GSi/Vti-R/Type-R kw ratings???

[Tegzieboi_BAR]

Hey guys i own a 94 Integra Gsi... Soon im getting a full custom exhaust/headers put in after which im getting a Powerchip. The place im gettin the car chipped give me a dyno before and after the installation of the chip. I already have a few monor things done 2 the motor but just wanned to c where my car measures up 2 the standard Gsi and maybe Vti-R after these mods have been put in. From what im promiced at the workshops my cars flywheel kw reading should be around the same as the Vti-R as im told the chip should give me around 15 (flywheel) kw and the exhaust shuld give another 10 or so. Air intake and a few other things here n there im hoping theres another 5 kw from standard. I know that a Gsi has around 105 flywheel kw, the Vti-R has around 127 and the Type-R has around 145, but i havnt been able 2 find the kW reading "at the wheels" for Gsi's n Vti-R's. Anyone has a clue? Cheers guys! Just wana c how my car measures up against the VTEC after the mods have been complete, although i kno that even if i got my car to 127 flywheel kw the difference in power delivery would mean a Vti-R would still prolly own me. Any help would b much appreciated, thanks, Paul. :)

[DLO01]

Ditch the Powerchip before you get it. Do all your mods, then get a decent 'tunable' Ecu and get it tunned to exactly suit your mods.

[<4n'D>]

pretty sure this topic has been covered heaps of times already

a gsi will never perform like a type r... you should just keep it stock, sell it and then buy a type r.

with the money you're spending on the mods, you can practically do that already. but if you go ahead with the mods, you probably would be wasting money.

although on second read through of your post, its even more pointless to spend all that cash to make it as fast as a vti-r dude...

[ricki_kalsi]

I don't think he wants to be as quick as a Type R, as he mentioned that he accepts that a VTi R would still munch him after these mods.

IMO, Save your money on all of this... save up a bit more, and put in a B18C engine from a Vti-R.

[Q_ball]

Migrane and a 1/2 reading that MASSIVE paragraph..

Space it out next time!!

[dc2dc2dc2]

open ur eyes china.

[rayb3na_]

from fly wheel to wheels theres this mad equation to it.. but it usually equates to 20 ish 30ish loss

[Tegzieboi_BAR]

Yeah my plan is 2 basically get either a dc2 type-r or a dc5 type-s in about 2 years time. I was just hoping 2 give my Gsi an extra kick b4 that happens tho, im definitely not gna go overboard with performance mods coz i kno i'll never b that quick anyway. Cheers for ur comment DLO01, i agree, but like i sayd, not gna bother spending thousands on the car, prolly an exhaust n some sort of ecu mod will be it 4 my baby.

[Tegzieboi_BAR]

if any1 knows what the standard gsi or vti-r wheel kw rating is pls post it in case i go ahead with the powerchip. Just wana c where my car's at.

[DC4Integra98]

turbo it ^_^

[dudeling7]

My GSi got these results

short ram
4-2-1 megan headers
2.25 press bent exhaust haha

i reckon if i got a hiflow cat and proper exhaust i could have hit 100kw atw.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/dudeling7/dyno95.jpg

goes alright im heaps happy with it. got a lighweight flywheel and i love driving it :thumbsup:

[Tegzieboi_BAR]

Whoa, dont wana sound rude but thats almost hard 2 believe! Seeing that dyno sheet put a big smile on my face... theres hope after all!!!

How much did u spend on the exhaust n where did u get it? If i could get my car to anywhere above 90 fwkw i'll be over the moon. Cheers 4 making my day lolz

[dudeling7]

haha sorry forgot to mention i also got it tuned with safc so that added like 3-4kw from tuning.

hmmm exhaust i live in canberra lol so jsut got it custom made. would like to get a nice jap brand 60mm one though would be better.

megan racing headers jsut researched they are good bang for buck, i had xforce 4-1 before this and the megan are much better. much better power band and sounded much nicer also.

intake is jsut a k and n short ram.

fidanza flywheel and exedy clutch was the most fun mod probably, makes the car very responsive.car has 200,000km on it haha must be a freak!

[Jarkz]

Here you go if memory serves me right.

GSi - B18B - 107kw's

VTiR - B18C2 - 125kw's

Type R - B18C7 - 141kw's

[sever_all_ties]

Just get a power reading on the dyno before u get the mods added to it. Then u will know how many kws u got from the mods and tuning.

[Tegzieboi_BAR]

Just get a power reading on the dyno before u get the mods added to it. Then u will know how many kws u got from the mods and tuning.

yeah id love 2 but i dont wana pay 200 bucks 4 a dyno, coz i dno any1 with a workshop n thats the rate around here. I had a nice chat with the guys at this performance workshop near my area, prolly 1 of the best in adel, but they mainly specialise in turbos n v8s, they said that best thing they could offer was a "powerchip" seems like a good idea, coz its a pretty basic mod n like i said previously not gna go over the top with the car.

They powerchipped the new civic-r n it had a gain of 10 fw-kW n altho the engine is quite different from mine, they pretty much guaranteed me 10-15 kw at the flywheel. Its a bit pricey, around $1100 for the mod, with a dyno b4 n after the installation. What interested me was the fact that theres a warranty, if i dont feel that the chip was worth the money i can return it 4 all the money back, seems like a good deal.

Any1 kno how much 4 an average Hondata ecu, n wats the best way 2 get a hold of 1. Any1 whos across any sort of chip b4? Was it worth the money?

[Tegzieboi_BAR]

Thanks heaps 4 ur comments "dudeling" coz i was actually thinking about gettin the flywheel n clutch done but was told stuff about loss of torque, i read a forum the other day about the flywheel mod on the type-r n was still a lil iffy. How much am i looking at approximately if i wana get a flywheel? i kno its best 2 get it fitted when doing the clutch. Once again cheers bud, its hard 2 find people who have done much work 2 their gsi's so ur feedback is much appreciated.

Btw my cars about 2 hit 200 000 too hahaha! Never had the slightest glitch with the motor tho, well looked after, still runs smooth as!!!

[d15z1SUX]

there was this guy with a b18a teg n he did cams, i/h/e and got 133fwhp i think he did?

[T-onedc2]

if you've got 1100 to spend after the custom exhaust i wouldn't waste it on a chip, get a bigger throttle body and/or port & polish. Or save a bit more for a programmable ecu.

[Tegzieboi_BAR]

yeah, ive found most ppl online hav been tellin me not 2 bother chipping it but it seems like a decent gain 2 me. The thing is, like ive mentioned, i dont wana go over the top with my car n if i can get it up to 90 fwkw (although we all know that leads to 100kw n then 120kw n so on...) that will pretty much do it 4 me, im not building a race car... that will be my dc2r/dc5s in a few years time, til then i just want somethin half decent that doesnt get put 2 shame by the almighty VTEC.

By the way "T-onedc2" ... ur adelaide based, what workshops/tuners do u suggest around here 2 work on a honda if i do decide 2 look into port/polish etc, coz i honestly hav no idea where 2 even look.

[ricki_kalsi]

Holy wow! that dyno result in amazing! How accurate is it?

Don't go off Dyno results mate. Power doesnt mean much, is about using the rev range.

I'd much rather follow the red line than the black line. Wouldn't you??

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/1927/dynocl6.png

I know that's a big exageration... but you get what i'm getting at.

[Tegzieboi_BAR]

Im not stupid bro, i kno not 2 trust the dyno readouts, but at the end of the day, if "dudeling" was able 2 achieve 95 (whether its accurate or not) i kno that its quite possible 4 my car 2 improve by quite a bit, i'll b happy with anything over 85kw n i kno that at the end of the day its power-delivery that really matters... all i want from my car is a 10-15&#37; power increase.

N besides, i kno my car aint no VTEC *hangs head in shame* but the most power put out is prolly around the 6k rpm range, which i guess comes down 2 tuning the car well after the mods but like i said previoulsy, im not building a race car, just wna add a bit more of a kick 2 everyday driving.

I had a friend pay 3 grand 4 his supercharged v8's exhaust, came with a free dyno n showed somethin like 303 rwkw, then went 2 another place n after doing another mod had it dynoed n it only showed 260 or so, so theres a lot of dodgy ppl around that will make ur car seem more powerful than it is just 2 get ur money.

[ricki_kalsi]

N besides, i kno my car aint no VTEC *hangs head in shame*


That doesn't matter man! Pick your head up :).
That's why Toda VTEC killer cams were invented! :)

You don't need VTEC to be quick, hell what proper Honda race cars have VTEC.

It's just a gimic to give better fuel economy, and another thing in a race car to break - as it's more complex..

[teaseR]

a power run wound not cost 200 in adelaide.
PM me if u want to ask where and what mechanic

[RMN15N]

That doesn't matter man! Pick your head up :).
That's why Toda VTEC killer cams were invented! :)

You don't need VTEC to be quick, hell what proper Honda race cars have VTEC.

It's just a gimic to give better fuel economy, and another thing in a race car to break - as it's more complex..

you gotta admit.. driving a non vtec car is boring. ive been thru my stock motor d16a8 twice. then b16 now b18.

my 2c save that money you got for an ls/vtec conversion,

slap a b16a head on that b18b block and have a hybrid,

you can source a head for about 500 bux, if you want i can point you to the right direction,

ive been in your shoes wasting money on my non vtec. i used to think just a few mods wont hurt, then you start wasting so much money on a motor that just keeps getting whoopd..

ls/vtec , other words the poor mans type r.

have a think about it. :thumbsup:

btw im not saying you have to.. just my exp, dont want anyone else to go thru the thousands of bucks for nothing :)

[dudeling7]

RMNI5N has a good point. i was really keen on doing an LS/VTEC on mine, but at the end of the day i cbf it and would rather turbo it. so atm im slowly trying to collect parts for a turbo build.

dont worry man vtec isnt everything lol, it is good though especially the sound on a b18c7. its up to you, the b18b has a little more torque but a lower rev range.

IMHO things like a lightened flywheel, changine the FD such as a vtir gearbox would make the most improvemnts on our engines.

people inthe states cut 1/4 mile times by 0.3-0.4 seconds by getting rid of the long ls gearbox.

theres so many things you could do, i guess i have kept mine because im a poor uni student haha but yeh have a goal and work towards that.

in regards to the dyno sheet - i know dynos dont mean anything, i could have gotten 70 at someother place or 100 at another. but im happy with the powerband that i have, from 4000rpm up things are good lol

[ricki_kalsi]

Why not be more unique. Buy a CRV bottom end, and then a B16 head! Then you have a B20, which has an awsome amount of torque. Also it's a better base to work with. change some internals, and you have an absolute beast.

[RMN15N]

Why not be more unique. Buy a CRV bottom end, and then a B16 head! Then you have a B20, which has an awsome amount of torque. Also it's a better base to work with. change some internals, and you have an absolute beast.

why would you buy that?
yes they have alot of torque however
they dont rev high,
example, standard b16a head +b20 block (standard)
you can only rev up to 7200rpm at most

or u'll blow somthing.

cheapest solution because he already has the b18b block, slap the b16a head on with mild internals like cam shafts / gears - I/H/E

would be sweet.

[fatboyz39]

[quote=RMN15N;1562978]
you can only rev up to 7200rpm at most

quote]

Wrong, standard B20 blocks up to 8200rpm safely with APR rod bolts. Its all in the tuning. Our last b20 rev'ed to 8800rpm all day everyday no problem.

[dudeling7]

why would you buy that?
yes they have alot of torque however
they dont rev high,
example, standard b16a head +b20 block (standard)
you can only rev up to 7200rpm at most

or u'll blow somthing.

cheapest solution because he already has the b18b block, slap the b16a head on with mild internals like cam shafts / gears - I/H/E

would be sweet.



But even with a b18b bottom end you cannot take it up to 8000rpm all the time, i would at least reccomment rod bolts and maybe head studs as well, as the ls rod bolts are a weak point. but yeh its pretty easily doable, everything adds up though, i guess it depends on how reliable you want it.

just boost it haha :)

[RMN15N]

[quote=RMN15N;1562978]
you can only rev up to 7200rpm at most

quote]

Wrong, standard B20 blocks up to 8200rpm safely with APR rod bolts. Its all in the tuning. Our last b20 rev'ed to 8800rpm all day everyday no problem.

typo. i ment 8200 + standard the blocks are weak.
also to add , it depends on what kinda driver you are. if u thrash it around heaps and take it 8200 all the time on the standard block.. well gg to you.

[RMN15N]

But even with a b18b bottom end you cannot take it up to 8000rpm all the time, i would at least reccomment rod bolts and maybe head studs as well, as the ls rod bolts are a weak point. but yeh its pretty easily doable, everything adds up though, i guess it depends on how reliable you want it.

just boost it haha :)

if you do it right you'll rev to 9.5
thats what mine is supposed to rev at.

but i dont think it makes power after 9. :thumbdwn:

gotta get it retuned then see whats going on from there.

[fatboyz39]

[quote=RMN15N;1563197]if you do it right you'll rev to 9.5
thats what mine is supposed to rev at.

quote]

LOL LS/VTEC revving to 9.5k..... What head? Ported? cam? valve springs? valves?

Without a good combo of parts that engine won't make power no more then 8k.

[ZeForce]

why would you buy that?
yes they have alot of torque however
they dont rev high,
example, standard b16a head +b20 block (standard)
you can only rev up to 7200rpm at most

or u'll blow somthing.

cheapest solution because he already has the b18b block, slap the b16a head on with mild internals like cam shafts / gears - I/H/E

would be sweet.

Im assuming you have first hand experience building and driving a B20VTEC?

But I would agree since he already has B18b might as well just build a LSVTEC :thumbsup:

[Tegzieboi_BAR]

ive really considered getting the ls/vtec conversion coz it wouldnt b 2 pricey with decent powergains. But i have thought it through plenty of times n pretty much came 2 the conclusion that im not gna do any engine swaps (uless by chance i come across a ridicolousy cheap b18c7 or k20... which i doubt) or internal work. Just wana add some bolt ons 2 give the car a few more kw's.

Just wanna say thanks 4 ur guys contribution n comments, really appreciate it, uve all stated some decent points... but as i had always dreamed of a type-r (or perhaps a DC5-S) i rekon im not gna blow 2 much cash on the ol' gsi which will make savin 4 the next car a bit easier.

Cheers 4 ur feedback Dudeling, i rekon i might follow ur footsteps with the exhaust/extractors, clutch/flywheel mods... that might just 4 it... at the end of the day all that matters is that i put those bogans in their VLs in my rearview where they belong haha

[Tegzieboi_BAR]

...disregard this... im just dreamin a bit... but it would be pretty frikken sweet 2 have a DC2R n DC4 turbs sittin in my garage... if i won the lottery i hav no doubt id go through wit it... dreamz dreamz dreamz!

[RMN15N]

[quote=RMN15N;1563197]if you do it right you'll rev to 9.5
thats what mine is supposed to rev at.

quote]

LOL LS/VTEC revving to 9.5k..... What head? Ported? cam? valve springs? valves?

Without a good combo of parts that engine won't make power no more then 8k.

whats so funny?
you dont know what ive got done, so dont assume

for your information, b18c head port polished head / itm (skunk2)
toda c camshafts, toda cam gears, toda valve springs & retainers , h22a injectors and a whole bunch of other shit.


and to tegboy.. u gotta dream first to know what you want anyway. :D

[VTec1987]

[quote=RMN15N;1563197]if you do it right you'll rev to 9.5
thats what mine is supposed to rev at.

quote]

LOL LS/VTEC revving to 9.5k..... What head? Ported? cam? valve springs? valves?

Without a good combo of parts that engine won't make power no more then 8k.


DUDE, do you think ur god or something, you don't know everything

[VTec1987]

I dun noe how u can sell ur engines FATBOYZ39, wreckers probably sells it cheaper then u.
LOL...........