not keen on paying for that amount before xmas.

[FastFwd]

the cast iron is usually less efficient as they make only log ones. THe funky stainless steel ones have better flow but stainless steel is brittle, and does not flex at high temp, thus cracking.

The stainless steal needs to be re-enforced at certain points. Most good exhaust shops will know where to stop it from cracking.
I know someone with the cheap XS ones had his re-enforced and it hasn't recracked yet.

Honestly dude, with that xs power one. Omg i re-enforces that like a a spiderweb. i had that thing looking so strong but still it would always find a way to crack. If not on the welds it would crack in the middle of the pipe.

[spetz]

I heard it's good to make turbo manifolds from steam pipe

[FastFwd]

This is the one im about to purchase...Wastegate fits straight on but its t3, which i will need to convert to t28 for my gt28rs. which isnt a big deal as i have a new flange ready to be welded on.

http://www.turbounlimited.com/catalog/images/t3%20manifold.jpg

[Limbo]

yeah i think it comes down to the grade of stainless steel also.

Steam pipe is expensive but will last

[SLOWEGG]

Did the welds crack or the metal itself? Your first manifold from the states was probably some ebay crap like XS?

And who told you stainless manifolds will have problems after 6 months daily driven? Load of rubbish.

IF you have the money go FullRace. Theres other companies like peakboost, RLD-FAB (DLO01 uses), AFI, etc. Just have a look on honda-tech.com. Most of them come with lifetime warrenty aswell.

[barefootbonzai]

lmao, lashing out cause you brought cheap rubbish parts.

[panda[cRx]]

no offence to ur boilermaker mate but i'm guessing he doesnt have much experience with turbo manifolds?

as for XS i dont think much needs to be said lol

but yeah as others suggested spend a lil money and get a better manifold

[Limo]

Full Race all the way. its been over 1 yr of daily boost and no probs.

[FastFwd]

dunno, im gonna go steam pipe. sorry guys, ive just seen the worst and ive been burnt. Steam pipe seems to take alot more heat that stainless before it starts to give so im gonna go with that.

[JasonGilholme]

you get what you pay for when it comes to manifolds.

A custom job usually isn't the best way to go unless they've been making manifolds for the exact setup before.

Best of going with a HIGH QUALITY manifold from the US.

XS power = poo :thumbsup:

[SLOWEGG]

you get what you pay for when it comes to manifolds.

A custom job usually isn't the best way to go unless they've been making manifolds for the exact setup before.

Best of going with a HIGH QUALITY manifold from the US.

XS power = poo :thumbsup:

i think its worser then poo.

[FastFwd]

i think its worser then poo.

dude hahahah that first manifold i had was only a temp to get me going until i found something more permanent. that xs manifold seriously fell apart soo badly. was sooo SH$T!!! worse than poo... lol

Nah defiantly going custom steam pipe...and only from someone who just makes manifolds for a living. Not just a normal exhaust shop or anything like that. Want this done right this time as its the only thing holding me back from boosting this baby upto 20psi.

cheers guys

[SLOWEGG]

Do it right, order it from the states. Just go FullRace, dont think money is an issue for you since u got a built turbo honda and a S15.

[FastFwd]

Do it right, order it from the states. Just go FullRace, dont think money is an issue for you since u got a built turbo honda and a S15.

Its not really but im over spending money on my civic because its been a drain over the last few years. Plus it needs a repray to finish her off and im saving for that.

but dont worry gonna do the right thing this time.

[Lukezen27]

Hey FastFwd

I’ve been watching this thread with interest as I have a cast iron manifold myself..

I’m keen to see your power loss moving from tune length manifold to cast iron…

As your engine is built for boost and a DOHC VTec the power loss with be exaggerated compared to my low boost setup but still interesting to see…

LukeZen

[FastFwd]

Hey FastFwd

I’ve been watching this thread with interest as I have a cast iron manifold myself..

I’m keen to see your power loss moving from tune length manifold to cast iron…

As your engine is built for boost and a DOHC VTec the power loss with be exaggerated compared to my low boost setup but still interesting to see…

LukeZen


yeah would be good to know hey.

But i dont think im going cast iron anymore. I'm getting a custom steam pipe one, and probably Ceramic coated. Honestly i dont think on low boost it would make much difference. In my s15 going from cast iron to stainless was deffinatly an upgrade but i not a huge deal. It spools the gt28rs 300-600rpm quicker and has more responce. I felt maybe a bit of loss in midrange power. But that was running 15psi. So if your running liike 6-7psi on a civic i wouldnt see how much difference it would make. Deffinatly make some, maybe little bit of responce power and slight quicker spool time but it would be minimal.

[SLOWEGG]

Its not just about the material used, its about the design, lengths of the piping, collecter, etc.

IF tuned it will make a difference. Look at the article on fullrace.com log vs even length manifold.

[Lukezen27]

yeah would be good to know hey.

But i dont think im going cast iron anymore. I'm getting a custom steam pipe one, and probably Ceramic coated. Honestly i dont think on low boost it would make much difference. In my s15 going from cast iron to stainless was deffinatly an upgrade but i not a huge deal. It spools the gt28rs 300-600rpm quicker and has more responce. I felt maybe a bit of loss in midrange power. But that was running 15psi. So if your running liike 6-7psi on a civic i wouldnt see how much difference it would make. Deffinatly make some, maybe little bit of responce power and slight quicker spool time but it would be minimal.

Yeah for me the difference would be f++k all and I sure do like that fact that my manifold will last longer than my car lol

[FastFwd]

Its not just about the material used, its about the design, lengths of the piping, collecter, etc.

IF tuned it will make a difference. Look at the article on fullrace.com log vs even length manifold.

Chill dude i know...

Deffinatly make a difference on higher PSI but on 6-7 it wont make a huge difference, deffinatly nothing noticable enough to say "WOW i just spent and extra 1000 dollars to get a custom one made and it was worth it"

[IEVAQ8]

u want a good qualtiy top of the line of the shelf stainles manifold????
go and check out www.fullrace.com
they make the best of the best exhaust manifolds............my tuner only uses there manifolds, put it this way, my tuners cvar makes 440kw at the wheels, for 3 years it was like that with the same manifold, and the cat was his daily............give it a go.....however u will pay for the quality and workmanship

[Weq]

thre are sooo many sponsors on honda-tech that make quality manifolds. DOnt look any further. It seems Full-race has the best marketing team though, look at all the nutthuggers. ^^^^^ Ricers.

[FastFwd]

u want a good qualtiy top of the line of the shelf stainles manifold????
go and check out www.fullrace.com
they make the best of the best exhaust manifolds............my tuner only uses there manifolds, put it this way, my tuners cvar makes 440kw at the wheels, for 3 years it was like that with the same manifold, and the cat was his daily............give it a go.....however u will pay for the quality and workmanship

I just bought a Steam pipe custom made one. looks pretty good, should come in tomorrow. But im interesting in look at fullrace. the link you supplied doesnt work

[IEVAQ8]

sorri.......the link is: http://www.full-race.com/
check it out

[EKVTIR-T]

lol ,how bout lovefab
http://www.lovefab.com/html/bseries.html

[EGB18CT]

3mm pipe holy batman thats thick, how was all that weight supported... agreed to the point... 'buying cheap parts/crap quality and lashing out... only got yourself to blame...

[DLO01]

Have a look on US Honda-tech. Heaps of quality manifolds. :thumbsup:

[FastFwd]

3mm pipe holy batman thats thick, how was all that weight supported... agreed to the point... 'buying cheap parts/crap quality and lashing out... only got yourself to blame...

No S#$T ohh wellz my folt..got new mani now. Steem pipe, strong azz.....almost finished putting it back together...keen to see what its like, sound/performance etc. My old one was ramhorn style, the one i got now is a little shorter but way more solid. ill put pictures up of the new setup when its finished. got new wastegate too 48mm HKS, still gotta fabricate the new screemer tho.

[Lukezen27]

No S#$T ohh wellz my folt..got new mani now. Steem pipe, strong azz.....almost finished putting it back together...keen to see what its like, sound/performance etc. My old one was ramhorn style, the one i got now is a little shorter but way more solid. ill put pictures up of the new setup when its finished. got new wastegate too 48mm HKS, still gotta fabricate the new screemer tho.

Do you dose or have a BOV?

[1996ek1]

Do you dose or have a BOV?

Hes running a bov

[Lukezen27]

Hes running a bov

Dang

Oh well

[STR8E180]

stainless steel is a piece of shit for manifolds
doesnt matter wat grade they use
most manifolds are made from 306 / 316 stainless
even the big brand manifolds are made from this grade stainless
and it just doesnt cut it when it comes to heat
stainless doesnt handel heat wat so ever
keep in mind the manifold needs to support the weight of the turbo AND exhaust housing
once the manifold heats up and it has to support all that weight while the engine is moving around there is high chance of the manifold cracking

[[[d a n n y]]]

stainless steel is a piece of shit for manifolds
doesnt matter wat grade they use
most manifolds are made from 306 / 316 stainless
even the big brand manifolds are made from this grade stainless
and it just doesnt cut it when it comes to heat
stainless doesnt handel heat wat so ever
keep in mind the manifold needs to support the weight of the turbo AND exhaust housing
once the manifold heats up and it has to support all that weight while the engine is moving around there is high chance of the manifold cracking

indeed..
my exhaust manifold on my evo is stainless steel
but over time it warped and made a gap in between the turbo and the exhaust and started leaking..
so i chaged it back to stock and it was all better..

[DLO01]

stainless steel is a piece of shit for manifolds
doesnt matter wat grade they use
most manifolds are made from 306 / 316 stainless
even the big brand manifolds are made from this grade stainless
and it just doesnt cut it when it comes to heat
stainless doesnt handel heat wat so ever
keep in mind the manifold needs to support the weight of the turbo AND exhaust housing
once the manifold heats up and it has to support all that weight while the engine is moving around there is high chance of the manifold cracking

What a load of bollocks. Tell that to the thousands of people around the world that have not had a problem at all. If its designed right, fabricated right, you'll have no problems. I don't think all the fabrication companies would continue to manufacture these manifolds in bulk if they fail. You get what you pay for. If you go cheap you'll have problems without a doubt, but that goes for anything.

[1996ek1]

Thats why brands like lovfab, full-race, neukin all offer lifetime warrenty to cracks on their SS manifolds...

Because they are soooo crap..... :rolleyes:

[FastFwd]

old thread guys but yeh your deffiantly right. I put in Steam pipe custom manifold into my civic about 2 months ago or less and no hickups so far.

[STR8E180]

What a load of bollocks. Tell that to the thousands of people around the world that have not had a problem at all. If its designed right, fabricated right, you'll have no problems. I don't think all the fabrication companies would continue to manufacture these manifolds in bulk if they fail. You get what you pay for. If you go cheap you'll have problems without a doubt, but that goes for anything.

bollocks?? ive been in the trade for most of my life i think i would know wat im talking about
if u dont argee with me there is no need to speak towards me like that

the manifold which u are running is a full-race manifold which is not the same grade as most stainless manifolds
full race is one of the only brand of stanless manifold which is good for manifolds (i personally love there manifolds, great design and very good grade stainless)
most of the manifolds which are made are 306 and 316 grade stainless which isnt good enuff for manifolds

keep in mind that 306 - 316 grade stainless is OK for manifolds AS long as its very think
but also keep in mind that most 306 -316 grade stainless manifolds ARNT very think
full-race and lovefab (there might be more out there but this is as far as my research has gone) would have to be the only brand manifolds which make very think walled stainless manifolds
alot of brands state its thick walled stainless BUT thats all bullshit from the manifolds which i have seen 1st hand

ive had to repair both TRUST and HKS manifolds due to them cracking and keep in mind these manifolds are NOT cheap
ive had one customer with a HKS manifold crack on him 3 times and after the 3rd time he went with a steam pipe manifold and has neva had any problems since

MANIFOLDS
Turbocharger exhaust manifolds play a important roll in the performance of a TurboCharger
Sitting between the cylinder head and the turbocharger of ur engine, the exhaust manifold is more then just a piece of metal that connects your engine to your turbo to create boost. The exhaust manifold is a carefully designed item that has its own unique role to play in transferring heat energy in the most efficient method possible directly to your turbine wheel.

Changing exhaust manifold in the quest for more power and improved response is a modification path that has only been trodden for the past couple of years. The low cost of fabrication in certain Asian countries has driven the price of manifolds down so an exhaust manifold swap is something that many more enthusiasts now consider.
There are plenty of tricks and pitfalls when it comes to selecting an upgraded turbocharger manifold however before you go parting with your hard-earned money you need to know the basics and judge your selection

MATERIAL
Forget about design for a moment as its the material used in turbocharger exhaust manifolds that has the biggest bearing on whether the manifold will be successful or not. Living in a unique high temperature environment and capable of rapidly heating up from ambient through to red hot its the exhaust manifold material that takes the biggest buffeting from a durability viewpoint.
The very best manifold for a turbocharger exhaust manifold is cast iron. It has been proven time and time over the years and evidenced by the fact that every single turbocharged vehicle manufacturer cast their exhaust manifolds from iron/steel blends. Another reason for this is that the high production lines that manufacturers undertake, also makes casting the manifolds the cheapest and simplest form of production. Cast manifolds are a win on both hands.
Coming in close second is what is referred to as "steam pipe". These small cast bends and straight sections were originally made for high pressure pipeline industry and come with a neat little ground edge on each end for neat and eazy fabrication.
Being extremely thick walled cast pipe, steam pipe isn’t easily affected by heat from welding bends together and once cleaned up on a sanding belt can be heat coated or high temperature painted to look fairly decent, designed to withstand temperatures of 600 degrees celcius on a continuous basis and anything up to 800 degrees it is rare to ever see a steam pipe manifold fall apart or crack due to heat unless its due to poor fabrication and poor welding process. TIG welded properly you will most likely never see a problem with a steam pipe manifold
Stainless steel manifolds although looking good to the naked eye no where near have the strength and durability of cast iron or steam pipe manifolds
Then why bother making exhaust manifolds out of stainless steel. the answer is simple: looks sell, a manifold which looks the best must be the best? A properly designed and welded manifold made of Schedule 10, 3mm thick 316 stainless steel will go the distance lasting many years while still looking ok, but this steel has none of the temperature ratings as cast iron and steam pipe.
Rated at a continuous heat of 400 degrees and intermittent handling up to 600 degrees an improperly tuned engine can push the limits of stainless steel to breaking points causing it to crack.

DESIGN
For a Daily driven street car where response is most important then overall power, the shorter the exhaust manifold runners the greater the response and torque the engine will generate
reason is retaining heat in the exhaust gas. if heat is lost B4 the gas reaches the turbo the gas contracts and is less effective in pushing the turbine wheel. The thicker and less heat-conductive the material used in the exhaust manifold the greater the potential energy to drive the turbo charger hence the more power you will end up making. Another way of keeping the heat in the system is to ensure that all runners going to the turbine housing as short as possible which gives less potential loss of heat. Any time you see an exhaust manifold glow from heat think of it as a lost opportunity to make power.
So why do some of the more high performance turbocharger kits come with long sweeping tuned length runners? This comes down to potential management of back pressure. The turbine housing is the biggest restriction in the exhaust system. Regardless of the manifold design the exhaust gas will have to enter the turbine housing threw the turbo flange which is a small hole, hit the turbine wheel/blades and then flow all around the turbine housing. The size of the housing has very big influence on back pressure.

Heat
The exhaust gas drives the turbine wheel BUT primarily heat is part of its energy
this is why cast iron manifold equipped engines always do a good job in bringing the turbocharger on boost quicker then a stainless manifold because there is less heat lost because of the thicker cast iron walls of the manifold
Keeping the manifold runners short will also help in bringing a turbocharger on boost faster because there is less chance of heat escaping, a short runner design manifold is better for on/off throttle type driving where the turbo is on and of boost where turbine wheel is constantly speeding up and slowing down.
Drag and track racing where there is a constant speed there manifold will focus on tuned length and clean integrated collectors

Diameter (bore size of runners)
There is no point using over sized diameter runners on a turbocharged manifold. Using a large diameter runner on a Non turbo engine will give interesting effects BUT I am not here to talk about non turbo headers I’m here to talk about turbo manifolds so dont cross this info onto non turbo engines.
Using a large diameter runner on a turbo charged manifold will slow down the exhaust gas which means LOSE OF VELOCITY and LOSE OF RESPONSE
The faster u can get the exhaust gas to the turbine wheel the less heat will be lost which means the more power and response can be made.
The rule i stand by when making manifolds is to keep the runner bore the same size as the cylinder head exhaust ports (40 to 42 bore for CA's and SR's)
2 into 1 manifolds are key designs when it comes to keeping velocity up this is because the collector wont slow down the exhaust gas as much as a 4 into 1 manifold design, the collector is the one area of the manifold where the exhaust gas will slow down the most because of the big diameter due to the runners all merging together.
note: 2 into 1 manifolds work grear with split pulse turbine exhaust housings

Tuned length manifolds
Tuned length manifolds are always used in top end racing applications. This is where every last horsepower counts and getting as much out of the parts as possible. The nice long runners on tuned length manifolds are more designed so that each of the runners merge smoothly into the collector so that exhaust gas's all flow into the turbine housing all from the same angle and so that exhaust pulse do not run into each other.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/str8e180/Megan_SR20DET_Manifold_big111.jpg
note: on low mount stainless steel manifolds, cylinder number 1 runer joins the collector at a right angle just b4 the turbine exhaust housing
it would be beter to merge this pipe further back to try and get all the exhaust gas to enter the turbine housing all from the same direction

External Wastegate
When it comes to external wastegate integration the wastegate pipe outlet is very important when it comes to controlling boost it doesn’t matter on the size of the wastegate or the pipe feeding the wastegate if the wastegate has to try and get exhaust gas to change its flow of direction it will not be efficient. This is why a good designed manifold will have smooth flow towards the wastegate and will take the exhaust gas just be for the exhaust gas enters the turbo charger by doing this the manifold will evenly take exhaust gas from each cylinder

[STR8E180]

];1534528']indeed..
my exhaust manifold on my evo is stainless steel
but over time it warped and made a gap in between the turbo and the exhaust and started leaking..
so i chaged it back to stock and it was all better..

this is a manifold for a evo which came as part of a GT3037 HKS kit

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/str8e180/DSC00068.jpg

the manifold cracked 3 times
after the 3rd time the owner of the car had the shits with it and went with one of my custom steam pipe manifolds

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/str8e180/DSC00059.jpg

since changing over to this steam pipe manifold his neva been back with any problems

[FastFwd]

I've been to three customs exhaust shops and they all said to me, if your looking at getting a custom made stainless manifold to last you a lifetime you would have to look at having 3mm piping, plus having someone who has had alot of experience in welding create it for you. Then they have all said "your better off going steam pipe for your setup, you cant go wrong" Ive heard nothing but good stuff about steam pipe and haven't heard a bad story since.

Guys This thread is not about whats the worst manifold...its about what works the best. Steam pipe, as i said you cant go wrong (only from experience) Stainless hmmm ive had a shit load of problems but i cant talk because ive bought a crappy 1-1.5mm thick XS power manifold - I wish i could bag stainless but as str8e180 says its all about the thickness, design, welder ETC ETC.

But in the end no one bags steam pipe...that says it all!!! pretty much

[DLO01]

Lol.

Hey man, I don't have a full race manifold, so I don't know where you got that from. I am the nicest person toward anyone here on these forums. So if I had a go at you I know your wrong.

I don't care how much experience you have had in the industry, maybe you don't know about these other companies that produce these high quality stainless manifolds with 100% backup, so I understand that, but you make out that you do know more than you actually do. I as with others have answered your questions and its not about proving you wrong, its providing others with this information that stainless manifolds are perfectly fine. As with anything, I never condone anything that is cheaply price and cheaply manufactured.

[Zilli]

How about you credit where you cut and pasted this material from it's not your work.:confused:

LOL

i was going to say the same thing!

[FastFwd]

Its all about the old saying:

You can get three types of service:

GOOD service CHEAP wont be FAST
GOOD service FAST wont be CHEAP
Fast service CHEAP wont be GOOD

or

Your get what you pay for

[Weq]

Im going to say i agree with some points STR8 has said; that being just cause its a name brand, doesnt mean its good. lol. There are many many shitty stainless manifolds out there. They are definatly perpetuating the stereotype that all stainless manifolds crack. So i dont blame STR8 for getting confused. Also, this whole rubbish of 316 or 304 grade stainless being thick enough for a durable exhaust manifold is perpetuated by sellers trying to flog off inferior products. No one with any sense would ever make a statement like that, but because these cheap manifolds have flooded the market of the past 5years, people start beleiving it as fact. Its nothing more then marketing.

Its defaintly a matter of using a grade of stainless for the job. Any fabricator worth his money would be able to pic a grade to suit an application.

IE. light-weight, yet durable for the application (small turbo, or turbo supported with supports) you can get away with a thiner grade.

Best overall application, use something thick walled.

And it doesnt have to cost you money. The amount of bandwagon jumpers and nutthuggers in the honda world is absoultly amazing. Just jump on a deal when u can find one...

I got my stainless manifold for $300 and it came with a turbosmart external wastegate. It had a burns collector! Not the most elegant welding, but it was used for 3 years without an issue. Never looked like cracking.

[EGB18CT]

if you want quality look at 321 stainless if you can afford it. Its not all how thick the manifold is, you have to look at the weight of the manifold, if it needs to be supported etc, sometimes thick manifolds are worse as they are too heavy and therefore crack too. A well engineered manifold is the goal with using the best grade stainless you can afford. ie 316 to 321 would be optimal. Just take into consideration the weight and the placement of the turbo etc and the bracing it may require - some common knowledge would prevail here, and then if you understand your grades of stainless and the content of different metals in it then you should be set. At the end its you get what you pay for, you pay peanuts youll get monkies in some cases. Also regular maintanence is also the key, ie heating up cooling down, general cleaning and inspections all play a part.