suggestions on sussy for everyday road use car

[[ricer]]

i have an EK and planning on going lower but i cant with my current sussy set up. so i might be going coilovers but have been told its really bad for everyday use. i drive 50kms a day and along some of the worst roads...

which suspension set up do you guys recommend

i was planning on buddyclub N+ but been told by 2 owners they're very harsh for everyday driving?

HSD is made is Taiwan from what im told...?

Tein SS dont go very low on EKs...?

thanks for your help guys

[hooyn]

just read another thread in the cl7 section. apparantly tein comfort sports are one of the best for everyday use. go take a look ;)

[Sir_vtec]

ive driven a em1 on hsd's. its smooth, i'd recommend it.

[[ricer]]

cool
i was actually looking for the thread lol

[JohnL]

;1537765']i have an EK and planning on going lower but i cant with my current sussy set up. so i might be going coilovers but have been told its really bad for everyday use. i drive 50kms a day and along some of the worst roads...

If you drive on the "worst roads" then anything other than a very slight drop is not going to be good for everday use. I also drive on some pretty awful roads (including a few k's of potholed dirt whenever I go anywhere), and actually raised the rear end on my CB7 Accord slightly to avoid the occassional rear end scrape (though the front has a very slight drop, the car now looking very slightly 'nose down').

I currently have stock springs with Koni yellows set at full stiff (not nearly as harsh as you might think, though a long way from a 'plush' ride),. I've fitted front and rear tower braces (home made but very rigid, don't bother with cheap floppy ones, they do almost nothing if they flex, particularly the mounting brackets can often be weak with cheap tower bars). These were a very worthwhile addition (don't listen to people who say tower braces do nothing much, they probably have cheap and flexible braces).

As yet I don't have an uprated rear ARB (next on list), but I have made modifications to the rear ARB that stiffen the linkages (all poly bushes in the rear ARB), and also stiffened the rear ARB mounting brackets / connections to the chassis and suspension, which are too soft /flexible in stock form. This makes the stock ARB behave as if were a bit stiffer than it actually is, though a stiffer rear ARB is still needed. Caster angle is also doubled from stock (very worthwhile mod!). Front camber is increased to -1.5°.

I also use very high tyre pressures, 38psi front and 45psi rear, the difference in front / rear pressure reflecting what the particular different brands of tyre fitted front / rear require to work well, found after a lot of experimenting with pressures (these are only the stock tyre size, the rear tyres with unforunately soft sidewalls, hence the much higher rear psi). What psi works best for each individual brand / model of tyre will be different, you need to experiment but not be afraid of trying quite high psi (being mindfull of the max inflation pressure marked on the sidewall). Tyre psi has a huge affect on steering response and grip, though max grip may or may not be acheived at the same psi as max response, experimentation required.

With these relatively minimal changes the car handles very well even on quite bumpy roads (and not skatey over bumpy surfaces as you might expect with stiff damper rates). Handling balance and response is very good, even if ultimate grip could be better (better tyres would fix this, as well as further improve steering / handling responsiveness). Having said that, grip is very good considering that the tyres are cheap rubbish.

Looking forward to a stiffer rear ARB as this should make another worthwhile improvement. Stiffer rear ARBs are almost universally considered the best 'bang for buck' mod you can do for a FWD car's suspension.

[vteccoupe]

it just depends on ur personal tolerance level.

For me before i had coilovers im on koni yellows set on hardest all round..riding on that all day..bumping and bouncing around..

so time for coilovers..i got 12k front and 8k rear spring rates racing logic coilovers...it feels more comfortable due to the spring rates and the shock absorbers matching each other :thumbsup:

so go for shocks+springs combo if u are just streeting the car AND not able to withstand hard ride..but if u wan ultimate handling u cant go pass coilovers ;)

[JohnL]

For me before i had coilovers im on koni yellows set on hardest all round..riding on that all day..bumping and bouncing around..

I don't find the Konis all that harsh even on full stiff, but it certainly 'bumps' though isn't the slightest bit 'bouncy'. Despite being a bit on the harsh side (at stiffer settings), the Konis are still very supple when you hit larger bumps.


it feels more comfortable due to the spring rates and the shock absorbers matching each other :thumbsup:

With soft springs the handling will tend to improve with higher damper rates, even past the point at which the springs become over damped. What's probably going on is that the stiffer damper setting is being used as a substitute for stiffer springs, so you may well end up with a harsher ride than you would with stiffer springs and lower damper rates (so long as the springs aren't under damped as this would create 'bounce' and impair handling). If I had the spare cash I'd be getting stiffer springs for my CB7, which would likely give even better handling than it has now even if I reduce damper rate, possibly with a softer ride.

A word of warning, some stiff dampers are too stiff at fast shaft input speeds (as when hitting decently sized bumps), so can cause the handling to be somewhat dangerous on rough roads. Top quality dampers will tend to be stiff at low shaft input speeds (such as experienced in body roll conditions), but not so stiff at high shaft iput speeds, making them fairly supple when hitting bigger bumps.

Such dampers have a 'digressive' damping curve ('curve' being the damoper resistance to force / shaft speed input as represented on a graph), the force curve flattening out as shaft speed input increases. A digressive curve is highly desirable on a street damper, and possibly on racing dampers as well. It's the low shaft input speeds that have real affect on handling and responsiveness.

Some cheaper dampers are too soft at low speed inputs and too stiff at fast speed inputs. Such dampers are possibly not 'digressive' enough, or have a 'linear' damping curve, or even worse a 'progressive' damping curve (a 'linear' force curve not flattening out as shaft input speed increases, and a 'progressive' force curve becoming steeper).


so go for shocks+springs combo if u are just streeting the car AND not able to withstand hard ride..but if u wan ultimate handling u cant go pass coilovers ;)

There's no inherant reason that a 'coil-over' will be better than a good quality damper fitted with suitable springs. Many 'coil-overs' are not all that great in the damper quality department, and would certainly need to be very good to approach the quality of Koni dampers...

[[ricer]]

well at the moment my car has KYB AGX shocks with Whiteline springs. it is very comfortable. not harsh at all... but i havent got the settings turned all the way stiff.
i was planning on getting koni yellows and lowering it that way to the bottom perch but not sure if it will be low enough and also dont know if the whiteline springs will be suitable for them...
now im considering buddyclub n+.... any one have experience with these on their EKs?

[swannno]

hey mate, i just had a set of N+ put in about a month ago. I'm a daily driver so i was hoping that it wouldn't be too harsh too. You can easily feel the difference compared to the stock setup. Its a bit on the stiff side depending on how you set the damper, but after putting them in i've discovered new bumps in roads i drive on daily.

But despite it being a little harsher, i've gotten used to it

[JohnL]

;1540528']well at the moment my car has KYB AGX shocks with Whiteline springs. it is very comfortable. not harsh at all... but i havent got the settings turned all the way stiff.
i was planning on getting koni yellows and lowering it that way to the bottom perch but not sure if it will be low enough and also dont know if the whiteline springs will be suitable for them...
now im considering buddyclub n+.... any one have experience with these on their EKs?

KYB AGX have a reputation as being a reasonably good damper, but they aren't Konis, by which I mean they don't have the inherant quality of components, manufacture and probably design that Koni are justifiably famous for. Koni and Bilstein are more or less equivalent in quality and are the best easily available dampers on the market. These two brands are serious dampers that work well on the road or track (the internals are the same design / quality in both their street and race dampers). Koni is OE on Ferrari and Aston Martin, for a reason. The rest cut corners at least somewhere in the damper to keep cost down. The same goes for the dampers incorporated into most 'coil-overs'. Konis cost a bit more for a reason, but it's good value.

Konis ought to work well with the Whiteline springs as long as your Whiteline's aren't a very high rate spring (in which case you'd need purpose made racing dampers or have the Konis revalved to suit), which I doubt is likely. Konis are also likely to last a lot longer than any cheaper damper (an important consideration for rough roads), and when they finally do wear out they can be fully rebuilt. Sorry to make this sound like Koni ad!

Of course Konis aren't perfect, they only adjust for rebound (but this is the more important adjustment for handling purposes), some of the rear dampers can only be adjusted off the car (which is a pain). On the other hand their range of adjustment goes from fairly soft to quite stiff, the range of rebound stiffness being greater than most if not all (?) other adjustable dampers (some adjustables have 'clicks' of adjustment, and some have a huge number of 'clicks', but the range of stiffness adjustment may not actually be all that great despite this).

Keep in mind that when you pay for 'coil-overs' you're also paying for springs, and some 'coil-overs' may be trading on the percieved 'coolness' of being 'coil-overs' and may charge a bit over the odds for what you get. Some may be very good, but not cheapies.

Again I'd caution against more than a slight lowering if you're driving on rough roads, I think you'd live to regret it. Of course the Konis do allow some minor ride height lowering (and raising, more so at the rear), lower than which it isn't likely wise to go for rougher road use, especially if your current springs are already lower than stock. Try thinking of your car as more of a rally car than a racing car!

[TODA AU]

Get some FIGHTEX DA's

[Sexc86]

forget buddyclub... Tein Flex is the way to go... you get what you payfor but dam they are comfortable... handell well And can nearly drop your chassis rails on the Black top!!

Budget 2k though just for the setup brand new

[fatboyz39]

koni yellow for streets. tein flex is harsh for the streets.

[Sexc86]

there are plenty more coilovers out there with harsher spring rates then tein flex.. imo.. but each to their own

[[ricer]]

damn so many options out there
how abt pricing wise?
i havent got a 12sec honda or track monster here

just want something reliable and comfy even when lowered lol
i know i need to compromise lol
koni yellows pretty tempting

[Limbo]

don't bother with coil overs as you never see any track use. Stick to what you go, they are pretty good from watching you from behind taking corners

[dsp26]

KYB AGX have a reputation as being a reasonably good damper, but they aren't Konis, by which I mean they don't have the inherant quality of components, manufacture and probably design that Koni are justifiably famous for. Koni and Bilstein are more or less equivalent in quality and are the best easily available dampers on the market. These two brands are serious dampers that work well on the road or track (the internals are the same design / quality in both their street and race dampers). Koni is OE on Ferrari and Aston Martin, for a reason. The rest cut corners at least somewhere in the damper to keep cost down. The same goes for the dampers incorporated into most 'coil-overs'. Konis cost a bit more for a reason, but it's good value.


i've ridden on Koni yellows on a few cars now and agree their awesome for non dedicated coilovers.

However i recently installed some AGX's and have now tried all 4 damp settings on ITR springs and must say it's pretty close to the Koni's for a lot cheaper... as for the longevity of quality of components in comparison i cannot comment on.

What i'm getting it is that i'm sure the AGX results here:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78092&highlight=dyno
are now revised which i will be emailing them about shortly.


The one that gets me curious are the Tokico Illumin R (5 way damp) that the US blokes rave on about.. it is priced competitively in between the AGX and KONI

[xtercii]

I'd suggest cusco zero2, coming from buddy club N+, the cusco is so much more comfortable and amazingly giving you very noticable less body rolls around corners and round abouts...

[JohnL]

However i recently installed some AGX's and have now tried all 4 damp settings on ITR springs and must say it's pretty close to the Koni's for a lot cheaper... as for the longevity of quality of components in comparison i cannot comment on.

The Konis are renowned for their longevity, I've heard a few stories of premature wear on the AGX, but it is hearsay and wouldn't stand up in court!

Keep in mind that the Konis are rebuildable (and revalvable), which I don't think either the AGX or Illumina are...


What i'm getting it is that i'm sure the AGX results here:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78092&highlight=dyno
are now revised which i will be emailing them about shortly.

I'd suggest these graphs tend to back up everything I was saying about the Koni valving, particularly the low speed rebound adjustment, which is where you get most affect on handling. Note also that the bump adjustments on the AGX and Illumina seem almost useless (I'd suggest not really worth having), and the rebound adjustment more limited relative to the Konis, which also have more digressive bump and rebound curves (a good thing!). I'd be surprised if the dampers incorporated into even the beter 'coil-overs' were much better than the AGX or Illumina dampers in this respect...


The one that gets me curious are the Tokico Illumin R (5 way damp) that the US blokes rave on about.. it is priced competitively in between the AGX and KONI

Still not Konis!

[JohnL]

I'd suggest cusco zero2, coming from buddy club N+, the cusco is so much more comfortable and amazingly giving you very noticable less body rolls around corners and round abouts...

Lack of body roll is a function of spring rate more than damper rate (and ARBs increase spring rate in single wheel bump and in roll, but not in double wheel bump), though damper rate affects the speed of roll with higher bump and / or rebound rate giving less roll in short lasting corners or 'swerve' type manouvres, but not in longer corners such as roundabouts (though with stiff dampers it will take longer to reach full roll angle).

[Sexc86]

i have done koni yellows with eibach springs... was very happy with it!

[e240]

Slurrrrppp...

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h186/e240_a/TienN1.jpg

[dahon]

hey sexc, whered you source the koni yellows and the eibach springs? and how much they go for in the end all up?

[simonnowis]

not selling the civic anymore? i think u made a good choice heheheh
def dont get tein ss if you wanna lower, the lower they go the harder the springs, they are unlike buddyclubs where its independent.
but generally i think ur ment to have harder spring rate if you wanna lower the car. i reckon stick to the shocks, i got my tein ss on lowest damper setting and still find harsh driving on victoria rd condition.

[[ricer]]

im still deciding on how much i love the EK now without the turbo kit lol

if i go shocks my mind is set on koni...
if i go coilovers i might go buddyclub N+

waiting for some free time to get a ride in cars with these fitted

[dc5.taiger]

excellent choices
i dont think buddyclub N+ are too harsh, my mate has it in his daily, his car is dropppeedd on its ass and its a confortable ride.

so far havnt heard a single thing wrong with koni's; im getting a set myself

[tRipitaka]

vouch for n+

softest setting.. feels like stock..

my car is pretty low atm.. scrapes here and there.. with more room to go lower..