What brand fuel do you use in your Euro?

[Thorn2004]

I know there is a limited range of petrol suppliers who hold premium but I was wondering what do you guys use in your Euro's? The reason why I am asking is I changed from Mobil Premium to Shell Optimax last weekend. The car is running MUCH smoother on Shell Optimax than it ever did on the Mobil Premium, I have no idea why but I am serious, the Euro's motor is much quieter and there is more power than before I filled her up with Shell! Any ideas why? I mean they are the same Octane rating right?

Anyway I am not complaining too much, but I know what I will be using from now on :D

[Spoon-Accord]

i tend to think shell aint that good of a petrol
i tend to use Mobil synergy more..
It runs better.. better millliege and also satisfy's my engine more (Not euro Accord)

cheers

Ken

[Thorn2004]

i tend to think shell aint that good of a petrol
i tend to use Mobil synergy more..
It runs better.. better millliege and also satisfy's my engine more (Not euro Accord)

cheers

Ken

Well this is where the different point of views comes into it, I mean everyone doesn't have the exact same car do they? For me Shell Optimax actually peforms better than Mobil Synergy, I have no idea why but for me it is true :) I haven't tried any other brands yet but I have been warned off some because their octane rating isn't as high!

[EuroAccord13]

My Reply...

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8330

[Slugoid]

My Euro runs better with Mobil Synergy 8000 than Optimax. However, I'm running Optimax now cos of that 4c off thing.

I heard that BP Ultimate is good too....might give it a try soon.

[vti-2]

Shell Optimax? Pfft... It's way too overated. Do a search and you will find a huge thread discussing all the fuels from ages ago. Like last year i think.

[aka_NSX]

I'm using OPTIMAX, I reckon I got more mileage

[Calvo]

it also depends where u fill up...

like not all fuel is the same in different areas...

so ive been told...

[euro77]

I've tried Mobil Synergy 8000 and Shell Optimax, didn't notice a difference in performance and milage, so I went back to Optimax because of 4c and Fly Buys :D

[A'PEXi]

optimax seems to be (might not be true, don't quote me) but 95/96 RON + additives, tolone?... which makes it close to 98, apparently there are only two companies which have pure 98 RON fuel and thats mobil and BP.... caltex vortex is 95, but should be 98 by early 2005 :)

[EuroAccord13]

I know of a certain "someone" who test fuels in Australia and he told me that the 98RON aren't actually 98... Shhhhh.. you didn't hear it from me :P

[Speeder]

i try to use bp ultima, very good i think, optimax as someone said is overrated, i heard they use heaps of chemicals so i dont use it, otherwise i think synergy 8000 gives me the most milage.
ps i dont drive a accord but hey i assume its all good :)

[Slugoid]

I know of a certain "someone" who test fuels in Australia and he told me that the 98RON aren't actually 98... Shhhhh.. you didn't hear it from me :P

Care to tell us which brand of fuel isn't actually 98RON? :p

[EuroAccord13]

Care to tell us which brand of fuel isn't actually 98RON? :p

I was told about this about a year ago... and I can't reveal it because I don't 1) wanna get sued, 2) flamed, 3) create controvery..

Lets just say I don't use that brand :P

[PERTH_EURO]

....... i heard they use heaps of chemicals so i dont use it, .....


.....hmmmm is that all fuel is. A collection of chemicals??

In WA we only have BP ulitmate as a +95oct fuel, so that is what my accord always runs on. Paid $1.16/L for it yesterday.

Pretty well all fuel on the WA market comes from the one refinery, and thats a BP one. Hence no one else sells 98ron, BP monopoly.

[VirIIx]

go shell go well ;)

I've always been a fan of Optimax, i've tried the Mobile once, in my old car and the old car spat it right back out, but with Optimax it's always pretty good. Caltex and BP don't seem too bad either, but Optimax all the way!

[EuroSip]

Optimax all the way along with octane boost....costs so damn much for me to fill up though...but it's worth it for a good drive. ^.^

[euro77]

I heard that octane boost is actually bad for your engine. But don't quote me on it, as I haven't had any experience with octane boost.

[higgo_69]

I Use Unleaded

[Euro_Boy]

the chemicals you talk about is the stuff that cleans out your engine and injectors...

while optimax is a great fuel, your only supposd to fill it up every few weeks... i suggest bp ultimate (my choice) or mobile synergy more regularly...

[baboo]

Isn't the BP Ultimate only has 97 Octane rating?
a bit lower than Optimax right?

[PERTH_EURO]

close 98 rating.

[euro77]

tried BP Ultimate, and I think I feel a slight increase in engine response. Not sure though. Will try to switch back to Optimax and see if that response will be gone or not.

[Type R Positive]

.....hmmmm is that all fuel is. A collection of chemicals??

In WA we only have BP ulitmate as a +95oct fuel, so that is what my accord always runs on. Paid $1.16/L for it yesterday.

Pretty well all fuel on the WA market comes from the one refinery, and thats a BP one. Hence no one else sells 98ron, BP monopoly.

you said it man, but only $1.16/L? lucky you! try $1.27/L! I love the Pilbara! (thank god for leaseplan)

we have BP, Shell, and Caltex up here in Hedland. ALL are crapity crap crap. I use Caltex up here but as PERTH_EURO says, it is all BP fuel. It just depends on the dodgy servo's that determine quality.

My car doesn't run as well as when it was first delivered from Perth. Did I mention the fuel up here is crap? I might have to buy a 44 of elf and mix.

[Type R Positive]

shell fuel carbons up my mx race bike and is a lot dirtier than mobil. This was in QLD though. Too much sulfur in the fuel. I would use mobil if I had the chance.

[will_pop]

shell is the worst among mobile caltex and bp.... ( only personal experience.)
i use caltex for the 4c deal.... but when i don't have the wollies docket... i use mobil.. coz mobile gives the best milage and best engin response.... it's the quietest...keke i got cannon muffler all other fuel are loude except mobil keke ....

[Pum[Z]]

As Perth_Euro said that the only 98 Ron available in Perth is BP Ultimate so that is the petrol i use. The next best thing is Caltex Vortex but then that is 96 Ron.... But again it all comes from the One Refinery in Perth so might as well go with BP.
_________________________
:honda: Accord Euro Luxury 04
NightHawk Black Pearl, 6MT
Limo Tint, 19inch Chrome Alloys, D2 Adjustable Suspension, Injen CAI,
Mugen Accessories.

[Euro_Boy]

If anyone knows someone credible that works in the petroleum industry (i.e a scientist of some sort) that could once and for all declare which is the best for performance, noise, etc. because everyone you talk to has different opinions.

[Type R Positive]

If anyone knows someone credible that works in the petroleum industry (i.e a scientist of some sort) that could once and for all declare which is the best for performance, noise, etc. because everyone you talk to has different opinions.

best performance? NITROMETHANE!!!!! (well, you asked!)

[kanthan]

i just switched from optimax to mobil. I have noticed my engine is a lot more responsive especially towards the higher end. The end is a lot smoother and quieter.

[revNhevN]

Just got a euro last week. Done about 300km and the tank is at half. Will probably use premium unleaded or optimax. .Taking it easy on the engine till 1000km service.

[kenshin]

yeah i've just realised shell optimax is causing a build up of black dust on my rear bumper (even after a 5 min drive its noticable... i'm not the only one)

will try to switch to mobil synergy...

octane booster doesnt help much anymore... was meant to boost standard ULP to ~98 octane before 98 octance fuel was avaliable here... nowadays if you fill up 98 octane its pointless... as the engine wont respond to a higher octane rating then what its designned to run at....

try Wynns injector cleaner... poured a bottle in my tank and acceleration in 1st n 2nd gears is HIGHLY noticable...

[coladuna]

I have never used anything else except BP Ultimate.

[PERTH_EURO]

I have never used anything else except BP Ultimate.

ditto

[euro77]

BP Ultimate is good. I actually have been using it for a few months now and I feel my engine is much more responsive and much smoother. I just filled it in with Optimax last week and I noticed the difference straight away, my engine is less responsive than using BP Ultimate. Will go back to BP Ultimate in the next fill. If only fuel price would go down..........

[Type R Positive]

If only fuel price would go down.......... You and me both brother! Fuel is now $1.23 / litre for normal unleaded here at the moment! People are crying in Perth cause they have to pay just over a dollar!

If it goes up too much more, I might have to get a diesel and make my own fuel. It's quite easy to do.

[DCLXVI]

make your own fuel?? how?

[aaronng]

From waste cooking oil.

[kanthan]

i guess it balances out cause u guys pay way less then us in insurance.

[Type R Positive]

i guess it balances out cause u guys pay way less then us in insurance. Actually, we don't usually. Insurance as well as everything else here would be roughly more than twice as much as you would pay in the city, no joke. For instance, a good cut of steak, say porterhouse, costs about $27 / kg.

[Type R Positive]

make your own fuel?? how? Diesels run nearly on anything. As aaronng said, waste cooking oil works, a few mates and I have had to boil up coconuts to get out of trouble before. It ran like crap, but it ran never the less. That smell.... mmmmmm coconuts. What a laugh!

[PERTH_EURO]

i guess it balances out cause u guys pay way less then us in insurance.

Believe or not there is this imaginery line called the 26th parralel, and if you live above it, like i used to, and like type r +'ve does, you pay more than city folk for insurance. Its absolutley BS, if ya ask why its excuses like kangaroos. Why hello dont the roos head south of this imaginery line??? grr


Actually, we don't usually. Insurance as well as everything else here would be roughly more than twice as much as you would pay in the city, no joke. For instance, a good cut of steak, say porterhouse, costs about $27 / kg.

hahaha but you forgot to mention you earn 3 times as much :D

[Type R Positive]

hahaha, and there's that point about being the highest crime rate in Australia or some BS!!!

[aaronng]

How much is your petrol prices today? Just saw Shell having $1.059 per litre for regular unleaded, that should be about $1.159 per litre for Optimax, and minu 4 cents for the coles docket. Fill 'er up!!!

[Type R Positive]

in perth prices went up today about 8c over night I saw on the news. BP and Shell I think.

[aaronng]

DAmmit... $1.149 for regular today.. 9 cent jump overnight

[Type R Positive]

it is total bullshit. I wish the government would step in. They are making the most out of price rises.

[aaronng]

Yup, even with oil prices rising, the weakening of the US dollar should offset the cost.

[kitbkk]

what is the octane of caltex unleaded??? I filled it up for my euro the other day... Im afraid the octane ron is less than 95??

[EuroAccord13]

Unleaded generally means it's 91 RON Octane..

[stephen8512]

mines been fed BP Ultimate all its life....10,000kms and goin strong :thumbsup:

[fortec@sprint.net.au]

Used both Optimax and BP Ultimate. Both are quite good, being higher octane rating. Very smooth and more responsive. Have not really noticed difference between them and did not experience better mileage as some one has suggested.

With petrol prices continuing to go North I have gone back to plain premium. Now just fill up with Unlead 95 (Shell) or Vortex Premium (Caltex) because of the 4c off thingy. Occassionally where there is a price war I will sneak in a tank of Optimax.

Has anyone just used regular unleaded? Is it bad for the Euro?

[yfin]

Has anyone just used regular unleaded? Is it bad for the Euro?

Don't even think about it. :thumbdwn:

[nexace]

Think I might start with Shell then... 4c + 4c = 8c. And boy, do I need the discount!

[TwEigh]

I thought it is related,
so I scan it out of my favorite megazine. (Autosalon Megazine Issue 31)

http://members.westnet.com.au/synapse/images/fuel.jpg

[nexace]

Hhahaha... Sit on the fence just to be on the safe side.

Does anyone get petrol from stations besides Shell, Mobil, BP and Caltex?

[kitbkk]

Im going to the 1000km service today and going to ask them to get the fuel out of the tank (caltex unleaded)... I was f***en stupid ... bad bad.... :( wish my car will be alrite in da future... The sad thing is I put da wrong fuel wen the car was doing run in.. wish my lil euro luck

[VirIIx]

i can't believe this thread is still around and being bumped :b

again.. my vote now in order.

1. Shell Optimax FTW (For The Win :p)
2. Caltex Vorpal
3. Bp Ultimate (could goto number 2 but Caltex is more popular than BP in areas)
4. Mobile - HELL NO, not for any of my cars unless it's unleaded.

[V205]

Hi guys,

I was wondering if anyone has decided to not use 98 octane fuel for their Euro and just PULP 95 is enough?

And have you found much diff between using 98 and 95 for daily use? (mileage... power etc)

Regards.

[Ferrarista]

For some reason, when i use BP ultimate my car runs smooth. When i use optimax it sometimes runs abit rough, personally i think its coincidence but who knows?

I'll pay closer attention next time, but for the time being i use Optimax

[stephen8512]

yeah ferrarista same here. only when i use ultimate, its a TAD rougher and mobil synergy 8000 is smooth as silk. i refuse to use optimax on mine as it spits it out like dirt....

[kitbkk]

I agree with you both man.. I feel that the engine runs farken smooth with BP ultimate but in my area there is 1 Shell station so its more convinience for me to go there and get 98 optimax but its still good..IMO ultimate is still better :D

[zco]

this might not be related.. but those 4cents off thingy.. is quite good..

i also heard, that you can recieve another 4cents off by using your VISA, BUTT!!! the thing is.. when you use your visa.. they charge you $1.XX to use it. so.. works out the same.

[STTICH]

its always been BP ultimate.. the car runs alot smoother.. :) too bad they don hav much 4 cents thingy off for BP :o

[fortec@sprint.net.au]

Reply to V205:

I have used BP Ulitmate, Optimax and Vortex Gold (98 Oct). These are all better than normal premium (95 Oct). If you use the better and more expensive fuels, you should notice more power in your acceleration.

I have not noticed much difference between the three although other people will swear one is better then the other. I have not experienced any improvement in mileage (or is that Kilometreleage?) when using the higher Octane fuel and I do mainly city driving with a good dose of Freeway. If there is a difference I have not notice it.

I have been driving the Euro for 15 months now, approaching 25Ks. As mine is a lease car, I keep very accurate records of how much fuel used, etc. So I am quoting from good historical/empirical data.

Advanced Fuel Technology may give you some improvement in consumption but it will not be ground breaking otherwise the whole world will be on to it. Just drive carefully, acelerate smoothly and you will be surprised how your fuel economy will improve.

[Thorn2004]

i can't believe this thread is still around and being bumped :b

again.. my vote now in order.

1. Shell Optimax FTW (For The Win :p)
2. Caltex Vorpal
3. Bp Ultimate (could goto number 2 but Caltex is more popular than BP in areas)
4. Mobile - HELL NO, not for any of my cars unless it's unleaded.

Me too, I got a shock when I rocked up here and saw this thread up the top of the list ;) Guess the high fuel prices have everyone all fired up !!

My 2 cents worth... I think something fishy is going on with the fuel prices, have you guys noticed that when the oil prices go down, the fuel prices don't or if they do it takes weeks? By that time the oil prices have gone up again and there goes your saving anyhow? Speaking of that, when the oil prices go up the fuel prices jump straight away! I can't help feeling that someone is benefitting from all of this, I know the government with their fuel tax are, but I think the big wigs at the oil companies and the petrol companies, are making a tidy profit!

What about the ACCC? Why arnt they intervening and doing something about it?

Anyhowz I still use Optimax, performance is good but might switch one day just to check out the others for efficiency, plus the 4c off is a bonus :)

[GYPO2C]

hows about the semi petrol strike in sydney last week... i think it was thurs 22nd sept. People were told not to fill up because of the affect it would have on the petrol companies.... and then the smart ass petrol companies put out the cheapest petrol prices in like 2 months on that DAY!!

anyways.. back to topic... i started with Shell Optimax when i had my old Integra LS, but then switched to BP Ultimate. IMO it was smoother and i WAS getting about 40-50 more kms per tank. Now that I have my leased Euro ive got a BP card, which works fine by me because i can continue putting in BP Ultimate, and it is the only servo i can get fuel from so i wont be able to make any comparisons

[Omotesando]

The Laboratory Test might have determined that the RON is basically 98 between all four major Premium Fuel available, but due to the way that they are refined as well as the additives involved a major difference can be felt when more ECU tuning is done!


Not sure if it really makes a huge difference on N/A cars, but when I was still in the Turbo camp (S15 Silvia just below 200kw/wheels, basic bolt on mods plus Power FC), and with Knock Sensor function readily readable on the FC Controller, MOBIL Synergy 8000 was by far the best in terms of power and minimum knock.


APS - a well known performance company in Australia and now in America, came to the same conclusion as well testing the various fuels on their modified XR6Turbo!


Basically if you have a turbo and you are tuned to the potential of the car, NO-ONE would want to use BP Ultimate, for some reason it would run much less Ignition Timing and hence loses just below 10rwkw easily!


On a non-stressful, non-tuned N/A engine though, I wouldn't fuss so much about it! But if car's oem ECU map was tuned for only 95 RON max, I would stick to it. 98 is less volatile (just mentioned this on another thread actually!) despite having higher potential energy (at increased price!) so takes more energy to ignite, hence if car isn't tuned for 98, it will run richer and hence lose power and consumption despite paying for more!


I have NOT reached a conclusion yet however, as I've just switched to driving the EURO and haven't talked to too many tuners about how conservative the Euro's original mapping is like.... if someone who has HONDATA experience on the Euro's or any piggy-back ecu's (not VAFC-II as its only Air/Fuel adjustment) then I would love to hear about their opinion!!


:)

[yfin]

Basically if you have a turbo and you are tuned to the potential of the car, NO-ONE would want to use BP Ultimate, for some reason it would run much less Ignition Timing and hence loses just below 10rwkw easily!

On a non-stressful, non-tuned N/A engine though, I wouldn't fuss so much about it! But if car's oem ECU map was tuned for only 95 RON max, I would stick to it. 98 is less volatile (just mentioned this on another thread actually!) despite having higher potential energy (at increased price!) so takes more energy to ignite, hence if car isn't tuned for 98, it will run richer and hence lose power and consumption despite paying for more!



Thanks for your post - very interesting :thumbsup:

Re non-stressed N/A engines - I don't think the Euro is a non-stressed engine - probably the opposite given the piston speeds are way way up there with some exotic cars at red line.

I haven't heard anyone say if your car isn't tuned for 98 it will lose power. At worst people say "no difference" will be noticed - not a detrimental difference. Do you have any further information on that point - ie 98 ron in a non-tuned 98 ron vechicle can lose power?

** re the stats below - sorry I can't remember where I got these from - fairly sure it was a poster on acurazine.com

Regards


1. Honda S2000:
Engine Code: F20C1
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.31"
Redline: 9000rpm
Piston Speed: 4965 Ft/min

2. Lamborghini Gallardo
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.25" X 3.65"
Redline: 8000rpm
Piston Speed: 4866.67 Ft/min

3. Acura Integra Type R
Engine Code: B18C5
Bore/Stroke: 3.19" X 3.43"
Redline: 8400rpm
Piston Speed: 4802 Ft/min

4. BMW M3 (Germany)
Engine Code: S54
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.58"
Redline: 8000rpm
Piston Speed: 4773.33 Ft/min

5. Honda S2000 2004
Engine Code: F22C
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.57"
Redline: 8000rpm
Piston Speed: 4760 Ft/min

6. Honda Integra Type R (JDM)
Engine Code: K20A
Bore/Stroke: 3.39" X 3.39"
Redline: 8400rpm
Piston Speed: 4746 Ft/min

7. Acura Integra GSR 2001
Engine Code: B18C
Bore/Stroke: 3.19" X 3.43"
Redline: 8200rpm
Piston Speed: 4687.67 Ft/min

8. Saleen S7
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 4.13" X 4.00"
Redline: 7000rpm
Piston Speed: 4666.67 Ft/min

9. Acura TSX
Engine Code: K24A2
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.90"
Redline: 7100rpm
Piston Speed: 4615 Ft/min

10. Suzuki Hayabusa Sport Prototype
Engine Code: W701
Bore/Stroke: 3.19" X 2.48"
Redline: 11000rpm
Piston Speed: 4546.67 Ft/min

11. Honda Civic Type R
Engine Code: B16B
Bore/Stroke: 3.19" X 3.03"
Redline: 9000rpm
Piston Speed: 4545 Ft/min

12. Toyota Celica GTS / Matrix XRS 2001
Engine Code: 2ZZ-GE
Bore/Stroke: 3.23" X 3.35"
Redline: 8100rpm
Piston Speed: 4522.5 Ft/min

13. Honda Prelude Type S (JDM)
Engine Code: H22A
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.57"
Redline: 7500rpm
Piston Speed: 4462.5 Ft/min

14. Acura RSX Type S
Engine Code: K20A2
Bore/Stroke: 3.38" X 3.38"
Redline: 7900rpm
Piston Speed: 4450.33 Ft/min

15. Ferrari 360 Modena (incl. Challenge, Stradale, etc)
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.35" X 3.11"
Redline: 8500rpm
Piston Speed: 4405.83 Ft/min

16. Lamborghini Murcielago
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.42"
Redline: 7600rpm
Piston Speed: 4332 Ft/min

17. McLaren F1
Engine Code: N/A (BMW V12)
Bore/Stroke: 3.39" X 3.43"
Redline: 7500rpm
Piston Speed: 4287.5 Ft/min

18. Renault Clio 2.0 RS 2003
Engine Code: F4R
Bore/Stroke: 3.26" X 3.66"
Redline: 7000rpm
Piston Speed: 4270 Ft/min

19. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 2004
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.94" X 3.01"
Redline: 8500rpm
Piston Speed: 4264.17 Ft/min

20. Pagani Zonda C12S
Engine Code: M120 7.3 AMG
Bore/Stroke: 3.6" X 3.64"
Redline: 7000rpm
Piston Speed: 4246.67 Ft/min

21. Peugeot 206RC 2004
Engine Code: EW10 J4 S
Bore/Stroke: 3.35" X 3.46"
Redline: 7300rpm
Piston Speed: 4209.67 Ft/min

22. Porsche Carrera GT
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.86" X 2.99"
Redline: 8400rpm
Piston Speed: 4186 Ft/min

23. Acura NSX-T
Engine Code: C32B
Bore/Stroke: 3.66" X 3.07"
Redline: 8000rpm
Piston Speed: 4093.33 Ft/min

24. BMW M5 2002
Engine Code: S62
Bore/Stroke: 3.70" X 3.50"
Redline: 7000rpm
Piston Speed: 4083.33 Ft/min

25. BMW M5 E60
Engine Code: S65 (?)
Bore/Stroke: 3.62" X 2.96"
Redline: 8250rpm
Piston Speed: 4070 Ft/min

26. Nissan Primera W20V
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.39" X 3.39"
Redline: 7200rpm
Piston Speed: 4068 Ft/min

27. Ferrari Enzo
Engine Code: F140
Bore/Stroke: 3.62" X 2.96"
Redline: 8000rpm
Piston Speed: 3946.67 Ft/min

28. Ferrari 575 Maranello
Engine Code: 650 V21
Bore/Stroke: 3.50" X 3.03"
Redline: 7750rpm
Piston Speed: 3913.75 Ft/min

[Tiago]

I tend to use mobil premium unleaded in my Euro.......as i do also have a performance motorbike and after using shell optimax in it had extensive jetting damage and engine damage due to the fuel being dirty.........almost every motorbike store out there dnt recommend using shell optimax because it is known to be dirty and dangerous 4 motorbikes, however, having said this it can be different from using it in a car.

[aaronng]

Hondata testing for the Oz-spec Euro is with Mobile Synergy 8000, and they seem to like it.

[Omotesando]

Thanks for your post - very interesting :thumbsup:

Re non-stressed N/A engines - I don't think the Euro is a non-stressed engine - probably the opposite given the piston speeds are way way up there with some exotic cars at red line.

I haven't heard anyone say if your car isn't tuned for 98 it will lose power. At worst people say "no difference" will be noticed - not a detrimental difference. Do you have any further information on that point - ie 98 ron in a non-tuned 98 ron vechicle can lose power?

** re the stats below - sorry I can't remember where I got these from - fairly sure it was a poster on acurazine.com

Regards




You are right in the sense that you are comparing the above engines, but not sure if you noticed that I came from the turbo camp LOL! So two things to consider is:

1) In the Accord Euro the air Compression ratio is 10.5, which is fairly high I suppose. In effect when combustion occurs yes this produces more torque and thus power, but the whole process is very simple.

When compared to a turbo car which runs standard 8.0-9.0 compression ratio but with an increase of say 1BAR or 14.7psi (sometimes more) over stock atmospheric pressure of 14.7psi, in effect you are increasing the factory compression ratio/capacity by 100%. And then there's the imminent heat increase.

We all know that turbo cars are way more stressful than N/A cars (unless its an F1 engine lasting 2 races), turboed cars don't last as long, yet they can still survive on Australian 95 or 98 Octange fuel without a problem, and that's without delaying Ignition Timing that much as to sacrifice both throttle response and low down power.


Thing is there is only a certain amount of Advanced Ignition Timing that you can run on a engine, and with 98 octane fuel on N/A car it is more than plenty!


2) If you take a look at the DATA you provided, you will see that the Euro Accord has a very higher Stoke vs Bore ratio, or I should say low Bore to Stroke ratio. This is actually a bit of an old skool and new design hybrid, more like a diesel engine. In fact the K24 is just a longer stroke version of the K20 engine, and that's where its extra capacity comes from. :D


In effect you will get a lower rpm biased torque curve as well as higher maximum torque since increasing the stroke does that, whereas decreasing the stroke like in the K20A engine you will lose torque but in essence you get back the acceleration from revving out to more 'power' at higher RPM.

Remember that Torque is just a derivative of Power plus RPM, in my eyes when I see a Torque Curve and a Power Curve it describes exactly the same picture to me, just needs extrapolation in your head. The difference between the K20A and K24 in Euro is thus the torque and its band distribution/concentration.


Max Torque on Aust Spec Euro K24 = 223Nm@4500rpm :D
Max Torque on Aust Spec Type S K20A = 194Nm@7000rpm
Max Torque on Aust Spec S2000 F20C = 208Nm@7500rpm!! :rolleyes:

But Type S has maximum power of 154KW whereas Euro only has 140KW. :(
S2000 is 176KW @8300rpm. :D


Piston speed at 'HIGHEST' RPM redline might be similar between all three cars, in fact they all all above the usually accepted 4000ft/min threshold which distinguishes high performance engines - so you are right in this comparison for N/A cars but what you got to know is that apart from the piston speed the more RPM the car works the more the crank and the bearings wear out and more heat. And more heat required Higher Octane Fuel!


Relatively speaking the Euro Accord is way more torque orientated, thus more power at less RPM, and usually people dont need to strang its neck off to get any performance from it. So in this sense - NO it is not a highly stressed engine but then it is CAPABLE OF BEING ONE, in fact the reason why it can even idle at around 700rpm is because it has a long stroke, with engine not stalling when its engaged in 1st gear with clutch fully out (partially because it also has Electronic Throttle control).


And with more torque when you put the same load on the engine, it is less prone to knock. Even though this only applies if you are in the wrong too-low a gear especially going uphill, in this sense the Euro is still not as stressed as other engines.





As for the Octane of Fuel, it is basically all about being able to handle the extra compression, heat, exact but small overlapping timing of ignition of air/fuel be it N/A or Turbo, before it ignites properly. If it pre-ignites it will cause Knocking because the piston is still travelling on compression-stroke vector wise.

By Advancing Ignition Timing it means that you try to start the Combustion process before the piston has reached TDC (Top Dead Centre), and you do this because the combustion takes time to occur with the flamefront spreading correctly, but you get it correct you get more power!! High Octane fuel is better in this aspect because they require higher activation energy, can handle more compression, more advanced ignition timing without pre-ignition (more like explosion) - this kind of speaks for itself I think. :rolleyes:

[Omotesando]

By the way, I have heard people say that Higher Octane Fuel does not necessarily mean it has higher energy content, even though my friend in the industry says they do.

Some theory goes that increased Octane will compensates for more power if it can handle more compression ratio, which equates more power, but on an N/A I thought this is pretty constant whereas on a Turbo its variable even to temperature or manually tuned.


Also different fuels have different energy per unit, different densities, even if all are anti-knock capable of RON 98. :(


But for Euro Accords, stock car, really got to test it on Dyno to decide which fuel to use.

And again for tuned car.

Me I only have experience on tuned Turbo cars, so I should allow for discrepancies in fuel behaviour amongst NA or Turbo I think. Possible that Shell is better than Mobil or BP Ultimate is better than Shell, etc,... I am still deciding, and open minded about this yet! :)


But I wont be tuning my car anytime soon, so might try diff fuels, then see the Maximum G-Force I can pull in each gear to determine which is better ;)

[h22accord]

1st of all someone has to pay for the war in the middle east; its not howard and bush its us,thats why we are paying high fuel prices to maintain the yanks.

[h22accord]

Guys ive been using VORTEX for years now and every second tank i add a octane boost,ive tryed BP not bad but less MPG and SHELL for me is crap;last time i used it the motor just rattled and pinged.I have a JDM h22a IN my 96 accord and i need higher octone fuel as jap spec cars are higher compression engines and require higher octane to run properly.But the jap cars that are sent to Australia are made for our crap fuel,thats why the jap spec EURO has more HP than the Australian model.

[yfin]

But the jap cars that are sent to Australia are made for our crap fuel,thats why the jap spec EURO has more HP than the Australian model.

Does the jap spec Euro hav more HP? Do you know the figure?

Re the "crap fuel" point - that is exactly what I thought too. Reading this, however, just makes me confused - he raves about our 98 ron in Australia:

http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=230

[h22accord]

Just of the top of head your looking at Australian spec 140kw/223nm to Jap spec 147kw/232nm.With the fuel yes thats great 98 octane but if the australian spec engines are built to run on 91/92 octane fuel just like our holdens there australian built and made to run on 91/92 octane fuel.Japan makes cars for australia to run on 92 oct.Japans normal fuel is 98oct ours is 92oct thats why theres a difference HP.

[aaronng]

Does the jap spec Euro hav more HP? Do you know the figure?

I'm not sure if you can call it more HP.... Because there is an engine in the JDM line up with the exact same power figure. The 2.4L sedans have 147kW, while the 2.4 AWD wagon has 140kW. I can't say for sure if we get less power or if we got the engine from the 4WD wagon.

[h22accord]

Lets not get confused,lets compare a apple with a apple.If you want to compare cars lets go to a integra type R 2003 model australian spec K20A 147KW/ japanese spec K20A 164KW.IF you look into the net and spec out jdm models to USA and aust models you,ll see the power difference and also write-ups on why the diff for example usa#aust 91/92 octane/jap 98/100 octane the difference in fuel.

[aaronng]

Lets not get confused,lets compare a apple with a apple.If you want to compare cars lets go to a integra type R 2003 model australian spec K20A 147KW/ japanese spec K20A 164KW.IF you look into the net and spec out jdm models to USA and aust models you,ll see the power difference and also write-ups on why the diff for example usa#aust 91/92 octane/jap 98/100 octane the difference in fuel.
The australian 2003 Type R has a K20A2 though, while the JDM is a K20A (no "2"). If the cars were exactly the same, then a drop in power could be attributed to the fuel but the Type R did not have brembo brakes. Makes me wonder if they did tone it down so that only Japan had the real Type R.

Anyone know if Japan uses RON, MON or PON? US uses PON, Australia uses RON. And the TSX is specified for 91 PON, which is the equivalent of 95 RON. So even though the Accord Euro is specified to use the same octane rating as the TSX, we still make less power. Also the TSX has a K24A2 and we have the K24A3. The difference in engine codes makes me think that they purposely put in the 140kW engine and the loss of 7kW is not from the petrol difference. I guess in the future when they do a model upgrade, they'll put in the 147kW engine and then later on put in the 2006 TSX engine (which I think is extra 5hp over 2005)

[Suntzu]

I tried Ampol Gold on a round trip of 600kms. It was fine. Seemed as good as the caltex stuff.

[h22accord]

ampol gold and caltex vortex is the same staff,caltex bought ampol out many years ago.
k20a and k20a2 are the same engines ones JDM which has higher compresion which is made to run on higher octane fuel and the other for THE AUSTRALIAN MARKET which is made to run on our crap fuel.The number is to tell you for which market the motor is made for.Doesnt mean that if you use high octane fuel on australian spec hondas your going to get the same power gain as the jdm spec.Any way in the future if you do serious engine work on your car they,ll tell you that you,ll have to run on higher octane.

[aaronng]

If the k20a and k20a2 have different compression ratios, that means that the pistons are different. Also, from info when Hondata released their reflash for the k20a, they specified that the k20a has a wider throttle body as well as larger diameter headers. If the k20a makes its peak torque at a different rpm to the k20a2, then I suspect that the cams are different as well.

[Banana]

ok guys, pplz in parra area.

A couple weeks ago i was in parra to pick up a friend of mine at the BP servo on grt western hwy in parra. when i was waiting the fuel truck truck guy came in and was Re-filling the petrol silo's. So i went to chat to him aas i waiting for my friend. i asked him how BP ultimate compared to other petrols such as optimax. He said all the servo's in parra area get there petrol from the same manufacturer, dunnoz the name. but he said he fills up petrol for other petrols station as well, such as shell, caltex, no sure about mobil though.
But my thoughts is that the servo adds other stuff to the petrol they get, but we still dun know this.

[aaronng]

Most of the petrols come from the same refiner. Just blended to different specs for each brand. Does he go from station to station or does he go back to the refinery everytime after refilling one station? If he goes back, he might be getting a different load each time.

[yfin]

Most of the petrols come from the same refiner. Just blended to different specs for each brand. Does he go from station to station or does he go back to the refinery everytime after refilling one station? If he goes back, he might be getting a different load each time.

Not unusual for the servo to take all the compartments of the tanker. In terms of the servo - banana - they don't add anything to the fuel. You are talking about individual tanks that can hold large amounts (eg 40,000 litres for one product). You will appreciate that the servo can't mix anything given those quantities.

With the standard fuel - eg unleaded it doesn't surprise me that the smaller distributors use the same fuel. They used to do the same when my family ran a servo (until the late 1990s). It just depends on which area you are in and which distributor can offer the best gate price. We mostly ran BP fuel but sometimes Shell if it was cheaper. It came in the same tanker by the same driver. The customer never knew the difference. (This was totally legal by the way)

I don't know enough about how the 98 rons are distributed as we never stocked it back then.

[aDe]

bp ultimate are the best here in wa, i heard vortex98 are the best in eastern state right ?

[V205]

I've been using optimax since the euro was bought. Yesterday, I decided to try the shell ultra (95ron) and see how much difference it makes. Will see if the mileage is affected much. I do mostly start/stop driving even though the average trip would be about 30 mins for 10 km. Ultra is 4c cheaper than optimax. If the ECU is not able to advance timing to take advantage of 98... then the $ may be wasted?

Even with the $2 saving per tank.. it's probably worthwhile spending it to err on the higher ron side.

But I'll see how this goes...

(i pumped in 55L so there's about 10L of of optimax to dilute)

EDIT: Does anyone else here use 95RON fuel regularly (instead of 98) on their euro?

[BiLL|z0r]

I prolly use 95RON 1/2 the time and 98 RON the other half. Depends where I am and what bowser is free. I never go 3 tanks though without filling up with 98RON (usually BP).
I notice an economy difference, get about 50km's more on 98RON but no real power difference.

[V205]

The euro appears to be able to take advantage of the 98 over the 95 based on what you've experienced.

But what type of driving though to get that 50km difference?



I prolly use 95RON 1/2 the time and 98 RON the other half. Depends where I am and what bowser is free. I never go 3 tanks though without filling up with 98RON (usually BP).
I notice an economy difference, get about 50km's more on 98RON but no real power difference.

[BiLL|z0r]

I do mostly city driving, avg 38km's/hr (according to another car doing the same job).

[cupnoodle]

My god, i had no idea that there was a difference in fuel types depending on the petrol station. I always just went to the one with the lowest cost/L. Thanks for the insight.

[aaronng]

Also, Optimax, Ultimate and Synergy 8000 are 10 cents more expensive than regular 91 octane. Vortex 98 on the other hand is 11 cents more!

[EuroAccord13]

I've made the switch to Optimax from BP now, thanks to the rising prices and well, I have heaps of COLES docket to use up :D...

Would prefer to use Ultimate because it's cleaner but at this time.. Optimax is the go for me.... Sadly....

[Thorn2004]

A little off my topic here, but here is another reason I go to Shell, when I filled up there last on Monday the guy behind the counter asked which bowser I was using, when I told him he said "Oh the Euro owner, damn nice car dude, is that this years model?". I said yeah it is this years luxury model with the bigger rims etc then he said "What would you give her out of 10, I reckon it deserves a 10, I love Euro's and yours looks damn nice in red"!

Ok so now that he inflated my ego I am going to this particular Shell every time :D Anyone else have this sorta thing happen? (The Milano Red Euro looks damn nice clean and under those Servo lights btw, gotta take some happy snaps!) :)

[eurosp]

Also, Optimax, Ultimate and Synergy 8000 are 10 cents more expensive than regular 91 octane. Vortex 98 on the other hand is 11 cents more!

I notice Vortex is normally 6-7 cents more in Melbourne which I already think is too much. 11 cents is a lot more. :thumbdwn:

[Alpine]

I've made the switch to Optimax from BP now, thanks to the rising prices and well, I have heaps of COLES docket to use up :D...

Would prefer to use Ultimate because it's cleaner but at this time.. Optimax is the go for me.... Sadly....

I made the switch from BP Ultimate to Shell Optimax for the same reason too. Heaps of dockets (some 8c instead of 4c) and the rising prices.

However, since making the switch, I actually think the car runs a little smoother on Optimax than it does on Ultimate. It just seems really smooth.

[aaronng]

I notice Vortex is normally 6-7 cents more in Melbourne which I already think is too much. 11 cents is a lot more. :thumbdwn:
Vortex is only 95 oct. I like Vortex98. Feels like Synergy 8000 but with a 4 cent off voucher from Woolies. Think of it as 1 cent more than Optimax and 3 cents cheaper than Synergy8000. I found better consumption with Vortex98 over Optimax. I have been using it over a 5 month period.

[aaronng]

A little off my topic here, but here is another reason I go to Shell, when I filled up there last on Monday the guy behind the counter asked which bowser I was using, when I told him he said "Oh the Euro owner, damn nice car dude, is that this years model?". I said yeah it is this years luxury model with the bigger rims etc then he said "What would you give her out of 10, I reckon it deserves a 10, I love Euro's and yours looks damn nice in red"!

Ok so now that he inflated my ego I am going to this particular Shell every time :D Anyone else have this sorta thing happen? (The Milano Red Euro looks damn nice clean and under those Servo lights btw, gotta take some happy snaps!) :)
That happened at the Caltex that I used! I told him, "pump no. 5 please". And he said "Have you given a thought about lowering it? The Euro looks so nice when it is lowered with slightly larger rims. Do you have any plans for performance mods too?" :D

[Thorn2004]

That happened at the Caltex that I used! I told him, "pump no. 5 please". And he said "Have you given a thought about lowering it? The Euro looks so nice when it is lowered with slightly larger rims. Do you have any plans for performance mods too?" :D

Don't ya love the attention? :D I have even had a guy come up to me when filling up at a different Shell wanting to take a look at the car lol! I am serious, he was filling up infront of me and out of the blue just said "nice car, is that a Euro?". Next thing I know he is walkin over and asked if he could take a look coz he was thinking about buying one himself! I think I sold him with my tour! Another time 2 dudes were walking past my Euro in the driveway and stopped to take a look!

Gotta love Euro's :)

[aaronng]

Once when I stopped by at Harry's for a hot dog, I had just locked my car when this middle-aged guy came over and asked me how's the car. He said he had just bought the Accord VTi from Queensland and was going to drive it down!

[EuroAccord13]

I made the switch from BP Ultimate to Shell Optimax for the same reason too. Heaps of dockets (some 8c instead of 4c) and the rising prices.

However, since making the switch, I actually think the car runs a little smoother on Optimax than it does on Ultimate. It just seems really smooth.


Isn't BP linked with IGA or something? I don't like IGA... Overpriced.....:wave:

[eurotrash]

i have had four people knock on the door and ask if i wanna sell my euro?!

there is def something about the car.......

BP ultimate btw.

[eurosp]

Vortex is only 95 oct. I like Vortex98. Feels like Synergy 8000 but with a 4 cent off voucher from Woolies. Think of it as 1 cent more than Optimax and 3 cents cheaper than Synergy8000. I found better consumption with Vortex98 over Optimax. I have been using it over a 5 month period.

I only see the word Vortex, or premium unleaded at the caltex, at least the Caltex I go to. Can any confirm if there are Vortex98 in Melbourne?

[aaronng]

Vortex is only 95 octane. Maybe it hasn't started selling in Melbourne. In Sydney, the Vortex logo has a green background while the Vortex98 has a gray background.

[eurosp]

Vortex is only 95 octane. Maybe it hasn't started selling in Melbourne. In Sydney, the Vortex logo has a green background while the Vortex98 has a gray background.

Yeah, it is the Green Vortex Logo. I have to look around for the Vortex98 now.

[Catcha]

we don't get Vortex here. But We do have caltex, and I always see a BP Tanker pull up to fill the Caltex station. So Caltex here is actually BP is it the same down south ?

[aaronng]

we don't get Vortex here. But We do have caltex, and I always see a BP Tanker pull up to fill the Caltex station. So Caltex here is actually BP is it the same down south ?
My hypothesis (guess) is that for 91 octane, most of the stations of different brands get their petrol from the same source. So they are all the same. Only at 98 and maybe even 95 octane, the refinery makes it to the specification that the company wants.

[nexace]

Isn't BP linked with IGA or something? I don't like IGA... Overpriced.....:wave:

Yeap but not all IGA's give you the 4c discount coupon :thumbdwn:

And it's even more frustrating when it happens at the local store...and there's a BP just down the road from it with Ultimate.

[aaronx88]

Anyone has an opinion on the new Shell Extreme 100Ron with 5% ethanol? It is only available in limited servo.

[BiLL|z0r]

yer, it's a rip off.

[aaronng]

We only need 95 octane. With the 98 octanes here in australia, they were formulated to be of higher density, so they give better mileage. But the 100 octane I suspect is a 98 octane with 5% added ethanol. The ethanol gives 2 points extra octane to make 100. It should therefore be cheaper to produce than Optimax 98 octane.

[Euro Ricko]

At first i will be putting Vortech 95ron in mine, as it supported 245rwkw in my Commodore without a trace of knock, so it should be pretty good for the Euro i reckon.

[Ferrarista]

I made the switch from BP Ultimate to Shell Optimax for the same reason too. Heaps of dockets (some 8c instead of 4c) and the rising prices.

However, since making the switch, I actually think the car runs a little smoother on Optimax than it does on Ultimate. It just seems really smooth.
This is an argument ive said over and over on this site, the car runs smoother on BP Ultimate..i love it and i was a massive Shell fanboy due to their Ferrari connection but ive since seen the light.

[V205]

How about mileage? WHich is prolly hte most important factor?


This is an argument ive said over and over on this site, the car runs smoother on BP Ultimate..i love it and i was a massive Shell fanboy due to their Ferrari connection but ive since seen the light.

[aaronng]

How about mileage? WHich is prolly hte most important factor?
The most important is the amount of throttle you give and the amount of load that the engine is having.

The gear you are in and the RPM just changes the amount of load and throttle.

[V205]

Fair comment, but the objective is to quantify the value of the fuel.


The most important is the amount of throttle you give and the amount of load that the engine is having.

The gear you are in and the RPM just changes the amount of load and throttle.

[aaronng]

Fair comment, but the objective is to quantify the value of the fuel.
If just on the fuel side, then it would have to be the amount of energy that the fuel can give you for a fixed amount. Since Optimax and a few other 98 octanes are supposedly higher density, they should give you more energy per unit weight and so you need less of it to reach your desired speed.