Advice on tranny rebuild

[JohnCRX]

Just been stuffed around by "so called warranty" on JDM package B16/Y1.
Now I got to do a rebuild myself as the 3rd gear synchro is shot.
I would really appreciate some advice by anyone who has replaced synchros, as I will be flying by the seat of my pants - 1st timer for a Honda tranny rebuild.
So where do you get the synchros; Honda or pattern part; how much?

And what oil should I use when it's done?
Manual specifies 10w30 or 10w40 engine oil.
People talk about Honda MTF but my local agent doesn't even keep it. Is it 10W30 or more like 80W90?
Have also heard good things about Castrol Syntrax 75W90.
Anybody cured the 3rd gear crunch with a magic elixer or is the only fix to get new synchros?

[Setanta]

Ouch. Does Honda Au support the Y1? If you have no luck with them, maybe contact Honda NZ as a friend got support parts for his EF9 from there (helps that he lives in NZ). I'd go genuine personally. I'd be contacting the dept. of fair trading before I did any rebuild myself - as soon as you pull that box open you void any chance of getting warentee.

Hope you sort it all out mate.

[ECU-MAN]

I agree with Setanta, once you open the box you got no hope going down any legal avenues, So if you bite the bullet and decide to pull it apart, you need to concider how far you go with rebuilding it, you need to carefully inspect all parts, check your shafts for ovality, check each and every bearing and gear, you need to set the preload for the differential and shaft clearences, once you opened the box, these things have to be inspected. your best bet is to search the internet for a manual that suits your box and follow it step by step, you could fix the problem but have you fixed the cause ???
also get your dealer to get in some MTF in dont put 70w80 in it its to heavy or a Honda Box.

[JohnCRX]

The mechanical who supposedly opened it up under warranty said the 3rd synchro was "glazed". Then claims he unglazed it so now it will be OK. This will be a miracle if that is the case. Think it would be a waste of time if I don't open it up and take a look myself before it goes back in.
There is a dude in the States on Honda-Tech who offers new 3,4,5 synchro package for Y1 tranny, including delivery to Oz for US$108. Very tempted to get it after I take a look at the synchros in mine.
I'm liking what I read (on Honda-Tech as well) about GM Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (also made by Pennzoil).
Anyone know if it is available here?

[ECU-MAN]

if you do open it make sure you use a torque wrench when you do the housing up and follow the manual on the torque settings and sequence ( very important )

[mr crex]

http://www.gear-speed.com/

this place does the synchros and bearings for all b-series boxes

a couple of us are thinking of maybe buying some sets since Honda AUS dont wanna know ya and Honda NZ just gave me the run around when I was looking at rebuilding my Y1

I wont be purchasing synchro sets until after CRX Nationals in October as I gotta same my $$$ for that, but before xmas I am going to buy sets for box the Y1 and YS1 as my new YS1 already makes bearing noise :(

I would say this place is prob the best way to go if you can get them to ship to Australia.

[JohnCRX]

. .

[JohnCRX]

Well, it's "done" ready to fit in tomorow.
First thing, I definitely got conned on the warranty repair. When I opened up the box, the magnet was still covered with metallic grit, so I doubt the mechanic even opened up the box, sure didn't clean it.
Next he claimed there was still "1.5mm" space between the synchro cone and the 3rd gear. Well he needs a new set of feeler gauges as I only got 0.7mm. New clearance is 1mm and wear limit is 0.4mm.
So I see the 3,4 and 5 bronze synchros are all the same size ... thinking :rolleyes: .... well the clearance on the 5th gear was about 0.8mm, more than on 3rd gear. So I did a swap, the thicker 5th is now on 3rd ;) .
So that is why 3rd is the first one to go bad...synchro ring on 1st is the largest, then on 2nd is next largest, and then 3rd, 4th, and 5th all get the same size synchro ring. So probably 1st, 2nd, and 5th are adequate design by comparable sizes, but poor old 3rd (and to a lesser extent 4th) is marginal and underdesigned by comparison.
OK, now I have a bit thicker (and less used) synchro ring on that troublesome 3rd, plus I have cleaned out the grit off magnet, plus now I'm going to use Honda MTF 75W80 instead of 15W50 motor oil/ :D .
And maybe if I just change a little slower and double clutch..I'm OK again.
Anyhow, if the thing still crunches, I'll just go and order the set of three newies from that dude in the States for US$108 delivered and get around to doing it all over again.
Watch this space.

[ECU-MAN]

thats Good Stuff JohnCRX,
I hope you checked your synchro sleave and 3rd gear syncro teeth for ware as well, the teeth should be < not ( , ( pointed not rounded ). thats good that you checked all your clearences, Very important. you noticed how 1st and 2ng gear syncros where bigger than 3rd 4th 5th gear, its not underdesigned, its that 1st and 2nd take more load than the rest of the gears to they tend to fail before the others, if anything 1st and 2nd are over designed. hope it all goes well for you, sucks you had to do it your self when you car has some kind of warrante, BTW top up your power stearing fluid :)

[Setanta]

Nice work :) Maybe we should see if we can get a discount if a number of us go for a group buy on parts for the Y1.

[ECU-MAN]

Nice work :) Maybe we should see if we can get a discount if a number of us go for a group buy on parts for the Y1.

Dont organise it through the forums.

see link below
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4963

[JohnCRX]

Well it turned out great...the tranny is as good as new again!
I have used Honda MTF 78W80, it is VERY thin, like the engine oil I was using before.
Not sure if the oil cured the crunch, or maybe the warranty "repair" actually did work. The mechanical said the synchro ramp on 3rd gear had bronze build up and was subsequently "glazed". I was a sceptic when he reckoned he "deglazed" the ramp, but maybe he did it and it has worked OK.
Whatever, the tranny is feeling like new, without any new parts.
If you guys got a crunch that can't be cured with good MTF, it's a lotta work but maybe you could look at deglazing the bronze deposit and swap in the 5th synchro ring as well......works for me......lotta work though.
Looks like I won't be needing new rings in the near future afterall.

ECU MAN ....good observation 'bout the power steering fluid....I moved the car about my garage with the pump and motor out the car, and the rack pushed a half a litre up all over the floor. Must get around to refill next time Supa Cheap got 20% off.

Cheers guys, nice to know someone cares. :thumbsup:

[tinkerbell]

ECU MAN ....good observation 'bout the power steering fluid....I moved the car about my garage with the pump and motor out the car, and the rack pushed a half a litre up all over the floor. Must get around to refill next time Supa Cheap got 20% off.



i dont think supacheap sells Honda Power Steering fluid??? :thumbdwn:

[JohnCRX]

Tinkerbell
When we going to get a run around Eastern Creek next in the Hondas?
I'm out with the BMW club on the 19th Sept, but can't wait to run the CRX around. :D

[tinkerbell]

Tinkerbell
When we going to get a run around Eastern Creek next in the Hondas?
I'm out with the BMW club on the 19th Sept, but can't wait to run the CRX around. :D

we are going out on the 28th of October to the motoconcepts day - with the ClubRSX boys...

[JohnCRX]

we are going out on the 28th of October to the motoconcepts day - with the ClubRSX boys...


David
When you say "we" are going out...is this a Honda Club NSW event?
Where is the event?
How many supersprints a year do the HCC attend?