Low End Power

[zama]

Just recently upgraded Ed honda with new full exhaust x-force 2 1/4" extractors (4-2-1), hi flow cat and 2 1/4' inch piping cat-back. Still got stock air intake. Has good mid and high end power, but want to know whether altering cold air intake will improve low end power?

Any suggestions?

[henrygiang]

Just recently upgraded Ed honda with new full exhaust x-force 2 1/4" extractors (4-2-1), hi flow cat and 2 1/4' inch piping cat-back. Still got stock air intake. Has good mid and high end power, but want to know whether altering cold air intake will improve low end power?

Any suggestions?

correct me if im wrong but a CAI will benefit higher RMP. i think you are looking for a short ram intake

[tiksie]

Low end power + Honda dont exist..Unless it's a turboed NSX running on low boost with a small turbo that kicks in at 2,500 rpm XD

[trism]

shoulda got a motec system exhaust

thems r l33t

[kayot1k]

correct me if im wrong but a CAI will benefit higher RMP. i think you are looking for a short ram intake

i believe its the other way around.
CAI for low end - mid
SRI for mid - high.

"longer tubing will create more pressure differential from the opening to the TB end and peak volumetric efficiency will occur at an earlier (i.e. lower) rpm"

a very common misconception people make. :eek:

to be honest i wouldnt bother playing around with the intake tubing unless your going to get a complete new tubing with the same diameter and with mandrel bends.

tiksie: i can tell your a str8 newbie saying stupid shiet like that.

[Riced_Civic]

usually powers the same.
its just the responce time u get on how long or short your piping is.

longer piping (CAI) will have a bit of lag due to the air travling more distance, hence u feel the power later.

shorter piping (SRI) will have close to no lag with air travling a shorter distance to the TB, hence u feel the power more earlier.

[teh_mechanic]

dont expect big low end gains no matter what intake you get.
hondas just dont have torque.fact
only way to really get more bottom end is altering gear ratios,final drive ratio or getting a bigger displacement engine.

but yes a short ram intake will give slightly quicker response than a full CAI,but the benefits stop there as the SRI usually take in hot air from the engine bay if you just wack it in there with no cover or air box,therefore actually reducing engine power output

[SeverAMV]

xforce extractors are too big for good gains all around in an ED. you'll want 1 5/8" extractors for best all round performance outta a d15b4 from an ed6, otherwise the flow rate drops too much and you end up losing too much bottom end and top end, and due to the decreased exiting velocity, theres a potential increase for exhaust reversion.

only other thing you can really do to gain some bottom end is give advancing the cam timing a go. in an ED6 dual carb, you can always adjust the idle screw so your car idles a bit higher, so you're in a better (albeit only slightly) part of the rev range so you have access to a bit more torque when you start accelerating.

[cristian]

no one's really cared to ask what motor the guy's running...

majority of the ED's came with d15b motors ... dual carbs... so all the above info would've been pointless...

if u are running a dual carb, i suggest maybe running webbers, or a larger diameter carb, (stock = 36mm) 40mm makes a difference.
also if u can get a hold of a d16a6 cam (from 88-91 CRX Si), this will fit into a d15...
(*edit* SeverAMV - ur a sick c*nt :D)

these will be able to let u get more out of ur new exhaust system...

[trism]

fit a k20. they have good torque

[Riced_Civic]

well he is on a tight budget and i dont think anything 2 extream will be in his price range.

the bigger carbs and bigger cams would be a good idea if we could get an est price on em.

[ricki_kalsi]

It's a Honda... you won't get much low end...

NA's just don't get low end torque.

[Riced_Civic]

yes weve all heard that.

hes new to these thing, he just wants a little more go when he steps on the pedal.

[rawr]

SRI is the way to go. It compliments mid range power where as CAI is for high end

Not much you can do for low end but just launch at 4k i guess lmao

[SeverAMV]

cams and carbs can be fairly expensive, and probably not worth it unless you plan on keeping the car for a while. good cams would be aroundd 200-600 aftermarket, weber carbs can get fairly expensive.

im converting to skracing carbs, and just sourcing all the parts to run the setup safely and legally has set me back around 800 (not too bad i guess, webers will cost twice as much), not including labour.

cams wont give you much of a low end boost tho (not on a non-tec motor anyway), they may actually do more harm to your low end than you'd expect.

if you've got mechanical experience and can tear apart your motor, get a p29 all motor kit from fjdistributors.com. then get your head milled about 1mm to bring the pistons closer to the head for the right combustion. if you use the metal head gasket included in the kit, and mill the head 1mm, compression will jump from factory 8.x:1 to about 11-12:1, which will improve the vacuum generated with each stroke of the motor and improve power and response throughout the rev range.

but then you're hit with the main problem. each of these mods do very little on their own. you have to run them in combination for any real gain. so you'll have to ask yourself, do you really want to do this to your ed?

[Riced_Civic]

yeah with that said hes prob better to save for a b or d swap

[SeverAMV]

actually, swapping to another d or a b will cost you teh same amount as doing the whole build to stage 2, but a well tuned stage 2 d will net you more power than a b swap. personally, i chose the d build because you dont really have to go thru regency for it in sa or get an rwc to say your vehicle complies. swapping to another d is pointless unless you go for a zc twin cam.

plus, converting to a b is messy in an ed, because you have to do carby to efi swap, gearbox swaps, have to add ecu and get it tuned, new engine mounts, etc., and unless you can get all that done for less than 4k, i'd personally choose to do the build i previously mentioned. im running the same build (minus the carb swap until my motor's new parts are completely run in), and im fairly happy with the improvements. my timeslip is similar to my brother's quad throttle fwd despite my lack of a tune and still using factory carbs, so mine was worth it.

in the end, its up to him to decide which route he wants to take.

[ZeForce]

actually, swapping to another d or a b will cost you teh same amount as doing the whole build to stage 2, but a well tuned stage 2 d will net you more power than a b swap. personally, i chose the d build because you dont really have to go thru regency for it in sa or get an rwc to say your vehicle complies. swapping to another d is pointless unless you go for a zc twin cam.

plus, converting to a b is messy in an ed, because you have to do carby to efi swap, gearbox swaps, have to add ecu and get it tuned, new engine mounts, etc., and unless you can get all that done for less than 4k, i'd personally choose to do the build i previously mentioned. im running the same build (minus the carb swap until my motor's new parts are completely run in), and im fairly happy with the improvements. my timeslip is similar to my brother's quad throttle fwd despite my lack of a tune and still using factory carbs, so mine was worth it.

in the end, its up to him to decide which route he wants to take.

What sort of power are you making from ur built D series?

[Riced_Civic]

if he does the B swap it will only be 3k max ive been told but out mechanic.
so that was an option that was open if he decied to keep the car for a longer period.

but i think hell keep the current motor at the moment cos this is a very strong motor still and has less than 130k on it which is amazing for how old it is. so were gust tring to get as much from it as we can atm.

but i understand where ur coming from and we appriciate how every1 has helped us.

[power_of_dreams]

lightweight flywheel?
pulley kit?

[cristian]

if he does the B swap it will only be 3k max ive been told but out mechanic.


if that's including a carb -> efi conversion then i'd go B series...

[Jarkz]

D16A8 / ZC engine has the nicest usable low end torque for a N/A 1.6

[Riced_Civic]

if that's including a carb -> efi conversion then i'd go B series...

yeah, i want him to go B, but he needs to save more.

yeah thats drive in and drive out price which is prity good.

yeah i totally forgot about light fly wheel *duh* lol.

[bennjamin]

if you want to give your car more "low-mid range" - get rid of weight out of its moving parts and static dead weight.
IE reduce rim size , get a light flywheel , aftermarket header , remove interior parts etc. Otherwise buy a commodore v6

[Riced_Civic]

i recont he fly will be what he'll be looking for just to give it a bit more feel.

^^yeah we have taken out his spare tyre

[SeverAMV]

What sort of power are you making from ur built D series?

managed to hit 88fwkw without a tune and with factory carbs in their restrictive state. after i finish running it in, i should be able to hit 100fwkw by advancing the ignition timing about 14 degrees more (yes, that means 34 degrees btdc, but i've been watching some videos of american dyno tuning on d series and this made a monstrous increase), adjusting the amount of fuel going thru the factory carbs, and playing around with the cam timing. aiming for 120fwkw with the skracing carbs. the only thing limiting my setup is i dont feel like pushing it past 7.5krpm, and it will be slightly detuned for daily driving so i'll probably only get about 110-115fwkw. and its not quite like the b16a where you get a massive spike right at the end of the powercurve. its smooth all round~

but if you can get a b16a conversion including the carb to efi conversion for less than 3k, then go for it

@power_of_dreams - lightweight flywheel can cause a loss in bottom end torque, and you'll find it harder to go uphill unless you're making a fair bit of power.

[cristian]

@power_of_dreams - lightweight flywheel can cause a loss in bottom end torque, and you'll find it harder to go uphill unless you're making a fair bit of power.

X2 a mate did the same mistake in his EG2...he was used to his old SSS torque and was already hating the difference when he got the b16...the lightened flywheel made it worse...

[TheSaint]

i put a Fujita CAI system on my DC2 and it gave me a nice low end gain as opposed to the SRI i had on there before, it was the best upgrade i ever did on my car =)

light weight flywheel and a desent clutch will help down low as well, only other thing u can try is getting a new intake manifold like skunk2 etc... probly get more mid - high gains though

its good that u have used 4-2-1 instead of 4-1... u dont get much bottom end with 4-1

flashing the ECU with the new exhaust and intake will help ALOT and getting a tune with a vafc2 or a safc will help alot too =)

good luck