Spacers ? Clearance between Caliper & Wheel ?

[Sexc86]

Hey guys

Will be needing to run wheel spacer for my spoon twin block calipers and my buddyclub P1's 15 x 6.5 42 offset.

what i have done thus far is purchased a heap of 1mm Washers that will fit over my wheel bolts to slowly move the wheel out from the hub so i know when it will clear.

My question is... what is the Rule of thumb.. (generally) with what is a good amount of space to have been the caliper face and the wheel?

update* just played around with some washers. now 3mm Inner spaceing + 3mm outer spaceing will give me aprox 5mm clearance between my caliper and wheel. anyone know if this is acceptable? or would i need more?

thanks in advance guys.

Regards Lyle

[BADHBT]

30mm means 30x 1mm spacers!

hope you mean 3mm.. general rule of thumb is the closer your wheels are to your hub the better it will be, performance, control and safety... further out will means more stress to your lugs

[thebob]

Big spacers can lead to front end vibrations.

[Eclipsor]

I've got about 1mm at the most clearance between inside of the wheel spoke and caliper.

30mm is a big ass spacer. Dunno if I'd be comfortable with that.

[Sexc86]

ahaha yeh sorry abit tired.... 3 mm inner and 3 mm outer will give me around 5mm clearance between caliper and wheel.

And really my main question is ' how much clearance between the caliper face and the wheel will be safe? ' takeing into account everything is not perfect and even though something my clear being stationary... it may react differently under load or high heat conditions. (stretch / flex / wobble)

i personally think 5mm would be fine but would like some more opinions!

[thebob]

2-3 would be enough. 5mm just seems like over kill but in the same token never can be to safe eh?

[Limbo]

mate when i said spacers i thought you actually meant spacers not washers!
That's bloody dangerous, washers are not that strong (Pic below of spacer you need)

This is what you want.

P.S there is no real need to have that much spacing between the caliper and wheel. Even 1mm is fine so long as they clear. The issue is getting your caliper and rotor to be properly in line. Make sure you do that first before you work out wheel offsets

http://i17.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/b3/e3/5b17_1.JPG

[Eclipsor]

Yep. As long as everything is fitted properly it's not going to move. Granted, I havn't had mine on the track. But I've been driving every day for about 2 years with that much clearance. I think my other wheels have even less. fkn accords.

I would try and find some spacers specific to your stud pattern rather than those generic 4 stud ones. There is a fair bit of movement in those, hard to get them mounted central.

[SNKS2K]

i used these dodgy spacer rings that came with my wheels and that gave me a spacing of 6 mm.

but i drove around for 5 mins and then checked the wheel nuts. They were loose already.
make sure your wheel nuts dont come loose man.

No way was i gonna drive around like that. so i got a custom plate made for my wheels with a 3 mm gap.

get a spacer plate that gives you the biggest surface area possible to eliminate movement.

As Limbo said, DONT USE THE WASHERS.

[JasonGilholme]

OEM distance between my wheel and caliper is about 2mm or even less. You don't need much. and if you've got movement between your brake caliper and your wheel then something is seriously loose and you should get it repaired.

[scyt7e]

lol washers are def not safe, i dont know about you but when i used 5mm spacers could only tighten the nuts three rounds... just get new rims, spacers aren't legal anyway

[Sexc86]

WTF.... did i explain something wrong...

i bought a heap of 1mm washers, so i could test fit the rotor / caliper combination and slower increase untill it fit.

Eg start with 1 washer on each stud... *wont clear, then add a extra washer on each stud (increaseing the gap to 2 mm) ... *still wont clear... Add 1 more washer on each studs giveing a total of 3 x 1mm washers on each stud.

* finally the wheel clears the caliper and moves freely.

Now i know 100% sure that i will need a 3mm spacer. Rather then just going and buying some universal 5mm / 8mm spacer. And thinking yes... this will probably work but will i actually *NEED* this much clearance..

And the whole point of me doing this is to find out what is the size of the smallest spacer i can get away with... And then get them custom fabricated so the are exacly the same as the front and rear of the rotor face. Complete metal surface everywhere, except for 4 large holes (for the wheel studs) and 2 small holes (for the rotor screws)

Now everything (inner spacer, rotor and outer spacer) can all be bolted to the hub as one unit and not sit there free floating.

[dynosaur]

how was the result now ? all done ?

[Sexc86]

Negative... just actually dropped them off today to get machined... will do a write up when they are done

[black200is]

i'd be more inclined to buy some p1's with better offsets, or even grind down the calipers than dare put spacers on your wheels. Spacers are rubbish in my opinion :)

[Sexc86]

i will see how they run first.... I need inner spacers regardless between my hub and rotor...

the external spacers are only due to the rims, will see how they run and feel. They will actually be bolted to the hub and cover the entire surface area ... if they dont hold up too well then i can look at getting different rims. Try the cheaper solution first.

[macoman69]

i'd be more inclined to buy some p1's with better offsets, or even grind down the calipers than dare put spacers on your wheels. Spacers are rubbish in my opinion :)

I guess thats why racecar teams use them huh :thumbsup:
(Alot of racecars have used spacers and proved that a small 5mm hubcentric spacer will not effect your car negatively in any way)
Hell i think racecars even go up to 20mm.

[ricki_kalsi]

Spacers are rubbish!!! Maximum you should be using to be "safe" is 2mm. This already gets rid of one whole thread of the wheels studs. As people have mentioned before, your wheels nuts will become loose, and could lead to your wheel falling off. Not safe!!!

If you want to use spacers, i would also be getting extended wheels studs.
These ARP ones are great - you can get them off Ebay.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4500/arpzw0.jpg

Better yet, get the correct offset to clear your calipers. This is the BEST option!

[Sexc86]

possibly.. as i said, will see how it goes... its much less effort to use spacers, and if they are properly made from steel that bolt on, dont see why they wont be fine..

and yes i have longer wheel studs.

[Eclipsor]

Can I ask where you're getting them made? What do you mean about them bolting on? Using the rotor screws?

[dynosaur]

Can I ask where you're getting them made? What do you mean about them bolting on? Using the rotor screws?

any garage which had CNC machine also can do this job.

this is the concept to put the studs in: http://autorepair.about.com/od/fixit..._stud_repl.htm

enjoy...:zip:

[Sexc86]

Found a Resonably priced machineing/enginnering place in brisbane / the gabba.

Basically the spacer will look exacly like this

http://i27.tinypic.com/28twdh0.jpg

and yes i will be getting longer rotor grub screws so that the spacers can be held on together with the rotor.

As i said once they are made ill to a write up on the brakes / spacesr / prices / where i got them made and prices etc

[Benson]

don't mind me asking how much are they?

[dynosaur]

and dun forget the dimensions of the spacer .

thanks :)

[Sexc86]

Benson - looked at some off shelf spacers and they are absolute rubbish and dont have nearly as much surface area. mine are custom made to the exact inside and outside diameter of my rotor.

Around brisbane i was quoted $90 each (360) and $70 each ($280) and the final place said $100 Cash if i supplied my own material. Which was $10 at the local metal scrap yard for Steel.


After i dummy fitted my 1mm washers around the studs, i roughly needed a 3mm inner (between rotor and hub).. To line the Caliper correctly center to the rotor and then another 3mm Outer (between rotor and wheel) to allow the wheel to clear the rotor.

I decided to go a 4mm outer just to have a little more clearance to be safe.
Im expecting the spacers finished by the end of the week, so will get some proper pictures / dimensions / info up.

[thebob]

I got my spacers made up ( i will post a photo up tomorrow). I went to Mendham engeenering at rocklea in brisbane. Spacers cost me $90 a side and thats for 10mm alloy. We matched the OD and ID of the brake rotor. then were the screw holes are in the rotor face we drilled the spacer in the same spot thus creating a tapped hole for a counter sunk screw to bond the spacer to the face of the rotor. Everything was balanced and seems to be good. As for spacers being rubbish, race cars run up to 20mm spacers. Provided you set it up right so there is no movement there really should be a problem. As for brisbane apparently there is a GREY area in the legals around spacers. If the spacer is fixed to the hib/ rotor it is deemed to be legal.

[Sexc86]

bobby! i got mine back today too ... wooohoo everything lines up and clears... 282mm rotors, spoon calipers and buddy club p1s with 42 offset.. used 3mm inner and 4mm outer spacers. all bolts together with the hub :D..... will get back to everyone with more details soon

[thebob]

I got the wheel studs replaced with longer ones and the wheel bearings changed aswell. There is 2 mm clearence at the most between the back of the rim and the face of the caliper. Only problem is now putting the knuckle back on, the place that pressed my hubs out squashed my bolts with the holes in them that mount the hub to the LCA. so now i have to re tap the bolts.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j103/ibobowns/102_0712.jpg
10mm spacer, ID and OD matched.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j103/ibobowns/102_0711.jpg
You can see the tapped and counter sunk mounting screws. these go into the rotor.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j103/ibobowns/102_0710.jpg
Clearence.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j103/ibobowns/102_0708.jpg
FINISHED product.

[Killa From Manila]

bling fcucking bling :thumbsup:

[Sexc86]

you bastard bob you beat me too it!

I too had wheel spacers made up. The exact ID and OD my rotor. Needed a 3mm inner spacer (between hub and rotor) and a 4mm outer spacer between rotor and wheel. As well i decided to go the longer wheel studs so i had the hub pressed out and new wheel bearings fitted. The wheel studs measureing a whopping 70mm!! so had to trim them back.


http://i31.tinypic.com/zpr2w.jpg


http://i26.tinypic.com/2m2x5yv.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/2uqzrci.jpg

End Result. inner spacer + rotor + outer spacer all bolted to the hub as 1 complete solid unit. no movement. caliper on dead center of rotor with Endless CCR pads

http://i29.tinypic.com/kdpiiu.jpg

Stud left outside of wheel after Trim. and clearance between Caliper and wheel.

http://i26.tinypic.com/33jtfno.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/ve0c8.jpg

Advan A048 Semi Slick Tyres
Endless CCR Brake pads
Rays Wheel studs
Buddyclub P1 15x6.5 42 Offset
282mm 4x100 Slotted rotors
Spoon 4 Piston Calipers
ADR approved Braided brake lines.

http://i27.tinypic.com/10yncxu.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/24mvyur.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/2wh1jdt.jpg

[dynosaur]

would u mind to draw the detail dimensions for inner and outer spacers for everybody .

It would help alot of members know how hard and fussy of this project....

thanks :)

[dynosaur]

so.... how many mm for the gap between rim and caliper ?

can wheel spacer ( outer spacer ) make it to 2mm thickness ? ( based on the photo shows it look like got 4mm gap...)

[dynosaur]

hey thebob ,

how many mm of the gap ? looks like between 1~2mm , dude :)

[thebob]

Yeah its around 2mm. Its close. Lyle you have you caliper on upside down. Bleed valves to the top mate.

[Sexc86]

Wtf are you sure? wouldnt it be on the bottom so you can drain out the fluid?

[dynosaur]

no man , it will cope some bubbles and form some pressure traped if up side down.

beware.... :)

[Sexc86]

can anyone confirm? has the bleeder got to be at the top or bottom

[dynosaur]

TOP~! 100% f**king sure :)

[thebob]

Look on the spoon site at a pic of the brakes fitted. It goes to the top.

[Sexc86]

typical Lyle Style workmanship.... WTF

[thebob]

haha, someone has to get it wrong.

[Eclipsor]

can anyone confirm? has the bleeder got to be at the top or bottom

You're trying to get air out not the fluid. Spacers and stuff looks good. :thumbsup:

[ek4-guy]

why yous going to the trouble with the grub screws my friends use these on 500+hp rwd's and ive never seen them attached.

on real wheel drives the disc isnt even attached it just slips over the studs

[thebob]

My disc isnt attached. The problem is the spacer can move on the face of the hub. This causes vibration. By putting the grub screws in there it fixes the spacer to the hub greatly reducing the chance of vibration. Also makes spacers legal.

[ek4-guy]

oh the holes in the spacer larger than the ones in the wheel then

doesn't the grub screw that ur extending attach the disc atm

[thebob]

Yes the tapped hex head screw you see in the spacer fixes the spacer to the rotor as previously said.

[dynosaur]

hey Sexc86 ,

would u mind to tell me the Inner & outer diameter of the inner spacer ? coz I m gonna make a pair gor my spoon caliper too.

thanks alot & appreciate for it ..... :)

[dynosaur]

I do have another question regarding to the disc rotor screw thread.

those photos show the rotor originally benn threaded for the bolts to screw in...

my question is..... what happen if the disc rotor doesn't exist ? do we need to drill a new one for align the spacer and rotor ?

thanks in advance :)

[thebob]

Your question doesnt make a hole lot of sense. The inner spacer has to be 3mm if you are running the spoon twin block caliper that isnt on the ITR or CTR setup. Eg, gli ek or eg6 or vtir DC will all need inner spacers of 3mm. As for the outer it will vary on what wheel you run. Lower offset giving you more clearence, but depending on the style of your wheel a high offset say 42+ may clear. Its not likely but depending on the clearence behind the spokes ok you wheel. I think lyle is running a 42+ wheel so he went with a 4mm spacer. I think most people get away with 3mm spacers on the spoon setup.

The grub screw is there to limit movement between the spacer and the rotor. Rotors come with the drill and tapped hole. That hole is used to break the seal of a rotor that may be stuck to the brake hub when removing.

[Sexc86]

hey mate... sorry the spacers are allready on the car. but if you wanted the fabricated just take the rotor to them and ask for what you want... (eg ID and OD of inside of rotor)

and i dont understand your question above ^

my spacers dont screw to the rotor... the all screw to the hub as 1 unit.. if that makes sense

[dynosaur]

my car is JDM ITR (96 Spec) .

but I also facing the same problem as Sexc86 ( need to put an inner spacer ).
therefore I need to know what thickness I need to prepare.

my rotor is Project Mu SCR-Pro, but it does not have any tapped hole . ( only got 114.3x4 PCD holes )


at this stage , I m concern the inner spacer thickness (mm).

may I know how much roughly the price of inner & outer spacer ?

[Sexc86]

ok first mount your caliper.. and see if its dead center to the rotor... if its not you will need a inner spacer. The thickness of the spacer will depend on how far out of center the caliper sits over the rotor. Its usually 3mm though.

The out spacer will depend on the Wheel you are running

and are you saying your rotor does not have holes for the grub screws to hold onto the hub? or does the hub have a thred for the grub screws to attach too?

[dynosaur]

the rotor only got PCD holes and nothing else... :)

[bennjamin]

the rotor only got PCD holes and nothing else... :)

No it should have 1-2 small holes for the screws to hold the rotor onto the hub too :)

[Sexc86]

maybe the jdm itrs dont have have rotor grub screws?

[CTR Coupe]

looks like your still suffering from the same problem that all spacers have and that is there is now no hub centric support for the wheel. This is the reason that most people snap wheel studs lose wheels etc. I think you will find that most race teams that run spacers still have hub centric ring support.

are you experiencing vibration at highway speeds 110-120?

[Sexc86]

cant say i am?

[Limbo]

should be ok some cars come with floating rotors from fractory i.e toyotas. THere is no probs as the wheel holds them all in place with the wheel nuts.
I'm only runing 1 grub screw in mine, but if i need to drill it i'd prob would have not bothered.

[CTR Coupe]

cant say i am?

i noticed a slight vibration at higher speeds when i had no hub centric wheel support while i was waiting on the correct support rings for my car.

[dynosaur]

hey Sexc86 ,

what metal u use for ur inner spacer ? Aluminium (normal or aircraft ALu )? stainless steel ?


hey CTR Coupe,

where could we get the hub centric ? prefer make by Aluminium or rubber ?

thanks x2