What turbo?

[fat_85_civic]

Hey

Im starting to get together all the bits i need to turbo my civic at the moment and am unsure of what a good sized turbo is.
Im only loking at spending about 4-500 max. The three ive been looking at are:

s15 T28 Turbo
R32 T3 BB Turbo
s13 T25g Turbo

Im hoping for about 150kwatw and it will be mainly street driven so i dont want too much lag.

Im leaning towards the T28 as when i upgrade later on the T28 flange is easy to get better turbos for.

What are your oppinions and is there any better turbos i shoud be looking at?

Thanks
Luke

[IEVAQ8]

t28 as long as its a roller bearing/ ball bearing one from an import s15

[Limbo]

For the price no can't think of better turbos. ALso be very careful for $500 your getting a used turbo or a cheap made in china brand.
It could be a dud or blow on you

What engine is it for anyway? that will depend on what turbo you should get.

[fat_85_civic]

It's for a D16A3 which is a 1.6 Twincam pretty much exactly the same as a D16A8.

I want to get a stock turbo off of something rather than the shitty chinese turbos so i know it is quality, even if a bit used. Ill just have to hope for the best that its doesnt blow.

The BB ones seem to be selling for alot more than the bush ones, would the only difference be that it might spool a little slower?

[Limbo]

The BB ones spool up faster and also are more responsive and have less lag.
I'd prob recommend a T28 or T25G would be good also for your car. Anything bigger will give too much lag and will be crap as a daily driver. You car doesn't rev out that much either. If you don't mind not getting the BB ones you can look into the KK turbochargers which are bush bearing and quite good for bushbearing. They come out in SAABs etc.

Try looking on siliva sites as they often upgrade theirs

[nd55]

Hey,

I've done a bit of research along these lines, and here's my current train of thinking for a turbo d16.

An LSD is a must, as well as a means to control wheel hop.

> Im hoping for about 150kwatw and it will be mainly street driven so i dont want too much lag.

On a D16, with 150kW, your motor will be almost stock feeling up to an RPM point at which it comes alive. This is known as the spool rpm or BOOST. At the same time, and a seperate issue is the transient lag, where the motor takes half a second to respond to your accelerator inputs.

Amongst the turbos you've chosen (all good picks) there won't be much difference.

Much more important, on a FWD platform is the effect changing gears has. Some of the larger turbos don't spool until 5000rpm which means falling out of boost each time you shift and then having to wait until the rpms rise enough for boost to build again.

Highest priority is to choose a turbo which stays in boost across an upshift (under conditions you will be driving in) to minize the effects of lag.

> Im leaning towards the T28 as when i upgrade later on the T28 flange is easy to get better turbos for.

There's no such thing as a T28 flange.
There's a T2 flange and a T3 flange.
A T28 turbo is a hybrid of a T2 hot side, with a T3 cold side.

> t28 as long as its a roller bearing/ ball bearing one from an import s15

The idea of a T28 BB turbo is a bit of a myth. All locally released S15 are journal bearing. JDM S15's were released with a BB T28, but are rare and harder to identify.

The S15 journal bearing T28 is still a good unit. Perfect for your goals and great for street drivability.

GTiR have a journal bearing.84 A/r turbine T28, which means it will spool later the the S15 T28, but has greater power potential.

> R32 T3 BB Turbo

There's a few different versions of the GTR single turbo.

The most common have a ceramic turbine, which cuts weight, improving transient lag, but limits turbine speed. Usually rated to about 12 psi, which is within your goals power wise

S13 SR20DET: T-25, 60 trim 56mm BCI-1 compressor, 53.8mm 62 trim
T-25 turbine, .64 A/R turbine housing. Journal bearings.

S14 SR20DET: T-28, 60 trim 60 mm BCI-1 compressor in T-04B housing,
62 trim 53.8mm T-25 turbine. .64 A/R turbine housing. Ball bearing center
section.

S15 SR20DET: T-28, 60 trim 60 mm BCI-1 compressor in T-04B housing with Inco
turbine wheel, cast divider wall between turbine discharge and wastegate. Ball
bearing center section.

Pulsar GTi-R: T-28, 60 trim 60 mm BCI-1 compressor in standard T-3 housing. 79
trim 53.8mm Inco T-250 turbine wheel .86 A/R turbine housing. Journal
bearings.

Nissan turbos T28
Turbine with 4 bolts holding = non ball bearing

Tubrine with 5 or 6 bolts = ball bearing

BNR32 & R33 (14411-24U00)
Compressor Housing: T3
Compressor Wheel: T3
Compressor Wheel (mm): 42.5 - 60.1
Compressor Trim: 50T
Compressor A/R: 0.42
Turbine Housing: T25
Turbine Wheel: T25
Turbine Wheel (mm): 41.5 - 50.5
Turbine Trim: 62T
Turbine A/R: 0.48
Cut back: -
Core Bearings: 270°
Comments: Ceramic ~225PS

BNR34 (14411-AA300)
Compressor Housing: GT22(T3?)
Compressor Wheel: C100
Compressor Wheel (mm): 39.6 - 56.0
Compressor Trim: 50T
Compressor A/R: 0.53
Turbine Housing: T25
Turbine Wheel: GT25
Turbine Wheel (mm): 41.7 - 50.4
Turbine Trim: 68T
Turbine A/R: 0.48
Cut back: -
Core Bearings: BB
Comments: Ceramic ~225PS

I think either the T28 or T3 is fine. Work out what manifold you wish to run and then those the turbo to match the exhaust flange.

Another issue with the Nissan turbos, is that they are rear wheel drive and constructed such that the inlet/outlet orientation isn't necessarily the best.

Have a look at some turbo d16 installations, and you'll often see the exhaust side facing the passenger side, necessating a sharp turn downward to route the ex. pipe under the motor.

Orienting the turbo with the compressor facing the passenger side, means you have to construct you own cold air box, to enclose the intake for engineering requirements.

There's many compromises to be made.

50/57 trim t3/t4 hybrids are spruiked by many on www.turbod16.com.
Despite being way huge, with spool RPM not till 5000 revs some of their owners insist that despite the paper specs, the efficiency at which they do what they do means the differences are less than one might assume.
Not something I'd consider.

[Limbo]

The ballbearing ones have double fins on the intake side and have 6 bolts on the exhaust housing. That's how you tell them apart. The non-ballbearing ones are 4 bolts and usually single finned on the intake side.

The T28R is not that uncommon as they are used in alot of custom kits, and then upgraded when users want more power.

LSD is not really a must but it does help.

[Sexc86]

i know this is a bit off topic... but i have seen Gt28RS (disco Potato) Sell 2nd hand for around 1k or usually a bit under, i know this is still over budget but... this is an AWSOME turbo especially for a d16 DOHC. you Should look into it IMO

[Limbo]

yeah i seen the RS in action also. They spool up abit later than an R.
Just depends on what you want. I've spoken to someone with a D series T28R and they have told me that the turbo is abit laggy on it as is.

Seen the RS in a b16a and it kicks in around 5k rpm mark.
But has heaps of pull. Just depends on how he wants the setup.

I'm running the t28R atm and might move to the RS depending on how it does.

RS sells for around $1500 new & a T28R goes for about $1250 new. They apparently make both the same max power based on garrett site's rating.

You can get a T28R for around $600-700 for a decent one

[tekung89]

yep i agree with lyle. if u have the buget than go for the GT28RS, u wont be dissapointed. and wat ur after is a T2 flange =/ dnt think there is such thing as a t28 flange lol.

[SLOWEGG]

GT28RS kick in 5000rpm? LOL... are you sure it was connected to the motor?

[destrukshn]

GT28RS kick in 5000rpm? LOL... are you sure it was connected to the motor?
lol
lol

[Limbo]

yeah mate, just rem that the RS has a T3 wheel

[tekung89]

thats odd, i run a T3 bush bearing on a sohc motor and full boost is at 5rpm. gt28rs would definately hit full boost way before that.

[DLO01]

I had a GT28R on my B16A2 Delsol. Spooled up at 2.5k rpm and full boost just after 3k rpm. :thumbsup:

[IEVAQ8]

if ur interested in a cheap second hand good condition used t25 off my mate s13 180sx ca18det....its available.............he is upgrading for obvious reasons........more power..........
pm me, im sure he will let it go cheap as..............

[destrukshn]

thats odd, i run a T3 bush bearing on a sohc motor and full boost is at 5rpm. gt28rs would definately hit full boost way before that.
pardon? full boost at 5ooorpm?
talk about lagggg
dlo01's car hits i'm quite sure would hit full boost before that
and his using a 3037s
somethings gotta be wrong
lol

[Sexc86]

average quality T3 BUSH bearing Vs near flag ship quality Ball bearing Gt28...

Its not necesselary about size... its quality of the turbo and many many other factors about the engine it is running with and turbo setup.

[DLO01]

dlo01's car hits i'm quite sure would hit full boost before that
and his using a 3037s
somethings gotta be wrong
lol

Aye. 3037S on my B18C7 ITR.

WG opens about 5500. Thats with a big rear housing 1.06 AR.

[Limbo]

Don't forget he's got a b18 a D16 hasn't got as much grunt as a b18 so its gonna take longer to spool.

Also his T30 doesn't hit full boost till 5500. How long do you think a d16 is gonna take then? I'm pretty sure the D16 doesn't have anywhere near as much puff as a b18c

[SLOWEGG]

Nerv is running a GT28RS i believe, and hes getting full boost around 3500 and thats on a D16.

[tekung89]

did i mention i have a manifold leak? one of them sticks that hold the manifold broke, the motors faily old.. so new motor here i come :D cant remember wat full boosted woulda been at

[destrukshn]

Don't forget he's got a b18 a D16 hasn't got as much grunt as a b18 so its gonna take longer to spool.

Also his T30 doesn't hit full boost till 5500. How long do you think a d16 is gonna take then? I'm pretty sure the D16 doesn't have anywhere near as much puff as a b18c
yes, even at that, it still shouldn't hit full boost that late.
lol
the leak may explain it.
lol.
lol.
your right d16 doesn't have as much grunt as a b18, but i would call 5000 full boost quite late on a d16 with a t3

**** aye dean, you have a massive exhaust housing
lol.

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

didnt know you were on here fat 85 civic :p

to add to the topic you could do what ive seen/heard a few of the yanks doing.....volvo turbo :zip:

[Limbo]

Well i know the car made 175kw atw so i'm assuming no leak.
Not that many stock b16s i know are making that at 10psi

I'm not gonna say who cos they may not wanna be mentioned.
I know cos i was in the workshop while it was being built and after it got tuned.

[tekung89]

Well i know the car made 175kw atw so i'm assuming no leak.
Not that many stock b16s i know are making that at 10psi

I'm not gonna say who cos they may not wanna be mentioned.
I know cos i was in the workshop while it was being built and after it got tuned.

lol. lol

[Weq]

Well i know the car made 175kw atw so i'm assuming no leak.
Not that many stock b16s i know are making that at 10psi

I'm not gonna say who cos they may not wanna be mentioned.
I know cos i was in the workshop while it was being built and after it got tuned.

T3/T4 .57 Trim Stage 3 wheel.

Hits fullboost around 5500rpm on a b16a.

Made a healthy 170kw at gate pressure (8psi).

[dudeling7]

hey weq, was that using the .63 a/r?

[Weq]

hey weq, was that using the .63 a/r?

.82

you could easily run the .63 on a non-built engine. I think u only gain a few hundred rpm spool though, which in the end, probably isnt worth the breathing ability uptop. Breathing is the key for the b-series!

[Centurius]

my D16A8 is running a high-flowed 28, and the kick in the arse comes at 4K.. not sure what engine it came off originally, and i'm pretty sure you could drop it further with better piping and FMIC setup etc..

[1996ek1]

The ballbearing ones have double fins on the intake side and have 6 bolts on the exhaust housing. That's how you tell them apart. The non-ballbearing ones are 4 bolts and usually single finned on the intake side.





Is that just the T28 or the T25 also?
Because i have a T25, 6 bolts on hot side, 6 bolts on cold side. Double intake fins...

Wow, i perhaps have a ball bearing...

[Lukezen27]

Is that just the T28 or the T25 also?
Because i have a T25, 6 bolts on hot side, 6 bolts on cold side. Double intake fins...

Wow, i perhaps have a ball bearing...

Give it to me?

You won't like boost anyway :p

[1996ek1]

Wowww... i hav a BB? Im so excited...
I payed $300 and its like perfect...

[Lukezen27]

Wowww... i hav a BB? Im so excited...
I payed $300 and its like perfect...

Hm $300 sure its not made of plastic?

lol

[1996ek1]

Lol, hmm could be
Looks abit plasticy

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7854/p10100444jq2.jpg

(except for the stuff on the 2 fins, iuno how to clean that off? )

[nd55]

> Hm $300 sure its not made of plastic?

some late model Nissan GTR-R turbos have a composite (plastic) compressor and ceramic turbine.

Nick.

[Lukezen27]

> Hm $300 sure its not made of plastic?

some late model Nissan GTR-R turbos have a composite (plastic) compressor and ceramic turbine.

Nick.

Was a joke dude 1996ek1 (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=16068) picked it up lol

[STR8E180]

u shouldnt even be worried about lag with the compression ratio of ur engine
high compression engines bring boost on alot faster then a low compresion engine
if i was in ur shoes i would personally use a T28

[STR8E180]

Is that just the T28 or the T25 also?
Because i have a T25, 6 bolts on hot side, 6 bolts on cold side. Double intake fins...

Wow, i perhaps have a ball bearing...

sorry mate but T25 from a early model SR20 neva came in a ball bearing model

the only ball bearing T25's are the GT25 series turbo's from garrett