Air intake test AP1 S2000

[fatboyz39]

For those who are looking at buying a intake system for the s2k should look at these results. The test was done on a AP1 stock s2k. Testing was performed at Bel garage.

Two runs stock s2k stock air box best 125kw atw. Was about right for a stock s2k on that dyno.

Next 2 run, chucked on a blox velocity stack, 6' filter into air box. Closed the air lid. Best Peak power 135kw atw. Average of 5-8hp across rev range.

Here are the results

n.b red line with blox air filter setup with stock airbox
blue line stock airbox/filter

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1010638.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1010636.jpg

Back 2 back testing, nothing else was changed bar the air filter.

For $150, gain average of 5-10hp across rev range, can't go wrong with this intake. Still retains stock airbox with a nice gain.

Pm me to discuss futher about intake setups.

Thanks for bel for letting perform this test. Great guys. And also Dynodave for operating the dyno.

[eriktufa]

Nice job, really good gain but I'm more worried about the a/f ratio.
If my eyes are not playing, the a/f ratio is 12:1 and I think it's really lean IMO, I'd like my car to run 13:1 a/f ratio.

Just curious, why is a/f ratio so low?

Erik

[teamkillerpe]

I wonder anyone has a mugen airbox who'd dyno'd?

[Chi]

Mugen may give u a bit more gain, but it sure costs a hell lot more.

[fatboyz39]

Nice job, really good gain but I'm more worried about the a/f ratio.
If my eyes are not playing, the a/f ratio is 12:1 and I think it's really lean IMO, I'd like my car to run 13:1 a/f ratio.

Just curious, why is a/f ratio so low?

Erik

thats not lean. Perfectly safe.

[Benson]

Nice job, really good gain but I'm more worried about the a/f ratio.
If my eyes are not playing, the a/f ratio is 12:1 and I think it's really lean IMO, I'd like my car to run 13:1 a/f ratio.

Just curious, why is a/f ratio so low?

Erik

LOL i think you got your a/f ratio mixed up... the lower the a/f like 11:1 its rich. 12.9:1-13.1:1 is where you want the air to fuel. 12.0:1 is perfectly safe as fatboyz said.

[eriktufa]

Bah my bad, I forgot lean is 13.5 plus!!

Sorry again fatboy.

Yeah it's a bit rich, more room for power :D

[datzlr]

anyone got dyno of the injen intake?

[-parkes-]

cool was there any audible differences by installing this filter?

[CRXONE]

I'm selling my CRX so I put the stock airbox back on and wholey shit there's no way in bloody hell that it goes as well as when it had the more open ram pipe to the front grill.

For my S2000 im getting an V2 intake in gunmetal to suit the duco. I'm pumpd!

[NVD52K]

did he do that with the aem that he said he was gonna do?

[TODA AU]

I call Bullshit...

[.::F[L]Y::.]

I call Bullshit...

care to elaborate?

[Benson]

did he do that with the aem that he said he was gonna do?

Yes the AEM intake was tested.... The result werent' as impressive as the stock airbox with the v-stack set-up. For the best result it the blox air filter set-up with the stock airbox....

I think next will be the test the 68mm t/b with this set-up and see what other gains can be had. So for, on Fly's s2k we pick-up torque and response from the bigger 68mm t/b. With stock t/b and AEM car made 131kw and with the bigger 68mm t/b and AEM it made 137kw... the results are there but we feel the AEM is letting it down. So stay tuned for more intake test onthe s2k.

[TODA AU]

Y::.;1579864']care to elaborate?


First run stock s2k stock air box 125kw atw. Was about right for a stock s2k on that dyno.
Next run, chucked on a blox velocity stack, 6' filter into air box. Closed the air lid. Peak power 135kw atw

The 1st run on an S2000 is always lower than the 2nd then the 3rd. (Mid to high 120's)
4th run, things even out where you see 130~135kw is normal for a bone stock S2k.
It says clearly 1st run as stock, 2nd run with different filter.
Why didn'y you do a test back to back with 4~5 runs each,
Using the best of each?
Further, I bet you didn't use a brand new OEM filter as your comparison either.
The claim of 5~10hp gain across the rev range with only an airfilter change in the std airbox is a big call.
But when the filter it is compared to is dirty, when than that's just misleading.
Further, considering your filter is inside the unmodified std box with the miricle ram tube.
With all the money Honda spent developing this thing, don't you think they would have rather marketed it with 180kw at the fly instead of 176?
Hense, I call Bullshit.

[mrs2k]

The 1st run on an S2000 is always lower than the 2nd then the 3rd. (Mid to high 120's)
4th run, things even out where you see 130~135kw is normal for a bone stock S2k.
It says clearly 1st run as stock, 2nd run with different filter.
Why didn'y you do a test back to back with 4~5 runs each,
Using the best of each?
Further, I bet you didn't use a brand new OEM filter as your comparison either.
The claim of 5~10hp gain across the rev range with only an airfilter change in the std airbox is a big call.
But when the filter it is compared to is dirty, when than that's just misleading.
Further, considering your filter is inside the unmodified std box with the miricle ram tube.
With all the money Honda spent developing this thing, don't you think they would have rather marketed it with 180kw at the fly instead of 176?
Hense, I call Bullshit.

quoted for the truth, thats pretty big gains

[WhiteAP1]

Im with TODA. 10 extra wheel KWs from a filter, im a little more than sceptical. If those are the figures you got from the test,(cant see images) its most likely due to other variable factors IMO.

[<4n'D>]

10kw atw... sounds like what you get from changing i/h/e instead of just intake...

but if results can be substantiated, i'd be sold :D

[Benson]

We have done this to help people chose their mod wisely and all you guys do is accused the result.

If you dont accept that just an air filter makes 10kw, then go spend your moeny on mugen or AEM intake system which is 5x extra. The results are there, dyno number cant be made up...

Like seriously, at this rate, we should keep the result to ourselves and be selfish and not share it with other people.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

people can believe what they want. dynosheet is there to look at and use as reference.

however,


*bennjamin edit not needed

[ludecrs]

*bennjamin edit not needed

I reserve comment on your car here, but I'll make a comment on what you just said.

$10-15K in one of these cars doesn't go far.

One of the local guys up here in QLD is on his 3rd engine transplant now (OEM, replacement OEM, and now going 2.5L).. pistons, Brian Cower cams yada yada yada the full monty - I mean the B Cower stuff alone is $3500 without postage from the US, not including fitment. Its a costly exercise and doesnt come cheap. That's what this car is all about lol.

My comptech & ECU if purchased new would run over $8k+ in this country, and that's prior to any fitment and multiple dyno runs and tunes.

ANother perfect example is WhiteAP1 and his build, as well as the guy in Newcastle with the yellow S, that just spent $8K on replacing his OEM engine recently.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

my comment was directed to toda au.

[<4n'D>]

We have done this to help people chose their mod wisely and all you guys do is accused the result.

If you dont accept that just an air filter makes 10kw, then go spend your moeny on mugen or AEM intake system which is 5x extra. The results are there, dyno number cant be made up...

Like seriously, at this rate, we should keep the result to ourselves and be selfish and not share it with other people.

well personally its not like im trying to criticize the result, but adrian from toda has extensive knowledge of these things and has made some very valid points.

i'm not narrow minded to believe that a mugen, injen, spoon etc intake system would necessarily perform better than this because in itself the stock intake system is already pretty damn good. in fact it would still be pretty hard to believe that even a 'branded' intake system can pull that kind of figures...

[Benson]

For Toda_Au reference, each test had 2 dyno pulls. The results are from the second pull of each test for consistency.

I guess we can always have an intake test if shown enough interest when Bel garage organise a dyno day. I'll have a chat with the owners at Bel for this... i'll keep you updated.

[TODA AU]

Y::.;1581125']my comment was directed to toda au.
Obviously
But If I'm wrong, why did Jimmy edit his 1st post? LOL
In light of that, it's obvious you're not on here to generously share any knowledge.
You & your brothers are just on here to sell shit, plain & simple.
Why else would you say?


Pm me to discuss further about intake setups.
You engage the market for profit.
Initially engine conversions, then built motors, now conversion kits & other parts.
Whether you’re acting on your own or as agents for someone else is beside the point.
So how about you cut the crap & pay to be a trader on this site like everyone else?
Or why should anyone have to pay for that privilege?
(How much longer are you going to turn a blind eye - Ben – Win?)

As for your comment on our engines,
Stop flapping your gums & prove you can do better…
Enter the NSW CAMS super sprints this year & show us what you’ve got.
(Yes, there's more to life than the drag strip)
We’ll be sure to have a big dollar can of whoop ass waiting for you.

[bennjamin]

guys lets keep it nice.

PS this thread is hardly informative , more so a "marketing ploy".

I have heard "stuff" too about people on here , but i still believe TODA would have a vastly larger intelligence and experience than alot of others here hence why his questioning the results.

Lets do a INTAKE test too in the upcoming months , sounds a good idea ?

[fatboyz39]

You engage the market for profit.
Initially engine conversions, then built motors, now conversion kits & other parts.
Whether you’re acting on your own or as agents for someone else is beside the point.
So how about you cut the crap & pay to be a trader on this site like everyone else?
Or why should anyone have to pay for that privilege?
(How much longer are you going to turn a blind eye - Ben – Win?)

As for your comment on our engines,
Stop flapping your gums & prove you can do better…
Enter the NSW CAMS super sprints this year & show us what you’ve got.
(Yes, there's more to life than the drag strip)
We’ll be sure to have a big dollar can of whoop ass waiting for you.

I wasn't there when they perform the intake test. But i was there with another s2k in the morning doing throttle body and intake test. Both s2k made gains with the intake. Go and buy the intake on ebay i don't care, just showing everyone that there is no need to buy mugen, spoon or whateva intake for $500+ when a blox airfilter inside a STOCK airbox will work as good.

As for trader shit, if the mods have a problem pm me.

Enter the NSW CAMS super sprints this year & show us what you’ve got. Is that a challenge? lol workshop vs backyarder woohooo is gonna be fun fun. Look we'll enter it just for you Toda, lets see what honda's you got out there.:angel::angel:

[fatboyz39]

Lets do a INTAKE test too in the upcoming months , sounds a good idea ?

Why not do it on the toda dyno day? what intake takes 2-5min to change over?

[bennjamin]

Why not do it on the toda dyno day? what intake takes 2-5min to change over?

bring em along ~ on what car but ? And what intakes ? Heads up for anyone that wants to "lend" a B series intake for the 30/3 and do a mini comparison on a "stock" engine.

Also , lets be nice and keep the quiffs to pm guys.

[bartek]

10kw form a fillter. load of fuken bullshit, whoever knows a bit about cars and specifically hondas knows that thats an absolute load of crap. Fuk honda engeneers must be dumb not to think of somthing like that. Fatboy you should work for NASA designing latest spacecraft machines.

[jdmTYPE R]

man talking about perry motor went from shit to worse....

[fatboyz39]

10kw form a fillter. load of fuken bullshit, whoever knows a bit about cars and specifically hondas knows that thats an absolute load of crap. Fuk honda engeneers must be dumb not to think of somthing like that. Fatboy you should work for NASA designing latest spacecraft machines.

lets just say 3-5kw atw throughout rev range

[Benson]

10kw form a fillter. load of fuken bullshit, whoever knows a bit about cars and specifically hondas knows that thats an absolute load of crap. Fuk honda engeneers must be dumb not to think of somthing like that. Fatboy you should work for NASA designing latest spacecraft machines.

All i know is that the 2 owners of the intake and bigger t/b gives the :thumbsup:. I think one of em is on this forum...

[.::F[L]Y::.]

yeh aznsiko was the other car the test was performed on.

[aznsiko]

Y::.;1582554']yeh aznsiko was the other car the test was performed on.


yea right here... lol.. F*&# what the hell going on here?? look dudes.. that dyno graph is actually mine... those were my results.. i ran a 125KW at the wheels on my stock standard run.. then with jimmy's intake kit, without the larger TB i ran a 135KW at the wheels.. plain and simple... whats so ****ing hard to believe thats plain F$&#ing fact..

i was there.. it was my car.. i saw the runs.. why is everyone having a F&#$ing cry about the boys intake kits?? they just trying to help.. u blokes out by advising you guys that there is a cheaper way to make a gain rather than you blowing big $$$ on mugen spoon or what ever intake kits... im loving it.. just recently fit the larger TB too... so probly run it up again this weekend..


*bennjamin edit not needed

[aznsiko]

man talking about perry motor went from shit to worse....


haha i like that.. shit to worse.. good one..

[e240]

.. obviously if it waas built properly to start would off been fine all way thru.. i dont know who perry is.. but ive seen a motor that youve built that the block F&#$ing blown a HOLE out the side and piston.. rod.. u name it bloody came out of.. so shit i dont think thats a good way to run a business.. your making a bad name for company.. look around everyone saying PERRYS MOTOR this that.. and another thing...

Hey, get your facts right...Here's an independent opinion from another reputed Tuner/Engine builder on that motor.


jdmtyper

i dont know who build the engine or tuned the engine BUT...

alot of times blowing an engine is not so much the engine building but also sometimes the tuner could be at fault ...
for a conrod to fly thru the block... according to my experience, it must have too much advance timing in the tune. so my advice is not judgemental im not accusing or helping anyone. as i dont know who are involved...
okay here goes..
point
0)if engine is built badly(assembly) it will blow up in the first 20 minutes or during run in.(assuming that all products will not fail)

this is what mostly must have happened on the engine.
1) on the up stroke; the cylinder is firing, causing a downward force on a upward piston. thrus snapping the conrod(which is forged aftermarket assuming that product should not fail).(if piston have melted edges it confirms it, will explain but take 2 pages) but biggest give away is the twist in the forged conrod.

OR

2) advance timing sends a downward force on the bearing that crushes the main bearing causing an imbalance crank. throwing conrod out of the block. i think tis is unlikely the main cause; as this is a long process and you will hear the bearing knock and stopped flogging your car before the conrod flys out.

the way the conrod failed was from compression Twist... up action + down action at the same time. clearances was not a problem.
you would probably see scratch marks on the side of your cylinder wall (i dont know if you did, i definately havent im in a different state.. haha) and thought it was a clearance problem. but it's not. let me explain
as your piston is going up and advance timing is firing; the sides of the pistons get pushed down(as it does not have a conrod supporting it) and creates more surface area as the piston is getting streched.eg. from this /---\ to this \---/.. this extra surface area touches your cylinder walls and the friction melts and scratches the sideof the cylinder wall.

but ultimate failure was from conrod twisitng, snapping and punching the side of the block... piston mush have shattered at gundgon pin area, as most stress will be at that part. if it was clearance problem, it would have sheared/teared off instead of compressed twist failure as it would be jammed on the downstroke.

i think im right... :)


i have been selling parts for years and i know for a fact that the tuner will blame the engine builder, and vice versa when an engine blows up... and on the opposite they will claim the build/tune the engine when it does a good time.
im not saying it's the tuners fault. or engine builders fault. but have a open mind, and an analytical mind, look at what went wrong... and you'll be able to know what happen.

sometimes it's not the engine builders fault, it could be the tuners fault or vise versa. (unless he build and tuned it.. haha) so i think the moderators were right in that sense because you will really not know the truth until you study it... so good luck with your second engine...


P.S.my 2 cents worth i have never seen a forged conrod break like that from
bad assembly... and i got a Bach degree in engineering and i studied "finite element" in my last year. so i know a little bit of how things go boom.. im not tryingto be smart .. imjust bored they called of the drags tonight because it rained :(


standard engine(spoon is pretty standard..) do last longer than worked engine. as worked engine are getting Horse squeezed the living daylights out of them..(unnatural >>>> thats why you ned to forgedd the parts)...

but even a worked engine or a engine made with diamonds cannot withstand bad tuning.. or bad assembly... or bad driving for that matter..
not saying you are a bad driver.. or have a bad tuner or bad garage :)

engine builders and engine tuners go thru alot of pressure...
it hard for a tuner to squeeze horses safely, or engine builder to be careful of the thousand of bolts and washers in an engine.

am i right?? on my assumption based on the 3 blurred photos?? let me know. whati hve missed out and we can all learn from this experience together. but if im right 95&#37; of the fault lies in the tuning...
i still dont know the people involved.. :( it dosent matter... thats not the point. the point is im sure the tuner deep inside knows he wont let that happen again.. :))

btw the engine is not owe by you right?? it's ur friends right??
im getting confused.. just trying to help..

In fact, you should find out who tuned and maintained this engine for a good many months before it went. Also, it was tracked and trashed many times (ovvvveeeerrrrvvvvvveeeeddd) and by a number of different people. :wave:

Oh, did I mention that the engine only went after over a year? don't forget, this was a track engine...and made many many return journey's from Orange.

If I were you, I'd be more concerned about my own engine and who's touching it.

[e240]

man talking about perry motor went from shit to worse....

No, Perry's car went pretty well when I followed it...A pity I just never got the chance to drive it, otherwise...

[aznsiko]

hey E240 look.. im just saying what ive seen and what ive heard.. this thread was supposeto be for the boys outcome on their intake kits.. and hey i can you and everyone out there that im 150&#37; satisfied with the kit.. i support them in what they are selling and would recommend it anytime..

its cheap and very effective..!!! and im happy with who touch my car.. theyre are very qualified mechanics.. ive seen their work and cars that theyve built and have built a strong reputation for themselves and their workshop..

but anyways... intake kit-------> cheap very effective!!!! so if you wana be stubborn then dont worry.. but if you interested then again as i said i would recommend it anytime...

[e240]

We had a chance to take it for a session around wakefield in Perry Old ek with the toda built motor, hmmm how can i compare.... worst then a b16a motor?

Yeah, but given all the above posts, your opinion unfortunately is biaised.

[e240]

Aznsiko, as long as you're happy, thats fine - why bother about people's opinions? Everyone is entitled to their call, they don't have to accept the findings. If one had to reply to every post they don't like on an open forum, it had better be their full time job and I hope it pays well.

I have great respect for all the tuners and builders, everyone's build great engines, you don't hear me putting down other tuners do you? but what I'm against is a one sided story, especially when facts are deliberately being hidden for personal gain.

Unfortunately, painful & expensive lessons has led me to one builder/tuner who can be brutally honest, and some people don't like that.


hey E240 look.. im just saying what ive seen and what ive heard.. this thread was supposeto be for the boys outcome on their intake kits.. and hey i can you and everyone out there that im 150% satisfied with the kit.. i support them in what they are selling and would recommend it anytime..

its cheap and very effective..!!! and im happy with who touch my car.. theyre are very qualified mechanics.. ive seen their work and cars that theyve built and have built a strong reputation for themselves and their workshop..

but anyways... intake kit-------> cheap very effective!!!! so if you wana be stubborn then dont worry.. but if you interested then again as i said i would recommend it anytime...

[bennjamin]

i support them in what they are selling and would recommend it anytime..

sums up this thread. Hypocritical of the thread starter , and shame on everyone here taking a punt at everyone else.

Closed