CAI & RAM intake legal?

[Gio]

Are cai and ram intakes legal for p plate drivers in nsw as long as the pod isnt exposed in the engine bay?

Thanks. Chris.

[Frost_FD]

They are illegal here in perth if you dont have a permit

[kazam]

y wouldnt the SRI and CAI be legal??? and the only thing you could get defected for is exposed pod, which with CAI u dont have that problem neway.

[Gio]

because its a performance mod

[albert107]

In NSW, that will be legal if the intake covered from outside (means not HKS, Trust, K.N Pod) unless its got a air box.

[Frost_FD]

Oh im so ill be safe, im getting a CAI

[Kiz_EG6]

When you guys say "illegal", you are referring to it's roadworthiness...

The question i assume is "is it legal for a p-plater?"
I am assuming that if the law is the same as Vic, then it states no performance enhancing engine mods... I leave the interpretation open on that, but i would say don't tempt them, coz you will get done for anything nowadays and the fines are HUGE.
I would look into a K&N replacement filter element for a bit more breathability!

[Gio]

fark, yeah so lame, p platers can drive these shitty unsafe holdens with however much kw's they have on them and we cant put an aftermarket filter on our 4cyl hatch? wtf.

[dsp26]

CAI IS NOT LEGAL with either According to Department of Environment & Climate Change (New EPA) despite RTA saying OK to CAI.

I know coz i've got my Noise/Emissions/Anti-Tampering Inspection this saturday...

[johnprocter]

lol iam confused.

[Riviera]

hahaha aint that the truth, i saw a p plater down the goldie drifting in his stock white falcon done 2 fishies then smashed up the curb. i couldnt help but laugh. then almost got collected by the traffic when retrieving his hubcap lol

isnt it only illegal if it is exposed, like next to the battery and such lalala catch fire, thats what i heard on the honda cruise anywayz.

And depending on how short your SRI is it would be exposed either way would it not??

[JaCe]

For those unknowing, this is about the rule that P platers can't have performance modified vehicles- it's not about roadworthiness/sound levels/etc..

I think it's one of those things which you wouldn't get done for, but if you had attracted attention for something else and the cops needed to do you for something- then they would use it.

[Limbo]

any CAI or RAM type intake with an exposed filter is illegal. Which means to make it legal you need to box the pod.

[akina]

dont catch attention and ur fine...
unlike a big cannon where they can hear it even at idle...

[dsp26]

Sorry fellas... I argued every point ever been discussed about the use of CAI/WAI/Pods by clubs/forums/performance shops/RTA and the DECC is adamant about both being unroadworthy.

The legailty of CAI being legal because the pod wasn't exposed in the engine bay was apparently a myth which is fair enough because it still increases induction noise... especially on vtec hondas.

P Plater or not you can't have it... i give up on this shit... just went back to stock airbox WITH the freaking resonator (which i'll remove after my final test).. that shit really is restrictive.....

The DECC now check for:
Noise - Exhaust & Induction
Emmisions - Exhaust
Anti-Tampering - Modifications to Intake & Exhaust.

I extensively enquired about the latter (Anti-Tampering) and APPARENTLY a full modified exhaust system is fine as long as you have the stock muffler. Discovery of restrictor plates between flanges will incur a fine and be reported back to the DECC.

With Induction.. you have to have every piece from factory including all resonators.. which means no oil catch can.

I have yet to ask if engineering makes all these rules redundant

[tinkerbell]

I know coz i've got my Noise/Emissions/Anti-Tampering Inspection this saturday...

what on earth is THAT?

you get busted?

[tinkerbell]

Discovery of restrictor plates between flanges will incur a fine and be reported back to the DECC.

what on earth?

who told you this, from where?

[dsp26]

what on earth?

who told you this, from where?

The restrictor plate I speak of is like an aluminium piece traced to the shape of the flange between muffler/pipe (i was hoping to pass it off as a gasket, but seems they check everything thoroughly now).... i had a 2,5inch system which was loud.. i made one with a 1.5inch hole and placed it there... it was discovered but was let off because my full exhaust system still made 88dB on 5700rpm and 89dB on throttle off.... only reason i'm going back was coz i didn't have stock induction system which i now have and re-installed last night... pass dB is AT or below 90dB @ 5700rpm

The DECC approved inspection centre i went to in Granville told me this.... it conflicts with their "Anti_tampering" policy because it is considered a temporary item the exact same way a removable N1 silencer is for cannons. ANY exhaust/sound control devices apparently had to be permanent/welded.. ie cannon silencer is pass-able if proven to be permanent enough... ie enough weld on it that you cannot remove it again. Any attempts to make temporary fixes are finable now apparently where-as before if you just put a cannon silencer on they tell you to take it off and fix the rest.

[dsp26]

what on earth is THAT?

you get busted?

yeah got busted and received notification in the mail... i wasn't busted by the Police... apparently the reason i have to go through the inspection is if at least 3 seperate complaints on seperate occasions were made or if you were reported directly by a council/government worker.

If you do get the notice you are entitled to call up the DECC to get the details of the person(s) who complained but apparently 90% of the time they do not have to leave said details which is obvious making it pointless for me to bother.



Man i didn't even know when all this came in... didn't even know the EPA was made obsolete by the DECC

[tinkerbell]

ahhh, OK.

that is a bad situation... but you were still under teh Db reading, at 89, so mustna been 'too loud'?

[dsp26]

ahhh, OK.

that is a bad situation... but you were still under teh Db reading, at 89, so mustna been 'too loud'?

yeah twas an outdoor test coz the shop was full.. i hope they don't do an indoor test next :/ coz if i don't pass it'll mean i wasted $$$ and my exhaust system and will have to get catback piping down to 2inch to be safe...

I've always said exhaust systems are one of those things you don't want to have to spend on twice so get a 2.5in mandrel system for future mods.... this situation really puts a damper on that mentality....

on a plus note, my exhaust was so free-flowing before and getting 300Km per ~40L that now with the backpressured oem muffler i'm pulling ~450Km on ~40l... i don't get it but i guess it's a plus of sorts.

[Gio]

fk man that gey! So no cai no sri no exhaust unless with stock muffler = no fun.

[Dy_]

basically anything other than stock they can try and get you for

[tinkerbell]

yeah twas an outdoor test coz the shop was full.. i hope they don't do an indoor test next

they cant do it indoors.

http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/Reports/NatStatExhaustNoiseTestSept2006.pdf

[power_of_dreams]

http://www.f5air.com/images/complete_parts/ca1007.JPG

is this classified as enclosed/boxed? I mean you can't really box it off can you?

[GGK20A]

an enclosed box is more like this:
http://www.advan.net.au/page11/page18/files/page18-1028-full.jpg

http://www.advan.net.au/page11/page18/files/page18-1019-full.jpg

taken from http://www.advan.net.au

[SaBReT00tH]

regarding the mufflers/sports exhausts: that's why my installer chose to install mine in the stealth format with a resonator. Got a nice loud BMW twin chrome sports exhaust pointing up a slight angle, with resonator welded underneath. Still get a discrete sports sound but only just over the legal decibel level at idle. If you're doing shit like illegal HID retrofitting and an inch or two with illegally large wheels, and maybe BARELY legal ground clearance with your car lowered half an inch with bodykit, I think a Canon exhaust without resonator is not a wise option for stealth survival. Similarly I think people with 8000k HID are ****in stupid, especially if the HID is retrofitted with illegal projectors and especially if they've just spent $600 + on it. 8000k are clearly illegal with their blue colour and even 6000k has a pretty blue tinge to it, above the standard 4300k (I think) on stock luxury cars.

[power_of_dreams]

an enclosed box is more like this:

hmmm, so even if the pod is deep down next to the foggie still have to box it up as much as possible? that sucks!

[tinkerbell]

it has more to do with noise than anything else.

however - even if it IS boxed, it is still a defect unless you have it certified by an engineer that it pases noise and emmissions ADR's...

[Gio]

so one of the cheaper mods turns into a whole lot more expansive mod?

[dsp26]

hmmm, so even if the pod is deep down next to the foggie still have to box it up as much as possible? that sucks!

yep as tinkerbell said... it's generally fine... BUT... need engineers.

oh btw i failed on my cat too... despite it being bigger than the stock obs1 cat.

you either have to get yours 'valuntary emissions tested' and passed by the rta with a full report or change back to stock... f0ckers.

[tinkerbell]

oh btw i failed on my cat too...


why? did you fail the emmissions test?

can you scan it in and post up the results?

[Bayani]

dsp - can you do a write up in the NSW General Modifications Guidelines Thread about all this?

[dsp26]

Tinkerbell - No didn't go through with the 'Voluntary Emissions Test' as the earliest I could book is Jan 9th 08 and today is my deadline for passing (Before getting a defect notice and final test.. then impound). They state that ANY aftermarket cat must be proven road legal via RTA emissions test only.

Bayani - Yes I will... I will even post their checklist on the form.... BUT not in that thread... the DECC covers all of Australia and is not limited to NSW only.... so can someone tell me when these f0ckers came in to place?!?!?



I don't know about you guys or if anyone has to go through this right now or soon... this whole ordeal made me really want a V8... seriously don't know why we bother with modified 4-bangers.... and this all started with exhaust being too loud.

[tinkerbell]

the DECC covers all of Australia and is not limited to NSW only.... so can someone tell me when these f0ckers came in to place?!?!?

nah mate, DEC is NSW only...


Department of Environment and Climate Change
The Department of Environment and Climate Change is a new agency formed on 27 April 2007. With the change, the former Department of Environment and Conservation is taking on new and renamed programs to build a broader organisation able to respond to the unprecedented challenge presented by climate change. The new department brings together a range of conservation and natural resources science and programs, including native vegetation, biodiversity and environmental water recovery to provide an integrated approach to natural resource management.

Broadly, the Department of Environment and Climate Change:

works towards a healthy environment cared for and enjoyed by the whole NSW community
manages the state's natural resources, including biodiversity, soils and natural vegetation
manages natural and cultural heritage across the state's land and waters
acts to minimise the impacts of climate change
promotes sustainable consumption, resource use and waste management
regulates activities to protect the environment
conducts biodiversity, plant, environmental and cultural heritage research to improve decision making.


http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/index.htm

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/about/structure.htm

[dsp26]

^^fair enough... didn't mention NSW next to their name on the envelope :p

oh well heading off now for my final test... will let you know how it goes and update the other thread with the official checklist of items.... I feel sorry for a lot of you.....

[tinkerbell]

I don't know about you guys or if anyone has to go through this right now or soon...

i got an engineer to help me through my B16A into a 1983 Prelude project,

so i did it the easy way, he tested for noise,

and i went to UltraTune for the emmissions test... passed easily due to stock ECU and stock cat...

i am GOING to get my DC2 tested once i install the new 200 cell cat...

[tinkerbell]

will let you know how it goes and update the other thread with the official checklist of items....

AFAIK - these are the basic checklists:

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/bulletin/vsb_ncop.aspx

is yours something different?

[dsp26]

i got an engineer to help me through my B16A into a 1983 Prelude project,

so i did it the easy way, he tested for noise,

and i went to UltraTune for the emmissions test... passed easily due to stock ECU and stock cat...

i am GOING to get my DC2 tested once i install the new 200 cell cat...

was that all before the DECC came in?


Also i updated this thread with the checklist:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59568&page=5

[tinkerbell]

was that all before the DECC came in?


the DECC is the old EPA,

same legislation, different name.

however, it WAS before the NCOP came in, which i think makes it easier than the old system...

[SaBReT00tH]

do you reckon cops would do you for noise if you had a sports exhaust (twin) with resonator, (just over legal decibel level) and added a CAI?

[dsp26]

do you reckon cops would do you for noise if you had a sports exhaust (twin) with resonator, (just over legal decibel level) and added a CAI?

yes..

[SaBReT00tH]

but it'd be a lot less noise compared to if a resonator wasn't on right? Or does the resonator become useless when a CAI is installed?

Can cops identify a CAI easily (is this part of their training?) if one was ever asked to open their bonet? And would it eventually be easy to return it back to stock and remove the CAI is one was ever defected?

[dsp26]

but it'd be a lot less noise compared to if a resonator wasn't on right? Or does the resonator become useless when a CAI is installed?

Can cops identify a CAI easily (is this part of their training?) if one was ever asked to open their bonet? And would it eventually be easy to return it back to stock and remove the CAI is one was ever defected?

Okay I will explain this now.. a resonator DOES NOT remove any dB or quiten your exhaust in anyway... it's purpose is to change resonance therefore exhaust note going deeper hence it's name sake. hot dogs are the most useless pieces of shit although they are mandatory on a B-series methinks to get rid of the lawnmower sound... EG/DC did come with factory resonators... had a compeltely stock system at one stage except catback with no reso... sounded horrible.

The only 2 things that will quieten your exhaust (and backpressure) are:
- Mid Muffler
- Spiral flow resonators

Do not be disillusioned by the note change into thinking it quitens your exhaust... depending on quality 2dB MAX


Cops are trained to GENERALLY identify induction parts including EGR/breather stuff... it's the reason i ended up selling my cai despite painting it black... the only way to hide it is to modify your airbox so the pipe goes through it... makes it look like a stocko system.

and as for quite exhausts... man for the majority of you that have never been noise tested... i'll tell you this, i have never realised how quiet 90dB is... a completely stock engine with full factory resonated induction system still sounds louder at 5700rpm than the 97dB i originally clocked.

I love modding guys but with the additional strictness starting this year.. i'm over putting pissy mods like cai/wai/exhaust... want power, get a different car or do internal work.


***EDIT***
oh btw, cops do take pics now too and send to the authorities (DECC/RTA)

whats the point of putting it back on and getting caught the second time... that'd be fun i'm sure.. i'm aware from every club/forum i'm on that Adelaide/NT/WA ain't as strict as anywhere else... but it seems your moving to NSW... fun owning a car here...

[philBo]

^^ maybe he was referring to the resonator that sits behind your front bar?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/ek9/EK9/Airbox%20resonator%20removal/resonator4.jpg

[dsp26]

^^ maybe he was referring to the resonator that sits behind your front bar?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/ek9/EK9/Airbox%20resonator%20removal/resonator4.jpg

if thats the case then yeah it's noiseless you won't even hear or feel vtec kick in.... and my vtec is definitely noticable only coz i had the crossover switched to 5200rpm.

the full oem stock parts suck on performance!!

not sure if any of you had your car completely stock when you got it but the engine is the loudest thing on the car on load or not

[SaBReT00tH]

DSP ---> is NSW as strict as ACT? As I'm moving to ACT. What are the additional laws of this year that you're talking about?

Also, I've seen the Injen black painted CAIs, maybe these would be wiser?

[tinkerbell]

there are no additional laws.

[tinkerbell]

the DEC look after:

Protection of the Environment Operations (Clean Air) Regulation 2002


Division 4 Use and maintenance of motor vehicles

14 Maintenance of vehicles: section 159 and clause 16

For the purposes of section 159 of the Act and clause 16, a motor vehicle to which clause 11 applies must be maintained so that the exhaust pipe of the vehicle is free of holes (other than holes necessary for the effective operation of the exhaust system).


15 Use of motor vehicle without prescribed anti-pollution device prohibited

(1) An owner of a motor vehicle who uses the motor vehicle, or causes or allows it to be used, is guilty of an offence if:
(a) this Regulation requires motor vehicles of the class to which it belongs to be fitted with a prescribed anti-pollution device, and
(b) the vehicle is not fitted in the prescribed manner with such a device.

Maximum penalty: 400 penalty units in the case of a corporation, or 200 penalty units in the case of an individual.


(2) It is a defence to a prosecution for an offence under this clause if the defendant proves that, at the time the offence was committed:
(a) the defendant had reasonable grounds to believe, and did believe, that the motor vehicle was fitted with every prescribed anti-pollution device required by this Regulation to be fitted to the motor vehicle, and
(b) the defendant took all reasonable steps to ensure that every such device was fitted in the prescribed manner.
(3) It is a defence to a prosecution for an offence under this clause if the defendant proves that the motor vehicle:
(a) was constructed or has been modified solely for use in motor racing or off-road motor sport, and
(b) was not registrable under the Road Transport (Vehicle Registration) Act 1997.
(4) In this clause, prescribed anti-pollution device has the same meaning as in section 154 of the Act.


16 Maintenance, service and adjustment of motor vehicles

(1) An owner of a motor vehicle who uses the motor vehicle, or causes or allows it to be used, is guilty of an offence if:
(a) this Regulation requires motor vehicles of the class to which it belongs to be serviced, maintained, or adjusted in a specified manner, and
(b) the vehicle has not been serviced, maintained or adjusted in that manner.

Maximum penalty: 400 penalty units in the case of a corporation, or 200 penalty units in the case of an individual.


(2) It is a defence to a prosecution for an offence under this clause if the defendant proves that the defendant took all reasonable steps to ensure that the motor vehicle was serviced, maintained or adjusted as required by this Regulation.


17 Removal or adjustment of anti-pollution devices

(1) The owner of a motor vehicle who uses the motor vehicle, or causes or allows it to be used, is guilty of an offence if:
(a) an anti-pollution device had been fitted to the motor vehicle, and
(b) at the time of that use the device had been:
(i) removed, disconnected or impaired, or
(ii) adjusted or modified and the adjustment or modification results in the emission of excessive air impurities by the motor vehicle.

Maximum penalty: 400 penalty units in the case of a corporation, or 200 penalty units in the case of an individual.


(2) It is a defence to a prosecution for an offence under this clause if the defendant proves:
(a) that the removal, disconnection, impairment, adjustment or modification was done:
(i) in order to service, repair or replace the anti-pollution device or to improve its efficiency with respect to minimising air pollution, or
(ii) in order to facilitate the use of a motor vehicle for motor racing or off-road motor sport (being a motor vehicle that immediately before that removal or other action was not registrable under the Road Transport (Vehicle Registration) Act 1997) and that the vehicle is to be used in that condition only in the competition itself, or
(b) that, at the time the offence was committed:
(i) the defendant had reasonable grounds to believe, and did believe, that any anti-pollution device that had been fitted to the motor vehicle continued to be fitted to the motor vehicle, and
(ii) the defendant took all reasonable steps to ensure that the device was properly maintained.
(3) For the purposes of this clause, a motor vehicle emits excessive air impurities if it emits air impurities in the circumstances described in section 154 (2) of the Act.
(4) In this clause, anti-pollution device means a prescribed anti-pollution device within the meaning of section 154 of the Act or any other device that is designed to minimise air pollution.

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/viewtop/inforce/subordleg+642+2002+first+0+N

[tinkerbell]

and looks after the:

Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Control) Regulation 2000


Subdivision 1 Motor vehicles

13 Use of motor vehicles on road

(1) A person must not cause or permit a motor vehicle to be used on a road if the motor vehicle is capable of emitting noise at a level in excess of the maximum noise level specified in Schedule 1 for that kind of motor vehicle.

Maximum penalty:

(a) if the vehicle is capable of emitting noise at a level that exceeds the maximum noise level specified in Schedule 1 for that kind of motor vehicle but does not exceed that maximum noise level by 5 dB(A)—100 penalty units in the case of a corporation, 50 penalty units in the case of an individual, or
(b) if the vehicle is capable of emitting noise at a level that exceeds the maximum noise level specified in Schedule 1 for that kind of motor vehicle by 5 dB(A) but does not exceed that maximum noise level by 15 dB(A)—150 penalty units in the case of a corporation, 75 penalty units in the case of an individual, or
(c) if the vehicle is capable of emitting noise at a level that exceeds the maximum noise level specified in Schedule 1 for that kind of motor vehicle by 15 dB(A) or more—300 penalty units in the case of a corporation, 150 penalty units in the case of an individual.


(2) A person is not guilty of an offence under this clause arising because the motor vehicle is being taken directly to:
(a) a place where repairs or other work required to reduce the noise level of the vehicle are to be carried out, or
(b) a place where an authorised officer may inspect or test the vehicle, or
(c) a place approved by the EPA for the purposes of section 207 (2) (c) of the Act where a person approved by the EPA for the purposes of that section may inspect or test the vehicle,
or is being taken directly from any such place to the place where the vehicle is usually kept.
(3) A person is not guilty of an offence under this clause in relation to the use of a special purpose motor vehicle.
14 Use of motor vehicles in places other than roads

A person must not cause a motor vehicle to be used in a place (other than on a road) in such a manner that it emits offensive noise.

Maximum penalty: 100 penalty units in the case of a corporation, 50 penalty units in the case of an individual.


15 Use of motor vehicles on residential premises

(1) A person must not cause or permit a motor vehicle to be used on residential premises in such a manner that it emits noise that can be heard within a habitable room in any other residential premises (regardless of whether any door or window to that room is open):
(a) before 8 am or after 8 pm on any Saturday, Sunday or public holiday, or
(b) before 7 am or after 8 pm on any other day.

Maximum penalty: 100 penalty units in the case of a corporation, 50 penalty units in the case of an individual.


(2) A person is not guilty of an offence under this clause unless:
(a) the person has, within 7 days after causing or permitting a motor vehicle to be used in such a manner, been warned by any other person not to cause or permit the motor vehicle to be used in that manner, and
(b) the person causes or permits the motor vehicle to be used in that manner within 28 days after the warning has been given.
(3) A person is not guilty of an offence under this clause merely because noise is emitted from the motor vehicle while the motor vehicle is entering or leaving residential premises.
16 Use of refrigeration units fitted to motor vehicles

(1) A person must not cause or permit a refrigeration unit fitted to a motor vehicle to be used in such a manner that it emits noise that can be heard within a habitable room in any residential premises (regardless of whether any door or window to that room is open):
(a) before 8 am or after 8 pm on any Saturday, Sunday or public holiday, or
(b) before 7 am or after 8 pm on any other day.

Maximum penalty: 100 penalty units in the case of a corporation, 50 penalty units in the case of an individual.


(2) A person is not guilty of an offence under this clause unless:
(a) the person has, within 7 days after causing or permitting a refrigeration unit to be used in such a manner, been warned by any other person not to cause or permit the refrigeration unit to be used in that manner, and
(b) the person causes or permits the refrigeration unit to be used in that manner within 28 days after the warning has been given.

17 Use of motor vehicle sound systems

A person must not cause the sound system of a motor vehicle to be used in such a manner that it emits offensive noise.

Maximum penalty: 100 penalty units in the case of a corporation, 50 penalty units in the case of an individual.


17A Drive or use motor vehicle on road and road related area if vehicle’s sound system emits offensive noise

(1) A driver of a motor vehicle with a sound system must not drive or use the motor vehicle on a road or road related area if the sound system emits offensive noise.

Maximum penalty: 50 penalty units.


(2) If an act or omission constitutes an offence under this clause and clause 17, the offender is not liable to be punished twice in respect of the offence.
(3) In subclause (1), drive, driver and use have the same meanings as in the Road Transport (General) Act 1999.

18 Noise control equipment to be properly maintained

(1) A person must not cause or permit a motor vehicle to be used on a road or road related area if the motor vehicle’s noise control equipment:
(a) is not securely in place, or
(b) is defective.

Maximum penalty: 100 penalty units in the case of a corporation, 50 penalty units in the case of an individual.


(2) A person must not:
(a) remove, or render less effective, a motor vehicle’s noise control equipment, otherwise than for the purpose of repairing or replacing it, or
(b) replace a motor vehicle’s noise control equipment with noise control equipment that is less effective than the original noise control equipment fitted by the vehicle manufacturer.

Maximum penalty: 100 penalty units in the case of a corporation, 50 penalty units in the case of an individual.


(3) For the purposes of subclause (1) (b), defective noise control equipment includes:
(a) equipment that allows the emission of more noise than the original noise control equipment fitted by the vehicle manufacturer, or
(b) equipment that has, in the opinion of an authorised officer, been modified in a way that makes it less effective than it would have been if not for the modification, or
(c) equipment that allows gas to escape from a place other than the intended exhaust outlet, or
(d) if the equipment concerned comprises a system of mufflers—the system contains fewer mufflers than the original system fitted by the vehicle manufacturer.
19 (Repealed)

20 Repairs and modifications

A person must not cause or permit a motor vehicle’s engine, or its air intake or exhaust system, to be modified or repaired in such a manner that the maximum noise level of the motor vehicle after the repair or modification (regardless of the noise level of the motor vehicle before the repair or modification) exceeds the maximum noise level specified in Schedule 1 for that kind of motor vehicle.

Maximum penalty: 100 penalty units in the case of a corporation, 50 penalty units in the case of an individual.


20A Owners and drivers of motor vehicles involved in excess noise offences

(1) If a motor vehicle or the sound system of a motor vehicle is used contrary to clause 14 or 17, the driver and owner of the motor vehicle are each taken to be guilty of an offence under that provision.
(2) Subclause (1) does not affect the liability of the actual offender but, if a penalty has been imposed or recovered from any person in relation to the offence (whether the actual offender, the driver or the owner), no further penalty may be imposed on or recovered from any other person. In this subclause, penalty includes a penalty under a penalty notice.
(3) Subclause (1) does not apply to the owner of a motor vehicle if the motor vehicle was at the time of the commission of the offence a stolen motor vehicle or a motor vehicle illegally taken or used.
(4) Subclause (1) does not apply to the owner of a motor vehicle if the owner was not in the motor vehicle at the relevant time and:
(a) gives notice in accordance with subclause (5) of the name and address of the person who was in charge of the motor vehicle at the relevant time, or
(b) satisfies the officer who gave the penalty notice for the offence or the court dealing with the offence (as the case requires) that the owner did not know, and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained, that name and address.
(5) The notice must be verified by statutory declaration and:
(a) if a penalty notice has been given for the offence—the notice must be given to an officer specified in the penalty notice for the purpose within 28 days after service of the penalty notice, and
(b) if a court is dealing with the offence—the notice must be given to the informant within 28 days after service of the summons for the offence.
(6) A person who gives a statement for the purposes of subclause (4) knowing that it is false is guilty of an offence.

Maximum penalty: 10 penalty units.


(7) This clause does not apply to or in respect of an act or omission that occurred before the commencement of this clause.

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/viewtop/inforce/subordleg+537+2000+first+0+N

[SaBReT00tH]

does the Injen CAI only fit Manual Civics or can it be installed for Automatics too?

[minix33]

it can be installed in both manual and auto.

back on topic; no it is not legal if you are a p plater because it still counts as a performance enhancing mod.

[SaBReT00tH]

in that case lets talk how to stealth your CAI. First step that I'm guessing is by ordering one of the black painted ones instead of the shiny chrome, so that it blends in a little more to the existing parts of the car.

[EUR003act]

DSP ---> is NSW as strict as ACT? As I'm moving to ACT. What are the additional laws of this year that you're talking about?

Also, I've seen the Injen black painted CAIs, maybe these would be wiser?

ACT is pretty leanient on cars... because we dont have as many problems as sydney do (street racing/burnouts/idiots), the cops have more important things to worry about...

the main difference here is, in NSW a cop is a cop, he does the same job as every other smuck on the beat, whereas here, we have dedicated traffic cops, so in sydney, you may be lucky to get a bobby that knows nothing about cars, and misses alot of your mods... in canberra tho, the majority of the traffic cops love automobiles, so they can tell the difference between a stock intake system, and a modded one. most of them can even tell if a car has CAI by listening to it (without popping the bonnet)..

but as i said at the start, the cops are fairly good hear, just be polite if you ever get pulled over, cops always do the attitude test, if you pass, you might just get a slap on the wrist, if you fail, more than likely youll be walking home with a pocket full of fines....

[SaBReT00tH]

so the Injen CAI fits auto too? On some sites I've seen it says 'For Manual' and there was no auto mention on there.

?

[minix33]

There are some that are just for manual and some just for auto. the models that don't specify should work on both.

[SaBReT00tH]

can someone give me more info on what this water hazard is with CAI??? I heard if it goes over puddles the water goes in and screws the entire engine and electronics? Surely this isn't right or else they wouldn't be selling CAIs?? Sounds ridiculous.

[tinkerbell]

yes, it sounds ridiculous, but yes, people ARE stupid enough to drive through water with an engine air intake 15cm off the ground...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock

[EUR003act]

can someone give me more info on what this water hazard is with CAI??? I heard if it goes over puddles the water goes in and screws the entire engine and electronics? Surely this isn't right or else they wouldn't be selling CAIs?? Sounds ridiculous.

just dont go driving thru puddles or sticking garden houses up your intake.... ive never had any trouble with water ingest.. besides, if you get k&n system, they come with a "water shield" supposed to help keep water out... i tested mine by covering a piece of cardboard and spraying lightly with a hose... it actually stayed dry underneath! :D

[SaBReT00tH]

what about the Injen ones, do they come with a water scooper?

Also, what about if the roads are flooded? I've read driving through may create a wave which can infiltrate the CAI too.

[EUR003act]

what about the Injen ones, do they come with a water scooper?

Also, what about if the roads are flooded? I've read driving through may create a wave which can infiltrate the CAI too.

i wouldnt recommend driving on any flooded road... a lil bit of spray up into the engine bay is fine.. the water will just be spread evenly through the cylinders, wouldnt be enough to cause hydrolock... however, a wave of water going over the mouth of the pod, that would be very bad! just dont drive thru deep puddles, simple :D

[dsp26]

Get a generic or AEM "Bypass filter".. its like a pod midpipe that you pt in the engine bay

it's restricted on purpose so your intake would come from the actual pod... air would really only go through the bypass if the entire pod was submerged.....

http://i1.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/c8/02/a84d_1.JPG
http://72.32.25.195/ebay/20401s.jpg
http://ebay.carpartswholesale.com/images/products_ebay_cpw/233888503.JPG

[teh_mechanic]

i dont know why people get so up in arms about 'oh but the cold air intake can cause hydrolock".just keep away from flooded roads etc....seriously when do you go through water over 15 cms deep,leave it to the 4wds,CAI ftw

[dsp26]

^^^the road floods? and um.. duno bout the weather up there but its been flash flooding here... an otherwise familiar road could screw things... had it happen to a mate ages ago.. luckily car stalled before it took in water... removed all the plugs and it was sweet.

[Crapdaz]

Hey guys,

Just wondering what the maximum dB is for an exhaust?

Regards, Daz

[tinkerbell]

90dB for a 03/04 car

more info here:

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59568

[Crapdaz]

thanks, tinker

damn 90dB is stingy...... ='(

[Crapdaz]

So another question whether your intake is illegal or not?

If you were running a DRY SRI intake in your engine bay which is not enclosed, that would be condemned illegal in NSW? am i correct?

Thanks,

[kazam]

disregard....


refer 2 tinkerbellz posts.

[Crapdaz]

yeh hah =) but i have a problem the rampod is so high up i can't enclose it properly. It actually touches the soft spongy material just underneath the bonnet lid. Otherwise i will need to replace the rubber mount to a slightly shallow one which is mounted on the battery mount.

Need to see if i can find a narrow pod replacement.

Any guys have any suggestions?

[tinkerbell]

yes u r correct. well yeh if the pod isn't enclosed it is a defect..


NO it is a defect due to not being in compliance with emissions laws.

[kazam]

ummmmmm as far as i am aware an exposed pod is the only available defect...

[tinkerbell]

is it possible you are wrong?

or just simply dont know/comprehend the applicable legislation?

i.e. the stuff i posted above?

[Limbo]

I believe its sound compliance not so much emmissions for the defecting.

[tinkerbell]

it is emissions AND noise.

[kazam]

alrighty then...

[EUR003act]

it is emissions AND noise.

its only defectable if the car exceeds emissions and noise after fitting the pod filter...

Quote:
Under clause 20 of
the Regulation, it is an offence
to modify an engine’s air intake
when it results in an engine
noise level exceeding the
maximum level specified in
the Regulation.

source: http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/vehicle_noise.pdf

[tinkerbell]

well, it is also illegal to make modifications to you car that are in breach of Australian Design Rules - ADR's...

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/adr_online.aspx

which cover both noise and emissions.

[tinkerbell]

NSW RTA: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_06_-_guidelines_for_light_vehicle_modifications_nov_20 07.pdf

VicRoads:
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/CC48FC10-4D57-4F04-82E1-3BD72EF88340/0/VSI8.pdf

[EUR003act]

well, it is also illegal to make modifications to you car that are in breach of Australian Design Rules - ADR's...

thats what i said... its illegal if it doesnt meet the requirements after fitting the pod...

but ive never seen a car breach emissions because of a pod... a hi flow cat is more likely to do that...

[tinkerbell]

sorry, i was confused by your quote of EPA regs which only referred to noise,

FWIW - i got an engineers certificate for my B16A Prelude, it had a exposed K&N pod and was fully tested, and certified compliant with ADR's by an RTA approved engineering signatory*.

http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell/engine.bay.top.01.jpg


* DISCLAIMER - just because my car was certified like this, doesnt mean it is fine for everyone to drive around with uncertified pods...

[Limbo]

hey tink who did your engineering?

[tinkerbell]

he may be retired, but he is still listed - Bruce Elson

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_15_-_engineering_signatories_nov_2007.pdf

[tinkerbell]

cost around $550 to certify everything, including driver seat, dash, engine swap, exhaust dB, emissions, battery relocation, fuel system, wheels and tyres, brakes, suspension...