solution to frequent short trips

[petsfact]

Hi all,
anyone has a solution for this?

I now work in CBD so i can only drive short distance to train station everyday. I used to travel on M1 everyday and the engine get total work out, but now it's very obvious that 5 mins trip to train station is not enough, the engine feels dry and rough all the time, it seems like the engine oil never get heat up.

I have to make myself drive on M1 at least once a week to get that freshness feeling back on the engine. Just wondering if anyone know a solution for this? something like changing to a different brand of oil or things like that?

[xntrik]

How is this accord specific but..

dude its because the car is cold,
why not try warming it up BEFORE you drive that 5 minutes.

[tony1234]

Hi all,
anyone has a solution for this?

I now work in CBD so i can only drive short distance to train station everyday. I used to travel on M1 everyday and the engine get total work out, but now it's very obvious that 5 mins trip to train station is not enough, the engine feels dry and rough all the time, it seems like the engine oil never get heat up.

I have to make myself drive on M1 at least once a week to get that freshness feeling back on the engine. Just wondering if anyone know a solution for this? something like changing to a different brand of oil or things like that?
Make sure you change your oil(use a full synthetic5W30 or 5W40 like Castrol Edge,Elf,Motul) and filter every 3 mths.or 5000kms and like you said take it for a spin on the freeway once a week.Not much else you can do.:(

[beeza]

I was driving just 1 minute to work for 2 years.I had to go for a decent drive once a week I felt.

[JohnL]

There is no magic bullet to this. Find a nice bit if road and give it a workout once a week. It's good for the engine and good for you, so long as you're sensible about it (don't crash, don't get arrested!). Every 5000k change the oil using a 30W quality oil (if that's what the handbook recommends, and I bet it is), though you don't need super expensive, good quality mineral oil will be fine if changed frequently as above.

The sort of driving you describe is about the worst possible driving conditions for your oil. It needs to be changed regularly and without fail under these conditions if you want your engine to be a long term proposition. The damage that bad oil causes is insidious, you can't see it or feel it happening, but it is happening and will bite you in the end with engine problems and a pre-mature boat anchor.

If the car starts to run rough during your commuting week it might not be the oil, it might be fouling spark plugs. A good thrash helps this too, though if the problem is chronic you might consider using a hotter spark plug (stays cleaner than a colder plug), but not hotter than the hottest one recommended by Honda for your engine. If you try a hotter plug, keep an ear out for pre-ignition ('rattling' or 'pinging'), especially under load on hot days with air-con etc. If you get pre-ignition you may need to change back to a colder plug.

[94dc2tegz]

was reading the repco manual to keeping ur car in good condition today and I happened to come across this issue, they recommend that you (while driving) rev ur engine near the red line once every few weeks for anytime less than 5 seconds and that would be the same effect as driving on a highway for more than an hour.

[JohnL]

was reading the repco manual to keeping ur car in good condition today and I happened to come across this issue, they recommend that you (while driving) rev ur engine near the red line once every few weeks for anytime less than 5 seconds and that would be the same effect as driving on a highway for more than an hour.

Perhaps, but be aware that what this is doing is mostly cleaning off your plugs, not much else. If you do it regularly it may help keep the rings a bit cleaner (burn gummy deposits off), but the occasional 5 seconds is unlikely to do all that much.

Make sure you don't do this with no load on the engine. No load high revs are bad news as it can blow the motor big time. Your Honda motor is so good it would probably shrug it off, but it's just bad policy and you can be unlucky. More racing engines grenade after the driver lifts to change gear than when the pedal is to the floor.

Hondas are built to rev, they thrive on it! What they don't like is lax maintenance. Don't be afraid to give it a good full bore rev in the gears (problem might be finding enough road), but rev it hard through 1st and 2nd, then third till you hit the legal speed (find an expressway), or whatever speed you feel able to pay the fine for!

I still think a regular good thrashing is the way to go, and it might be good for your car too!

[petsfact]

funny thing for my car, it does drive smooth and more responsive after a 3rd gear red line merging into freeway traffic.

my car actually drive extremely smooth on hot humid day, and/or after a freeway trip. it's only rough if i drive short distance all the time.

what i don't quite understand is why 30 weight not 40? since everyone is putting in 5w-40 or 10w-40 in their euro?

[JohnL]

funny thing for my car, it does drive smooth and more responsive after a 3rd gear red line merging into freeway traffic.

I'd lay money this is because the plugs have cleaned up. New plugs can make a difference to driveability, but not for long if your driving conditions promote fouling up. The sort of driving you do may be hard on plugs as well as oil, especially if the plugs are on the cold side of what's acceptable.


my car actually drive extremely smooth on hot humid day, and/or after a freeway trip. it's only rough if i drive short distance all the time.

Does sound like it might want one grade hotter in the plug. What's it like on a cool and pleasant night? Mine is noticably nicer, sharper and more powerful in these conditions than on a hot and horrid day. I use the coldest Honda recommended plug in my car, but I drive mostly country miles and I use the revs.


what i don't quite understand is why 30 weight not 40? since everyone is putting in 5w-40 or 10w-40 in their euro?

What does Honda recommend for the Euro? Look in the handbook, they probably have a graph detailing recommended oil viscosity for differnt ambient temp conditions. Use what Honda recommends for your temp conditions.

30W is thinner and creates less 'pumping losses', i.e less energy is sapped from the engine just to pump the oil around, and also it has less 'drag' on moving components, freeing up a little more power. 40W is thicker and creates more pumping and drag losses, a little less power available at the wheels. This has implications for economy too, thinner oil promoting better economy.

40W is a bit thicker than 30W, so tends to provide slightly better piston ring seal, which creates a bit more power in the first place. If your rings are in very good condition then this additional sealing is academic because the seal with the 30W will be extremely close to what you would achieve with a 40W. Only if your motor is a bit down on compression should you use a thicker oil, or, if your engine burns oil, or, if you have very worn bearings in the motor. Never use oil additives, not even if the brochure is very convincing!!!

Engines built to very close tolerances like Hondas tend to like thinner oils, that is until they've done a very big mileage and get loose. I use a 30W in my CB7 engine which is nearly at 250,000km and uses no oil other than a very slight loss from a very minor oil leak, it performs very smoothly with good power, I give it a regular near red line burst, and generally drive it reasonably hard. It never complains.

As a general rule, the wider apart the W ratings on the oil are, the more additives the oil is likely to have. E.g. a 5W40 is likely to have more additives than a 10W30. This doesn't mean one oil is necessarily better than the other, when new, but additives degrade over time and the more additives there are the more likely the oil will degrade faster and need to be changed sooner (at least this is what I've read, or my recollection of what I've read).

The reason for the lower W on the rating (i.e. the 5 or 10) is that this means the oil is thinner at low temperatures than a higher low W rating, meaning the oil will flow more quickly on start up, giving better protection at start up when much if not most engine wear occurs. However, a very low rating such as 5 will make almost no difference to flow compared to a 10 unless the ambient temperatures are typically very low, near freezing or below.

[EG30]

fuel dilution is always a problem with freq short trips. Affects some cars worse than others though ie old school European cars dumps a lot of fuel on the cold start cycle to make car run rich; more than say a jap car of the same era in general.

As it's not practical for you to drive your any differently for your trip from your house to the train station in the morning, you can do the following the mediate the situation:


change oil more frquently, esp during winter mths.

1) use the heavier weight quality oil, in general thicker oils of a similar quality has more capbility to minimise the impact of fuel dilution eg. 10w40

2) use a diesel oil, they are made to combat soot in diesel engines and has additives to handle contaminants a lot better than a non diesel engine oil of a similar quality. There are plenty of high performance diesel oils on the market these days.

3) go for a long drive and put the engine under some load. No I don't mean revving out the engine to the redline esp a lot of fuel will be dumped into the cylinder at the top end. try to find a long hill somewhere and load the car up on a high gear and get some heat into the oil thus burning off fuel in the oil. In hot summer 40C days just normal daily traffic driving with A/C on the oil gets to 100-110C pretty easily anyway, in winter months is a diff matter.

4) at the end of 5000km oil change cycle, get your oil analysed by a lab and see if the fuel dilution level is within acceptable levels. If you find out it's within limits after 5000km in winter with the oil of your choice then it's obvs fine and thus no need to go for a different oil for the purpose of this topic.

I had an old E30 323i bmw in the early 90s with an modifed ECU which made it go a lot better but at the same time made it run so rich even post warm up I had 3% raw fuel in the sump after 5000kms! The only oil that would survive 5000km of service life without premature thinning out and start burning was the Castrol formula R 10W60 ester based oil, which you can still buy today as the Castrol Edge 10W60.

[one4spl]

Ride a bike?

Buy a shit-box?

[ok2]

Driving short distances "all" the time will prematurely wear out engine and transmission. Also catalytic converter and exhaust will rust out due to water condensate and never getting hot enough.

5 minutes ? how about walking (assuming it's feasible e.g. weather, won't get mugged).

[beeza]

I tried walking.Good for a couple of weeks but then it felt like I wasn't using my car.I spend all this money on it and never drive it.Oh and I'm lazy :)

[petsfact]

its like 5 minutes drive on 3 lane 80km/h road, so i am assuming i have to get up and start walking by 6am so i can catch the 7:30 train!!!!! :D

[ok2]

Hmm, was assuming 5 minutes in suburban type traffic :o. 5 minutes at 80 km/h means 6 or 7 km so yes just a "little" too far to walk each way every day.

Maybe add a few extra kms to the trip by taking a more round-a-bout route (and no, I don't mean going round and round a roundabout :p), it's what I do when I have a short trip (and time permits). Again circumstances may not allow you to do this.

P.S. Too far is not distance but time related, adding 2 hours plus per day to the commute is too much IMHO.

[kazam]

I was driving just 1 minute to work for 2 years.I had to go for a decent drive once a week I felt.

if your work is just 1 minute away, u shouldnt be driving at all.:wave:

[beeza]

if your work is just 1 minute away, u shouldnt be driving at all.:wave:

You would think so but I tried this and it felt like I wasn't using my car.I spend all this $$$ on it and I'm not using it.Oh and by the time I get to work I'm all sweaty (gold coast) and I gotta wear them chatty clothes all day :thumbdwn:

[Kazaf]

How is this accord specific but..

dude its because the car is cold,
why not try warming it up BEFORE you drive that 5 minutes.

Warming your car up BEFORE you drive does not make it any better, in fact it makes it sound very unpleasant for the engine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v252/Kazaf/idlearticle.jpg

[beeza]

Great read Kazaf!
I gotta change my idling habit :)

[petsfact]

just like today..... 25c when i got off the train, the car just drive smooth from the moment it started. the car is stopped for 1 whole day from morning 7:30 till just now.

i think it's really the weather temperature that make the engine feel rough, when its cold, and smooth when its hot and humid.

[beeza]

That's no good.Have you had a tune up within the last 5000km?