Alpine PDX-4.100 + Boston Pro60's ?

[EuroSteve]

Hi All,

I'm looking at replacing the factory speakers in my Euro, and was wondering if any of you had any opinions/thoughts?

I'm travelling to the US in a few weeks, and plan to pick up some gear over there. It's just astonishing the price difference (esp. with the good exchange rate at the moment).

Currently I have my sights set on an Alpine PDX-4.100 amp. and Boston Pro60's splits. The amp. should fit nicely under the passenger seat, but I still need to check if the Pro60's will fit ok.

Anyone have any advice on a pair of 6x9's that would work well with the Pro60's?

Thanks!

-Steve

[arverson]

obviously dont spend pro60 kind of money on rears, so maybe a lower spec boston 6x9s?? or anything really. shouldnt really matter much in the end.

if the pro60s dont fit, make custom pods! no point forking out that much on em in the first place if your only gonna give it a half-ass'd install...

going 'active' with the 4chan??

[euro_tr4sh]

i wouldnt bother with rears honestly, unless you cart around carloads of people often its would be money wasted... spent the extra dosh and up-grade on front splits or even a small 10" in a sealed box would yeild much better results and make the listening all the more pleasurable, unless ofcourse boot space is at a premium, and the pro 60's will fit, they may need to be spaced out 15-20mm to clear depth wise

[EuroSteve]

Thanks for the comments euro_tr4sh.

Yeah, i'm not sure what to do at the back. Another option is to d/c the 6x9's and wire in another set of splits in the rear doors. At this stage boot space is pretty important, so i'm going to leave the sub for a bit.

I want to leave the car looking as stock as possible. Today I pulled out a tweeter lid and measured the stock tweeter, 40mm by the looks of it. The Pro60's come with 45mm tweeters, bugger! I might still be able to fit them under the lid though.

Also, check out http://www.millionbuy.com/aihsb518.html and http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28846. I'm going to use these in the doors, but the Pro60's need 65mm of clearence, so I might need to space them out even more. I haven't pulled a door panel off yet, do you know how much room there is between the speaker and panel (>20mm?).

S.

[integraz]

65mm is a good depth. compared to some larger ones [70mm-90mm]

you will just need a mdf spacer ring, that will increase your depth.

Also note the pro's are 6 3/4" so slightly larger.

the gear will be great, but correct installation is a must, and also sound deaden your doors, a must for quality gear, IMO there is not point in spending on good speakers if u don't deaden it with dynamat.

[EuroSteve]

the gear will be great, but correct installation is a must, and also sound deaden your doors, a must for quality gear, IMO there is not point in spending on good speakers if u don't deaden it with dynamat.

Totally agree integraz! I already have the Dynamat Xtreme on the list... ;-)

S.

[Pumped]

For my front speakers ive got Alpine Type X Splits, they have a mounting depth of 70.2mm.

My speakers will fit with a spacer, you shouldnt have much trouble, one thing ive found though is that the plastic ring on the inside of the trim around the standard speaker did need to be cut inorder to fit the spacer properly and you cant go with a spacer thats to thick or your trim wont fit on properly. there isnt much room there, I had a set of morel elate 6's to go in but they were going to be to much effort to fit.
Theres not much of a hole either, its not a full circle, kinda of an odd oval shape so make sure the magnet set up on the pro60s isnt huge.

Pro60s & Alpine PDX should sound great! :)

[EuroSteve]

Well today I pulled the passenger front door panel off to take some measurments. I wanted to be sure these Pro60's were going to fit before I order them!

Well, without hacking away some of the car door, I really don't think they are going to fit....

So, now I have my eye on the SPZ-60's. They are considerbly more expensive, but are smaller and perform better, and should fit. It's going to be close, but I made a cut-out of the side view of the speaker and "trial" fitted it. The SPZ60's have these "cooling vents" at 4 points around the back of the speaker, I think if I rotate the speaker so the vents are on the diagonals, it should give me enough room. The speakers will need to be spaced out from the chassis by about 30mm. (The factory speakers sit ~25mm out from the chassis).

Here's some photos I took:
http://aycu06.webshots.com/image/39965/2001244005432867094_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001244005432867094) http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/36992/2001230366574833389_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001230366574833389) http://aycu40.webshots.com/image/39639/2001291312718127234_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001291312718127234) http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/38703/2001237251625907547_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001237251625907547) http://aycu39.webshots.com/image/40158/2001248947072286461_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001248947072286461) http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/39432/2001278956042736423_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001278956042736423) http://aycu09.webshots.com/image/38008/2001232506262194983_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001232506262194983) http://aycu11.webshots.com/image/39010/2001201025488778322_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001201025488778322) http://aycu30.webshots.com/image/37749/2001292000584876850_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001292000584876850) http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/37914/2003937103185577964_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003937103185577964) http://aycu07.webshots.com/image/37726/2003079516669497607_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003079516669497607)

As I mentioned above, i've purchased some brackets that should make mounting the speakers very easy.

Hope this information can help others!

S.

PS. I'll take more photos and post my notes when I actually get the speakers and fit them.

[ticklenow1]

I have the alpine PDX4.100 in my 04 Euro and the fact that it is a small amplifier (for the power output) makes it a good fit for the Euro. I have it mounted on brackets under the rear parcel shelf. I also bought it from the states and only paid about $375. A big saving from the $699 shelf price over here. I agonised over front speaker selection and now wish I had gone with the Pro 60's (I have used Boston in past cars and can't fault them). I went for the new Alpine X Types (SPX-17REF), which I think will be released in Oz this month or next. They are a decent speaker, but for the money I think there is better out there. The tweeters fit straight into the original mounts with the use of a couple of clips. I had to manufacture a 24mm spacer to get a good fit to the door trim for the woofers. They fit perfectly inside the lip of the door trim. The only down side was that I had to cut about 3 or 4mm of the door away. I was told that they would fit but I couldn't get them to without cutting. I didn't want to cut but in the end, what the hell. I also dynamatted the doors. I installed Alpine R Type 6x9's in the rear.

I used a Rockford Fosgate CP1 LOC. I want to change this to a Sven or Navone.

I must say that is more than enough bass in this setup. Put something like Sneaky Sound System on and the bass is tight and loud. Even with ablusey type music it is bassy and clear. It is not as good as a system with subs but I am more than happy with it. I also need boot space (Golf Clubs and Prams etc!) and did not entertain the idea of a sub. I would like to maybe try a set of Boston SL95's or the top of the line JL Audio's, but until I hear them the Alpines will have to do.

If you go with your Boston speaker/Alpine Amp setup then seriously, put a good set of 6x9's in the rear and you will be more than happy!!

Good Luck!

[EuroSteve]

Thanks for the post tickelnow1, that's good info!

What's your reason for changing LOC's? Any opinions on the Phoenix Gold SLD44? (See ftp://www.rodinaudio.com/Phoenix%20Gold%20Mobile%20Audio/Manuals/Processors/SLD44_Manual.pdf and http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=18460)

Yeah, at this stage i'm not interested in a sub. I need the boot space and i'm actually quite impressed with the bass response the factory speakers produce. If I can get the same or better with aftermarket fronts and 6x9's i'll be happy.

I also sourced the Alpine amp. and Boston speakers in the US....HEAPS cheaper! I have 32 sq ft of Dynamat arriving next week...going to do all 4 doors to start with.

I'll keep you updated on my progress.

Cheers!

S.

[ticklenow1]

EuroSteve,

You will get much better base response from a quality set of aftermarket 6x9's. The factory ones are quite frankly, crap. My first upgrade was fitting the Type R's and it made a huge difference.

I also would not bother with sound deadening the back doors if you are not going to put speakers in them. If you want to do it well, do the front doors (both skins) and the back parcel shelf.

I am going to change the LOC because I have the dreaded 04 Euro buzz (seems to be a common problem, with plenty on this forum experiencing it). I am going to order a Pivot Raizin as well to try and beat this problem. I have been told by a good installer that the Sven or Navone are the best although a couple of guys on this forum (I have read) like the Alpine LOC's. The only problem with the Alpine LOC's is that they have no gain adjustment. Whether this is a must is debatable as my local Alpine dealer swears by them. I went with the Rockford because it had a remote turn on which was a mistake as it doesn't work as stated (not enough power to turn the amp on)

Let me know how you go. Once again, good luck!

[lieos]

you should think about using all the channels from the amp to your pro60's they love the power also to get the most out of them dynamat your door, cut up some mdf and put it over your service holes and make sure you mount the speakers securely and you will find you wont even need 6x9s.

[lieos]

oops just realised you are dynamatting your doors lol

[EuroSteve]

(As I mentioned above, I decided to go with the SPZ60's over the Pro60's)

Here's some more pic'ies:

SPZ60's
http://aycu02.webshots.com/image/41881/2005229247779305844_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005229247779305844) http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/39903/2005221705558271861_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005221705558271861) http://aycu09.webshots.com/image/41488/2005222314319872804_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005222314319872804)

SPZ60 Tweeter (right) vs. OEM Tweeter (left)
http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/42060/2005205461213699830_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005205461213699830) http://aycu12.webshots.com/image/39891/2005247917755982031_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005247917755982031) http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/40023/2005202346196784018_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005202346196784018) http://aycu39.webshots.com/image/38918/2005266654529412047_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005266654529412047)

PDX-4.150
http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/39374/2005292453399863174_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005292453399863174) http://aycu38.webshots.com/image/40557/2005249796324507624_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005249796324507624) http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/42756/2005217435811156153_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005217435811156153)

Points of interest:
- Very impressed with the size of the amp! Amazing considering the output!
- Tweeters fit snug in the OEM tweeter covers
- X-overs are HUGE, where am I supposed to put em?? I'm thinking under the seats...
- Build quality of the Boston's is impressive!, Made in the U.S.A

On other matters...After much thought, i've decided to go with Boston SL95 6x9's for the rear. They should arrive in a couple weeks along with a Kicker CK44 Amp. Install Kit.

Just about got all the bits together...

[cutchorama]

You got the 4.150? I thought you were going for the 4.100? I was thinking of getting the pdx 4.100 and so far have found it for a bit over $500. Where did you source your amp from?

Looking at the G4 now as well... looks great and would go well with the euro dash.

[ticklenow1]

EuroSteve,

I put my crossovers in the boot behind the liner. There is plenty of room. I also put my LOC there as well. You can fit 1 crossover behind the kick panel on the driver side.

Cutchorama,

I got my PDX 4.100 on ebay from the National Audio Centre (US). About $370 delivered.

[EuroSteve]

Yep, originally I was going to purchase my gear while in the US, but after seeing those ebay prices (and worried whether i'd fit all the gear in my bags), I got the stuff delivered. My PDX-4.150 and SPZ60's were from NationalAudioCenter also.

S.

[EuroSteve]

Ok, so most of my gear has arrived now and I need to start thinking seriously about exactly where i'm going to put it all / route the wires.

These are my thoughts, please let me know what you think!


Amp. Placement:
I've abandoned the idea of putting the amp. under the passenger seat, it's now going in the boot. The PDX's are pretty small, so i'm thinking of mounting it on the back of the left rear seat. I should be able to mount a piece of MDF behind the rear seat cover to the thin metal of the back seat. The amp. can then mount to the MDF. However, this would mean i'd be screwing holes through the back of the seat cover, which would be nice to avoid...

X-Over Placement:
The x-over's for the SPZ60's are friggin huge, which kinda sucks. I'm thinking they too will need to mount to the back of the rear seat beside the amp.

Amp. Power Wire (4 Gauge):
I'm thinking i'll route the power wire like this: Battery -> fuse -> firewall grommet -> behind passenger side kick panel -> along left-side door sill/panels -> behind far left section of the rear seat -> into the boot.

Amp. Ground Wire (4 Gauge):
I've read, though I haven't pulled the rear seat up to verify, that there is a good ground under the rear seat? I've seen the ground near the fuel pump in the boot, but that really doesn't seem like a good idea. loose ground = (sparks + fuel vapour) = BOOM!

Speaker Wire routes:
The left split pairs (one for woofer in door, other for tweeter in dash) will follow the amp. power cable back to the door and dash. Same route, but opposite side for the right front splits.

Signal Wire (inc. amp remote wire):
In my case, this will be a USB cable (digital audio). I'm running an external USB sound card (from my Infill G4 HU) that will mount close to the amp. with very short RCA cables. This should give me a good SNR. I think the USB cable should follow the same route as the amp. power cable, but on the right side of the car (follow the right front speaker wires).

Your thoughts/advice is greatly appreciated!

S.

[NVD52K]

ive got the spz in series in my s2000 and they are very clear although i have a alpine pdx 4 channel amp bridged out to both which they are very top quality sound

[KenL]

Amp. Placement:
I've abandoned the idea of putting the amp. under the passenger seat, it's now going in the boot. The PDX's are pretty small, so i'm thinking of mounting it on the back of the left rear seat. I should be able to mount a piece of MDF behind the rear seat cover to the thin metal of the back seat. The amp. can then mount to the MDF. However, this would mean i'd be screwing holes through the back of the seat cover, which would be nice to avoid...


Regarding the amp placement, perhaps under the rear parcel shelf (under the middle brake light, towards the driver's side) might be worth a look?

There are 4 'keyhole' shaped slots under mine (06 lux) and just measured up -the amp (26x19cm) should fit with no drilling in car required - this is where I am intending to put my sub's amp. My $0.02 follows (apologies for the long post!):

Hit Bunnings & get 4 longish M5 bolts, 8 std nuts, 4 nylon threaded nuts & 16 washers. Double check size of keyhole slot to make sure bolts can move through - I'm not 100% sure on the width of the slot as I checked in low light!
Insert each bolt and a washer through the 4 keyholes such that the long ends point down, slide it to the narrow end of the slot and lock in with another washer and a nut - tighten so the bolts do not move (spring washers are a better alternative given vibrations). Could be tricky to tighten the nuts given limited access to the top of the bolt - but this is the most difficult part.
Spin on a second nut - this will only serve to space the MDF mounting plate away from the curved parcel shelf (and provide some handy ventilation as well)
Cut up a piece of MDF big enough to cover the amp's mounting holes, drill holes for mounting the amp as appropriate
Measure up where the 4 bolts need to pass through the MDF, drill 4 holes to fit the bolts and secure the MDF with the 4 nylon threaded nuts and 8 washers on both sides of the MDF to prevent nuts from crushing through. Also, depending on the height of the nuts you are using, you may just need to countersink the nylon threaded nuts a little to avoid touching the base of the amp chassis...


What you will left with now is a suspended but secure piece of MDF for mounting the amp - you should be able to fine-tune the space between the parcel shelf and MDF using the nuts in step 3 above.

For a super-neat look, you could probably pass all the wires between the parcel shelf base and the carpet on top and then drop them down through holes on both the left/right ends of the parcel shelf. No wires to be seen unless you duck your head to admire your SL95s :)

Hope that makes sense - its just a suggestion, and could be better than screwing the amps to the back of the rear seats. Probably other ideas floating around in this forum. Note I'm yet to try this idea myself but the idea has been floating in my head for sometime.


X-Over Placement:
The x-over's for the SPZ60's are friggin huge, which kinda sucks. I'm thinking they too will need to mount to the back of the rear seat beside the amp.


Hmmm - could the x-overs go behind the boot liner in the vicinity of the rear wheels? I'm not sure how these would mount but I seem to remember seeing pics from a US Acura website putting the XM-radio units in there...

[EuroSteve]

Thanks for the post KenL, all great suggestions!! Don't worry about it being long, detail is good! :p

I just went and had a look at the parcel shelf, and you're right, there's actually a bit of a cavitity up under there that should fit the PDX nicely. I also see the 4 keyhole shaped slots you're talking about.

Also looking at the boot liner (I haven't pulled it all out yet), and you're right again, it's not that "tight" against the car body, so hopefully there's a spot there somewhere each side I can hide away the x-overs. I'm much more liking this idea than mounting the amp and x-overs to the back of the seat.

Any suggestions for grounding locations for the amp.?

Aside, I was Dynamat'ing my front doors this arvo and noticed a bit of a problem in the drivers side door. Where the wires route through from the car into the door (through the rubber thing); instead of the wires just going through a hole in the door, they go through what looks like a huge plug/socket. It's a little hard to describe, i'll take a photo tomorrow and post. But essentially, I can't see any easy way of routing my speaker wires :( There problem doesn't exist on the passenger side. Anyone got any ideas?

Thanks again KenL for the great post.

Cheers,
Steve

[Mattski_VTIR]

Nice system there, never heard the speakers but have heard good things about them! I know all to well the problems of mounting large crossovers.. i ended up building an amp rack to house everything (better option the screwing to back seet) As for the wire clip, if its what i think it is, i had a similar problem when installing splits into a friends SSS Pulsar. The plug ended up having plenty of un used pins.. i drilled them out and fed the wire through! I could possible dig up some old pic's and PM if your interested

[KenL]

Any suggestions for grounding locations for the amp.?


When finding a decent ground point, you're looking for some sort of bolt that actually screws into a part of the vehicle's chassis (or into a nut that is welded to the vehicle's chassis). As ya know car paint is a pretty poor conductor so and standard free-turning nut/bolt combos are no good, even if they have a spring / star washer... I guess not too many people are keen on scratching off their paint for the sake of a good ground point due to potential for corrosion in the moister climates.

Using that principle, I think there's a good grounding point right near the suggested amp location, under the parcel shelf. Just locate your boot isolator switch (the one that disables the electronic latch on the boot) - the frame that supports the switch is screwed directly to the parcel shelf with two bolts.

I checked with my multimeter just then and appears to be <0.5 Ohm resistance between each bolt and the tail light ground which should be good enough for your PDX4.150. You would still need to test this point if you were running say a 1000W amp tho (in that case, suggest you either find a proper ground or run a 4 gauge wire directly back to the batt).

If you're happy with the that approach, suggest you consider making the location into a neat multi-terminal ground point so its easy to add other stuff later (eg. sub-woofer amp, lighting, motorised boot opener etc. :)) - might even want to consider rigging it in such a way that you can use a single beefy capacitor for multiple components...



Aside, I was Dynamat'ing my front doors this arvo and noticed a bit of a problem in the drivers side door. Where the wires route through from the car into the door (through the rubber thing); instead of the wires just going through a hole in the door, they go through what looks like a huge plug/socket...


Quite a common occurrence with the new cars with all sorts of switch gear in the doors (European cars are worse with stuff like heated mirrors as well). The easiest way I can think of is:

Lift off the boot housing and disconnect the plugs from the door
Push the socket into the door by squeezing the one-way clips at the top/bottom
Reconnect the plugs inside the door (I think there is enough slack to do that... not sure tho)
Secure the plugs using cable-ties and/or double-sided adhesive tape inside the door so they don't rattle around
After you've installed the speakers and run your wires back through the boot housing
Lastly, cut up some double sided tape to fit the rectangular shape of the rubber boot and stick it back on the door - make it a good seal especially around the top and sides to prevent moisture from getting in ya door


If there's not enough slack in the OEM door wires - just rig up some male-female connectors like you are doing with the OEM head unit in your car.

Again, this is only stuff I've planned to do on my own Euro but not yet tried (no flames please if it doesn't work!). Seems like a clean approach if you intend to return your car back to stock if it comes time to sell. Hope these ideas are able to help you and any others interested!

Cheers, Ken

[EuroSteve]

Thanks for the posts guys!

Had a much better look at the wiring going into the drivers door this arvo. Good news, turns out it actually is a plug and socket. After pulling the rubber conduit back away from the door, it exposes two plugs.

Here's some pics:
http://aycu14.webshots.com/image/42893/2003895413939264573_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003895413939264573) http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/43663/2003844022497904312_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003844022497904312) http://aycu40.webshots.com/image/43199/2003861349941810463_th.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003861349941810463)
I'll probably end up drilling out some of the "unused" area of the plug to slip the speaker wires through.

KenL, I checked out your suggested grounding location, and it's perfect! Dunno why I didn't consider it earlier! :p

I've now finished Dynamat'ing the outer skin of the front doors. Dynamat can be tricky stuff to work with, but I didn't find it too bad. A small roller is a must! I ended up using 2 sheets per door. Once i've sorted out the speaker wiring, i'll Dynamat the inner skin (will probably take a little less than 2 sheets, making it ~4 sheets total per door).

I've been driving around for the past couple days without the door panels, feels very strange...:p

S.

[KenL]

I'll probably end up drilling out some of the "unused" area of the plug to slip the speaker wires through.


Drilling through the plug - now that's a neato idea... :thumbsup:

Great to see your project coming to light mate - look forward to seeing more as you get all the gear in. Best of luck, Ken

[NVD52K]

i have pdx amps and type x subs in my s2k with dynamathttp://http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/james_p33/Image000.jpg

[NVD52K]

im running spz 6 inch splits which crank with the roof off the whole street can hear it bridged from a 4 channel amp