Energy Suspension Engine mount inserts

[beeza]

I think they don't....but,do Energy Suspension do upper engine mounts for an 96 EK1 Civic?
Has anyone tried to use the 2 lower or rear inserts on the upper 2 mounts? Will this work?

[Benson]

Wont work... need to get billet mounts

[dsp26]

no because the inserts have to be a very precise fit which is pretty much the only thing that allows them to work correctly.

your better off filling your mounts yourself... 2 options:

1) Use Sikaflex 252 from bunnngs @ $24 a tube which is enough to do all the mounts in your car. You will have to clean all your stock mounts real well for these to graft.

2) Use Flexane (vary in gradings) @ ~$170 a half litre tub which includes a seperate primer. You will not be able to break this regardless how much torque you have. This thing chemically bonds to any rubber/plastic it touches:
http://www.gccorp.com.au/automotive/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=flexane&x=0&y=0

[beeza]

Thank U!
Option 1 looks good.

[dsp26]

Thank U!
Option 1 looks good.

I'm warning you that you have to clean them REAL well for this to be successful:thumbsup::thumbsup:

And for it to CURE quicker you will have to do half the mount or 1 side at a time. Sikaflex DRIES in 1hr, but CURES 1cm thickness per 24hr... an engine mount is about 2inches deep/width.....

i've only ever had a sikaflex set break once:

- improperly cleaned
- cured the whole thing in 24hrs instead of 48hrs and layered.

[nd55]

Anybody know of a local source for two pack polyurethane.

> Use Flexane (vary in gradings) @ ~$170 a half litre tub

$340/litre Ouch!

3M Window Weld (air cure, caulk tube type stuff) seems to be the hot ticket in the states from the internet forums.

I assume its about equivalent to Sikaflex 252.

Nick.

[omgzilla]

I've got about 4 bushes that need replacing too...

Anyone tried nolathane bushes or any other alternatives to billet mounts?

[dsp26]

I've got about 4 bushes that need replacing too...

Anyone tried nolathane bushes or any other alternatives to billet mounts?


Billet mounts suck for the price... getting engine torque dampers are far more value for money. or getting the FULL energy suspension inserts are better value for money... it generally costs $10 at a mech to press in/out a mount if your not game with your vice

Noltec in Thornleigh can also solid fill for you, however their polyurethane mix hardens a bit differently... kinda powders with friction.

^^^I have seen on more than one car, the bolt hole thing in the middle chewing through the mounts... and these were an SR20s with
around 100wkw and roughly double factory torque.

Sikaflex-ing or Flexane-ing yourself is the way to go over the stock rubber.

[beeza]

"or getting the FULL energy suspension inserts are better value for money..."

Are these for the top 2 mounts?

[omgzilla]

These 'Energy Suspension' inserts are a direct replacement for the standard bushes I take it?

Where can you buy them from?

Sorry to hijack thread.

Thanks in advance.

[beeza]

You use them with your existing OEM mounts.Yonas on here 'JDM Yard' sells them.$100 for the lower 2 + Rear mount insert.

[dsp26]

"or getting the FULL energy suspension inserts are better value for money..."

Are these for the top 2 mounts?

dunno what you mean.. but their just like billet mounts.... except you have to get the oem rubber/ring pressed out so you can get these pressed in.. they look like this i had on my NX coupe:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/Prothan%20Mounts/Prothane_Mounts.jpg

[dsp26]

aaah my bad... the ones i meant aren't by Energy Suspension... their by "Prothane"

you can get em anywhere in USA for cheap.... heres an example:
http://www.prostreetonline.com/x/prothane-motor-mount-inserts.asp

[dsp26]

Anybody know of a local source for two pack polyurethane.

> Use Flexane (vary in gradings) @ ~$170 a half litre tub

$340/litre Ouch!

3M Window Weld (air cure, caulk tube type stuff) seems to be the hot ticket in the states from the internet forums.

I assume its about equivalent to Sikaflex 252.

Nick.

you won't be using more than the half litre... the sikaflex tube i bought i'm pretty sure is only 400g and was just right to do all of my mounts except the water filled one which i couldn't remove.

my only other suggestion is to use sikaflex 227 on the front torque mounts and rear as it is soft like the oem rubber... it will still feel solid when fully filled, it will just have a slight flex which will reduce the notorious after-install cabin noise.

[Limbo]

Yes energy suspension do make the upper ones. I've got them ordered for my car. Can't rem the p/n though

[beeza]

Awesome! Thanks dsp26!!!!

[beeza]

Found em' on ebay.co much cheaper here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Prothane-Motor-Mount-Inserts-Honda-Civic-96-00-Si_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118QQcategor yZ33583QQihZ006QQitemZ7977870345QQrdZ1QQsspagename ZWD1V).Now just gotta get the seller to send em' to Aussieland :)

[dynosaur]

cool...man :)

[SPEEDCORE]

There is a place up here in QLD that restores old mounts with a selection of either rubber or poly in different durometers. I think the place is in Rocklea... I'll see if I can dig up where it is and post the details.

[omgzilla]

There is a place up here in QLD that restores old mounts with a selection of either rubber or poly in different durometers. I think the place is in Rocklea... I'll see if I can dig up where it is and post the details.

That'd be great!

[Limbo]

P.S energy suspension make the upper ones also. I brought them with the lower kit. They are a seperate kit for the EK. Had to get them from the US

[beeza]

These are the ones I'm gettin'
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Prothane-Motor-Mount-Inserts-Honda-Civic-96-00-Si_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33583QQihZ006QQitemZ 7977870345QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638Q2e m118Q2el1247

[nd55]

Beeza,

get the black ones.

Supposedly the graphite helps (IMHO not), but attract less attention if somebody wants to issue expensive bits of paper.

These days, it tends to be illegal unless somebody has proved otherwise.
Nick.

[beeza]

Thanks Nick,Point taken mate.

[omgzilla]

I'm actually thinking about getting the full bushing kit... hmmm.

[beeza]

Do it man forsure,I'm gonna.I read a couple in the states have every bushing ES make in thier car and that the difference is night and day.
There a a few bushes not in the master kit:
Leaf spring bushing
Body mounts
Transmission mounts
Shock and steering stabilizer boots
Rear Sway bar bushings

[nd55]

RE: Energy Suspension Master kit.

> There a a few bushes not in the master kit:
> Leaf spring bushing
> Body mounts

Body mounts and leaf springs aren't relevant for civic's.

> Rear Sway bar bushings

chances are you've upgraded your rear sway bar to a larger unit, in which case the master kit doesn't help much.

Another bush manufacturer is Prothane, they also have master kits.

Energy Suspension don't supply rear suspension bushes and are a bit softer than Prothane.

ES rear trailing bush is much cheaper than Prothane. The ES bush requires you to keep the old bush, burn out the rubber and insert the new ES poly bush.

Prothane rear trailing arm bush includes the outer metal shell

Another rear trailing arm bush you might want to look at ($$$) is Hardrace from Taiwan. Nice unit, apparently. Only source I know of is Ebay.

www.suspension.com are ok for ES and Prothane stuff.

Applications which lock the poly bush between two moving surfaces (eg front lower shock bush) will cause LOTS of squeaking. most bushes are ok. graphite and greasing doesn't help much.

Nick.

[beeza]

On ya Nick :)
*Energy Suspension don't supply rear suspension bushes and are a bit softer than Prothane.
What rear suspension bushes?

*The ES bush requires you to keep the old bush, burn out the rubber and insert the new ES poly bush.
What do you mean by 'burn out the rubber'?

The Black bushes from ES are self lubricating also but are they harder? I hear both,they are the same and they are harder...

[nd55]

Sorry Beeza, its hot, i'm tired and couldn't be bothered .... here's some quick notes from memory and I'll try again later this week.

> Energy Suspension don't supply rear suspension bushes

coil spring isolator, top and bottom shock bush and I think LCA bushes.

> What do you mean by 'burn out the rubber'

a poly bush installation looks deceptively simple. Some bushes are a downright nightmare to remove.

front lower lca - can't press it out 'cause the pressing action makes the outer shell swell and force itself to wedge into bush hole surface.

I tried a big arse workshop press and ... nothing.

Best approach is to light a fine propane torch and point the flame into the bush central bore.
After a looong time the bush will start to smoke and flame LOTS and then you just use a screwdriver to force it out.

You want to protect the lca itself from the flame and heat but it isn't too hard to do.

Then with a hacksaw/blade/file you slowly remove as much of the rubber material as possible.

It's a shit of a job.

Once you get to the bush metal shell a small cut with a hacksaw into the shell ONLY and it will fall out.

This all takes a long time.......

The rear trailing can be pressed out, from the inside to the outside. Its tapered and won't go the other way.

With the ES RTA bush there is an alternative. You can burn out the centre metal pin like above, remove all remaining rubber but don't touch the outside bush shell.

Once you clean up the inner surface of the shell (a light hone won't go astray), you press the poly bush into the old instact and inplace bush shell.

You reuse the centre pin after a quick clean up.

There's a lot of controlversy regards poly RTA bushes and snap oversteer on honda-tech.com. But also some happy users.

Seems it only affects autox drivers on hard cornering. Shouldn't be an issue on daily driver, but I don't know.

Probably safest option is to replace with an OEM piece.

> The Black bushes from ES are self lubricating

more cosmetic in my opinion.

> but are they harder?

red compared to black? they're the same.

Prothane compared to ES? Not too sure. I think Prothane is a little harder but not much in it.
Use OEM RTA and there's not much separateing them.

Remember when using OEM RTA's (new or old) to re-clock them for lowered suspension.



.... I'm off to sleep ... again.

Nick.

[beeza]

hehe,Good work mate!

[Limbo]

yeah they are only the upper ones.
You will need to get the bottom 3 inserts also to make it complete

[markoJEK1]

Sorry to bring the thread back alive, but Ive been researching and trying to get a set of the inserts and this is what ive found for $110 AUD you get the full complete upper and lower inserts that you will need so for anyone out there that is looking for them here it is -

This set covers the Front Lower left, right and Rear mounts.
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=16%2E1105&cat=1028

This set covers the Upper left and Upper right mounts.
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=85048505&cat=1028

[omgzilla]

Are you sure they're the right ones? I thought those red ones look to be for the 2x lower mounts?

I'm thinking about getting new OEM left and right lower mounts and then getting those Energy Suspension inserts.

My lower mounts are shagged!

[markoJEK1]

I asked engergy suspension supplier myself and he replied with those 2 links stating thats everyting needed for the mounts

[omgzilla]

Oh ok cool.

I'm going to get these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=190207878932
Shipping is only $17 odd (according to the seller).

And i might have to look into those kits you've got there marko... hmmm.

Group buy? haha

EDIT/UPDATE: Just got in contact with the seller of those mounts that i've linked above. I asked him if they were identical to original ones so I could use the inserts and he replied stating that the ones he's selling are in fact OEM, but revised/superseeded - stronger than the original and reinforced, so the inserts won't fit. He also stated that his ones would be just as durable, if not more, than normal mounts with the inserts.

Hmmm...

[vinnY]

bumping up an old thread
anyone end up getting the ES mounts for the gearbox and passenger side mount?

actually looking into the flexane stuff to fill the gearbox mount and probably drill a hole in the passenger mount and fill it up with flexane instead

[Limbo]

yeah i got them all, but i haven't put them in cos i dunno how ;p

[beeza]

I got the rear insert for a d-series for sale Here (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82682) :)

[vinnY]

need the side gearbox mount for b series ;)
might just try and find the prothane one, if i don't like it i'll just cast some flexane ones or something

[beeza]

Oh,cool.I heard the rear mount is the best one/most important to have for the gear changes.

[vinnY]

yeah i got a solid filled rear already, got ES inserts on the torque mounts(though i want to make solid urethane ones) and contemplating doing the gearbox one for the heck of it since i'll have left over urethane mix from doing the torque mounts
the side mounts don't really cause much vibration to worry about anyway, it's the rear and torque mounts you gotta be careful of
bit of vibes never hurt anyone, i don't sit there all day idling anyway ;)

[beeza]

hehehe

Hmmm,I'll have to look into the torque mounts.Cheers big ears!