Timing belt replacement (B16A2)

[omgzilla]

Doing the timing belt on my EK4 (manual) and just wondering what is the best way to lock the engine once its set at TDC? ...whilst trying to remove the crank pulley.

[Drew]

Theres a plastic tool that Bursons sell

U place it between the two cam gears and as u spread it out it locks into the teeth on the gears and then you tighten so that they dont slip

EDIT Pic

This one appears to be metal
http://www.sulco.co.nz/products/598/466/551/medium/3206266.jpg

[hyrpm]

theres markings on the engine shouldnt need to lock it just make shore you find the markings

[Drew]

He was wondering how you get it to not slip once you match the cams and crank with the markings?

It does happen sometimes that once you set it to TDC and you maybe knock a gear and it springs off of TDC

[omgzilla]

Thanks for clearing that up Drew.

I am trying to lock the engine so that it is locked on TDC so I can then remove the (very tight) crank pulley bolt - without the engine moving from TDC.

Any other suggestions than the cam locking tool?

[Drew]

Not really no

[Edgeauto]

In the rocker assy rails there are 2 holes, 1 will matchup with a hole in the cam, put a punch or similar thru and it will lock the cam.

[TODA AU]

In the rocker assy rails there are 2 holes, 1 will matchup with a hole in the cam, put a punch or similar thru and it will lock the cam.

Agreed, the holes are there to align the cams instead of using the tool listed above...
But I disagree they could be used to lock the engine & undo the crank bolt.
IMO this would likley cause damage to the engine.

omgzilla, have you tried putting it in gear & having a freind stand on the brake pedal while you swing off the crank bolt with a large breaker bar with an extension added?
Failing that, you may have to get to someone with a large enough rattle gun to do the job.

[omgzilla]

Thanks Edge and Toda!

Will give the breaker and friend helper thing out on Monday arvo - had thought of this previously but thanks for the tip regardless.

Might have to bring home my rattle gun and borrow a compressor. Will my 500ft/lb gun be enough for the job?

[TODA AU]

Thanks Edge and Toda!

Will give the breaker and friend helper thing out on Monday arvo - had thought of this previously but thanks for the tip regardless.

Might have to bring home my rattle gun and borrow a compressor. Will my 500ft/lb gun be enough for the job?

NP...
500ft/lb gun should do the trick...
Just be sure it's oiled up & there's plenty of pressure. :thumbsup:

[Edgeauto]

LOL i guess i should have read the post properly. that is only to lock the cam to keep them in place while the belt is off. there are a few tools out there to lock the crank pulley like this 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE-pzP8g_x4 . a tool like this should also be use to torque up the crank bolt when installing it.

[omgzilla]

Awesome! Might have to grab one of these tools!

The place that sells them: DenLorsTools also have a sweet Valve Adjustment tool!
http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_7258_125/valve_adjustment_tool_for_cars_with_ten_mm_jam_nut .html

Thanks!

[Edgeauto]

Those valve adjustment tools make life so much easier. Thats almost identical to the snap-on 1 which is about $130

[omgzilla]

It'd probably only be about $40 landed here. I might grab one! :)

[omgzilla]

have you tried putting it in gear & having a freind stand on the brake pedal while you swing off the crank bolt with a large breaker bar with an extension added?

Tried = Failed! :(


Failing that, you may have to get to someone with a large enough rattle gun to do the job.

Going to hit it tomorrow with 1000ft/lb rattle gun.

Now tightening it is another issue!

Rattle gun? Loctite?

[fatboyz39]

As per torque specs. Think its about 78ft pound or 80 ft pounds??? Not much at all. Its the same torque specs as the flywheel bolts.

Loctite not needed. Just torque it up right.

If you have the right tool, crank pulley piss easy to take off.

[omgzilla]

I don't have the tool :(

According to the workshop manual the torque spec is 177nM :|

[tinkerbell]

crank pully is 180lb/ft fatboys!

omgzilla - i use a bout a 2m length of 8mm dia nylon rope, inserted into the number 4 cylinder through the sparkplug hole with the piston at BDC,

then turn the crank until the rope gets coiled up in the combustion chamber.

then i use a 6ft breaker bar to loosen the crank pulley bolt.

but do so at your own risk.

[omgzilla]

Thanks for the tip tinkerbell.

I've got a T&E Tools 50mm Hex Crank Pulley tool on order - arrives tomorrow. :)

Will report back once i've (hopefully) got it off!

[omgzilla]

Ok so I got the crank pulley tool...

I put a 1/2" bar on the crank pulley tool and rested it against the ground. Then put 2 small 1/2" extensions on the crank pulley bolt socket (19mm) and put my 3/8" breaker bar on the extensions (with 1/2" to 3/8" step down adaptor), on the end of that I put my 3ft pipe so I could get some decent leverage. Got about 45 degrees of flex and then SNAP! - The knuckle broke right off my 3/8" breaker bar :(

Tried again, this time using the pipe to hold the crank pulley tool, rested on the ground. Then put the 1/2" breaker bar (about 3ft) on the end of the (2 small) extensions. Again I get about 45 degrees of flex and its still not budging!

I'm a bit worried about shearing the thing off now...

I'm using a little trolley thing as a pivot point at the end of the extensions where they meet the breaker bar knuckle.

I'm pretty sure i'm going to have to try and get a decent length single extension happening. I reckon i'm losing alot of force by having two smaller extensions. The tool is doing its job I guess, the thing must just be insanely tight!

I'll try getting the big single extension, failing that - it's going back together and i'm taking it into work and getting a 1,000ft/lb rattle gun onto it!

So pissed of right now!

[tinkerbell]

have you sprayed with Penitrine or WD-40?

you need a 5ft or more breaker bar extension.

just slowly ease it down, do not bounce it!

start the bar at about 11o'clock and it should get to about 9 oclock before it cracks...

two smaller extensions are fine (high quality of course), that is what i use,

it is the leverage on the breaker bar that is important, that is why i say 5ft extension plus... (i dont know you size, so maybe more if you are skinny like me - or get a fat bloke to do it, seriously!)

just dont bounce it!

i have used a 12ft extension once to break a stubborn axel nut loose before -using a standard 1/2in breaker bar - so they can take the force, just not any boucing...

good luck...

[omgzilla]

Thanks tinkerbell.

I'm 6'4" and about 87kg's so i'm far from a lightweight. I had all my weight on it and the bar is about 3 foot.

I think i might have to get a bigger breaker bar!

I've spray heaps of WD-40 on it - i kept putting a bit more spray on it like half an hour before attempts.

[tinkerbell]

ha ha!

sweet, well you WILL be able to do it - no worries, jsut get a loooong bit of pipe (5ft+), and pull slowly down from 11 oclock... it WILL crack, just hold on tight & do it slowly but steady...

[omgzilla]

Will give it a go mate, thanks again.

(+Rep)

[fatboyz39]

don't give up....you'll get there.

[ECU-MAN]

try this method

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32257

[omgzilla]

Tried that ECU-MAN.

Thanks anyways.

Going to see if anyone at work has a longer breaker bar.

Will let you know how I go.

[tinkerbell]

no - you DONT need a longer breaker bar - you need a long bit of metal pipe! like wire fence poles etc...

you slide the pipe over the end of the breaker bar...

sorry if that wasn't clear from my posts!

[Shorty]

Remember you must torque it up when you putting it back together,you wount be happy if it comes loose and damage the crank.

[Drew]

Get a breaker bar or a T bar with a 1" drive

Make sure you're trying to undo it the right way around and not doing it up :p

lol ECUMAN I have the same impact gun :P

[omgzilla]

Get a breaker bar or a T bar with a 1" drive

Make sure you're trying to undo it the right way around and not doing it up :p

I think the 1/2" bar should be fine. I'll get another big pipe from work tomorrow, so I can swing off the end of that.

I'm undoing it anti-clockwise, like any normal right hand thread.

[TODA AU]

Anti-clockwise is correct...

Have you hit the crank bolt with a hammer or hammer & drift?
3~4 sharp cracks on the head of the bolt then try again.

Failing than we only use a 3/4 drive rattle gun to remove them as it's almost guaranteed to get it out 1st time.

[omgzilla]

So this afternoon I brought home (2x) 3 foot breaker bars (1x to hold the crank pulley tool and 1x to hang off), a long single extension and a 3 foot pipe for leverage.

Set it all up like this:

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1678/setup1rc2.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/884/setup2mu4.jpg

had a good hang off it and managed to break the extension haha

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7697/brokedbv3.jpg

Then put 2x smaller extensions together and had another go - broke another extension hahah *sigh*

Will have a go at the hammer and drift technique TODA.

This is the last straw - if this doesn't work it is all going back together and i'm taking it into work and getting serious with it.

...just worried about snapping the head off it now!

Thanks for all the help dudes - much appreciated!!!

[Edgeauto]

If you can get the car high enough so you dont need an extension you should be able to put enough force to loosen it, but to do this you will probably need a hoist anyway.

[omgzilla]

Yeah, thats what i'm thinking hey. Pretty sure i'm losing alot of force through the extension bar.

They make it look so easy here: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=RE-pzP8g_x4

[fatboyz39]

that extension is TOOO LONG...it'll never work...Not enough torque in that position.

Just need a deepsocket and a 1/2' breaker bar..the swing the hammer and hope it loosens. ECU-MAN vid is a good example

[tinkerbell]

hmmm, that extyension is pretty long...

i use a 30cm one + a 15cm one joined together...

both are Sidchrome...

maybe two small ones joined will twist less than one long one?

[B20NA]

have you tried putting it into gear,




Thanks for clearing that up Drew.

I am trying to lock the engine so that it is locked on TDC so I can then remove the (very tight) crank pulley bolt - without the engine moving from TDC.

Any other suggestions than the cam locking tool?

[omgzilla]

that extension is TOOO LONG...it'll never work...Not enough torque in that position.

Just need a deepsocket and a 1/2' breaker bar..the swing the hammer and hope it loosens. ECU-MAN vid is a good example

I need the extension so I can get enough swing on it, from outside the gaurds. Maybe i need do need to get it onto the hoist at work.


hmmm, that extyension is pretty long...

i use a 30cm one + a 15cm one joined together...

both are Sidchrome...

maybe two small ones joined will twist less than one long one?

That extension wouldn't be much longer than that at all. The pic makes it look longer - but the extension only just comes out past the gaurd. I've tried with 2x smaller extensions rather than 1x long one.


have you tried putting it into gear,

Yes! The crank pulley tool locks it at the crank, instead of letting the force, applied to the bolt, flex through the engine/gearbox.

[tinkerbell]

have you tried a bit of heat from a gas torch?

[dai-16t]

Beat me to it. Get the oxy set out and heat the head of the bolt till it is red hot. Then undo it with the rattle gun. This will get it off no problem I promise as I use this technique at work quiet often.

If you dont have a rattle gun the technique you were previously using will suffice. Try not to use such a long extension though as you are losing too much force in the twist of the extension.

[omgzilla]

have you tried a bit of heat from a gas torch?

Yeah, i'm gonna try this at work.

It's all going back together now. I've exhausted all the things I can try at home now.

*sigh* the thing laughed at everything i've thrown at it... will report back once its off.

Thanks again guys for all your help.

[fatboyz39]

hate to be in your shoes now.... hopefully you do get it off.

[omgzilla]

FINALLY GOT IT OFF!!!

Wooot!

Took the car into work and used the Crank Pulley Tool to brace the pulley, got a mates 1000ft.lb rattlegun onto it and it didn't budge in normal reverse action, so we oiled the gun up (to get a better seal and whatnot) and did the old 'forward-reverse-forward-reverse' trick and it finally came off.

I almost wet myself with excitement hahaha. Was contemplating heating it up with the oxy etc if the gun didn't get it off, but didn't have to resort to that in the end.

So yeah, my crank pulley bolt sagas are at an end.

Thanks for watching and for all the advice dudes, legends!

:)

[tinkerbell]

congrats, lol!