94 Vti-R running cool (not in a good way)

[Stabo]

G'day guys.

Im new to these boards. I bought a 1994 Vti-R Integra about 2-3weeks ago and everything is fine except that the temperature gauage seems to spend most of its time down the cold end.

If im driving slowly through traffic it gradually heats up and the needle sits about half way (which is where i thought it was suposed to be) but once i start going a faster for longer stretches the temperature goes back down.

I warm the car up before i use it, and the auto choke is working normally. Im just wondering if its a problem with the Thermostat or if Vti-R's just run cooler in general?

any info would be most appriciated.

Cheers!

[Teggy-Vtir]

i have the same problem, in my 94 vtir teg aswell
i fink it mite b the thermostat playing up (i fink thats wat its called)

[fried]

if its anywhere between 1/4 to 1/3 that should be alright???

my old teg, used to be really tempermental to the temperature outside. if freewaying and cruising at night on a cool night, it would go nice and cool. on a hot day.. it owud heat up bout halfway.

my current teg... seems to jsut sit round 3/8s just off centre.

[Savant]

Check the temp outside. It's winter!! (well second say of spring)! so it's cold. When you are travelling at a speed (say 80 in 5th) you are doing about 3000RPM which isn't that much. You have heaps of cold air coming into the engine bay at that speed cooling the whole lot down.

If the thermostat was playing up , the needle wouldn't ever reach halfway.

[major_matt]

I have a DC2R (2000 model) and the temp on it sits a about 3/8's as well... But I do the Hume Hwy (Canberra to Syd) run once a month normally and the temp will get down to under 1/4 I'd say...

Like Savant said, Its winter outside, dont take it as much... (just be thankful its not sitting on the OTHER side of that 1/2 way marker ;) )

[lerroy]

Check the temp outside. It's winter!! (well second say of spring)! so it's cold. When you are travelling at a speed (say 80 in 5th) you are doing about 3000RPM which isn't that much. You have heaps of cold air coming into the engine bay at that speed cooling the whole lot down.

If the thermostat was playing up , the needle wouldn't ever reach halfway.

what savant said :P

when you stop and start the engine heats up becasue the radiator isnt getting air blown into it to cool the water/engine etc...
when you drive long stretches and faster nore air flow cools the engine'



my temp guage never really gets over a 1/3 even in traffic its mostly down at zero :P

[wynode]

The temp gauge should be below halfway most of the time. If the engine is getting excessively hot when you are in traffic, just check to make sure your thermo fan is working properly.

[Da1nONLY]

when warm...mine sits at 3/8 of the way....
anything below 1/8 ...VTEC wont kick in....
well in my R anyways =)..

[Stabo]

Cheers for the replies guys.

Everything you've said makes sense. i.e travel faster more air gets in, cools down the engine etc (i did think of tha :) )

What concerns me is the sometimes lack of power ... when the needle is about half way after a bit of city driving the car seems to pull alot harder. When its "cool" it just doesnt seem as powerful, its as if the V-tec does nothing...

I could be completely tripping, and im glad to hear that they do generally run fairly cool. Its just every other car ive had/driven just goes to about halfway and stays there.... i guess it'll just take some getting used to.

[g3vtir]

Stabo,

Just last night i replaced my Thermostat. And guess what? now my temp is constant at about 40%. Doesnt move up or down when warmed up. The thermostat's job is to keep it at constant temperature which is the VTiR's recommended operating temp. I also have a 1995 VTiR integra. Had this problem for about a month. I only just bought it a month ago also. Trust me, replce the thermostat and it will go back to normal. It shouldnt move, maybe 1mm either way and thats it. Took me about 30 min to replace...but 1 and a half hours to take one bolt off the thermostat housing...i dont have proper tools...

[Stabo]

g3vtir,

cheers mate, thats exactly what i needed to hear, lol

I'll look into replacing it as soon as possible (hopefully tomorrow)
btw how much did it cost to buy a new one?

Thanks again!

[g3vtir]

Stabo,

I bought it from a Japanese Auto parts for $24...Auto One sells it for $24 also, Repco is about $26. You can also buy the gasket for it or just re-use the old one if it is still in a good condition. I know its better to buy new gaskets. I think its only about $5 anyways.

Yeah apparently when the thermostat goes bad and its always on cold, the car is always in warm up mode, which means its running rich, and also Vtec would sometimes not engage.

[ECU-MAN]

Hey Stabo, it is posible that your thermostat is a bit sticky in the open state, this will cause the temp to drop as you cruise, your temp should be stable and not fluctuate in this weather. its normal for you car to be underpowered if the engine is to cold as Vtec will not kick in as some one mentioned above. I recommend a genuine thermostat and replace the oring, use genuine coolant as well. if you are going to do it your self, you must crack open the cooling system bleed nipple when filling it up with coolant as you dont want any air pockets in you engine.

[Stabo]

ECU man,

Cheers for the info, i might just get it done by a mechanic instead of doing it myself. I dont really want to take any risks. I doubt it'll cost all the much :/

Thanks to all who have replied, i'll let you know how it pans out.

[davemaca]

yep, its the thermostat, i had exactly the same problem on my old 94 vtir just after I bought it, it is a common problem. Honda fixed it for me.

[[XsCaPe]]

im glad i read this thread, im having the same problem.

except i think its worse in my case!.. the temperature has never gone above a quarter.. and when cruizing at 100km/ph, it actually drops under the cold line.. and vtec will not engage.

new thermostat here i come

[Stabo]

haha looks like it really is a fairly common problem.

Perhaps its worth mentioning it in one of the sticky technical threads?

[K3NstyL]

It's better that you got onto these problems before the peak of summer, because with faulty thermostats there is always the flip side of the coin for being excessively cold...

[linkorr]

mmm looks like i'm not alone here.

g3vtir - did you do the job yoruself? sounds like you did. Would it be too troublesome or require some expertise??

[g3vtir]

linkorr,

Yeah i did it myself...overall it should only take about 30min...but you gotta wait till your engine is cold.

Na no expertise needed. Here is what you should do.

1. take intake pipe off
2. follow the lower radiator hose to where it connects, thats the thermostat housing.
3. remove the sensor and ground wire attached to the housing.
4. There are two bolts to remove. Now the top one is easy to get, but the bottom one is hard. This took me about 1.5 hours to get out. I tried everything to get it out. I didnt have proper tools so it was hard. You need something that bends. Like a socket wrench with a bend on it coz the started motor gets in the way.
5. After you remove the two bolts, take the housing off, then pull out the thermostat. Put the new one back in. Dont forget to replce the gasket.
6. Put everything back in and replace the coolant lost in the process.

Does that kinda explain what i did?

[snowman95]

Stabo,

Just last night i replaced my Thermostat. And guess what? now my temp is constant at about 40%. Doesnt move up or down when warmed up. The thermostat's job is to keep it at constant temperature which is the VTiR's recommended operating temp. I also have a 1995 VTiR integra. Had this problem for about a month. I only just bought it a month ago also. Trust me, replce the thermostat and it will go back to normal. It shouldnt move, maybe 1mm either way and thats it. Took me about 30 min to replace...but 1 and a half hours to take one bolt off the thermostat housing...i dont have proper tools...

correct, your thermostat is stuck permanently open position, its a common problem on tegs, (happened to me) replace it and revel in the glory of having a temp gauge that sits 1/3 of the way on the gauge

[Hondavirgin]

a bit late, but i had exactly the same problem as well, 1/4 temp in solw areas, but on the freeway down to as low as it could go.

Thermostat replaced by Honda = all good.

[Stabo]

haha there is gonna be an Australia wide shortage of Honda Thermostats ;)

Just got mined fixed too, the mechanic said it was "bent and mangled" hahaha.

so yeh now the temp sits at about 40% and the car runs AWESOME! Its like a whole different car. (just took it from a little thrash in the hills)

Thanks to everyone who replied!
~Stabo

[g3vtir]

Stabo,

So you got it done today as we were talking about it? Gee eager beaver.. hehe

it feels better now aye that you know its all good!!!

[Stabo]

haha yeh man, when it comes to the car i dont mess around ;)

And yes it feels so much better, i only wish i did it sooner. I cringe at the thought of me revving it out when it was "cold"

But its all good now, I finally feel like a Vti-R owner :)

[g3vtir]

That is exactly how i felt. I thought to myself "damn i've been driving it and gunning it with a cold engine, i hope i didnt do any damage", but now i feel very relieved that i have fixed it. It feels complete again

[ECU-MAN]

All you Vtir teg owner who have had his problem must stop to apriciate the quality of your honda, yes your 10 yr old thermostat shat itself but it has in a way that it dindt overheat your engine. 90% of honda thermostats iv ever seen seize or become faulty have done so in the open state thus allowing coolant to flow, most other manufacture and non genuine thermostate seize in the closed state which = no coolant flow and an overheating engine which = posible engine damage. thats why I love genuine Honda thermostats, there worth every penny IMO.

[Stabo]

haha dont get us wrong ECU man, we're not complaining. We just felt bad about thrashing the car when it was cold ;)

Im glad it ran too cold rather than too hot, because you're right it would have been ALOT worse.

[ECU-MAN]

Nah Dude, Im not saying you guys are complaining, Im just trying to make yall apriciate your honda even more than you allready do :)

[linkorr]

linkorr,

Yeah i did it myself...overall it should only take about 30min...but you gotta wait till your engine is cold.

Na no expertise needed. Here is what you should do.

1. take intake pipe off
2. follow the lower radiator hose to where it connects, thats the thermostat housing.
3. remove the sensor and ground wire attached to the housing.
4. There are two bolts to remove. Now the top one is easy to get, but the bottom one is hard. This took me about 1.5 hours to get out. I tried everything to get it out. I didnt have proper tools so it was hard. You need something that bends. Like a socket wrench with a bend on it coz the started motor gets in the way.
5. After you remove the two bolts, take the housing off, then pull out the thermostat. Put the new one back in. Dont forget to replce the gasket.
6. Put everything back in and replace the coolant lost in the process.

Does that kinda explain what i did?

thanks g3vtir.. will see what i can get from auto one. hopefully i don't mess it up.. it sounds fairly simple.. ;) I got a honda manual and found the same steps too ;)

good on all you guys who fixed your problems.. :D:D:D

[wynode]

Looks like this is a common problem. When I was at Hanny's last weekend there was another DC2 which had the exact same problem :)

[bennjamin]

its a common thing yes...for not being replaced for say more than 5-10 years or so lol...thank God for honda's that dont break even under these extreme cases :D:D:D

BTW my lil si is doin the same thing....and a thermo change is on the dial...

[Stabo]

haha ECU Man , no worries there thats why i chose a Honda/VTEC over a turbo car id be forever repairing ;)

Its good to see lots of peoples cars got fixed because of thread, cheers to ozhonda and all who contributed!

[Speeder]

hey ive got a dc2r, and i just got it about 2 weeks ago, my engine temp is sitting around the 40% mark, just below the middle. should i worry about it? or is that normal?? because i believe few people have this problem?? the car drives good but just for assurance. someone said that is normal in the 1st page of this thread so im just double checking.
thanks :)

[g3vtir]

Yeah sitting at about 40% is normal. its when it doesnt reach 40% or exceeds 40% when you gotta start to worry

[Lepperfish]

Yep, I agree, about 3/8ths, just under halfway, on my DC2R.. It is very consistent on that reading too.. Cheers..

[Miss VTi-R]

yeah i was wonderin the same thing but i just thought it was normal

thanks for answerin my q's and i didn't even have to ask


Becs

[alzteg]

are the thermos avaliable from repco etc original honda ones?
do you guys know how much labour would cost to get it replaced?

[Savant]

you can't get oem honda ones from repco, they sell their own brand one which will work just fine and is much cheaper.

many people will say the honda one is better, which it probably is, but i doubt you will have your car another 10 years from the time you change your thermostat.

i don't know how much labour it will cost to get it replaced but it is very easy to do yourself. there are a few DIY articles floating around on the internet on how to replace it.

[alzteg]

has anyones themostat failed on them?

non-oem one?

if so did it fail in the same way the honda one does?

whats the longs any1's had the replace ment for?

i think when the do your fuel pump... the don't use original ones... and they change ur thermo too...

so maybe some1's had this done agez ago

ok went repco and it was 35 for the thermo & 19 for the gasket..
autobarn was 19 and they didn't have any in stock... and the gasket wasn't listed so they didn't have any even tho the guy said it goes for about 3 bux.

Also called up Josh Sady Car parts and the honda oem thermo & gasket is $56

[mikes94]

Can anyone tell me if its necessary to drain the cooling system before changing the thermostat ... or can I get by with doing it full and topping up afterwards?

Cheers
Mike

[ECU-MAN]

you dont need to drain the entire coolant, make sure you top it up with the same coolant and bleed the cooling system.
but make sure you change the coolant if its thrashed or been in there for more than 20000 kms

[Duesta]

Hi guys
newbie poster here.

I just recently got myself a 96 integra, and i think i'm having the same problem with my thermostat.
There's probably a number of you who got it fixed at a mechanic. Can anyone tell me how much they got it done for? Parts + labour?

[Hondavirgin]

If you got it from a yard it should be covered under the statutory warranty i would think (at least mine was, unless its very different in NSW from WA).

[lerroy]

Does anyone know the Part numbers From honda

And ppl that got it done at Honda how much alltogether ???
thanks

[Duesta]

i got quoted $200-$250 from Honda... i only called Trivett and Ricky D's and that's what they quoted me.
Hanny's said they'd do it for $60

[TRU32U]

yeah my DC2 sits on 1\4 and never moves at long as its not ova heating i guess

[dimsum]

Just to make sure. How do u tell if there is a problem with the car???

[swordfish]

if you dont fix it will it be a problem?

[ECU-MAN]

yes
coz if the thermostat for some reson closes and stays closed then your engine will overheat, then posibly damaging your engine ( head or head gasket)

[g3vtir]

and if it remains open, then your engine will never reach operating temp and will run cold...

[stormridah]

i just got a vtir a few days ago, when im sitting idle at a traffic light or driving around in peak traffic the temp gauge hangs around 1/2 way, but when i drive aroudn at 60kph or so for a lil while it goes all the way back down to zero... is this the same problem or is it that its just damn cold here in sydney???

[Hondavirgin]

same problem i reckon, from memory mine did sort of the same thing when i was stopped.

[swordfish]

hey guys, that would be the same problem - i used to have all those symtoms, but just got the termo replaced and the car is heating up as it should!!
thank god i read this thread!!

[stormridah]

yeah took my car down to hannys and they replaced it for me ... car feels so much better with vtec :)

[dimsum]

ok, i went to repco today to buy a thermostat
1st problem: there are 2 types of thermostats, 'off-angle' and 'straight'
2nd problem: it cost me 34 for the thermo and 18 for the gasket. i thought it was only suppose to cost 30max...

[ECU-MAN]

go get a genuine thermostat and problem 1 will go away
then problem 2 will be more worse, but you will get better life out of the oem thermostat

[dimsum]

fitted and good as new.

[Shraka]

I have the same problem. If I park the car and turn it off, the temp pretty quickly gets up to about 1/3 (about 10 mins). When I start it again and drive around, it slowly goes down back to the cold marker.

I've noticed something interesting. It feels like the VTEC only kicks in at about 6800rpm? Should it come in at about 5000? I might try driving my car, stopping and letting it warm up, then see if the VTEC kicks in properly.

I'll get the thermostat changed asap.

Update:

Just got my thermostat changed along with the sender for the temp guage.
Thermostat was sticking and temp guage was sending wrong signal.

It'll all fixed now and driving wonderfully. I kept a log of petrol useage, so now I'll check if the economy is better. I'll give you guys an update on that soon.

[VtecHungry]

most times the spring in the thermostat gives up and keep the thermostat open bascially the thermostat works on the principal of heat to encourage the spring to force the thermostat open when hot , problem is i have seen a couple that get stuck on the closed side and it only takes so long befor colant cannot flow and you effectivly boil your motor and start boom, fun is all over, just change it happened to me before (stuck open) took 20 mins to change and now everything runs deffiently fine

[shebangs]

My new 95 DC2 I just bought I also thought was running a little cold. Rarely moved off the Cold initial line. So when I took it to my mechanic to do the usual used car purchase of changing all fluids, I got him to put a new Honda OEM Thermostat and Gasket for it.

Now she sits nicely at 40% which seems alot more realistic.

Can't comment on whether the car 'feels completely' different though :) Maybe mine wasnt in bad condition as some others on here. I did it more for peace of mind.

[munter]

Chalk another one up for the stuck open thermostat. I replaced the one in my DC4 today and now the temp is far more consistent at just over 1/3.

Thermostat + gasket cost me $55 from Col Crawford Honda in Sydney.

[Trojan]

Mmmmmm......after reading this thread now i gotta go spend more money and go get my Thermostat raplaced aswell.....God bless this forum but ignorance would have been cheaper!!!


I'll let you all know how the replacement went...cost and result.....intending to do it on my own today!!

[shebangs]

Thermostat + gasket cost me $55 from Col Crawford Honda in Sydney.
Yep. Another $20-$30 for fitting by a typical mechanic.

[Stabo]

Good see my thread has helped so many ppl :)

[Trojan]

98 teg vtir.......use to run at cold line on highway and only ever went to normal temp (1/3) when was idling or after a strapping.
$55 bucks later (Honda in Wollongong) and 45min spent fitting (on my own- pretty easy) and it was a new thermostat. Just came back from a 1hr test drive and temp stayed constant no matter how i was driving it.
All is working great now!! Thanks to this thread that is.....

[teaseR]

Ive got the same problem too... i thought i was getting good air-flow thats why it stays at the Cold
just called up Nordic Honda in SA for a genuine thermostat $63.50 comes witht he rubber gasket thing
thanks guys need to replace mine

[Jon_51]

so if i'm driving on the highway on a pretty cold night, is it normal that the temp guage goes down? or is the thermostat def stuck open?

[Trojan]

so if i'm driving on the highway on a pretty cold night, is it normal that the temp guage goes down? or is the thermostat def stuck open?


If ur dial goes anywhere near the cold line, no matter how cold it is, ur guage is definitly stuck. In the cold it will go down slightly but not as far down as the cold line.

[Felix]

yeah i think i should replace mine. Havent been worrying about it. I knew it was broken, but thourght "what damage will it cause"...

so will it cause any damage if its not fixed??
Apart from the car idleing a bit higher is there any reason to get it fixed?

[aaronng]

so if i'm driving on the highway on a pretty cold night, is it normal that the temp guage goes down? or is the thermostat def stuck open?
If it goes down on the highway and comes back up when you stop your car and idle, then your thermostat is stuck open.

[aaronng]

yeah i think i should replace mine. Havent been worrying about it. I knew it was broken, but thourght "what damage will it cause"...

so will it cause any damage if its not fixed??
Apart from the car idleing a bit higher is there any reason to get it fixed?
Warm engine oil is better when you are revving your car. Warm oil flows better than cold oil.

[Felix]

if thermo is registering low, then oil will be warm..

[aaronng]

if thermo is registering low, then oil will be warm..
If the thermostat has failed and the coolant temperature gauge is working fine, then it shows that your coolant temperature is low. Low coolant temperature that is circulating through the radiator, will remove heat from the engine block, lowering the temperature of the block and the engine oil.

[rmalov]

i have the same problem with my 98 vti-r, the mechanic changed my thermostat with a genuine honda one, but it still does the exact same thing could it be a different problem?, i went back to the mechanic and he told me i might need a different type of thermostat, one that opens only a small bit at boiling point, he told me. is this a good idea?

anyone know??

[rmalov]

could it be my temperature sensor or anything else??

[aaronng]

Check the temperature sensor if you have already installed a new Honda thermostat.

[datzlr]

hahah same thing happens to mine but the fan works all fine etc so its a bad thing? when its on cold mode ?

[xenonkuraz]

I'm glad I ended up reading this thread. The first time I saw it I just overlooked it.

Today, I went to Astoria Honda to get a new Thermostat for $54.95 (including the gasket). The Service centre quoted $149 and 2 hours with my car to replace it...apparently it needed to fully cool down. Screw that!

I took it to my local mechanic (a good one) and he said he'd do it for $20 in 20 minutes. True to his word, 20 minutes later I drove away with my car feeling totally smoother.

woot!

[Ericx]

I was just wondering would this faulty thermostat influence the bad fuel economy? Because my '98 model dc2 has the same faulty thermostat problem and I still haven't got around to gain my fuel economy up.

[Shraka]

I was just wondering would this faulty thermostat influence the bad fuel economy? Because my '98 model dc2 has the same faulty thermostat problem and I still haven't got around to gain my fuel economy up.
My fuel economy was pretty average. I was babying it about (as it wouldn't warm up) and getting about 11ltr/100km. Now that it's fixed I drive normally with the occasional boot in and I get 9-10ltr/100km.

So I'd say yeah, it could cause economy problems.

[bennjamin]

screwed thermo caused my car to run rich(er) and just run crap in general. didnt feel strong at all ( B18c7) and it took a couple of motorway trips to workout what was wrong.

If your temp DROPS on a long drive then change the thermo asap !

[Ericx]

I've reset my ECU following Big'O's DIY and i finally see my temp go up a bit, but it still drops slowly when i run at 70km/h. So i guess i'm changing it no matter what. I bought the thermostat + gasket for $63 at Essendon Honda Parts store. Just one more question, what coolant should I use? original Honda coolants or any other coolants available?

[T-onedc2]

Only use Honda coolant is what I've heard many times.

[Ericx]

Roger :) how much is it? almost going broke, need a job...

[T-onedc2]

I think it was about $35-$50, really can't remember sorry.

[xenonkuraz]

What are the implications of not using coolant and just using plain water? I've seen it happen with many cars...

[T-onedc2]

You can use distilled water for minor top ups but too much of it will dilute the coolant. Water on it's own will corrode the engine and radiator quickly and I think coolant may have a higher boiling point also, someone correct me on that last one if I'm wrong.

[ECU-MAN]

What are the implications of not using coolant and just using plain water? I've seen it happen with many cars...

radiator core will rott away
waterpump will fail
cylinder head water jackets on the head surface will corode away ( $$$$$)
head gasket could fail
water pipe from the back of the block from waterpump to thermostate housing will rust out.

all this will happen over time but some will happen sooner than others. even with crappy coolant the aove will occure over time.

5l $30 coolant from honda is cheap insurance

[Flimsy Crim]

Well my DC2 had the same issues so I headed down to Southiside Honda and picked up a Thermostat then and having done this on my previous Civic in the past I figured I'd just do it myself.

Typical Honda really, easy job just tricky to get to.

Not to mention the drain plug for the radiator that was a real biatch, so much so that I wasn't sure if I had managed top get it back on tight enough.

As it turned out when I took it for her maiden voyage after the work the damn thing wasn't on tight enough so I jacked her up on the side of the road and got in there and have it all sorted now and she is running soooo much better it is amazing! :thumbsup:

[tegy_boi]

If the thermostat is playing on you,
the bottom radiator hose will be more heated (hotter) compared to the top hose because the thermostat is blocking the water from coming up.

Another way to test it is, to take out the thermostat and put it in a cup of boiling hot water observe:

If the rubber expands the thermostat is fine.
If the rubber doesnt expand the thermostat needs to be replaced.

But since the thermostat is out anyway, I'd suggest to replace it to save you the trouble when it acts up later down the track.

[AzKik-R]

does anyone use cardboard to cover the bottom half of the radiator?
I've never really had a problem with the car running cold.... hmmmm might be because its 40 outside? :D

[VTECMACHINE]

when warm...mine sits at 3/8 of the way....
anything below 1/8 ...VTEC wont kick in....
well in my R anyways =)..

Water temp is not related to VTEC kicking in. Oil temp, thus pressure is.

[kiet88]

could someone just confirm that it is not necessary to drain the radiator when replacing the thermo stat

[Trojan]

could someone just confirm that it is not necessary to drain the radiator when replacing the thermo stat

You are going to lose alot of water when you remove the pipe that leads to your thermostat so you might aswell use this as an opportunity to drain your radiator and fill it up with fresh water/coolant. However it is not necessary to flush the radiator when changing thermostat, however I recommend you do.

Either way expect a fair amount of water to run out so do it near a drain or something.

[kiet88]

damn i just recently changed my coolant like 1500km ago

[Shraka]

Water temp is not related to VTEC kicking in. Oil temp, thus pressure is.

But if your coolant is keeping the oil too cool it wont activate, will it? I also thought that VTEC wouldn't switch to the high cam when the engine is cold as a safety feature.

[danny_2132]

i got an 98 integra vtir last week and i thrashed it for the first time and i dont think vtec kicked it. whats going on? i dont notice any change in power or anything it just revs up smoothly to 8k rpms.

[T-onedc2]

But if your coolant is keeping the oil too cool it wont activate, will it? I also thought that VTEC wouldn't switch to the high cam when the engine is cold as a safety feature.
I have found this to be true, even after 5 minutes of driving down a hill on a cold night, sometimes vtec won't engage until it's warmer.

[Shraka]

I have found this to be true, even after 5 minutes of driving down a hill on a cold night, sometimes vtec won't engage until it's warmer.

You probably don't want to be driving it that hard till it's warm anyway. The pistons, piston rings, and bore all change shape at different rates as they heat up. Your engine isn't actually tuned, or running properly, until it's warm.

[T-onedc2]

You probably don't want to be driving it that hard till it's warm anyway. The pistons, piston rings, and bore all change shape at different rates as they heat up. Your engine isn't actually tuned, or running properly, until it's warm.
I don't intend to, normally five minutes is heaps, but this time I got to the bottom of a long hill, at the intersection below decided to give some berries and nothing to show, obviously I noticed immediately and barely hit 5k and looked at the gauge and realised what happened.

[Shraka]

I don't intend to, normally five minutes is heaps, but this time I got to the bottom of a long hill, at the intersection below decided to give some berries and nothing to show, obviously I noticed immediately and barely hit 5k and looked at the gauge and realised what happened.

Fair enough.

[danny_2132]

so how fast should my car be if it hits vtec? cause im kinda new dis is my first car and i dont know how it should perform

[lil_foy]

so how fast should my car be if it hits vtec? cause im kinda new dis is my first car and i dont know how it should perform

Overall speed wont change,

If you have a stock airbox take the top cover off and let the car warm up.

Once its completely warm go in 2nd gear and at roughly 6kish youll hear vtec kicking in (deeper sound).

If you can put your phone on the dash and close all the windows so we dont have air causing sound and record the sound.

[danny_2132]

i dont think i can do it today its raining im on my l's and my mum will know if ive taken da car out cause when she gets back it will be all wett... butt ill try it the next time i take itt outt

[lil_foy]

Make sure the car is warmed up otherwise vtec doesnt work.

[T-onedc2]

so how fast should my car be if it hits vtec? cause im kinda new dis is my first car and i dont know how it should perform
Basically it will feel like it's actually worth revving all the way to redline, don't expect a kick at all, just a smooth transition. However in cold weather it's more noticable.

[danny_2132]

well then ive hit it a few times... it feelss gud lol

[morgs202]

That thermostat must be a teg thing, cause my dc2 did it when I first got it, and I even had the same problem with my old 87 teg. Both times it was apparently the thermostat sticking open

[mugen24]

i just got this question as well on my 99 teg vtir....going to fix it up soon as i coundnt hear anything when the vtec should be kicked in....thats the problem.

[LowCoupe]

Decided to read some of this thread as the guy I just bought my VTiR off said he had the thermostat replaced recently due to it running cold, it sits at about 1/3 or just over which seems like it should be right.

But speaking of the VTEC, on a bog stock VTiR, no exhaust, stock airbox, should the VTEC be audible when it comes on, or not really? I have only owned a VTi Civic before this, so never had the DOHC VTEC before and expected it to be quite a change in barkiness at about 4500rpm.....but doesn't really seem to be any noticeable noise change or power change......should it?

[T-onedc2]

No you won't hear anything on a stock intake, and you should just feel it continue pulling toward redline with out dropping off in a B18C.

[Mikecivic78]

DC2 Vti-R has 2 switchover points, Vtec switchover and dual stage intake manifold switchover.
Correct me if I'm wrong (i got this from a honda brochure) but the VTEC switchover is approx 4400rpm and the manifld switches to a short tract from 5500 onwards.

Ive been shopping around for a dc2 vti-r and when I test drove one the other day, i noticed that it was running cold due to a faulty thermostat. It took it over 20 minutes to reach the halfway temp. mark and i could feel that it was inhibiting the correct operation of the VTEC. This is a common problem with pre-facelift ('93-97) VTI-Rs.

[T-onedc2]

Secondary butterflies open at 5800.
See here, page 2 from Honda brochure:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107712&page=2

[zropts]

hmm yeah well i got a new mugen thermostat and used it for over 6000km... now (recently) its running cool when my engine has already warmed up... like 20% on the reading... what could be the prob? i don't suppose the thermostat has gone on me!?

[doonbar]

im already to do my thermo change tomorrow but... where the air bleed bolt is suppose to be its not... is that normal for 99 vtir? would it be anywhere else?

[Integ97]

can some please tell me roughly how long after the car has been turned on and driving should the engine temp be at 40%...as mine reaches 40% put takes a while to get there or i drive for like 15 mintues and it still sits near low...

[dudeling7]

Does it fluctuate??

I.E. when you sit in traffic it sits at the correct temp but when you start moving then it will move down lower. thats what happened with me and it never went hotter than about 1/3.

with a working thermo it shouldnt take very long to warm up, maybe 5 mins and it should reach operating temp.

[doonbar]

im already to do my thermo change tomorrow but... where the air bleed bolt is suppose to be its not... is that normal for 99 vtir? would it be anywhere else?

anyone?

[T-onedc2]

do you mean the coolant drain tap? There's a tap at the bottom of your radiator but no air bleed.

[doonbar]

do you mean the coolant drain tap? There's a tap at the bottom of your radiator but no air bleed.

nah the air bleed. it just doesnt have one. weird but i did the thermo change anyways.

:thumbsup:

[TT44NG]

hey guys,
i think i have a similar problem with my vtir 94

the radiator is boiling, and the temp goes all the way to H...i had to stop the car to let the whole engine cool down...

and on idle, the temp rises to bout 3/4 to H, and revving at 1.500rpm, just on idle..sometimes at 2.

ive read the previous posts but those problems are either running under normal 40% temp or heating but to not my extent.

[geeang]

hey guys,
i think i have a similar problem with my vtir 94

the radiator is boiling, and the temp goes all the way to H...i had to stop the car to let the whole engine cool down...

and on idle, the temp rises to bout 3/4 to H, and revving at 1.500rpm, just on idle..sometimes at 2.

ive read the previous posts but those problems are either running under normal 40% temp or heating but to not my extent.

How is your coolant level?
I would flush out the coolant and get some new coolant in there, also does your fan come on?

You might have a coolant leak somewhere, if coolant level is fine and your fan doesn't come on then I'd have the fanswitch replaced.
It could also be caused by a thermostat dying/being stuck closed so no coolant will flow through, in which cause you'd need to get the thermostat replaced.

[TT44NG]

How is your coolant level?
I would flush out the coolant and get some new coolant in there, also does your fan come on?

You might have a coolant leak somewhere, if coolant level is fine and your fan doesn't come on then I'd have the fanswitch replaced.
It could also be caused by a thermostat dying/being stuck closed so no coolant will flow through, in which cause you'd need to get the thermostat replaced.


ive refilled the water and its running fine now..fan works fine, gona do a service on it tomorrow, should be fine =]

thanks alot mang :thumbsup:

[TT44NG]

took the car to hannys today, they checkd and said it was the head gasket..
gona cost me 1k to repair.

du ma

[Mikecivic78]

took the car to hannys today, they checkd and said it was the head gasket..
gona cost me 1k to repair.

du ma

Wot a bitch man, maybe shave some mm off the head while ur at it...

[TT44NG]

Wot a bitch man, maybe shave some mm off the head while ur at it...

swapping the head gasket would cost too much, hanny's wasnt specific, i took it few other palces they go 1k no way..
so i took it to my dad's friends one, they're swapping a 2nd b18c in it as we speak, hope she comes home soon..=[

[honda2nissan]

Have you got a cold air intake in it?

[intk20A]

The problem that you have is your thermostat is stuck open....
What usually happens is the thermostat will stay shut until a pre determined temperature of around 93 degrees and then it will open allowing coolant to flow around the system.

when it is stuck open it flows from start up so the coolant takes longer to warm up...

Replace your thermostat and you should be fine....

[slimx]

I reckon this is a problem with newer engines

I got a 1990 model integra, the temp use to be middle all the time.. shoot up straight away.. even at 140k's in winter now.. it was still warm.. the engine.

I recently got a full ENGINE change to a 2001 model and now the temp stays at Cold sometimes when im punching it on the m4 it gauge just conks out, as if i just started the car on a cold morning.. then i slow down at a red light or something all u see..it goes back up to about 1/5 NEVER EVER reaches the middle, always less.. MAX i got it up to and that was on the spot reving, riding my clutch and burning shit.. lol was about.. 2/6

These engines are TOO cold myn is a GSi you guys are all running vtecs i reckon yours should be much warmer than myn.

oh and guys i removed my thermostat, my last one blew my headgasket lol

[intk20A]

That is why you are getting an incorrect reading on your gauge, the thermostat offers restriction in the cooling system, which allows the coolant to soak up heat from your engine, when you remove the thermostat the coolant flows to fast and cant absorb the heat from the engine.....

You can cause alot of damage running your car like this because your gauge wont let you know when the system is to hot......

[ewendc2r]

*slaps head* --- Remember, its fluid not static. As there is continuous flow in the cycle, it doesn't really matter the rate of flow past the engine into the radiator, water is always in contact with the block etc ..

I've heard a few people say this before -- I can't see any logical sense behind it. The main bad as many have stated is running the car at a temp it was not designed to be run at (i.e. due to the expansion / contraction of metals at certain heats and induced tolerances).

[trentd]

They sit low, hondas are good with there water temps.
if it is sitting very low then it could be numerous things such as;
thermostat.
oil to thick.
and too much coolant.

otherwise if its sitting at least the third of the way up then you should be happy. because the furthur you stay away from that 'H' the better

[Mikecivic78]

They sit low, hondas are good with there water temps.
if it is sitting very low then it could be numerous things such as;
thermostat.
oil to thick.
and too much coolant.

otherwise if its sitting at least the third of the way up then you should be happy. because the furthur you stay away from that 'H' the better

Good call. Preferably it should sit between 2/3 and slightly less than 1/2 way.

Wow, i remember when this thread was in it's infancy. This thermo is a common problem for DC2 'tegs, so I'm not surprised its been active for so long.

Props to the DC integra! Its a cult classic!

[Super-DA9]

Ahh man this was really helpful. I just bought my DC2 VTi-R and I was wondering why it took so ridiculously long to warm up on the move. Changed the thermostat and bada-bing! It works properly now! I'm really enjoying driving my first VTEC car! :D

[BONDAVILLE]

Ok you all know that vtec only works when the engine is at normal op temp. Thermostat is most likly coz (it's probly jammed shut) or stuck half way lol

[charliebrown]

Hey guys, would you recommend i change mine? Mine sits to the left of Cold for about 20-30 minutes... then after driving for ages, it'll go about 1/4-1/3 (on a hot day). My family members are saying "yeah dw it's fine, just an old car"... but my fuel efficiency is eating dick and i think something is wrong.

[g3vtir]

Hey guys, would you recommend i change mine? Mine sits to the left of Cold for about 20-30 minutes... then after driving for ages, it'll go about 1/4-1/3 (on a hot day). My family members are saying "yeah dw it's fine, just an old car"... but my fuel efficiency is eating dick and i think something is wrong.

I think you should. That's not normal. It should sit just to the left of half way. 2 things i can think of which are side effects of this are:

1. certain things that require the engine to be at certain temperature will not work, eg VTEC
2. Engine components if not warmed to its optimal temperature may not expand as per normal which could increase wear and tear.

[charliebrown]

I think you should. That's not normal. It should sit just to the left of half way. 2 things i can think of which are side effects of this are:

1. certain things that require the engine to be at certain temperature will not work, eg VTEC
2. Engine components if not warmed to its optimal temperature may not expand as per normal which could increase wear and tear.

I have a GSi, so no VTEC. The main problem is just fuel economy... i'm not even getting 300km from a tank at the moment.

[Bludger]

I have a GSi, so no VTEC. The main problem is just fuel economy... i'm not even getting 300km from a tank at the moment.you pretty much answered your own question.

Lets put your situation into perspective.
You got 2 options.

1 - you leave it.....
You're forever thinking about why you've got a dick for fuel consumption, always a pin prick at the back of your mind digging away.

2 - you change it.......
you've gotten it off your chest and if it fixes your dick consumption problems. Excellent.
If it doesn't then it probably needed to be done anyway sooner or later. its done. move onto the next item in question. (if changing it didn't rectify the problem)

You make up your own mind.

Youve already laid it all out on the talbe.

now grow some balls and make a decision.

[charliebrown]

told mechanic about the temp gauge not going up and shit fuel economy. He said to do two more tanks and record the l/100kms. I got 11.5l/100km on the last tank. Is that shit for stock gsi? Current tanks almost empty and only done 250km

[dbzerk]

I had the same problem with my vti-r running always cool. I pulled out the thermostat only to discover that it was jammed open because the central guide pin was bent. Easy fix and cheap to do.. All should check this if yours always run cool! Ill try to get a pic of it up soon

[charliebrown]

Just refilled yesterday and got 12L/100km, my mechanic said anywhere between 12-14L/100km is acceptable for a car that old. And that replacing the thermostat carries other risks, often not worth it for a little bit better fuel economy.

[androo]

Holy biiitch balls! Charliebrown just change the damn thing. Why is this even a question? Your engine is unable to get warm quick enough (and I bet once you start cruising your temp goes all the way back down) causing your engine to wear out faster than it normally should. It also costs barely anything. It's a bit fiddly to do but WHAT risks? If you do it yourself it'll be less than $50 (assuming you have to buy some el-cheapo tools considering you're so scared of doing anything) and you'll get your money back ASAP (at $1.30/L, you're paying around $4 more per 100km than everyone else).

Also, no offence to your mechanic, but you need a new one...

Not having a go at you (and I am trying to help you) but this is a no brainer. If you were in Sydney I'd change it for you myself. Good luck.................................

[charliebrown]

I think the engine is actually warming up, just the gauge thing is off. I started the engine and popped the hood, and feeling to see if engine was staying cold. After a few minutes, it was quite warm. (but im not sure how warm its actually supposed to be to compare)

Mechanic said he can do it all including parts for $30, but the last integra he changed a thermostat for because it had the same problem, ended up fcking up a while after. Cant recall exactly what he said, but it was something because of the old age of the car, the diameter of the hole where you change the thermo got smaller and so on i cant remember.

I will do the 2 full tanks like he said and record the L/100km, and will see what he says. He acknowledges that it's eating more fuel than it should, but reluctant to change it cos of past experiences with tegs fckin up after changing.

[androo]

I think the engine is actually warming up, just the gauge thing is off. I started the engine and popped the hood, and feeling to see if engine was staying cold. After a few minutes, it was quite warm. (but im not sure how warm its actually supposed to be to compare)

Ok, you can't just feel your rocker cover to tell that the engine is at optimal temperature. Of course it will be warm........................ Just not warm enough...


Mechanic said he can do it all including parts for $30, but the last integra he changed a thermostat for because it had the same problem, ended up fcking up a while after.
Again, get a new mechanic.............. I can't believe he fked up a thermostat change...

Another thing, while OEM Honda thermostats are more expensive, they stay open when they fail (while aftermarket ones stay closed, which will cause your car to overheat once they fail). Also, look at the age of your car - The OEM thermostat has just died, whereas an aftermarket one typically lasts 3-4 years.

If you're scared of your mechanic screwing it up, call around to different Hondas and ask for a quote to get it changed. I'm sure it will be less than $150-200 MAX and you have peace of mind... I know I would...

BTW, if your mechanic can BUY the thermostat and charge you only $30 INCLUDING parts and labour, what do you think the quality of the thermostat + labour will be????????? I hope he's just really nice....

[Bludger]

not only that, but he is scared it'll **** up aftyer changing?

If he was competant, he would have no hesitation and could guarantee it won't **** up.

[charliebrown]

The thermo would be OEM Honda, mechanic's have discounts or some shit. He said might have to get a gasket, but that's only like $5. No charge for labour as he's close and been servicing my family's vehicles for decades. He's a straight forward guy, not after money and trustworthy. And not tryin to have a go at you guys, but he would have much more experience (being a RETIRED mechanic working for 30-40 years) than you, so i find it hard to just ignore what he says as tegs have rolled in at his door a million times and changing thermo has been an issue afterwards for many.

[androo]

................................. Done trying to help you... You're an idiot......... Go... Continue running your car like shit...

Peace out! /

[Shraka]

Charliebrown: 12L/100??! That's HORRIBLE! My VTi-R (1994, 150K) gets 10L/100km or better with quick driving and all suburban. If I do a long trip for half the tank I get about 7.7L/100km.

Also, why did you come in here asking for our help then tell us off when we give it? I'll second what others have said: Your mechanic is a nutcase - he should be quite alarmed that your car is running cold, especially if you ever drive it spiritedly. The fix should be easy, and what other problems could it possible cause? I like the attitude towards maintenance though "Oh my brake pads are worn out, but I'm not gonna fix it because I heard it can cause other problems". Do you REALLY think leaving the engine running cold would cause LESS problems than a fix?

P.S. Honda did mine five years and 70,000kms ago, and it's been absolutely fine ever since. Get it done - it's not expensive. And if it's your gauge, you should get that fixed too. You really wanna know when your car is overheating.

[charliebrown]

Just filled up again. Got 10.1L/100km granny driving in suburban. It's running slightly less 'cold', as in it's moving off to about 1/4 to 1/3 of the gauge after 10-15 minutes. Could it just be that the dealer didn't drive the car for a while or something, and that it needed to do a few runs before it ran properly again? And could you guys tell me if starting the engine to move the car in/out of the driveway uses a lot of petrol? My parents move my car like 10 times a day... not sure if that contributes to the poor economy.

[Bludger]

Just filled up again. Got 10.1L/100km granny driving in suburban. It's running slightly less 'cold', as in it's moving off to about 1/4 to 1/3 of the gauge after 10-15 minutes. Could it just be that the dealer didn't drive the car for a while or something, and that it needed to do a few runs before it ran properly again? And could you guys tell me if starting the engine to move the car in/out of the driveway uses a lot of petrol? My parents move my car like 10 times a day... not sure if that contributes to the poor economy.
You're an idiot.
You can't tell the exact temperature from reading the stock temperature guage.
It's very inaccurate and there as a guide only. 1/4 or 1/3 of the guage doesn't mean shit..
You can't tell if its running "slightly less cold" Stop secongd guessing.

Either go change the thermostat and come back with your results or just leave it and stop asking mundane repetitive questions & wasting our time.

Yes, repeated start stop when cold doesn't help fuel consumption.

[Vvvtec]

Just filled up again. Got 10.1L/100km granny driving in suburban. It's running slightly less 'cold', as in it's moving off to about 1/4 to 1/3 of the gauge after 10-15 minutes. Could it just be that the dealer didn't drive the car for a while or something, and that it needed to do a few runs before it ran properly again? And could you guys tell me if starting the engine to move the car in/out of the driveway uses a lot of petrol? My parents move my car like 10 times a day... not sure if that contributes to the poor economy.

You seem to complain alot about your car. Maybe try not driving for a while, start walking places. Perhaps getting some fresh air will help clear your head, and you'll use less fuel in your car.

Oh, and go to a different mechanic.

[Mikecivic78]

Charlie brown harden the **** up! Change that Thermostat post-haste. Nothing will go wrong.

[EVLGTR]

....start walking places. Perhaps getting some fresh air will help clear your head

LMAO! i like that advice

[Super-DA9]

thermostat is easy as pie to change, and nothing bad can happen from changing it. plus it's not even that expensive, Tridon make aftermarket ones you can pick them up from supercheap. :)

[mrmvc]

Hey,

my b18 gsi has that same problem, even though i've filled it with coolant it still spends most its time on the cold side :S

[Super-DA9]

change thermostat

[dc2_itr]

def change thermostat, tridon part tt328-170, cost about $38 and made a noticable improvement to the way car drives. Only takes bout 30mins, easy job

[Mikecivic78]

Check this DIY. It's a pretty good DIY, but be sure to read wynode's comments also. Even a relatively mechanical noob can do it very easily.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?19092-DIY-Thermostat-Replacement-DC2/page2&highlight=thermostat+DIY

Charlie Brown, mrmvc and everyone else, do this asap as it's a cheap and easy job.

[charliebrown]

Done, fuel economy has not changed but car is warming up fine. Old thermostat was clearly stuck open when inspected. Was not cheap by any means...

[Mikecivic78]

Done, fuel economy has not changed but car is warming up fine. Old thermostat was clearly stuck open when inspected. Was not cheap by any means...

How much did it cost?? Thermostat costs about 40 bucks and labour is no more than 1 hour all up (incl. warming car up and waiting for radiator fan to come on twice).

[charliebrown]

For just the equipment, it was $110 with a discount, normally itd be 135ish (thermo is 80 coolant is 55). It took like 2 hours to do the job and radiator fan never came on after like 45 minutes so we just left it. Had to keep topping up the coolant reservoir tank for a few days. My car didnt have a bleed bolt

[Bludger]

sigh....

[Chantelle]

my 94 vtir always runs cold, have never noticed less powerful vtec, i think its just the car :) ...when i had to change the radiator and bleeding it etc it took forever for it to heat up and the fan to even turn on...mechanic sitting there getting frustrated waiting...i'm assuming it doesnt take that long for other cars! Runs even colder at night with the cold air and sounds 10 x better when vtec kicks in i say.

[Mikecivic78]

my 94 vtir always runs cold, have never noticed less powerful vtec, i think its just the car :) ...when i had to change the radiator and bleeding it etc it took forever for it to heat up and the fan to even turn on...mechanic sitting there getting frustrated waiting...i'm assuming it doesnt take that long for other cars! Runs even colder at night with the cold air and sounds 10 x better when vtec kicks in i say.


Welcome to OH :)

thermostat

replace it

should fix it

[Chantelle]

thanks :) will do

[Super-DA9]

do not rev it up to vtec when it's running cold, chantelle. it isn't good for your engine. infact I didn't think vtec engaged if it wasn't at running temp.

in terms of warming up time i've noticed integras take a while to warm up compared to other normal cars but it shouldn't be cooling while driving, it should take about 5-10 minutes to reach running temp at idle (in medium weather) and should stay there.

thermostat most likely needs changing as it has been stated, change the gasket for another OEM one too.

good luck :thumbsup:

[Chantelle]

do not rev it up to vtec when it's running cold, chantelle. it isn't good for your engine. infact I didn't think vtec engaged if it wasn't at running temp.

in terms of warming up time i've noticed integras take a while to warm up compared to other normal cars but it shouldn't be cooling while driving, it should take about 5-10 minutes to reach running temp at idle (in medium weather) and should stay there.

thermostat most likely needs changing as it has been stated, change the gasket for another OEM one too.

good luck :thumbsup:

Wow, all this time i thought it was normal....have had the car about 6 years lol and its always done that...does take around 10 mins or so to reach running temp...does drop at night though, specially in the cold! thanks :)

[nhawkdc2]

My type r guage stays on cold all the time. ill have to change the thermostat in that case.