James Race Engines - help needed

[EGB18CT]

Hi Guys,

Recently i was going to start a big na k series build, but since i alreay have a gsr motor, i will be completely transforming that into a huge HP motor as the na way i cant see it reaching my goals down the 1/4 (very low to flat 10s)

As a result i need to go all out, i was thinking of shipping my block to sean at ERL Performance or Benson's to get sleeved etc. Now i came across James Race Engines in Flemingtom Melb who also does darton sleeves and have done a few honda blocks and if i can remember Chasers s15 back when it was called BMC Motorsports have work done by them to get to 400kw.

Now has anyone have blocks sleeved by them? I cant afford half arsed jobs where people think they know what they are doing. I dont want the sleeves to sink, warp, crack leak etc. They need to support 30psi of boost.

Cheers guys looking forward to hearing advice from those of you with higher end build and pro engine builders.

Thanks Dan.:thumbsup:

[z3lda]

buy blocks from the US, its cheaper and those guys know what they are doing

[EGB18CT]

yeh thats what im thinking of doing just found these guys, just that id save on the shipping, customs and trying to get in contact with the guys in the states too. Just weighing up my options.

[Benson]

Whats your budget?

[EGB18CT]

budget would be around 10-15k for just the motor build (already got the motor) give or take the turbo kit (around 6-7 for the kit).

[barefootbonzai]

I don't think getting the power will be the biggest issue with gettting a 10sec pass in your civic.

Are you planing to keep it a street driven car or just an all out Drag car?

[EGB18CT]

This is basically the where abouts of what i want to build and whatever it will take to fund the project:
B18C (gsr motor)
BLOCK:
sleeved to 94mm (ERL or Benson spec)
Pauter Rods
Wiseco Pistons (coated)
Pins and all that to suit the power levels
GSR balanced and knife edged crank
Honda Bearings
ERL Block girdle
Cometic gasket

Race port and polish with 3 angle valve job
Ferrera or supertech springs, Ti retainers and valves (maybe 0.5mm over intake, 1mm over exhaust -not decided yet) with maybe OEM keepers
Skunk pro stage 2 cams (or itr for now)
Skunk pro cam gears
billet cam caps
Victor X intake manifold
70mm minimun TB
Full race or other quality top mount kit with gt35 or 40r (not decided on turbo yet)
Uprated oil pump and water pump
hondata s200b
1000cc injectors
MSD ignition
dss 5.9 axels
my gsr 5sp with quaife and clutchmasters twin clutch (looking into gearbox strengethning)

anyway thats the basics, just need to see where id be better off building the project, i know these builds are regularly seen in the states, basically a SFWD build.

[EGB18CT]

car will rarely see the street (it rarely sees it now as like i take it out just to keep it all charged and a bit of a run etc...) but i would like it to still be streetable so running like low boost for street on pump fuel and c16 on track

[Weq]

Get everything shipped directly from the states. Dont even bother as no australian machine shop has the knowledge or machinary to do what you want.

Its a pretty simple forumla. By everything from the US, bolt-on and get someone good to tune it. ie Not dave!!

[EGB18CT]

thanks weq i think i may do this, ive seen similar buils being sold over there for around 2-4k for the head (2k being without cams and rockers which i swap over from mine) and blocks from 4-6k thats in usd so they are built by their best machine shops and builders overthere.

Tuner will most likely be James (blkcrx) as hes in melb and got similar build from what i have seen.

[Weq]

thanks weq i think i may do this, ive seen similar buils being sold over there for around 2-4k for the head (2k being without cams and rockers which i swap over from mine) and blocks from 4-6k thats in usd so they are built by their best machine shops and builders overthere.

Tuner will most likely be James (blkcrx) as hes in melb and got similar build from what i have seen.

Thats is man. I know plenty of imported blocks that have withstood even the most brutal punishment. I think u will find that most, if not all of James setup was sourced from the US too.. Then slightly customised in aussie land.

[IEVAQ8]

i would double check with being able to register those american blocks here in aus..that may be a big prob once its all built and ready.........it would be a shame to get a canary or something stupid and then have to go through pits and then before you know it, ur ewither turning ur car into a track only car or pulling out the mottor to keep it on the road............
y dont u give james a buz and ask him where he got his sleeving done for his b16a???????????
it is about 3-4k, but you shoud have seen the quality of his sleeves.........i was fortunate to be able to go and watch him assemble his engine...........it is gorgeous..............

[EGB18CT]

I know james engineered his turbo b16 motor and went thru epa testing and passed all so im assuming that if you do that there should be no problem getting them registered, ive got the gsr motor from japan in my car now but its not registered and i believe to get it engineered its about 700 thru rowan at cartech (more for epa tesing and such) a few engineered wanted like 2k and didnt really know what they were doing saying ill need full epa testing because they didnt know the emissions overseas but if i could prove that the jdm motor was like the USDM or AUDM or better emission then it wont need the testing. Obviously the turbo ill need to do what james did. Ill have to go see him one day just been busy as hell and dont want to waste his time just asking a few questions as the project wont be all done in one hit etc... im carefully planning this trying to find out what works from people in the past.

thanks for you info guys.
IEVAQ-8 mite have to meet up one day get those bearings off ya again lol now that im back onto this project!

[IEVAQ8]

lol.............for sure....if u wanted to this weekend my mate is wroking in spare parts on saturday and he would be more than happy to order them all for ya..........
othger wise let me know when ur ready and we will definatle meet up and organise it

[panda[cRx]]

I know james engineered his turbo b16 motor and went thru epa testing and passed all so im assuming that if you do that there should be no problem getting them registered, ive got the gsr motor from japan in my car now but its not registered and i believe to get it engineered its about 700 thru rowan at cartech (more for epa tesing and such) a few engineered wanted like 2k and didnt really know what they were doing saying ill need full epa testing because they didnt know the emissions overseas but if i could prove that the jdm motor was like the USDM or AUDM or better emission then it wont need the testing. Obviously the turbo ill need to do what james did. Ill have to go see him one day just been busy as hell and dont want to waste his time just asking a few questions as the project wont be all done in one hit etc... im carefully planning this trying to find out what works from people in the past.

thanks for you info guys.
IEVAQ-8 mite have to meet up one day get those bearings off ya again lol now that im back onto this project!

ask blkcrx how much he spent on getting his car legal.... from what i heard back in the day it was a fair chunk of coin

[mrfsport]

As weg said, get it done through the US, Golden Eagle, JG and others.
Also try this site http://drive.to/dhracing

Weg what do you mean by someone good to tune it. ie Not dave
Ive also heard some bad refrences about dave's tuning, go to someone like maztech or james





Get everything shipped directly from the states. Dont even bother as no australian machine shop has the knowledge or machinary to do what you want.

Its a pretty simple forumla. By everything from the US, bolt-on and get someone good to tune it. ie Not dave!!

[grumpy rooster]

Having the engine built here in Oz is not a stupid idea. I am able to source all the parts for you (as could many other people) and then get a reputable engine builder to build it. I would start with THIS (http://www.rocketindustries.com.au/descriptions.php?partno=DA31496801://) block. Its a Dart aluminium block with 84.5mm bores and steel main caps. You also have the option of the B20 block. The most important aspect of that particular block is it is a closed deck design.

My one big problem with what you want to do is your budget. For that power your budget may take a bit of a hammering.

[Benson]

I agree with grumpy rooster. Its good to have the engine built here and get bits and peices from the states. The states do make very nice products and is of much better quality than Australia.

There are a few quality Honda engine builders here in Australia. Do your research and go from there.

Oh BTW, that blkcrx guy, what 1/4mile has it ran?

Remember power isnt everything, chasis set-up is equally important!.

[EG5]

I agree with grumpy rooster. Its good to have the engine built here and get bits and peices from the states. The states do make very nice products and is of much better quality than Australia.

There are a few quality Honda engine builders here in Australia. Do your research and go from there.

Oh BTW, that blkcrx guy, what 1/4mile has it ran? or is it a dyno queen which some people have been saying?

Remember power isnt everything, chasis set-up is equally important!.

11.6@129mph

[fatboyz39]

you'll need about 600-800hp in a fairly light car to be into 10's.

You mention sleeved to 94mm (ERL or Benson spec) for a b18c block? wtf 94mm sleeves?

There's a few good honda engine builders/tuners in Australia. No need to do eveyrthing in US.

[fatboyz39]

Seen that red CRX that runs 9's? Running STOCK b16a sleeves with rods/pistons. Its other bits and pieces.

[EGB18CT]

shit i ment 84mm typo, suspension stuff is no problems in that area atm and the car will be stripped, i just want to run some decent MPH at the track, i want the setup to be capable of around 140mph.

So far im leaning to getting it build over in the states or getting james to do it and the block sleeved somewhere. Thats my main issue is the machine shops here making nice sleeved blocks using the proper tools that make perfect blocks that dont drop sleeves.\

If i was to get it sleeved here what people would you recommend, otherwise ill go with ERL or Bensons.

[EGB18CT]

also i know power isnt everything initally i was going to go k24 na but it wouldnt get me where i want to be, so k24 turbo or k20 but they would produce too much torque making it difficult to put the power down. So ill stick to my b18c, make use of its lower end tq so traction is easier, and work on all the rod to stroke ratios and make it rev to make use of a big turbos top end spool.

[Benson]

Yeh get James to build and tune it

[mrfsport]

Name me a few good honda engine builders in Oz.

I rate these guys only:
TODA AUST & CROYDON BOTH FOR ENGINE BUILDING AND TUNING.

The rest have no idea.





you'll need about 600-800hp in a fairly light car to be into 10's.

You mention sleeved to 94mm (ERL or Benson spec) for a b18c block? wtf 94mm sleeves?

There's a few good honda engine builders/tuners in Australia. No need to do eveyrthing in US.

[grumpy rooster]

I know people in Adelaide and Sydney I would use as machinists but not in Melbourne. Ask Andy (AK Motorworks) who he uses. Or better still, get him to build it.

If it was me I would be using Darton mid sleeves or the Darton aluminium block and doing it all here in Oz.

[EGB18CT]

Anyway i hope i havnt confused people with Jame (BLKCRX) and James' Race Engines! Just wanting to know if anyone has used them to sleeve honda blocks in particular for b series motors and for boost. There located in Flemington (were in Nth Melb and some other place)

see link: (top block is sr20, lower is the b18c)
http://www.engineaction.com/photos.htm

[grumpy rooster]

Name me a few good honda engine builders in Oz.

I rate these guys only:
TODA AUST & CROYDON BOTH FOR ENGINE BUILDING AND TUNING.

The rest have no idea.

You make it sound like a Honda engine is some great mysterious engine that noone has ever worked on. There are lots more people with a good understanding of what makes a Honda engine tick. :)

[grumpy rooster]

Anyway i hope i havnt confused people with Jame (BLKCRX) and James' Race Engines! Just wanting to know if anyone has used them to sleeve honda blocks in particular for b series motors and for boost. There located in Flemington (were in Nth Melb and some other place)

see link: (top block is sr20, lower is the b18c)
http://www.engineaction.com/photos.htm

It would appear they know what they are doing with the machining from the pics. They use Darton mid sleeves it looks ike and machine the bores with decent looking torque plates.

As for their engine building the results they have on there for the Honda engines they have built don't seem particularly spectacular. Like the B18C with "very high compression and sleeved block" naking 130kw at the wheels. Thats good, but if it is running "very high compression" to warrant the cost of sleeves then I would expect it to be making more.

[EGB18CT]

yes i see that too grumpy with the 130 kw that was done in the early days tho!

anyway with the sleeves i would inparticlular like to know how a certain company goes about installing them (even from an engeneering point of view as i had studied engineering but gave it up for accounting doh!)

If anyone can do a sleeve job like bensons or ERL over here id be keen to know. Bensons i see has a very nice way of installing and even both companies they way the season there blocks (which i cannot see companies here doing.)

I think in saying that i may go to ERL or Bensons - they have a big demand, do this day in day out and what would be more satisfying is they produce pure race engines for proper race clases (worked on nascar, irl, honda challenges etc..)

Also just a note, i would prefer pushy recommendations to be kept on the "down low" as i dont want this turing into a "im better than you thread". Everyone starts somewhere, to some its all about the money, some its pride, some its the enjoyment of working on a honda etc so peace! ATM my options are open and im keeping my eyes out there.

[grumpy rooster]

Its your money and you have to be happy with what you spend it on. If you want to send it to the US then do so.

Just remember to budget for the shipping costs, the cost of import duty, and GST since the $ value will be well over $1000.

Whoever you choose I'd still recommend going with Dartom mid sleeves. They have an impeccable record.

[EGB18CT]

do rocket ind (VPW here in VIC) sell them blocks in stock height 84.5mm here in aus, as ive got some contacts here in VIC so that is definately an option to? (also are they street registerable)
thanks grumpy

[grumpy rooster]

Yes, they do. If you know someone who buys a bit of stuff from Rocket then get them to give Rocket a call and get a price. Alternatively I could get you a price if you want. It won't be the sort of thing that they would have in stock so you'd have to wait for them to get it in.

As for being registerable, I have no idea. My guess is they won't be stamped appropriately for the RTA/Vic Roads whatever so if you did want to register it you'd have to go through the trouble of getting it stamped etc.

[EGB18CT]

yeh purchasing from VPM wont be a problem, my gf uncle who im close with purchases from them heaps as here into the v8's big time and gets discounts so ill give him a call or pop around so next time hes up to get a price. thanks again.

[fatboyz39]

B20 block, with Golden Eagle Sleeves $3500. Pm if your keen.

[grumpy rooster]

You can get Darton mid sleeves for a bit over $1000. Getting them fitted isn't going to cost another coupla thousand. I know which way I'd go.

[Weq]

Having the engine built here in Oz is not a stupid idea. I am able to source all the parts for you (as could many other people) and then get a reputable engine builder to build it. I would start with THIS (http://www.rocketindustries.com.au/descriptions.php?partno=DA31496801://) block. Its a Dart aluminium block with 84.5mm bores and steel main caps. You also have the option of the B20 block. The most important aspect of that particular block is it is a closed deck design.

My one big problem with what you want to do is your budget. For that power your budget may take a bit of a hammering.

It is a stupid idea? Rocket import these blocks from the US. Pretty funny huh?

There are no reputable honda builders down here. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Im talking a 10 second honda block (NA/FI) that lasts more then a few passes down the quater before being pulled apart. Oh wait, there arnt any. Online runs an american block. Exqizit. American. There are no specialised honda builders in australia. Fullstop. The market is not big enough. If you get your block done here, its done by a generic machining facility. Generic engine builder. The exception here would be small shops like toda. * Check your sources for the Reason *

Yeh sure im going to ruffle a few feathers, but thats life. So much BS being thrown around, but when it comes to put up or shut up, no one can deliver. Look at the sub-10sec list on honda-tech, owned by regluar joe's. And not one shop here can do it.

[EGB18CT]

Weq i can see where your coming from. And what you have said is what i dont want to happen to the motor investing all this time cash and effort only to have a couple passed and pull it a part again. Ive seen threads with the problems you went thru with the d series build and that.

If anyone knows who EXQUZIT/online used for their drag cars sleeves id be keen to know (pm me). (I know a certain builder/s here i aus purchased stuff from ERL but i will not mention too as i may spoil a build etc). If those bigger guys here with even well know workshops cannot tust builders here let alone themselves than i think it will be best for me to get it all from the states. thanks to everyone for their input. cheers.

[ALLMTR996]

Weq i can see where your coming from. And what you have said is what i dont want to happen to the motor investing all this time cash and effort only to have a couple passed and pull it a part again. Ive seen threads with the problems you went thru with the d series build and that.

If anyone knows who EXQUZIT/online used for their drag cars sleeves id be keen to know (pm me). (I know a certain builder/s here i aus purchased stuff from ERL but i will not mention too as i may spoil a build etc). If those bigger guys here with even well know workshops cannot tust builders here let alone themselves than i think it will be best for me to get it all from the states. thanks to everyone for their input. cheers.

The B20 block in EXQIZT was sleeved by Golden Eagle in the States and the engine was built 100% here in Australia by Online Performance and tuned by Rocky@Pac Performance with Dyno Dave.
ALLMTR996

[EGB18CT]

thanks allmtr, is there any particular reason as to why ge was chosen, from what i have read they have very satisfied customers with very little problems, what would the differences be between GE, ERL and bensons?

also one last q. is it open or closed deck? -what i like about the ERL blocks is there like the best of both....

[mrfsport]

RIP OFF




B20 block, with Golden Eagle Sleeves $3500. Pm if your keen.

[mrfsport]

i agree with weg, best thing to do is buy a b20 block off ebay in the US get the seller to ship it to golden eagle and golden eagle can freight it back to you.

Cost of block in the US $500
GOLDEN EAGLES sleeves US$900
shipping US$250

Total cost US$1650 = AUD$1900 lot better than $3500

[ALLMTR996]

It is a stupid idea? Rocket import these blocks from the US. Pretty funny huh?

There are no reputable honda builders down here. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Im talking a 10 second honda block (NA/FI) that lasts more then a few passes down the quater before being pulled apart. Oh wait, there arnt any. Online runs an american block. Exqizit. American. There are no specialised honda builders in australia. Fullstop. The market is not big enough. If you get your block done here, its done by a generic machining facility. Generic engine builder. The exception here would be small shops like toda. * Check your sources for the Reason *

Yeh sure im going to ruffle a few feathers, but thats life. So much BS being thrown around, but when it comes to put up or shut up, no one can deliver. Look at the sub-10sec list on honda-tech, owned by regluar joe's. And not one shop here can do it.http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73514 built in his backyard UNSLEEVED B16a and runs 9's and had alot of help from Online and a few other people.
ALLMTR996

[online]

Yes ALLMTR996 is right, Exqzit's block is a Golden Eagle sleeved block but built here, Our own H22A motor in our Tube DelSol and the Allmotor CRX are both Darton sleeves and sleeved here locally.

CRX-11Z doesn't run sleeves and has gone 9.90, MSTCHF has gone 11.1 with no sleeves, Hypertune has gone 11.4 with no sleeves and these are all B16A's

[fatboyz39]

i agree with weg, best thing to do is buy a b20 block off ebay in the US get the seller to ship it to golden eagle and golden eagle can freight it back to you.

Cost of block in the US $500
GOLDEN EAGLES sleeves US$900
shipping US$250

Total cost US$1650 = AUD$1900 lot better than $3500

just passing on info. if you get it for that much GO FOR IT im not stoping you.

[fatboyz39]

CRX-11Z doesn't run sleeves and has gone 9.90, MSTCHF has gone 11.1 with no sleeves, Hypertune has gone 11.4 with no sleeves and these are all B16A's

Great examples there. It all comes down to the engine builder/setup and tuner. :thumbsup:

[EGB18CT]

The 3500 block there is no chance im paying that when i can get it new cheaper!

ONLINE: which sleeves would you prefer the darton MID here or the GE? (im guessing the GE since that car is newer the blue eg if im correct?)

if i do get it done in the stated ill prob get a block and head sleeved and ported there and hopefully this can get done by may-july as ive got a family frien going over bringing a container back of chev and old school v8 parts (as hes a restorer) so i could pop it in the container which would come in very handy.

[ALLMTR996]

The 3500 block there is no chance im paying that when i can get it new cheaper!

ONLINE: which sleeves would you prefer the darton MID here or the GE? (im guessing the GE since that car is newer the blue eg if im correct?)

if i do get it done in the stated ill prob get a block and head sleeved and ported there and hopefully this can get done by may-july as ive got a family frien going over bringing a container back of chev and old school v8 parts (as hes a restorer) so i could pop it in the container which would come in very handy.
Darton/Bensons/ERL/Golden Eagle/Import Builders/Rocket Motorsports/+ many more in the states that I cant even remember that do this type of work I have seen Golden Eagle/Darton/ERL here with engines someone has built locally and really there is no real difference in terms of the sleeves the ERL and GE where done in the states and the darton block was done here in sydney,good luck with your build.
ALLMTR996

[EGB18CT]

for the bigger hp cars were they open or closed deck blocks?

also> anyone know/can recommend a good machine shop in melb for sleeving and head work (must have a serdi machine and be able to cnc the head)

[Sexc86]

dont bother shipping your stuff to the usa... just buy a complete built shortblock... sean at ERL sell these strait off the shelf guarenteed..

[EGB18CT]

yeh ill see what the local machine shops that top race teams use have to offer otherwise ill prolly go thu bensons or laskey racing

[ALLMTR996]

for the bigger hp cars were they open or closed deck blocks?

also> anyone know/can recommend a good machine shop in melb for sleeving and head work (must have a serdi machine and be able to cnc the head)

From the research i have done for the engine builder that does alot of Honda's here there is no cyl head shop doing CNC porting yet in Australia and there are a few in the states M2R and RLZ being the main two big HP Honda guys.Big HP cars use closed deck blocks.
ALLMTR996

[EGB18CT]

yeh it will most likely be a closed deck block so that part is pretty much confirmed as well as a few other things os my researchis getting somewhere!

[Slaz]

There are cnc porters of honda heads here but the cost is not worthwhile, ive had a block sleeved here with Darton mids and ive had 1 done by Darton themselves, a few years ago i would have worried about having it done here but there are a few good shops pumping them out now on all different engines.

Adrian @ Toda uses who i think is Sydney's best machinist and i would start here as the job is top notch and freight and cost involved is nothing compared to sending to the states not to mention if that block number is already on paper as being in the vehicle, will save you hassle of having to get everything sorted before even getting it on the street without being torn a new one if your pulled over for whatever reason.

As for your head, M2R and RlZ do have the rep, but also have the rep of taking months and not delivering on time, esp RLZ with them supplying and supporting Skunk Racing, Alainz and portflow are very good at their turn arounds and for 1500u/s you have a complete head ready to go that will more then be able to produce what you want from it, a before mentioned 11sec 1.6 honda has NO HEAD PORTING what so ever, were not talking n/a here and porting isnt a must on an engine which is fed its intake, not drawing it in.

Do your research, shop around, look at results and reps of people you throw your money at, and good luck with the build. :thumbsup:

[grumpy rooster]

Adrian @ Toda uses who i think is Sydney's best machinist and i would start here as the job is top notch.........

Who is the machinist?

[Benson]

Thats what i want to know as well

[pwr2w8]

i doubt he will tell you this

[fatboyz39]

why not, ???

[EGB18CT]

if you dont want to say who the machinist is pm me...

also head porting is vital to both force fed and n/a. It all works on different pressure systems in the head. Also those civic that run 11's are stripped to the bone (like crx 11z) running full lexan windows etc... Im after reliability in a quality buil thats also capable of running 9.8s down the track if it goes that far but definate low 10's anyway that not much of a concern as i know illget there with the right tuner/builder and part selection. Im building a car that is on par to the best street/ sfwd type standards in the states so it all had to be carefully planned out.

anyway thanks to ur replys guys..

[online]

if you dont want to say who the machinist is pm me...

also head porting is vital to both force fed and n/a. It all works on different pressure systems in the head. Also those civic that run 11's are stripped to the bone (like crx 11z) running full lexan windows etc... Im after reliability in a quality buil thats also capable of running 9.8s down the track if it goes that far but definate low 10's anyway that not much of a concern as i know illget there with the right tuner/builder and part selection. Im building a car that is on par to the best street/ sfwd type standards in the states so it all had to be carefully planned out.

anyway thanks to ur replys guys..

The EG CRX MSTCHF which runs 11.1@131 is a full streeter, it has full leather interior, Stereo and B16A. CRX-11Z is a full racecar and now runs 9.93@147 . running 9's is actually quite easy but you do need a very good chassis setup on top of a good tune up to do it.. The thing alot of people don't see with the yanks is that they are not scared to run 50psi and bang engines in order to go fast..

[Slaz]

Im not going to disclose who the machinist is as he only deals with certain individuals and or builders as does not want to deal with the ever growing number of wankers that build cars, he does not advertise and has no need to, as it is he is not the quickest at turning parts around nor the cheapest, but the job is spot on and he is very clued up with honda's now due to the relationship with Adrian @ Toda especially sleeving as Darton does do a few things in house that arnt on the install instructions and that was only figured out by inspecting my block when i got it back, he also has experience installing ERL Girdles, as i have 1 fitted my engine.

So in saying that, i can recommend speaking to Adrian about your machining requirements as opposed to sending the block state side, as the cost will be less, and along with dealing with someone who knows honda's, be able to steer you in the right direction as they've done it before unlike yourself i assume.

I assure you this civic running 11's is far from stripped and spun most of the track and your wrong regarding the importance of porting in turbo and n/a applications, not saying porting wont benefit the engine but its not as important hence suggested what i did in my earlier post.

I think that your budget will be lucky to cover all parts and machining and if your serious about running high 9's, you'll have to put alot of work into your chassis set up including weight of the vehicle as thats how most low ET cars getting around now have got the times they have, its not with massive power.

Good luck with your build bud, i look forward to the updates.

[TAKEN]

Im not going to disclose who the machinist is as he only deals with certain individuals and or builders as does not want to deal with the ever growing number of wankers that build cars, he does not advertise and has no need to, as it is he is not the quickest at turning parts around nor the cheapest, but the job is spot on and he is very clued up with honda's now due to the relationship with Adrian @ Toda especially sleeving as Darton does do a few things in house that arnt on the install instructions and that was only figured out by inspecting my block when i got it back, he also has experience installing ERL Girdles, as i have 1 fitted my engine.

So in saying that, i can recommend speaking to Adrian about your machining requirements as opposed to sending the block state side, as the cost will be less, and along with dealing with someone who knows honda's, be able to steer you in the right direction as they've done it before unlike yourself i assume.

I assure you this civic running 11's is far from stripped and spun most of the track and your wrong regarding the importance of porting in turbo and n/a applications, not saying porting wont benefit the engine but its not as important hence suggested what i did in my earlier post.

I think that your budget will be lucky to cover all parts and machining and if your serious about running high 9's, you'll have to put alot of work into your chassis set up including weight of the vehicle as thats how most low ET cars getting around now have got the times they have, its not with massive power.

Good luck with your build bud, i look forward to the updates.

Has this guy sleeved a very big hp Honda engine yet, i only ask this because i haven't heard of Adrian ever building a big HP Honda capable of running a 9sec pass.. I like the idea of having a block sleeved here in OZ but when i spoke to Golden Eagle last about my B18C they said they will give me a lifetime warranty on sleeves dropping or cracking which is good to know.

It's one thing to know how to put a street motor together and another to build a full race motor. a wheel spinning 11sec car is a street not a racecar.

[grumpy rooster]

If you guys think machining a Honda engine is a black art, try a Peugeot engine with removable sleeves. I went through 4 so called good machinists until I found the right guys. And they build Ferrari and Lotus engines for what was then Nations Cup cars.

[pwr2w8]

Has this guy sleeved a very big hp Honda engine yet, i only ask this because i haven't heard of Adrian ever building a big HP Honda capable of running a 9sec pass.. I like the idea of having a block sleeved here in OZ but when i spoke to Golden Eagle last about my B18C they said they will give me a lifetime warranty on sleeves dropping or cracking which is good to know.

It's one thing to know how to put a street motor together and another to build a full race motor. a wheel spinning 11sec car is a street not a racecar.

i believe adrian has the capacity to build a 9sec honda, it just comes down to the budget of his customer. MSCHIF was built in a backyard a tuned by CRD, if he lightend his car and set up his chassis better, he could be in the 9's also. Its not rocket science to build quick honda's its how big your wallet is.

[TAKEN]

i believe adrian has the capacity to build a 9sec honda, it just comes down to the budget of his customer. MSCHIF was built in a backyard a tuned by CRD, if he lightend his car and set up his chassis better, he could be in the 9's also. Its not rocket science to build quick honda's its how big your wallet is.

MSTCHF was built by CRD's head mechanic/engine builder who is a relation.. big difference!! i would like to see some people try to run 9's just to see how hard it really is to set up a good chassis.. I don't doubt that someone like Adrian is capable of building a engine to run 9's, but this thread is about block sleeving and if someone has not built a 9sec engine yet then how is anyone supposed to have full faith in what they are buying.

[Weq]

Im not going to disclose who the machinist is as he only deals with certain individuals and or builders as does not want to deal with the ever growing number of wankers that build cars, he does not advertise and has no need to, as it is he is not the quickest at turning parts around nor the cheapest, but the job is spot on and he is very clued up with honda's now due to the relationship with Adrian @ Toda especially sleeving as Darton does do a few things in house that arnt on the install instructions and that was only figured out by inspecting my block when i got it back, he also has experience installing ERL Girdles, as i have 1 fitted my engine.

So in saying that, i can recommend speaking to Adrian about your machining requirements as opposed to sending the block state side, as the cost will be less, and along with dealing with someone who knows honda's, be able to steer you in the right direction as they've done it before unlike yourself i assume.

I assure you this civic running 11's is far from stripped and spun most of the track and your wrong regarding the importance of porting in turbo and n/a applications, not saying porting wont benefit the engine but its not as important hence suggested what i did in my earlier post.

I think that your budget will be lucky to cover all parts and machining and if your serious about running high 9's, you'll have to put alot of work into your chassis set up including weight of the vehicle as thats how most low ET cars getting around now have got the times they have, its not with massive power.

Good luck with your build bud, i look forward to the updates.

What a contridiction.

First you say Australia has the capacity of building such a block, but then go onto say that it only because of what was stolen(??) from a built US block.

Then you go onto say that that its such a black art that its so secret and if u want it done, you have to nuthug an arrogent pr*ck. **e240 Edit: I told you to check your sources - But I don't disagree that while we do have some very good engine builders, Australia overall does lag behind in some of the build capabilities, even to the SEA countries.**. All this secrecy is what makes australia so bland and so outragiously lagging behind the rest of the world. Over in PR you have 9second hondas running cast pistons and stock sleeves.

Next you say that it will be quicker then importing a block from the states (which you already recognise as being superior in every way to anything an aussie machinest can build). But you comment that this machinest is soo special and sooooo clued up, that he will take his time and

First you say it will be cheaper and quicker in australia (which is bullsh*t) then you say that he is "not the quickest at turning parts over" cause he take so much care. And you say his current budget will not cover machining.

Thanks for proving all my points. First that the only high-po capable blocks are from the states. These guys are the innovators. All australian builder can do is copy, and copy badly. You dont see a Adrian spec re-inforced billet girdle, do you?? You dont see dynodave superdeck 3 sleeves. I think the closest company downunder that does anything to contribute to the world wide development of honda's is Hypertune with there super sexy CNC machines and computer mandrel benders. I know these guys supply Full-race with a decent amount of gear.

I guess my last point is, instead of supporting the copy-cats, support the innovators. Support the guys who have the repuation. Would you run a xs-power manifold on your 9second beast? Sure it might do the job, but chances are you will be left holding your balls when it doesnt.

(PS. I cant wait for a shop to use an alias (Slaz??) and try and de-bunk me. Just like most of ozh, no one has the balls to stand up.)
**e240 Comment: Slaz is not an alias to any shop. I know cause I've met him and bought stuff off him**

[Weq]

MSTCHF was built by CRD's head mechanic/engine builder who is a relation.. big difference!! i would like to see some people try to run 9's just to see how hard it really is to set up a good chassis.. I don't doubt that someone like Adrian is capable of building a engine to run 9's, but this thread is about block sleeving and if someone has not built a 9sec engine yet then how is anyone supposed to have full faith in what they are buying.

+1

All talk baby. All talk. Chassis setup is another good point. We have seen a few honda's trap enough for very low 10's, maybe even 9's (american built blocks). But chassis is never there to support it.

[Weq]

http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39157&hilit=9second

a SOHC running faster then what any shop here can do. Talk talk talk. Built in a guys backyard.

[EGB18CT]

weq, pm sent dude... anway i would like to know what machine shops are used here in the best of the best australian builds? im not considering running stock sleeves and a half arsed build.

[grumpy rooster]

Weq

A major factor here in Australia is the cost compared to the Yanks and availability of parts. It is so much easier over there to do everything. And remember, their poulation is so much bigger than ours so they are always going to have many many more decent cars. This all leads to noone really giving it a proper crack here in Aus other than the Online/EXQZIT car and Online's own Del Sol.

Since your picking cars out how about a non Honda like Robert Benk's "Backyarder" Corolla. Mid 9's with a 1.6L engine. :)

The US mentality is to throw a bundle of cash at a car with all the good bits and hope it goes fast. Here in Aus we do much more "in-house" R&D and spend our money much more wisely. I much prefer our attitude as it does mean that we end up with much more variety in setups. The follow the leader "bling parts" method is boring. Of course the basics of an engine setup will be the same but its the finer details that make the difference.

Unfortunately the Honda scene here in Aus is dominated by the "follow the leader" mentality. Noone seems to want to be different. Its the same old same old. Thats what is holding us back. There are some who are going outside the square but not many.

Look at the aftermarket ECU's available here. The choice the average Joe has here is much greater than what is in the US. Thats why a number of our Australian ECU companies have taken up the challenge and started distributing there with much success.

So what has this to do with machinists. Well the same applies. We have many great machinists here that have worked on engines of all types, including those that are similar in nature to a Honda engine. But, the attitude showing here is that they can't machine a Honda engine because it is so "special". Now, the fact they may have machined a 1000hp NA BBC in the past that has used Darton sleeves should give you some idea they know what they are doing. And there are tonnes of these guys around. The only potential problem is with the torque plate. Maybe they don't have the right one and don't want to make up one to suit.

Give it a few years and I think things will be very different though in all respects.

[TAKEN]

I think you will find that the cars who trap 140+ already run 9's, everyone else is quite a way off that.


+1

All talk baby. All talk. Chassis setup is another good point. We have seen a few honda's trap enough for very low 10's, maybe even 9's (american built blocks). But chassis is never there to support it.

[Sexc86]

weqsta...

funny you talk about hypertune man! i picked up a autosalon mag in a shop today.. flicked through the pages and found a black ek civic hatch.. running 500whp from a 1600cc b16a running 11.4, was the doods company car, has anyone ever seen this?

[Slaz]

Try and give someone advice on a proposed build and suggest somewhere to start with the good experience ive had with my engine and all the wankers come out with off topic rubbish as usual.

Starting from the top, ONLINE makes the perfect point in that an engine that makes good reliable power in street trim is an 11sec car and then gutted with abit of thought put into the chassis is a 9 sec car, going along with what ive said every post in this thread.

TAKEN, any machinist not willing to warrant his work isnt one worth going too and companies like Darton wouldnt be as big as they are now if there product couldnt be installed and reliable by any suitably tooled up machinist. Also what do you consider a "full race motor" one that runs nines?? Put a "Race Motor" in a un setup, under tyred, chassis with stock driveshafts, and you get a car that is not launched as hard as it could have been and spins down the track and pulls an 11 or so.

Pwr2w8 your spot on, money talks, and there arnt many big boys in this country, online have built the best chassis we've seen but they havnt exactly had impressive motors in either of their cars yet they have the records so good on them, they spent the money! It isnt rocket science but money, and if you've ever been to the states and been around any form of motorsports, its there unlike anything you've seen here, even touring cars.

Danny built MSTCHF 's motor and Hypertune did everything around it, its a very good set-up and well built motor that came from previous experience from Adrian @ Toda and Mark @ Hypertune, Danny got alot of info and advice from Adrian as he worked @ Croydon before going out on his own, you dont need a lab nor workshop to strap an engine together yet everyone goes on about "backyard" boys.

WEQ im far from a shop you peanut, nor have i ever been involved or worked in the car retail industry, though i have been in the scene for many years, consider myself having a decent amount mechanical knowledge coming from an aviation background.

I see you like assuming things or taking things the wrong way as you've quoted me as saying things i havnt.

I had my block sleeved near 3 years ago when not many had sleeved engine's ( Honda's that is ) and through a us contact had it done cheaper including freight then the cost of the sleeves themselves, so wouldnt i take advantage of such an offer??

As with anything in life, a job done for the first time is not going to be as good or as quick as if it is done repeatedly and one learns from what they are trying to do.

In this case being the honda block, we examined mine and small things were noted that were done different and made for an overall better job, maybe these steps are now included in the install instructions, i dont know, but no where did i say it was superior or a reason to only send your block to GE or Darton as it isnt, as Grumpy states, big HP motors of all types have had sleeves done here with no probs, and my next block would be done here without question and he has and makes the torque plates for any engine he machines, otherwise doesnt do it.

As for nut hugging an arrogent pr*ck, im not one to comment on your taste in men but im sure if like most normal people who want a service from someone, they enquire and if there not happy with the price,service ,or the individual they are dealing with, GO ELSEWHERE you wanker, its pretty simple!

The reason this shop isnt the quickest nor the cheapest is because he is good and has work hanging out his arse and a quality job is always maintained, but think it would still be cheaper then sending it to the states, but in saying that if there was ever a time to do so, its now given the exchange rate and read my post properly you twit, his budget will not cover ALL PARTS AND MACHINING as i posted!

Let alone what he has already listed in parts, but add to that machining,porting, fuel system, thermal management,intercooler,piping and exhaust and he'll soon be needing to add to that budget of his.

As for Australian parts in the scene, its not as easy for someone here to produce a worthwhile product and then be able to supply the demand of the states, most here are happy doing the work using parts available and the numbers and budgets are just not here to justify it so why would they, they'd have to invest so much money and time getting it to take off o.s and the capital isnt here like the U.S or Japan.

Mark and the crew at Hypertune are pumping out some good products,cars and there fabrication is A1, they have done and do all my work and i have and will recommend them to anyway looking for that service, ive known Mark for near 10yrs now as we were engineers together at Qantas, i believe they also did a small amount of work on your d series John?

Grumpy sums it up well with his last post and trust me, alot of racers over there running there stock sleeved, cast piston, 50psi d series in a 600-700kg frames also end up holding their balls when it shits after a few runs but they dont care, in the mean time fellow d series fans like yourself think there the coolest. :thumbsup:

Sexc86, the car you speak of is Mark @ Hypertunes civic, im sure he wont mind me stating but this engine with its power figures is a stock sleeved, non ported B16A and run that time with near no effort placed into the chassis with stock drivshafts and as far as weight reduction goes, they pulled the rear and passenger seats out. :confused: So id be confident that this engine in a light chassis would cut low 10's or 9's no problem, so seeing its stock sleeved and no porting, is it not now considered a race motor???

Ill finish by saying that Marks engine is at the same machinist now getting machining done for its freshen up :eek: so he must do something right.

I stand by people and services ive used and trust which is all i tried to do at the beginning.

Weq, you've come across as nothing but a wanker that loves what he does, so ill leave you to it.

EGB18CT, once again ill say do your homework, shop around and good luck with your build. :thumbsup:

[TAKEN]

Do all people running 11's think 9's is as easy as a chassis setup and removing weight.. you can have the greatest car in the world and go backwards if you have nothing upstairs.. I would love to see any of you actually attempt to run a 9sec pass and then tell me how easy it is.. Don't blame it on money..

[online]

My suggestion to you would be to speak to a few shops, get a few ideas and go from there. If you want to do the build yourself you will experience hiccups just like we all have experienced in the past with something of such big HP. It's all a learning curve. No one is going to tell your their secrets, whether it be here or in the states. Doesn't look like this thread will be too helpful to you.. Too many guru's around here.. Good luck with it, another 9sec car is what this country needs. :thumbsup:

[Slaz]

Im no guru and quicker cars in this country would always be a good thing, but yes TAKEN, i believe alot of 11sec cars mentioned with the power they produce if they put more money and time setting up there chassis and removing weight would be in that bracket, but not many people want to render their cars streetless in the process either unlike most of the quicker cars getting around.

I also believe that if someone with an open cheque book went looking for a car and engine that would pull 9's, it could be all catered for here, but the money, popularity, demand, and competition just isnt here, though i think it will be in time.

[B20NA]

ive just registered on this site to give my opinion.

the machinist that slaz is taking about has just finished my block and i can tell you weg that this guy will shit on 85% of the US machinists. He is a guru and has got work coming out of his arse and he doesnt advertise, doesn't need to. When he machines blocks he makes sure he has done all his homework and he makes all torque plates to suit each block.

I have seen golden eagle blocks and i saw the block my machinest has sleeved and ill tell you there identical.

He is expensive, likes to take his time, but what you get is top quality.
Now the reason why the US has quick street and drag cars is because the honda market is huge there and they have the R&D, as for in Oz we have a smaller market with people that don't like to spend the dollars to go quicker.

Weg ill tell you that our motors are more reliable than the yanks, they get the numbers because they make a few passes with extreme boost and blow there motor and have another 1 ready to go in the next day.

As for this machinist he use to do all of CRD work and look what they achived in drag racing.

Weg don't think that were not capable of building tough engines its just people dont spend the money.

Im hoping my B20 will make good hp as ive done alot of homework, firstly my machinist is the best probably in australia, the guy that is going to port my head in australia has ported some of the USA top honda n/a drag cars and he is also a guru, we have the best tuners i believe, CRD, TODA, the only think were lacking is chassis setup, but we will get there.
Im hoping on making aleast 260hp with my B20/Vtec setup/

Slaz what you say makes alot of sense , dont worry what others say just do your own thing and prove these guys knocking you wrong.

my 2 cents

[Benson]

At least 260hp for a B20? Damn thats a big build.

I don't believe Toda is the best tuner this country has to offer. Had some past dealings with his tuned and its pretty much average. Flat spots blah blah blah. thats a 14sec motor let alone a 11 sec motor

But back to the topic, who is this machinist, i want my b20 to get sleeved as well? If he's work is of good quality, why not spread his good name to the public forum of ozhonda? I'm pretty sure he'll be a valuable contact for engine building. PM me if you don't want to disclose on this thread

[Slaz]

As mentioned earlier Benson, he doesnt deal with the public and likes it that way and i dont blame him, there's more tools around the car scene then a Snap On truck!

How many other businesses do you deal with that contract out work and make a cut, thats business bud and businesses are their to make money and a lively hood for their owners, you know where a good job can be had so why not enquire like i stated early on in this thread trying to be helpful to someone doing a build.

[B20NA]

benson even if i told you who the machinist is, but i cant tell you or others as he doesn't want off the street work, he will knock you back SIMPLE!!!.

All i can say is let the car's do the talking on the track, 1 car that does this is hi-power racing, why because he know's his shit.






At least 260hp for a B20? Damn thats a big build.

I don't believe Toda is the best tuner this country has to offer. Had some past dealings with his tuned and its pretty much average. Flat spots blah blah blah. thats a 14sec motor let alone a 11 sec motor

But back to the topic, who is this machinist, i want my b20 to get sleeved as well? If he's work is of good quality, why not spread his good name to the public forum of ozhonda? I'm pretty sure he'll be a valuable contact for engine building. PM me if you don't want to disclose on this thread

[Benson]

All good mate.

Thats right.. the track is a good indication of the true hp. When i mean track its 1/4 mile not circuit.

But from what i've heard Hi power racing get his engines from overseas pre-built?

[EGB18CT]

just spoken to my gf's uncle who is heavily in the v8 drag scene, aparently there is a really good machine shop in braeside in melbourne, think the head machinist/owners name was steve (sorry forgot his name) has full cnc machinery, does heaps of work for the v8 supercars guys etc. anyone heard of such a place? also a good shop in adelaide that does cnc heads?

[SPEEDCORE]

There are plenty of places all over australia with cnc machinery dude. The issue in my opinion would actually be finding one with programs for honda heads.

[B20NA]

benson he gets his engines done by his uncle in singapore, but what does that matter, its the tuning that is the brains and what makes the hp of a good built engine RIGHT.




All good mate.

Thats right.. the track is a good indication of the true hp. When i mean track its 1/4 mile not circuit.

But from what i've heard Hi power racing get his engines from overseas pre-built?

[Samo]

benson he gets his engines done by his uncle in singapore, but what does that matter, its the tuning that is the brains and what makes the hp of a good built engine RIGHT.

and wat alot of ppl dont believe is his b20crx use a chipped ecu with vafc2 (wat 99% of ppl consider it as rubbish) and its is road tuned

last time he called me he sed they are getting a dyno, so look out for future projects

[pwr2w8]

have you found anybody suitable or you getting this done in the US.
Ive heard blueprint manufacturing are also good.







just spoken to my gf's uncle who is heavily in the v8 drag scene, aparently there is a really good machine shop in braeside in melbourne, think the head machinist/owners name was steve (sorry forgot his name) has full cnc machinery, does heaps of work for the v8 supercars guys etc. anyone heard of such a place? also a good shop in adelaide that does cnc heads?

[EGB18CT]

nope undecided as yet, waiting to get some time off to speak to some shops here in Melb, also most likely going to Calder this sat (big drag meet on) speak to few of my gf's uncles friends see what shops are around and also get this contact no for the shop in braeside (aparently employs over 20 staff, full machine shop, churns out proper race cars etc..) Ill try get it done here cos i already have a good motor, if not then usa it is.

[grumpy rooster]

Take it to Pavtek.

If they can build a Top Fuel engine they can machine a Honda engine. List of costs HERE (http://www.pavtek.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3&Itemid=12).

[EGB18CT]

thanks grumpy, ill check that place out some of the cars on their pages look very familiar (steves vk) and the ss ute. Anyway ill see what the have to offer.

[EGB18CT]

ok i have chosen a block at last...

Going with a Dart block (closed deck bla bla bla) now which bore to get as i would really like it to be 84mm not 84.5 (just for future machining in mind for rebuilds etc..) now they have it in 81 or 82mm standard block or in 84.5mm block, is it recommended to get the 81/82mm block and bore it out to 84mm or get the 84.5mm?

[krogoth]

sory egb18ct, i cant be of help

just subscribing!

good luck

[wynode]

sory egb18ct, i cant be of help

just subscribing!

good luck
Off topic but for future reference you can click "Thread Tools -> Subscribe to thread" at the top of this thread to subscribe in future :thumbsup:

[TODA AU]

ok i have chosen a block at last...

Going with a Dart block (closed deck bla bla bla) now which bore to get as i would really like it to be 84mm not 84.5 (just for future machining in mind for rebuilds etc..) now they have it in 81 or 82mm standard block or in 84.5mm block, is it recommended to get the 81/82mm block and bore it out to 84mm or get the 84.5mm?

Get the 84.5mm tall deck block. :thumbsup:

[grumpy rooster]

I agree with Adrian.

[EGB18CT]

Do pauter make suitable rods for the tall deck and all that? dont know much about the tall deck option. If i was to go with 84.5mm would future rebuilds be safe at possible 85mm if it needs to be re bored. This will not be a street car too.

Hopefully i can save enough and maybe get a dart head or the new endyn heads but there $$$

[EGB18CT]

its ok found what i was after (rod stroke details etc), just do pauter make the rods for this application? (tall deck)

[Slaz]

Yes, Pauter will make a long rod for the tall deck, not sure if special order, but depending where you get them from they wont charge you any more, just be a wait involved.

[EGB18CT]

sweet as.

Just another question now as im getting closer to putting the list together, what are your thoughts on running a higher compression on these turbo motors?

I know most run cp in 9:1 9:5, i was thinking of 10:5 - 11cp, with boost fairly high 30psi, making 600+hp c16 fuel (run 140-145+mph) what are your thoughts on this in terms of reliability, power, and performance etc?

[TODA AU]

Talk to a few piston manufacturers,
If you're getting the rods made, see if you can get the even longer with the pin moved a little higher.
That is instead of an installed or compression height of 30mm, why not use a modern box section piston with a C/H of say 27mm...
This will help you get more top end & allow you to use a longer stroke without compromsing rod ratio.
Well, that's my 5 cents

[TODA AU]

I know most run cp in 9:1 9:5, i was thinking of 10:5 - 11cp, with boost fairly high 30psi, making 600+hp c16 fuel (run 140-145+mph) what are your thoughts on this in terms of reliability, power, and performance etc?

Honda ran 9.5:1 in their 80's F1 engines...
There was a reason for this.;)
If you run 11.0:1 & 30psi, it is likley the project will end in tears.
It's not an impossible ask, but it's not an easy one to tune.
Plus, C16 is lazy fuel,
You'll need approx 7~8 deg more timing than you'd use on pump gas,
& instead of say 11.2:1 A/F you're tuning for 12.2~12.5:1
Otherwise it wont make power at high rpm.
FWIW Elf Turbo max is better.:thumbsup:

[pwr2w8]

9:1 comp will be the best, also note comp can change with your deck height and gasket, so best will be 9:1

[WhiteAP1]

I have been dealing with <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> since November 2006, and I strongly recommend that you dont go anywhere near them!!!!!!!!!!!

I dropped a valve in November 2006 and my car is STILL off the road. I took my car to <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> for repairs, they outsourced <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details>for the machine work. After this build I think that relationship is pretty much over. Due to severe bore scuffing I was encouraged to go with Darton sleeves. They repaired the head and assembled the engine with a few upgraded internals.

During the build, for 3 months they were telling me the compression ratio of the TODA 87.5mm pistons I bought, had a compression ratio in the 16’s,and could not be used, but they'll see if theres anything they can do.They were also concered that deck hight would be a serious issue. Mind you this is a mass produced product built specifically for the F20, how the Fuk could it be so off. After finally getting a hold of the piston specs and emailing them to ***** (<E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details>) all of a sudden they had figured out the issue,and the pistons were 12.3:1 and there was enough clearance, as indicated by TODA. They blamed it on an apprentice miscalculating. You think after so many years in the business they’d double check the first time they got it wrong instead of wasting so much god damn time.

After waiting and waiting and waiting, my car was finally ready in mid September 2007. I paid up in full and drove off. I drove just as instructed and a few weeks later a loud tapping noise developed in the engine bay. I took it back as soon as I heard it ( early October 2007)Turns out the center two pistons had been slapping against the block and had caused more damage requiring the sleeves to be repaired and the pistons replaced.

I was assured everything would be taken care of under warranty, and I should have my car back mid January 2008. I called up after the Holiday break and apart from the engine being removed and torn down, NO work had been carried out. I spoke to <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> to enquire as to why this was, I was then informed that <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details>is refusing to make any repairs unless they are paid for any further work carried out. They were absolutely certain that they carried out all repairs and upgrades to spec the first time and they were not at fault. Therefore they would require payment if the damage was to be repaired

I put it to <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details>, that if they had built the engine, and <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> only physically put it back in the car, who’s fault was it??? Their reply was “we don’t know what caused the piston slap, or who’s fault it was, we just know it wasn’t ours.” The engine is currently being examined by a third, independent engineer to pin point the failure. <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> has said if we can prove they were at fault, they will make an insurance claim and then make the necessary repairs. I have serious doubts however that after the engineer report things will go so smoothly.

They are a pack of dinosaurs who are too used to working on push rod V8s. I wouldn’t trust them with any car whatsoever. They are slack, have a very poor business ethic and havn’t the slightest clue when it comes to customer service. <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> has offered to pay for all parts, all <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> has to do is donate their labor to repair my engine. They outright refused to co-operate and will not take even the slightest bit of responsibility.

I have forked payment in full even though the build went $2,000 over the original quote. I still don’t have what I paid for, my car is still sitting in chasers workshop while months pass by. <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> should at least, from a customer service point of view, take up <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> offer and make the appropriate repairs. I am EXTREAMLY disappointed with their work and do not recommend them to anyone. Advice to all, stay the bloody hell away from them!!!!!!!

[WhiteAP1]

Negative light my ass, Thats exatly what happened. Why should these pricks go nameless. You should allow ppl to know so the same doesnt happen to them. Its not as if they can do anything legally. Its my opinion and recall of events!

The thread was created to find out about the experiences of those who had dealt with a certain workshop. I am posting those dealings.

[EGB18CT]

thanks whiteAP1 now i know to stay away - ive pretty much found some better places anyhows,

TODA..

so u recommend staying 9.5:1, thats what many in the states run, although it as u would be aware its hard to see what cp the big teams run on their car, i had a suggestion made that the cp bump up to around the mid 10's - Which i was a bit worried for a big hp motor (this is gonna be a special motor with lots of research)

well overall the dart tall deck will be a definate but is it possible to make one to 84mm instead of 84.5? they come around high 83 untouched from the factory. just if i need to rebuild i can then go out to 84.5.

[EGB18CT]

also pauter or carillos for boost for the tall deck option?

[TODA AU]

/\ Yes...
9.5:1 C/R is not that low comp for a turbo motor.
Realistically it's quite high, especially when compared to OEM turbo engines.
Idealy, you would run a flat top piston & modify the chambers to get the C/R right.
(That's a lot of work though)

Re rods, Pauter, Carrillo, Crower & Cunningham are all excellent products.
They will all produce a rod to suit your application.
Hope it works out for you. :)

[e240]

Don't you "my ass" me or I'll kick your ass for you. You want to share your experience fine. I'm here to protect the interest of the forum.

Your post and experience are untouched except for names...People can PM you if they want the name.


Negative light my ass, Thats exatly what happened. Why should these pricks go nameless. You should allow ppl to know so the same doesnt happen to them. Its not as if they can do anything legally. Its my opinion and recall of events!

The thread was created to find out about the experiences of those who had dealt with a certain workshop. I am posting those dealings.

[EGB18CT]

kool thanks toda 9:5 sounds good, for the had im thinking of going .5mm over and either a toda or ferrera package.

also are roller rockers elimminating vtec worth it? im thinking of going down this path?

thanks guys.

[TODA AU]

kool thanks toda 9:5 sounds good, for the had im thinking of going .5mm over and either a toda or ferrera package.

also are roller rockers elimminating vtec worth it? im thinking of going down this path?

thanks guys.

I forgot to add,
Don't worry too much about oversizes with the DART block,
As the sleeves are replacable. :thumbsup:

Re .5mm over, with 84mm+ bore, +0.5 or even +1.0mm works well.
You'll need to sort the porting out to match the larger valve size.
+0.5mm can re-use OEM seat in head.
+1.0mm you'll likley need new seats.

I'm not a fan of the US/NZ method of eliminating Vtec as I can't see the logic in turning a B-Series into an SR20.
Also, if this engine is going to see the street, it could be a bad idea.

[EGB18CT]

Yeh, i knew it the Dart had replacable sleeves and it was closed deck so one of the reasons i wanted it along with others...

Motors not really going to see the street as the turbo set up that im thinking of using will be a bit to hardcore so to speak and the placement of it will be difficult to filter the air etc.. this will mostly be a track baby - so im not afraid to have an out there setup.

[whtcrx]

I know people in Adelaide and Sydney I would use as machinists but not in Melbourne. Ask Andy (AK Motorworks) who he uses. Or better still, get him to build it.

If it was me I would be using Darton mid sleeves or the Darton aluminium block and doing it all here in Oz.


Who would you be suggesting for SA?

[Mitchman]

I have been dealing with <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> since November 2006, and I strongly recommend that you dont go anywhere near them!!!!!!!!!!!

I dropped a valve in November 2006 and my car is STILL off the road. I took my car to <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> for repairs, they outsourced <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details>for the machine work. After this build I think that relationship is pretty much over. Due to severe bore scuffing I was encouraged to go with Darton sleeves. They repaired the head and assembled the engine with a few upgraded internals.

During the build, for 3 months they were telling me the compression ratio of the TODA 87.5mm pistons I bought, had a compression ratio in the 16’s,and could not be used, but they'll see if theres anything they can do.They were also concered that deck hight would be a serious issue. Mind you this is a mass produced product built specifically for the F20, how the Fuk could it be so off. After finally getting a hold of the piston specs and emailing them to ***** (<E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details>) all of a sudden they had figured out the issue,and the pistons were 12.3:1 and there was enough clearance, as indicated by TODA. They blamed it on an apprentice miscalculating. You think after so many years in the business they’d double check the first time they got it wrong instead of wasting so much god damn time.

After waiting and waiting and waiting, my car was finally ready in mid September 2007. I paid up in full and drove off. I drove just as instructed and a few weeks later a loud tapping noise developed in the engine bay. I took it back as soon as I heard it ( early October 2007)Turns out the center two pistons had been slapping against the block and had caused more damage requiring the sleeves to be repaired and the pistons replaced.

I was assured everything would be taken care of under warranty, and I should have my car back mid January 2008. I called up after the Holiday break and apart from the engine being removed and torn down, NO work had been carried out. I spoke to <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> to enquire as to why this was, I was then informed that <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details>is refusing to make any repairs unless they are paid for any further work carried out. They were absolutely certain that they carried out all repairs and upgrades to spec the first time and they were not at fault. Therefore they would require payment if the damage was to be repaired

I put it to <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details>, that if they had built the engine, and <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> only physically put it back in the car, who’s fault was it??? Their reply was “we don’t know what caused the piston slap, or who’s fault it was, we just know it wasn’t ours.” The engine is currently being examined by a third, independent engineer to pin point the failure. <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> has said if we can prove they were at fault, they will make an insurance claim and then make the necessary repairs. I have serious doubts however that after the engineer report things will go so smoothly.

They are a pack of dinosaurs who are too used to working on push rod V8s. I wouldn’t trust them with any car whatsoever. They are slack, have a very poor business ethic and havn’t the slightest clue when it comes to customer service. <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> has offered to pay for all parts, all <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> has to do is donate their labor to repair my engine. They outright refused to co-operate and will not take even the slightest bit of responsibility.

I have forked payment in full even though the build went $2,000 over the original quote. I still don’t have what I paid for, my car is still sitting in chasers workshop while months pass by. <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> should at least, from a customer service point of view, take up <E240 Edit: PM WhiteAP1 for details> offer and make the appropriate repairs. I am EXTREAMLY disappointed with their work and do not recommend them to anyone. Advice to all, stay the bloody hell away from them!!!!!!!

Man have I gone through that sh!t (different shop)..... still waiting to send the papers away to fair trading over same thing but the engine head... they think they can fcuk up and its the clients fault... if only it was that easy to rip them off!