under.. UNDER!!!

[fried]

under-steering.

is this when u turn, and the steering wheel is not turned enough, so ur car isnt turning as much as u would like it too?

or is it the phenomina when ur trying to turn, but ur *sliding* forwards instead, (losing traction)?

[fried]

or, are both those examples of understeering, the second just being that the car is moving too fast for the corner?

[Redteg]

God bless touge!

I take it as being the front end of the car pushing towards the outside of the corner, thus, the car turning less than necesary, whereas oversteer is the rear of the car pushing out, forcing the car to turn too much.

I'd say its only when at speed.

[wynode]

Understeering is the tendancy for your car to not follow your direction of steering.

[tinkerbell]

Understeering is the tendancy for your car to not follow your direction of steering.

this could aslo define 'oversteering'

understeering is when you are turning the wheels but still going straighter than desired...

over steering is where you are turning the wheels by the car is rotating more than desired...

[tinkerbell]

under-steering.

is this when u turn, and the steering wheel is not turned enough, so ur car isnt turning as much as u would like it too?

or is it the phenomina when ur trying to turn, but ur *sliding* forwards instead, (losing traction)?

so - no in the 1st case, yes in the second case

[fried]

in the second case.. if im losing traction, does that possibly mean im understeering but ALSO going to fast?

[wynode]

Yeah true I was vague

[Redteg]

in the second case.. if im losing traction, does that possibly mean im understeering but ALSO going to fast?

Modifications to your suspension, tyres and possibly corner approach would allow you to go through a corner quicker with less or no understeer. The cheapest way to reduce understeer though is to go slower into a corner and not accelerate out of the corner too early or too hard. I guess that would also depend on the road surface and condition, outright grip being another factor.

Going slower = reducing the instance of understeer/oversteer

There's this awesome book I found on handling and vehicle dynamics. When I dig it up I'll send you the name and author fried, it makes for some very interesting reading.

Rule #1 of Aerospace Engineering: Instability = Manoeuvreability (well, maybe not rule #1, but, its up there, rule #1 should incorporate lift coefficients or something; you get my drift Fried) Car setup should be paramount to how it can take corners and do the boring bits in between the corners.

***Disclaimer*** I once set foot on a racetrack but I have never raced my car (Raced plenty of 1/10 races though where the car's handling can be changed cheaply and in a flash), so if I'm incorrect, forgive me fried and please be nice to me everyone else. You don't want to see me type angrily on the internet, I make people cry!

[tinkerbell]

in the second case.. if im losing traction, does that possibly mean im understeering but ALSO going to fast?

no, it doesnt.

understeering can be casued by going too fast,

but going too fast does not always cause understeer...

very subtle ;)

[Kit]

it nearly all standard cars, understeering is 9/10 caused by going too fast for the corner...

Car manufacturers design and make cars understeer on the limit cos understeer is easier to correct than oversteer (most people will back off the throttle when they sense a loss of traction, which will quell understeer).
its called the "wally factor" :) meaning if you drive like a wally, the car will understeer.

understeer can also be caused by jumping too hard on the throttle mid corner (in an FF car), hence spinning your front wheels, losing tracton and causing understeer.

[tinkerbell]

Car manufacturers design and make cars understeer on the limit cos understeer is easier to correct than oversteer



hence why the first suspension upgrade (if trying to get more track oriented handling) is usually fitting a bigger rear sway bar...

[Kit]

The cheapest way to reduce understeer though is to go slower into a corner and not accelerate out of the corner too early or too hard. I guess that would also depend on the road surface and condition, outright grip being another factor.

Going slower = reducing the instance of understeer/oversteer


well... not really, by going slower, you aren't changing the car's characteristics on the limit, you are just not driving on the limit :)

the cheapest way to reduce understeer is start playing with your tyre pressures front and rear so that the car behaves differently on the limit.
although, i recommend doing this on a track or somewhere cos there really is no safe place to do it on teh street

[tinkerbell]

well... not really, by going slower, you aren't changing the car's characteristics on the limit, you are just not driving on the limit :)

the cheapest way to reduce understeer is start playing with your tyre pressures front and rear so that the car behaves differently on the limit.
although, i recommend doing this on a track or somewhere cos there really is no safe place to do it on teh street

well, yes it is the cheapest - but least optimal.

tyre pressure should be set so that you are achieving optimum traction, and the suspension settings should be changed to provide optimal handling...

but yeah - if the only adjustment you have at your disposal is tyre pressure, then you can tune in or out understeer, to the detriment of total traction...

[wynode]

2 ways you can reduce understeer in a FWD short of changing springs/shocks

1. Larger rear sway bar to reduce body roll and increase tyre grip
2. Castor kit in order to provide dynamic camber.

[Redteg]

Nothing wrong with going slow! hehe

[Kit]

there is another way to reduce understeer in your FWD honda, and that is to take out/disconnect your front sway bar altogether.

[tinkerbell]

there is another way to reduce understeer in your FWD honda, and that is to take out/disconnect your front sway bar altogether.

LOL!

good for motorkhana action at least...

[Kit]

LOL!

good for motorkhana action at least...

which is exactly what the guys in the US competing in the Motorkhana's actually do

[carbine]

A balanced ff car usually isn't a fast car. Generally an ff has better grip when it has natural understeer.

[Kit]

A balanced ff car usually isn't a fast car. Generally an ff has better grip when it has natural understeer.

eh? what are you talking about?!

p.s. grip and handling are different things, but people confuse them as being the same thing. So why would understeer = better grip?

[bennjamin]

Kit has a point. WHAT are most of u talkign about lol....plz dont make this another spam " im right and j00 is wrong " opinionated thread fellas !!!.....

*THIS close to locking :)*

[Ironfist]

If you take out your front sway bar to reduce undeersteer in a FF, won't that increase oversteer?

IMO Oversteer in a FF is way harder to control.

If your understeering too much just tap on the brakes and the arse should kick out a bit so that your car is pointing to where your steering. But obviously if you had to tap the brakes to correct your turn your probably travelling to fast for the corner.

[Kit]

If you take out your front sway bar to reduce undeersteer in a FF, won't that increase oversteer?


yes it would increase oversteer, its not very practical in real life circumstances, but the guys in the US who compete in Motokhanas do it all the time :)

[tinkerbell]

yes it would increase oversteer, its not very practical in real life circumstances, but the guys in the US who compete in Motokhanas do it all the time :)

i dont think they only do it in the US...
:D

[toE]

back from the dead!

From here (http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/tracking.htm)


http://www.indyracing.com/indycar/modules/images/pushing.jpg

http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/chassis_and_handling/understeer.jpg
http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/chassis_and_handling/oversteer.jpg

[SIKCVC]

hahaha reminds me of the old tamiya RC booklet :P