vtec controller for FD1

[siu789]

any one know which vtec controller can use for 1.8 FD1 ?_?''
and anyone install vtec controller on their fd civic??/
beacuse i bought one in HK ...after install it ..the engine light is on ._.'''
:(
thz,

[aaronng]

FD1 cannot use VTEC controller because VTEC can activate at ANY RPM based on the load, the throttle, RPM and gear.

[markCivicVti]

LOL... oh how sad. The FD1 is a SOHC ivtec setup. There's no crossover line where vtec kicks in.

Basically for the FD1 it goes into vtec (fuel saving mechanism) mode when you are under 2.5 krpms (some say 2.3k) and are under low load.

But while i'm here I'll mention it again: I'd be interested in a ivtec indicator - to basically tell me when the fuel saving ivtec mechanism is operation - not quite as ricey as good ol dohc vtec... but it'd be interesting to see how you can slightly change ur driving style to save fuel consumption. I'm curious how often it switches between normal mode and ivtec mode while doig normal stop start traffic.

[siu789]

O....thz...that's the reason.Y the engine light is on ..when i install the vtec controller hehhe...thz@_@''

[cracker]

hahaha

[aaronng]

LOL... oh how sad. The FD1 is a SOHC ivtec setup. There's no crossover line where vtec kicks in.

Basically for the FD1 it goes into vtec (fuel saving mechanism) mode when you are under 2.5 krpms (some say 2.3k) and are under low load.

But while i'm here I'll mention it again: I'd be interested in a ivtec indicator - to basically tell me when the fuel saving ivtec mechanism is operation - not quite as ricey as good ol dohc vtec... but it'd be interesting to see how you can slightly change ur driving style to save fuel consumption. I'm curious how often it switches between normal mode and ivtec mode while doig normal stop start traffic.
That's easy. Run a light/resistor-LED in parallel to your VTEC solenoid. That will light up when it runs in "vtec" mode.

[Felix]

Y the engine light is on ..when i install the vtec controller hehhe...thz@_@''

OMG you serious?

[siu789]

yes...serious._.''

[n6290884]

Lol, can any of u guys teach me how to do that? :P thanks :D and where can i get a iVTec indicator.....

How abt a SAFC-II, will it work well with the FD1 R18?

[.k.]

wow im gonna bring this back to life because like this thread i was under the impression that r18 had no crossover like in dohc vtec.. then i came across this youtube - http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=siGTW8TSlb8.. plz explain? - could be that he wasnt full-throttle until he gets straight then flats it and that makes the sound but yeah.. ??

[markCivicVti]

The only time i hear a noticeable crossover point is when I have aircon on... after 5000rpms it must get turned off/down and then i hear a difference. But if our cars did have a crossover then I'd think it'd rev higher than 6.8k rpms :(

As slow as the FDs are (lol) I love my car... cleaned my car saturday and get looks and compliments left right and center.

Still want a ivtec indicator..

[ej20i]

well where is the vtec solenoid??hey man, since u installed the vtec controller...where did u plug it in??

[ekdez]

bump.

i have a controller at home sitting around..
would also like to install it.. just to see the screen moving LOL

[ej20i]

well...any info from OP where u connect it to??

[FallenAngel]

wow im gonna bring this back to life because like this thread i was under the impression that r18 had no crossover like in dohc vtec.. then i came across this youtube - http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=siGTW8TSlb8.. plz explain? - could be that he wasnt full-throttle until he gets straight then flats it and that makes the sound but yeah.. ??

There is a definate crossover @ 5500RPM. I can hear it in 3rd flat foot on the track. Another way is get the car on the dyno and u can definately hear it. Without the intake its quite hard to hear unless its on the dyno.

Street driving don't bother..

Edit - With an intake our fd's sounds exactly the same.. although the crossover was slightly more aggressive than fd's i've been in

[.k.]

lol so there is a crossover =P mind if i ask what intake your running?

[cracker]

5800rpm

[FallenAngel]

lol so there is a crossover =P mind if i ask what intake your running?

Injen CAI


5800rpm

Indeed i was wrong! My bad ^.^

[aaronng]

There is a definate crossover @ 5500RPM. I can hear it in 3rd flat foot on the track. Another way is get the car on the dyno and u can definately hear it. Without the intake its quite hard to hear unless its on the dyno.

That sound is from the variable length intake manifold. Not from vtec.

[d15z1SUX]

ozhonda fd1 owners saying in unison: "ohhhhhhhhh... d'oh"

[markCivicVti]

LOL... 90% of FD1 owners know we drive econoboxes... doesn't mean we can't do it in style lol.

[JOhnnyFD]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll126/GSXRSpeed/vtec_yo.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/z24sport/vtec_motiv.jpg

[Ray_mon]

ozhonda fd1 owners saying in unison: "ohhhhhhhhh... d'oh"

lmao

Pretty sure Fd1's don't have a crossover because the vtec is for economy, not performance.. as stated in a few posts above

[FallenAngel]

That sound is from the variable length intake manifold. Not from vtec.

Ah really... fair enough.. i guess i was misinformed -_-

[twing]

Honda is into i-vtec propaganda now. Most of their engine is called i-vtec.
Though they are all i-vtec, they can be different. Let me start.

i-vtec engine in jazz and city (L series engine)is fulltime 16 valve engine. On a preset rpm, it will switch to more agressive cam on intake *ONLY*. Think about the old d16y1 and d16y8 engine.

i-vtec engine in FD1 (R series engine), it delays the intake valve closing to reduce pumping lost. More info here...
http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/R18A/index.html
the video: http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2005-4050705a/

i-vtec engine in FD2 and Thai Accord and CRV is 12Valve economy mode + VTC (valve timing control) on intake. On high RPM, it will switch to 16Valve mode. When I say 12Valve, i mean on each cylinder, one intake valve just *slightly* opens. This is to promote swirl effect in the cylinder to promote better economy.
Watch the i-vtec demo video on this website:
http://civic.honda.com.au/about-the-car_performance-handling.aspx

Last i-vtec is the one in FN2, FD2R, and Accord Euro. It's fulltime 16 Valve + VTC on intake came. On certain RPM, it will switch the intake and exhaust to more aggressive cam profile.. and you will hear the ROAR... just like the good old B16 and B18. I think you can ONLY use the Vtec controller on this kind of engine.

google about Honda's engine for more info.

[JOhnnyFD]

"Owners of the new 8G Civic 1.8S should be proud and reassured that their new 1.8l SOHC i-VTEC engine is truly 'state of the art' !" :thumbsup:

[JOhnnyFD]

was driving home last night.. went up this hill and at around 4600rpm VTEC kicked in yo and i was lik w000t!!

and it's from an R18A.. lol weird

[FallenAngel]

Haha i don't think thats VTEC :P

FD1's are VTEC'in at 1000-3800RPM

[JOhnnyFD]

if thats not vtec.. then wat was that all about?

[curtis265]

yeah the R18 VTEC is sad vtec :( I'd like to have the classic 'kick' too, but it's only available for the K20As these days

[ej20i]

found the vtec solenoid to install vtec light!
will be my new project

[aero]

looks like we need to spend a crap load of money to get some fd2r k20 engines or the k24, for the classic vtec kick in performance... money which i probably will never have to spend on a car :(

[curtis265]

wai tthere's a website with the R18 vtec solenoid on it...

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0704_ht_r18_engine/photo_18.html

It shows it, but no tthe cable... It's sorta on the left, and behind the engine.

[blasdf]

yeah i wouldn't worry about making the car go fast.
plenty of time for fast cars eh, really for me i just wanted something to reliable to get me around as i only had a little oldschool daewoo, while ive been getting myself set up in surfers.
might have to get something like a r35 gtr next, haha

[aero]

wai tthere's a website with the R18 vtec solenoid on it...

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0704_ht_r18_engine/photo_18.html

It shows it, but no tthe cable... It's sorta on the left, and behind the engine.

soz, im pretty noob at this techincal and mechnical side of cars.. what is a solenoid and what does it do?

[FallenAngel]

if thats not vtec.. then wat was that all about?

The difference in sound is because of the 'Variable Length Intake Manifold'

Read about it here

http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/R18A/index.html

[ej20i]

so we can tap a light eh to indicate our 'vtec' behaviour?
hehehee

[FallenAngel]

I have no idea TBH..

If so you'd be vtec'in when ur crusin not gunning it lOL

[JOhnnyFD]

i get that vtec "boost" when i gun it everytime

[FallenAngel]

There would be a "boost" although very slight... i'm not sure how your measuring this or so but on my dyno sheet the curve is quite linear with a very slight "boost" at 5500-5800rpm.

So there is a slight boost but it aint VTEC =[

[JOhnnyFD]

hmmm... interesting

[JOhnnyFD]

was reading the tech specs of the R18A engine at http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/RiVTEC/index.html

so all in the all, VTEC is engaged btw 1000-3500rpm runnin on low cams and VTEC is off when operatin on high cams, above around 3500rpm... and thus its called i-VTEC (VTEC only engaged on certain driving conditions) and not the usually VTEC which opens after a certain rpm point.

also goes on to say VTEC is never engaged when driving aggressively

thought it'll post up this pic below
http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/RiVTEC/ivtec2.jpg

[markCivicVti]

I wish everyone would read that link.. so sick of the same questions :P

[JOhnnyFD]

quick summary above if ppl dont wanna read the entire article

[procrx88]

hey guys im new to this forum um in terms of vtec controller friend of mine said that if its activated b4 high rev the engine really lags, there's a reason why honda made it to come in at high rpms... its that true cuz im geting a vtec controller as well soon.

[curtis265]

^^use punctuation (i understand what you're saying though)

I think you're thinking of the old performance VTEC though.

OUrs is VTEC for economy - use lamer cams to decrease performance when ur not using ANY engine load (cruising etc)

[markCivicVti]

ProCRX88:

On a car with the traditional vtec, a vtec controller will not be any use in terms of power gains on a stock engine. Normally after an engine has been modded (Intake/Headers/Exhaust) you may be able to squeeze a little extra power by advancing the vtec crossover point.. but yes, on a stock engine it's pointless.

On the FD1 (as this thread is FD1 - r18a engine specific) the implementation of vtec is very different (read the link above)... there's NO certain crossover rpm like old school vtec.. and it's totally different anyway.

[procrx88]

oh okey thanks guys, um here's what iv done to mine so far its a B16a2:

-Spoon Cams (Int-256 dur. / 11.5mm lift Exh-245 dur. / 11.1mm lift)
-Spoon Cam Gears
-Toda Valve Springs
-Crower Valves
- Toda Retainers
-stock ecu )
-LSD
-5zigen header (4-2-1)
-KOYO twin core alloy radiator
-stock bottom end
-2.5 cat back to Xforce Varex Muffler

Hw much power gain if i used a Vtec and air-fuel controller?

[curtis265]

Keep to the R18A1 engine - i'm sure theres another thread for you.

[blasdf]

when driving around today in fd2 i felt a vtec change over in the higher RPM, im sure it was around 6000rpm or just a bit below, and it was very noticeable.
but unfortunately i could only get it to happen 2 times, then it didn't happen again. i take it this is the i- in i-vtec controlling a range of factors before it implements it.
i wonder if it woudl be possible to program the ecu, to ignore all fuel saving features to make a type of vtec controller to say make this change kick in at 5000rpm, with a full open vtec power from 5-6.8k rpm
it wont make more power obviously but the power curve would kick in earlier so should improve acceleration quite a bit.

[curtis265]

FD2's have K20 engines - a masterpiece under the hood. That's a perforance implementation VTEC. If you wanna try it again, just floor it - although i'm not soo sure about this particular K20... (we get a lame K20 in Australia)

[blasdf]

yeah its a K20Z2, which is weak in comparison to the type r versions of the engine, and si specs in the states.
i still have a feeling something is monitoring the kick in of the slight vtec push, because this i had never noticed before and ive floored my car a bit. but i was able to do it 2 times this afternoon. but the 3rd time no luck.
i'll have to test it out, but there was definitely a pick up of power around 6000rpm or so.
if this surge could be kicked in at 5000rpm, that would make the car feel better when revved out for sure.

[curtis265]

I guess it would. I've read a bit here and there about the Hondata reflash, but iuno whether or not it works for the K20Z2.

This will mess up your warranty tho, and cost a lot, and also increase the redline

[aaronng]

I guess it would. I've read a bit here and there about the Hondata reflash, but iuno whether or not it works for the K20Z2.

This will mess up your warranty tho, and cost a lot, and also increase the redline

Won't work since Hondata US made a reflash only for the base RSX, not the Civic. Even that reflash doesn't alter vtec point and doesn't increase the redline.

[Waternmo]

hey guys im in hk right now, spoken to J's Racing guy today and he told me alot bout FD2s. with the FD2r in HK with K20A, vtec point is at 5800rpm and is recommended to set to 5200rpm for street use, no power gain but u'll feel it pulls better coz of vtec engaging earlier. with our FD2 K20z2 in Oz, the vtec point is said to be around 4500rpm, when u slowly accelerate in 2nd gear u'll notice a slight change in sound but the acceleration is still smooth unlike the good old B series.

[curtis265]

^that's not fun is it :(

"VTEC nudged in yo!"

[curtis265]

Won't work since Hondata US made a reflash only for the base RSX, not the Civic. Even that reflash doesn't alter vtec point and doesn't increase the redline.

I didn't think of looking on their site!
http://www.hondata.com/reflash.html



RSX

* 2002-2004 RSX- Type S K20A2 RSX
* 2002-2004 RSX- Type S K20A2 with ITR Cams
* 2002-2004 Base RSX K20A3 RSX manual
* 2002-2004 Base RSX K20A3 RSX auto
* 2005-2006 RSX Type S K20Z1 RSX Type S

Civic SI

* 2002-2004 Civic Si K20A3 Civic Si
* 2006-2008 Civic Si K20Z3 Civic Si

Civic Type R

* 2007-2008 Japanese FD2
* 2007 European FN2

TSX

* 2004 TSX (manual & auto) K24A2 TSX
* 2005 TSX (manual & auto) K24A2 TSX 2005
* 2006 TSX (manual & auto) K24A2 TSX 2006

RDX

* 2007-2008 RDX K23A1 RDX

S2000

* 2006-2008 S2000 F22C stock
* 2006-2008 S2000 F22C with Toda Header

Jackson Racing Superchargers (available only through Jackson Racing):

* 2002-2004 RSX- Type S Race Upgrade K20A2 RSX Type S JRSC
* 2002-2004 Civic Si Race Upgrade K20A3 Civic Si JRSC

ECU must be sent to Hondata in order to be re-flashed with the updated program. Hondata does not sell direct - all sales and payment must be conducted through Hondata dealers. The upgrade information form must be sent with your ECU.


looks like we've got a lame, unreflashable K20

curious/stupid question: what makes the K20z2 different from the K20z3? can it be easily changed?

[blasdf]

yeah ive searched the net many times and have found nothing much about the k20z2 engine reflash, i beleive because it onyl works on the outflow of vtec, where as the type r engines work in intake and outtake? or vice versa, sorry i know a bit about cars, but hardly anything haha.
the thing that surprises me was my car definitely had a power band transfer yesterday at aroudn 6000rpm. it was almost like i went from half throttle to full throttle, that's what it felt like.
this leads me to believe the cars engine would have some way of havign the vtec system set a more static setup where it always changes at 5000rpm, opposed to using i vtec to change at any rev range depending on circumstances.
i think we just need to put some effort into exploring the engine and may find something.
just a pity that although i work in IT, i'm not a programmer, so I would probably break my car.
in regards to warranty, i'm not worried about that as i write off costs of my vehicle for tax purposes, so really the warranty only covers a few small things that i've already had fixed.

[aaronng]

I didn't think of looking on their site!
http://www.hondata.com/reflash.html



looks like we've got a lame, unreflashable K20

curious/stupid question: what makes the K20z2 different from the K20z3? can it be easily changed?

The K20Z3 is the one used in the DC5 Type S. So you get proper VTEC head and lightweight components in the block, plus your usually high RPM intake manifold and exhaust headers. Also, that runs 95 RON minimum instead of the 91 RON that the K20Z2 requires. If you want to change it, do an engine swap. But you'll have to research on your ECU options.

[blasdf]

hey guys im in hk right now, spoken to J's Racing guy today and he told me alot bout FD2s. with the FD2r in HK with K20A, vtec point is at 5800rpm and is recommended to set to 5200rpm for street use, no power gain but u'll feel it pulls better coz of vtec engaging earlier. with our FD2 K20z2 in Oz, the vtec point is said to be around 4500rpm, when u slowly accelerate in 2nd gear u'll notice a slight change in sound but the acceleration is still smooth unlike the good old B series.

can you find out from them if they no any way the vtec change be changed to engage under full throttle at a slightly higher rpm?
and perhaps explain what i felt in my car yesterday, under heavy acceleration there was definitely a power band pull from 6000rpm up ish, only in 800rpm of revving or so. and funny enough, i was in 2nd gear racing up to 100kph when i noticed this change 2 times.

i honestly think there isnt many products for this engine because places like HK etc, all have the JDM FD2R, so any performance guys get that vehicle.
but yet, there are many people with this type of engine, yet no one has looked into it.
yet i'm pretty sure, if someone properly looked into it, they woudl find something that would alter how it works on the vtec system to make the engine a little more racey.
i realise it is not a type r, but really, it shouldn't be as crippled as others say as it's still a honda engine, and everyone knows they come detuned from the factory always.

[blasdf]

The K20Z3 is the one used in the DC5 Type S. So you get proper VTEC head and lightweight components in the block, plus your usually high RPM intake manifold and exhaust headers. Also, that runs 95 RON minimum instead of the 91 RON that the K20Z2 requires. If you want to change it, do an engine swap. But you'll have to research on your ECU options.

so is the block the same size with the 20z2? could you get someone to modify the engine with the components of the other, or are there too many parts and missing parts on the block for this to happen?

[aaronng]

so is the block the same size with the 20z2? could you get someone to modify the engine with the components of the other, or are there too many parts and missing parts on the block for this to happen?

Costs more to swap components. You're better off replacing the whole engine. Downside is you have to register the new engine with the motor registry.

[blasdf]

why would that be a downside? because of warranty?
i could always do that as my car is a little on the high side of k's so i could use it as a perfect excuse to why i changed the engine.
but what sort of price are we thinking of for a full engine replacement, $10k ? heaps more, less?

[JOhnnyFD]

i know that the guys at Proconcept have got a F2DR K20A Engine from SPOON.

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo22/JOhnnyFD1/K20A_JDMFD2R.jpg

Might give em a buzz about it

[blasdf]

what do you think an engine would be worth? i have no idea about costs etc, but being a spoon fd2r i would imagine it's not too cheap.

[ej20i]

im thinking of doing the conversion for my car

[blasdf]

let us know how you get on and circa costs involved. i would interested in knowing what it costs and what parts are compatible, ie, can the engine and gear box be fitted first, and use same flywheel, clutch etc, or do heaps of parts need to change.
if the cost was getting quite high, it would be better to sell car and import an FD2R I think, although not sure what tax is set over here on cars.

[curtis265]

A K20A engine would be insanely expensive... but imagine having 165 kW NA... i'm drooling

[blasdf]

i owned an 02 DC5R in NZ, so I know what the power is like to drive on this, if it's the same as my old one.

I've had a few fast vtecs before, so having a FD2 is a bit different. But it was between this or an older Accord Euro. Sure they are nice, have capability from k24 engine, but I wanted something a bit newer, and don't like the new Accords or City's but i like Hondas.

But grrrr, 165kw in this civic would really be a lot of fun as I definitely miss reving out to 8000 and having a nice howling sound from the intake in the engine. hence why i was surpised when i felt a power kick at 6000rpm yesterday, oh i will be out again tonight testing it to see if i can make it happen again.
it seems this engine has a mind of it's own, sometimes feels sluggish, sometimes races along.

[aaronng]

why would that be a downside? because of warranty?
No, because you will have to get the engine number registered with your VIN number, and you might or might not need engineering depending on the extent of other mods needed to make the engine run.

[FallenAngel]

im thinking of doing the conversion for my car

I thought u were selling ur car :P

[JOhnnyFD]

the SPOON FD2R K20A can easily rev past 9000rpm and the stock engine is a new upgrade from the older K20A's from integras.

ive got no idea how much its gonna cost in getting this SPOON engine over here.. the proconcept guys have got 2 i think or in the process of getting another one over.

better off getting someone in NZ to import a stock FD2R.. cant believe NZ has got those FD2R beauties ><

[blasdf]

yeah my mate has had an fd2r for quite a while, but got it before i moved over here last may. he was always impressed with my itr as he had an evo 5 and we regulary raced and he would get me off the line but on rolling starts he couldn't loose me.
he said he's happy to have got it, i said im gutted they arent here as i hate the heavier FN2R.
i could probably try and get a car imported over, the only problem is i think you pay tax here unless you have owned the car in NZ for a certain period of time. I never looked into it when i came over as I wanted to sell my car to cover some expenses i had. sort of thinking it might have been better to import as you dont see many nice jap cars over here.
but ahh, the fd2 is fine for me at the moment, still revs out fine and doesnt attract much attention from the po po, which is something i find very relaxing when driving around here haha.