Desperate for some good advice...

[beeza]

Still can't get my car going,the problem continues...Help plz.
96 EK1 Auto Sedan,d16y4 SOHC Non-VTec.

Got Compression in all 4 cylinders
Got Spark in all 4 cylinders
Put Aerostart in the cylinders and TB
All Fuses are working
Diognostic check done with the scan tool and manually
Replaced PGMFI Relay

Note- I have the MSD Ignition System Installed and the Raizin Hi Voltage grounding kit installed but we unhooked it all and tried but no go.
There's Fuel pressure showing on the Fuel Pressure Regulator,petrol in the tank.
My car is at my mechanics.

[nd55]

Does it crank at all?

[beeza]

It cranks but wont fire

[EKVTIR-T]

When you turn key to on position can you here the fuel pump prime and a relay click off?

[beeza]

Is that the PGMFI relay? If it is it definately does.

[EKVTIR-T]

I was thinking Main Fuel relay.

[beeza]

I don't know if my mechanic checked for that or not,I will have to ask him.I didn't.But both him and and another mechanic didn't seem to think it was a fuel problem.... but definately will check that out.

[Spicey]

Its spark IMHO, if aerostart wont work I would be checking spark. You checked for trouble codes yet?

[TheGoodDeal]

I think it's not PGMFI relay because you have replaced with the new one. When you said all fuses are working OK are you mean both under hood and under dash. As I know there are two fuses cut off PGMFI relay, one under hood and one under dash.

[beeza]

Its spark IMHO, if aerostart wont work I would be checking spark. You checked for trouble codes yet?

Definately got spark.Yes checked for trouble codes using a scan tool and by manually shorting it.


I think it's not PGMFI relay because you have replaced with the new one. When you said all fuses are working OK are you mean both under hood and under dash. As I know there are two fuses cut off PGMFI relay, one under hood and one under dash.

Yes ALL fuses.

[bennjamin]

what angle is the dizzy sitting at on the head ?
try retarding it all the way (loosen the 3 x 12mm bolts and turn the dizzy towards the FRONT of the car) and see if that gets it started. Happened to me once.

[beeza]

That's a great idea.It's advanced a little.
I won't be able to try until tuesday,that's when my mechanic will be back after the long weekend.Cheers ben.

[EG5[KRT]]

id put a noid light on the injector harness to see if you are getting injector signal.maybe you ecu fuse is blown... ?

[TheGoodDeal]

It sound very noob suspicous. Did you check your battery? Because I read somewhere that you drive only 1 min form home to work everyday. So the battery give up after regularly not enought charged.

[EG5[KRT]]

wont be battery because if it cranks it has enough battery amperage.

it would more likely be a battery if it didnt crank

[beeza]

;1514904']id put a noid light on the injector harness to see if you are getting injector signal.maybe you ecu fuse is blown... ?

Yeah done that,thanks mate.Any more suggestions plz.
The battery charge was low,but we got another battery hooked up to it.

[dsp26]

^^^curious, how are you guys checking for spark?

also what does the "MSD Ignition System" consist of?

[beeza]

Take the lead out,put the plug in it and crank it.Then look for the spark on the plug.
MSD:
MSD External coil (blaster 3)
MSD Multiple spark box
Modified stock dizzy

[dsp26]

1) Did the MSD system come as a set or you pieced them yourself? I know for a fact that some cdi boxes can't spark certain coils.. kinda have to be matched.

2) Also, try lowering the gap on your plugs as a test (like 0.8mm) ambient air density isn't dense and even a stock ignition system can fire at 0.5cm gap... what i'm getting at is even though you can see spark outside, it may not be sparking in the combustion chamber....


Take the lead out,put the plug in it and crank it.Then look for the spark on the plug.
MSD:
MSD External coil (blaster 3)
MSD Multiple spark box
Modified stock dizzy

[bennjamin]

every time you crank it in the hope it starts , it pumps more fuel into the cylinders. IF there is a weak spark (from too much advanced timing or bad plugs or ignition) then you will flood the cylinders and give this issue.
Have you tried disconnecting all ignition + fuel , unplug all spark plugs from engine and try to "start" the car for a few goes to hopefully get teh excess fuel out ?

[beeza]

I pieced the MSD together but all the pieces match.It was already in the car for a year,I just replaced the coil to see if it was that but it wasn't.I'm using NGK Iridium plugs.We put new ones of these in too.The spark is very strong even blue in colour.
Yeah,I think the excess fuel will need taking out.

[beeza]

Bump.

[Klayemore]

Try pulling up your carpet where your wires run and check for any that are burnt out. This happened to me and my fuel pump wouldn't prime. Checked through my wiring and there was a wire that had been cut and taped back together, but it had burnt through the tape. Re-connected it and all good :D

[beeza]

Thanks Klayemore!! Will do!

[ECU-MAN]

as EG5 KRT mentioned you need to check the injectors if they are pulsing, you could have a problem with the Immobilser that will cut injector pulse,

does this ecu match the keys and car ???? if not it needs to be reprogramed.

[beeza]

Thanks mate,will check it again.It's the original ECU.

[beeza]

as EG5 KRT mentioned you need to check the injectors if they are pulsing, you could have a problem with the Immobilser that will cut injector pulse,

does this ecu match the keys and car ???? if not it needs to be reprogramed.

I just spoke to my mechanic.He said we have done this^^

Things to do/check (learnt from this thread):
*Retard the dizzy
*Check for burnt out wires
*Main Fuel relay

Anything thing else anyne can think I should do/check?
Thank U.

[bennjamin]

maybe start swapping in parts from a good known working EK1.
IE dizzy or leads or fuel relay etc.
Got a mate with a EK1 you can borrow for abit ?

[beeza]

Yeah,cool.Thank ben.

[VTEC@14.7psi]

maybe u should take it to a different mechanic, it doesnt seem like yours has much experience with hondas otherwise he would have found the problem by now, rather than you asking advice on the net instead

[beeza]

Yeah,the thing is if I do the work myself he hardly charges me.I can use the workshop,but the time he does spend on the car I have to pay for (I can pay him off though).So I do everything I can and then I wait for help,but sometimes if they are busy I'm waiting a while...
I spent 8 hours in the workshop yesterday,I learnt heaps but they were real busy so I didn't get too much help.
I'm hoping I get a phone call today to say it's runnin',we were getting real close and then I'll post what was wrong.

[Limbo]

did you earth the coil properly? that caused me a similar problem before

[beeza]

I'm running the MSD blaster 3 coil.So the negative terminal runs to the MSD box.The negative cable from the MSD has a good ground.So I'm sure that's all good.

Oh come on My mechanic,ring me :)

[kerim]

i had the same problem, it cranks but ownt kick over. changed the main relay under the dash and it worked, not sure if thats the same as the pgmfi one though, if its not give that a try

[beeza]

Did it look like this:
It's quite big,about 2 inches by 1 inch.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l287/beeza2/relay_small.jpg

[bennjamin]

THAT above , is the main relay. Located under the drivers side kick panel. Has about 8 wires hanging out of it. As i mentioned before , if you havent tested it , swap with another working car and see if that is the issue

[beeza]

Come to think of it,it's not a fuel problem but...

Finially my mechanic will look at it tomorrow (he's been too busy) and hopefully I will post the good news and results...

[tekung89]

i had a similar problem, my dizzy was the wrong way around so wen i tested to tested the dizzy for sparks it was fine. the car still cranked but the sparks were being fired in the wrong order. if u havnt already, take ur dizzy out, twist it 180 and put it back in. then try starting the car

[beeza]

Thanks mate!

A diognostic guy is coming out on monday or tuesday to have a look at it.I will make sure the above is correct first.

[EG5[KRT]]

im pretty sure the dizzy can only go in one way properly.

the rotor thingy is offset from the middle a little

[beeza]

Tomorrow we will be putting in a new rotor and Ignition control module (in the dizzy) and see how that goes b4 the diognostic guy checks it out,cause he's quite expensive.

[kerim]

Did it look like this:
It's quite big,about 2 inches by 1 inch.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l287/beeza2/relay_small.jpg

ey man,

yeah looked like that, that's the main relay, as bennjamin said, change that off a working car, would probably cost you cheaper than changing the ICM, or you can try the wreckers, i got a used working one off them for nothing, he just gave it to me

[beeza]

Swapped the whole dizzy over and it's going finally!! WOOT WOOT! So it was either the Ignition Control Module or rotor.I have to swap the parts around and try to find out what.I will do this monday,I'm gonna spend the day out the mechanics and learn me some stuff :) HAPPPEEEE!!! Yay!

[dsp26]

^^^most likely the ICM.

However when i did my external coil setup, i forgot about the rotor button/spring and was running without one.... sparked sometimes but it was coz spark was jumping straight fromt he cap to the rotor....

have fun playing with your spark gaps :thumbsup:

[beeza]

Yeah my money is on the ICM 4sure.Is the rotor button/spring the one on the inside middle of the dizzy?

[dsp26]

Yeah my money is on the ICM 4sure.Is the rotor button/spring the one on the inside middle of the dizzy?

yep...

my external coil dizzy didn't come with one and i forgot to transfer it over from my oem.. lol.

[beeza]

Yeh,true.Phew,I was worried thier was a spring that goes in the rotor chamber thingy...

[55EXX]

good to hear you got it going man i was worried for ya too

[beeza]

THANK U!!! I didn't mind not having a car for a month,I live close to work and it was something different to always having ya car but yeah at times it got me down.It was more not knowing what the problem was than anything.I still was buying parts the last month though,I knew we would get it going sooner or later.
Driving her again will be like good sex,haha,maybe not but ya get what I mean :)

[beeza]

Now the idle is fluctuating,only when it's in Park or neutral (automatic car).It revs up up to 1700rpm then drops to 1100rpm and just keeps repaeting this...
We mucked around with the TB for half and hour and tried to fix it but no go.It drives fines,no pinging,going like a dream.it's just the idle when in P or Neutral...
Anyone had this issue befire and might know what it is?

[hayashi_1986]

I've had in my EG VTi, but that's a manual and the problem was the TB gasket haha. You've probably already replace the gasket if you were mucking around with the TB itself.

[beeza]

I cleaned the TB and IM out about 3 months back,the gaskets were fine and didn't need replacing.

[beeza]

Also it only happens when the car is warmed up.

[bennjamin]

changed ur thermostat ?

[VTEC@14.7psi]

try cleaning out the Idle Air Control Valve (warm idle controller)

heres a gud diy that includes servicing the Fast Idle Thermo Valve (cold idle controler)

http://www.superhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259965

[rayb3na_]

hey dude same shit happening with my civic atm.. apparently ive been told the thing that warms up your engine faster when u first start it. ie. the thing that makes u revs high then slowly drop is actually fukd.. mine goes crazy the first 5 minutes up and down but i dont seem to be having an issue with the engine or car itself.

[Benson]

your cold idle control valve is screwed up. That needs replacing and it should fix the problem

[beeza]

Thanks Benson! Will replace!

[beeza]

That's on the TB right? Is it just a matter of removing the old one and putting in a new one?

[beeza]

I will be spending the day at the mechanics on Thursday.I will clean the cold idle control valve out with carby cleaner,adjusting the tappets and a few other things and we will see how she runs then.

[beeza]

It was the Ignition control module...