Spark Plug Gap

[beeza]

I just took out my old NGK iridiums,they we're only in there for 20,000km.The gap was at 1.65mm :eek:
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l287/beeza2/DSCF1893.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l287/beeza2/DSCF1890.jpg
I got new ones in there now and the gap is at the preset 1.1mm.I've noticed no difference,maybe it's something the Dyno will only pick up but I'm running the MSD Ignition System and the spark looks very powerful,i.e. blue in color and strong.Just thinking logically a spark this powerful should support a bigger gap and a bigger gap means a biiger explosion which means more power.
What do U guys think?

[andiiso]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82980&highlight=ngk+spark

bit of info here about the whole gapping thing, ask dsp26 about it all, he knows his stuff lolz

[aaronng]

You have MSD, that's why the larger gap didn't really matter. You still had enough potential difference to jump the gap. With 1.1mm, I'd guess that you would actually lose a bit of power since the spark arc is shorter now. Put 1.65mm on iridiums in a regular ignition engine, and it might end up misfiring.

[beeza]

Sweet,I think I will change back to the 1.65mm gapped plugs.

Thanks guys,where are ya dsp26?

[aaronng]

Sweet,I think I will change back to the 1.65mm gapped plugs.

Thanks guys,where are ya dsp26?

If you are not fanging it, leave the 1.1mm in there. If you have a dynoday coming or similar, then see if there is a difference.

[dsp26]

i'll bring mine in for dyno day.... mine misfired on load at 2mm.. highest safe i could get it on 17* timing and running Mobil E10 petrol is 1.8mm on full incline loads in various gears in the blazing summer heat :)

I suspect it will benefit you more after tuning the right A/F

it is more noticable on mine coz I also stated in another thread that I had installed on of those dodgy Skunk2 copy eeprom chips which made my car rich all round.. you could probably get away with using an afpr to get you to ~40psi from the stock 38psi.

Another thing, I don't want to dissapoint you but i had also tested 2 msd blaster ss coils previously, the cylinder one and the red boxy one... the oem seemed stronger in comparison?!?!

the one I am using is the Crane Cams LX91 which was proven by others on spec/paper and dyno to be more powerful than the questionable msd units.

***EDIT***
post #26 from the following thread and all the remaining posts by the same person explains the msd units:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49899&page=3&highlight=ignition

While MSD coils are expensive, it will get good resale value with the holden/ford crowd and i strongly suggest yu rid yourself of it... since you have a CDI system too, I would highly recommend the Crane Cams LX92 or PX92.... neither of them will run on the oem ICM....

[dsp26]

also the 4wkw gain i had previously expressed on my sr20 required me to run the car richer using an AFPR bumping to 42psi from 38psi.... this was due to the circumstance that changing to an aftermarket SRI hose from the factory ribbe rubber item led the car to a 14.3:1 A/F from 13.4:1 A/F at the peak areas....


***EDIT***
I will be at the TODA dyno day to see what the basic setup does.

And also spark can't be measured visually by pulling out a sparkplug from the engine and cranking it at atmospehric pressure.... you can have a 1cm spark gap and it will still connect the electrodes... combustion chamber is different as gas density is higher during the 2nd stroke/ compression process of the 4 stroke cycle... :)

Either the dyno will pick it up assuming you have a baseline with the stock igniton system and gap or ur arse will definitely feel it.... :p

[beeza]

Thanks dsp26! Yeah I've heard that in the industry MSD is commonly referred to as MS where's the spark D.I only learnt this after I bought the unit.It makes perfect sense that the spak outside the cylinders would be different to the spark in the cylinder.With the crane coils do U have to use an aftermarket ICM?
I have an FPR set at 40psi.That is the same thing as a AFPR right?

I need to properly get my car tuned.

[dsp26]

Thanks dsp26! Yeah I've heard that in the industry MSD is commonly referred to as MS where's the spark D.I only learnt this after I bought the unit.It makes perfect sense that the spak outside the cylinders would be different to the spark in the cylinder.With the crane coils do U have to use an aftermarket ICM?
I have an FPR set at 40psi.That is the same thing as a AFPR right?

I need to properly get my car tuned.

yeah if you get it tuned you wont need an afpr at all.

If you have an aftermarket CDI system that replaces the oem ICM then I would get the more powerful coils like the LX92 or PX92... otherwise use the LX91 on the stock ICM.

just a warning, I have never seen the LX92/PX92 run on a stock ICM... on the cars that I know they were tried on in the other forums/clubs i'm with... none have been able to start... but then their designed for CDI.



Crane Cams LX91 Lightweight E-Core Coil

- High-output E-core ignition coils.
- Up to 70% higher energy at the spark plug than stock for maximum performance, race or street.
- E-core design with closed magnetic path. Reduced leakage inductance cuts losses and improves energy transfer to the spark plug.
- Solid epoxy encapsulated. Resists severe shock and harsh vibration.
- Insulated primary connector for safety. No exposed high voltage on primary terminals for enhanced safety. An important consideration when used with high output CD systems.
- SAE-spec high voltage tower protects against arcing. Improved coil wire retention and longer creep path to protect against high voltage arcing.
- Heavy gauge wire used for all windings. Results in much lower resistance and better heat dissipation for greater high RPM endurance.
- Windings optimized with computer aided design. Our exclusive CAD (Computer-Aided-Design) windings produce maximum spark gap current and highest available voltage.
- Lightweight, low profile black anodized housing.
- Recommended for use with stock OEM ignition systems.

LX91 High Output Universal E-Core Ignition Coil Highest possible spark energy and spark gap current, up to 100% greater than comparable OE coils and 70% greater than MSD Blaster coil. Recommended coil for street use with Crane HI-6, Mallory Hyfire, MSD 6 CD systems. Also works great with Crane DMSI, HI-6S, XR3000 inductive discharge ignitions. Not for use in race or extended high RPM use with high output ignition. Not for use with points.

[beeza]

Where's a good place to get the crane cams goods from?

[Limbo]

you can buy them online direct from crane

[beeza]

Thanks mate.

[dsp26]

Where's a good place to get the crane cams goods from?

you after just the coil or the entire CD system?

if your after just the coil i can point you to someone i know that sells them for $105 if you can't find em cheaper than that.. you in Sydney?



and um, maybe my pc wasn't working before but i can only just see ur pics in the first post now... the gaps look bigger than 1.65mm.. what did you use to measure?

[beeza]

The coil but will I need to replace the oem ICM aswell.
Is it ok to use with the MSD box?
I measured the gap with 2 spark plug gap feelers.Together they added up to 1.65mm

[dsp26]

The coil but will I need to replace the oem ICM aswell.
Is it ok to use with the MSD box?
I measured the gap with 2 spark plug gap feelers.Together they added up to 1.65mm

Let me know what you have in terms of the entire ignition system down to brand and model number. :)

Because if you have a multiple discharge system you will kill the LX91 coil quicker, their not meant to be charged/discharged quickly, hence why similar oem replacement coils aren't mean to stay above 7000rpm constantly.

There are proper stronger ones that can handle quick charge/discharge like the LX92/PX92

[beeza]

MSD 6A -Multiple spark box
The dizzy is just the stock one that has been modified.
Blaster 3 Coil

:)

[aaronng]

The coil but will I need to replace the oem ICM aswell.
Is it ok to use with the MSD box?
I measured the gap with 2 spark plug gap feelers.Together they added up to 1.65mm

Can you read the part number printed on the plugs?

[beeza]

I'll have to wait till I get home,just to make sure it's correct...tonight.

[dsp26]

MSD 6A -Multiple spark box
The dizzy is just the stock one that has been modified.
Blaster 3 Coil

:)

just checked... you have to use the LX91, MSD 6 can't drive the LX92.

LX91 is more than adequate for a stockish to mildly modified engine:thumbsup:

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=4&prt=168&showAll=yes

[beeza]

Awesome! I'm gonna get that and sell the MSD!
Then U just need a bracket from bunnings yeh?

The link is to the LX-92.Is it LX-91 or 92 that I should use.
'Revolution racegear' on the goldy here can order it for me.He will ring me with a price on monday.
Thank U! :)

[dsp26]

Awesome! I'm gonna get that and sell the MSD!
Then U just need a bracket from bunnings yeh?

The link is to the LX-92.Is it LX-91 or 92 that I should use.
'Revolution racegear' on the goldy here can order it for me.He will ring me with a price on monday.
Thank U! :)

LX91 and make sure you get that one... I feel sorry for the others who got the LX92 thinking bigger is better...

if you need me to send you a pic of the bunnings bracket i used let me know:thumbsup:


It's good to sell the blaster while it's new, ended up selling mine less than half price at 1 week old to a mate with a dead coil.. at least i didn't feel bad about it :p

[beeza]

Cheers!
How did U secure the coil to the bracket?

[omgzilla]

That LX91 coil is cheaper than a OEM B16A Ignition Coil too!

I just bought an OEM one recently - dammit!

dsp26: How much was your Coil+Iridium combo from that eBay store delivered?

I'm thinking about getting the kit, but worried about the shipping costs.

[dsp26]

Cheers!
How did U secure the coil to the bracket?

LX91 has it's own bracket... 2 of the 4 corner mounting points align to the bunnings bracket with the included extended nuts/bolts.

the remainder was just sikaflexed... bracket is mounted between firewall and strut tower on driver side.



dsp26: How much was your Coil+Iridium combo from that eBay store delivered?

not really worth ordering from that ebay shop i mentioned unless your ordering other stuff with it, standard shipping is US$49 from memory upto 30cm x 30cm x 30cm. Besides, when I got the MSD kit from them, i sold the coil a week later and got like 1/3 of the total back which made the whole project uber cheap. It still works out cheaper than anywhere else if you get just one item and pay that shipping but it becomes a whole cheaper when you split that shipping cost over say 5 items :p

[beeza]

Cheers!

[omgzilla]

not really worth ordering from that ebay shop i mentioned unless your ordering other stuff with it, standard shipping is US$49 from memory upto 30cm x 30cm x 30cm. Besides, when I got the MSD kit from them, i sold the coil a week later and got like 1/3 of the total back which made the whole project uber cheap. It still works out cheaper than anywhere else if you get just one item and pay that shipping but it becomes a whole cheaper when you split that shipping cost over say 5 items :p

Ahh ok cool.

Can't think of other stuff i want from that shop though, hmmm.

Been looking around on the GC Corp Performance Parts site and thinking about these:
http://www.gccorp.com.au/automotive/product_info.php?cPath=22_80_81&products_id=171

...and these:
http://www.gccorp.com.au/automotive/product_info.php?products_id=191&osCsid=368b44919f95c3ac8f4d19eccbea6469

[dsp26]

Ahh ok cool.

Can't think of other stuff i want from that shop though, hmmm.

Been looking around on the GC Corp Performance Parts site and thinking about these:
http://www.gccorp.com.au/automotive/product_info.php?cPath=22_80_81&products_id=171

...and these:
http://www.gccorp.com.au/automotive/product_info.php?products_id=191&osCsid=368b44919f95c3ac8f4d19eccbea6469

His products and knowledge is great... he does pickups if your in Sydney.

However, if your strongly considering purchasing the LX91 from GCCorp, I strongly suggest you get the Iridium plugs + Vision 10mm Iridium leads from the other site I posted previously

[beeza]

Can you read the part number printed on the plugs?

ZFR5FIX-11

[aaronng]

ZFR5FIX-11

Those plugs are meant to have 1.1mm gap. So 1.65mm means they have been worn down too much. Time for new plugs. :( How old are these plugs? If they are under 1 year old, I'd go for copper or platinums since something is causing the plugs to wear prematurely.

[beeza]

They were in there about 10 months.I think it might be the coil I was using...it was the MSD High Voltage coil.The blue one.It's meant for high powered machines...I've since changed the coil and put the same plugs but new ones in.So I'll keep an eye on it.

[aaronng]

They were in there about 10 months.I think it might be the coil I was using...it was the MSD High Voltage coil.The blue one.It's meant for high powered machines...I've since changed the coil and put the same plugs but new ones in.So I'll keep an eye on it.
Yeah. If you are chewing iridiums that are meant to last 6 years in 10 months, then it might be better to spend less on copper or platinum plugs and change them every year anyway. Why are you using an MSD on a D series again?

[beeza]

MSD is da s**t aaronng.It really made a great difference.SMOOOOOTH :)

[aaronng]

MSD is da s**t aaronng.It really made a great difference.SMOOOOOTH :)

Better than changing the leads themselves? Hehe. I can't comment on whether it is the shit, because I prefer to have 1 big spark and 1 flame front, rather than multiple sparks. That's why I have direct ignition coils, best of both worlds? :)

Hmm, since MSD does multiple sparks, I am wondering whether if your iridium plugs were being overheated and melting the electrode... What about trying heat range 6 copper plugs to see if they are any better? $16 for a quick experiment (if the MSD doesn't chew up the copper plugs even quicker!)

[beeza]

Haha :) I did change the leads aswell :)
I don't know but it feels like it suits an automatic real nice...I haven't driven a manual with the system but U would need to know the car how it was b4 the system is in to understand what difference it makes when it's installed.

Nice,thank U,I'll definately will do that.I'll give the iridiums a go again with the new coil first.I'm gonna change the MSD blaster 3 coil to a Crane cams LX91 as recommened by dsp26.I ordered it today :)

I Love safe experimenting ;)

[omgzilla]

His products and knowledge is great... he does pickups if your in Sydney.

However, if your strongly considering purchasing the LX91 from GCCorp, I strongly suggest you get the Iridium plugs + Vision 10mm Iridium leads from the other site I posted previously

I'm not going to bother upgrading the coil. I've already got a new OEM one.

Just looking into the Iridiums and the Leads.

So you reckon the gear i mentioned is a pretty good deal?

[dsp26]

I'm not going to bother upgrading the coil. I've already got a new OEM one.

Just looking into the Iridiums and the Leads.

So you reckon the gear i mentioned is a pretty good deal?

Lol.. i'm a big fan of GCcorp as he has personally helped me on many mechanical issues in the past... he has the cheapest iridium plugs + top gun leads i've seen in Aus... obviously the US eBay ones are cheaper as a set though...

get these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/94-01-ACURA-INTEGRA-SPARK-WIRES-NGK-IRIDIUM-PLUGS-BLUE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el126 2QQcategoryZ33692QQihZ023QQitemZ360028515132

If you email for shipping quote for these alone it'll probably be around US$29 which makes th whole package under AU$100 shipped.

The lead boots are height adjustable therefore fit ALL B series...

[omgzilla]

Thanks heaps dude!

You're the man!