Users with trading signatures

[grumpy rooster]

What's with the ever increasing amount of users that have Trader type signatures with items for sale on a permanent basis? These users have not paid for Trader status yet use every post they make as a form of trader account with signatures that list items for sale in their business.

Us traders pay a price to be able to sell items in our trader sections ONLY and get spoken to for making posts that could be potentially be seen as selling an item, yet a normal user can do it all he likes even though he is effectively trading on the site. The only difference is they haven't paid to be a trader and don't have their own section.

Its really annoying the crap out of me and other traders. Please fix it.

[dc2dc2dc2]

i tend to agree with u man.
but i don't see it changing
as some mods
have it in their sigs
again it has been argued
'we are not a selling based website'
so why do we let people put it in their sigs
and then they can just spam like crazy
and their sig gets more exposure to users than a trader may get.
:)

[Shimian]

i kinda agree in a way. I think its ok to link to your PARTS FOR SALE thread, but not use it as advertising space. I can see why Traders would be peed off.

[bennjamin]

Link us to which "Traders" are pissing you off and we can edit or remove them. IF they are genuinely taking the $$$ out of the local market (IE kids that have hookups in HK that undercut traders) then tell Us and we can do something about it. Otherwise there is little point to this thread

[grumpy rooster]

Your sig is a good example. Its an advertisement every time you post. And its big. There are others that are not hard to work out.

I can see that this will go nowhere because the mods are doing it themselves. Say :wave: to a number of traders when renewal comes up. :)

[Shimian]

im not suggesting any traders here are peed off. I mean, they might be and not voicing it. Im saying from my point of view, if i was a trader, i would be. Dunno how much they pay thou. I mean, i support advertising in sigs as its all free and does a good job, but i also have a soft spot for traders (if any here) or as a trader in general.

[wynode]

Just to clarify, Traders are allowed to reply to other threads with prices provided it is kept to a reasonable amount. They just cannot create new threads in forums other than their trader forum in an attempt to sell/advertise products and/or services.

Got any links to users who are selling on a commercial basis via their signature? Feel free to PM me if you wish.

If it is a serious issue and can be backed up....I will look into changing our stance on signatures (if there is sufficient cause to do so).

[bennjamin]

My sig is not spammed right and centre for coverage. So you better find a decent example for all of us to work on. Regardless of mod or not.

From your complaint , you refer to newcomers selling parts cheapie from overseas.
Give us examples as no other "Traders" have ever complained of such an issue.

[dc2dc2dc2]

why are rules on newcomers so hard about trying to sell
and you guys are giving them lectures about
go to carsales or trading post if u wanna sell ur shit
why can't this apply to sigs?
in the end its the same thing.
this is not a forum for selling things
its not a priority of the website
but more so to provide knowledge + bit of fun.

[bennjamin]

Tai Traders pay Wynode $XX amount and expect coverage for that cost.

Since there are newcomers coming on and advertising the same goods for cheaper and paying no fee , Paying traders expect better rules.

[grumpy rooster]

My sig is not spammed right and centre for coverage. So you better find a decent example for all of us to work on. Regardless of mod or not.

From your complaint , you refer to newcomers selling parts cheapie from overseas.
Give us examples as no other "Traders" have ever complained of such an issue.


Where have I said it applies to newcomers? Because it doesn't. I'm talking in general people using their sigs to sell stuff/services on a constant basis, like yours. Traders don't only sell parts you know. Some offer services such as servicing etc. I will PM wynode with a few other examples.

And yes their are other traders annoyed about it. I'm just the one that has spoken out about it.

[SiReal]

There are also several regular members who sell parts as though they are traders. However they go through the 'Parts For Sale' section.

They haven't gone unnoticed.

[Q_ball]

Imo, we should scrap all sig adverts for services/parts etc...
The ONLY exception being a direct link to their FS thread on the site.

Keep it clean.

[krogoth]

i can def see where grumpy is coming from, and he has more than a right to complain

personally, i dont buy much from here, nor do i sell, so i have no idea how much sig sellers affect real traders

i dont know if its anything significant

if its a taking away proper traders business, then it definetley needs to be looked at

a blanket ban may be a little overkill, as it can supress members who actually offer their services/help more for other ppls benefits than for profit, but then if som1 really needs help, PM can be used

but yeh, maybe traders rights need a little more protection....

[panda[cRx]]

grumpy has a point but i dont see it being an big issue at this stage. i think it'd best to control it on a case by case basis atm

[beeza]

Haha,Panda at your sig.That's mad funny!!! :)

[grumpy rooster]

Ok. Everyone pay their $440 for a trader account and there won't be a problem. :)

[beeza]

May be the only way :)

[Benson]

not everyone is a business or has a ABN.

[Mr_will]

not everyone is a business or has a ABN.

given that you only have to make over $50 000 per year in sales to be required to register for gst, and thus have an ABN, it think there are certain people on here that should be thinking very carefully about that.

considering engines and engine packages, cough, are a few thousand a piece, you'd only need to be selling 20-30 a year to be over this threshold.

furthermore, just because you dont have 'a business' or 'an ABN' doesnt mean you shouldnt have to pay the traders fee.

IMO if you sell anything other than occasional personal stuff thats come from YOUR car because you dont need/want it, or upgrading etc then you are a trader.

Specifically in your case, if I was paying $440 a year, and I saw how regularly you have stuff for sale in your sig, I would be annoyed.

[krogoth]

^lol

interesting observation

[Mr_will]

^lol

interesting observation

which one? :)

[wynode]

given that you only have to make over $50 000 per year in sales to be required to register for gst, and thus have an ABN, it think there are certain people on here that should be thinking very carefully about that.

considering engines and engine packages, cough, are a few thousand a piece, you'd only need to be selling 20-30 a year to be over this threshold.

furthermore, just because you dont have 'a business' or 'an ABN' doesnt mean you shouldnt have to pay the traders fee.

IMO if you sell anything other than occasional personal stuff thats come from YOUR car because you dont need/want it, or upgrading etc then you are a trader.

Specifically in your case, if I was paying $440 a year, and I saw how regularly you have stuff for sale in your sig, I would be annoyed.

Agreed. I'm in contact with grumpy rooster RE this and will obviously look after the interest of the traders who keep this site going.

On another note........just to clarify, you only have to be registered for GST if you're making over 50K. But there's nothing stoping you from getting an ABN even if you're not registered for GST.

But yes, the for sale forum is only for our surplus items. If you can order any product in.....then you are a commercial trader.

[Mr_will]

Agreed. I'm in contact with grumpy rooster RE this and will obviously look after the interest of the traders who keep this site going.

On another note........just to clarify, you only have to be registered for GST if you're making over 50K. But there's nothing stoping you from getting an ABN even if you're not registered for GST.

But yes, the for sale forum is only for our surplus items. If you can order any product in.....then you are a commercial trader.

Sorry I guess I wasnt that clear on the GST thing - I was just extrapolating, based on the number of items I see that member selling, that based on the value of engine packages, he should probably be registered for GST, and thus also have an ABN. But I completely agree youre correct - you dont NEED to be registered for GST to have an ABN.

I think you also raised a good point - the traders contribute a significant amount (I assume) of money to the forum, which keeps it free for everyone else.

Why should we be supporting those who contribute nothing for their sales (ie those who sell regularly in sigs) over those who pay for the right to sell?

[dsp26]

i can def see where grumpy is coming from, and he has more than a right to complain

personally, i dont buy much from here, nor do i sell, so i have no idea how much sig sellers affect real traders

i dont know if its anything significant

if its a taking away proper traders business, then it definetley needs to be looked at

a blanket ban may be a little overkill, as it can supress members who actually offer their services/help more for other ppls benefits than for profit, but then if som1 really needs help, PM can be used

but yeh, maybe traders rights need a little more protection....

i agree...

other forums have adopted the rule of not selling by any means other than FS section + donation membership....
my statement in another thread stands the Honda community is the most peasant of the lot... i reckon adopt the above and members should pay if they want access to technical sections + fs.. heck even $5??? how many bloody members are here....

any assistance or 'hook-ups' offered to the OP of a thread wasn't really allowed unless everyone else could share the benefit.

we used to have organised days where we'd talk and goto a spot and work on certain aspects of cars... days were sort of subject/topic days...

but.. those were the real 'enthusiast' communities....

[Shimian]

suggestion: maybe charge a lower rate for having an ad in the signature other than the FS thread? And have a template for the sig (size, font, how many lines etc)??
But then again, its gonna turn into a market fest.
Maybe ADs in sig should only be related to honda parts and services?

[Hipowerracing]

im with grumpy on this.. it is definately not fair for us traders... there is a part for sale section on this site thats where all the secondhand and personal stuff should be sold at..

in this site we got backyard mechanics selling conversions, Parts brand new, second hand.. name it i can find it for you...

so why should us the traders pay for advertisement.. ??

and we dont post that often or as active as some of users on this site.. so it definately not fair for us..

Wyn im sure you are pretty aware of this problem.. and we as traders hope you can do something about it.. SIGNATURES ARE SIGNATURES not BILL BOARDS TO SELL YOU STUFFZ...

thats my 2 cents worth...

[Hipowerracing]

Maybe ADs in sig should only be related to honda parts and services?

MAYBE i should stop paying trader fees and just put ADs and services in my signature :)

[dsp26]

MAYBE i should stop paying trader fees and just put ADs and services in my signature :)

why not? and pay some high school kid to compile you a php bot so you automatically spam the spam thread for maximum exposure? :p for $440 i'm sure he'd make it bullet proof and you get a 5 course dinner with it and a shoe shine too lol

[Shimian]

MAYBE i should stop paying trader fees and just put ADs and services in my signature :)

:D Well i mean for a price as well. You dont get the same exposure (traders section VS signature). But if an AD is used in sig, must be Honda related, for a fee and with posting guidelines.
my 2 ¢

[ACTI0NMAN-1]

I'd have to agree that i notice signature advertising more than looking into the traders section.

[Hipowerracing]

i think for genuine HOME job garages with backyard parts they really want to sell they should put it in the FOR SALE section...

or pay $440 to be a trader.. in my book if you sell something you are a trader.. doesnt mean if you dont have a shop you are not a trader..

look at edward R on Ozhonda for an example.. he trades from his home but he still pays for a trader space on ozhonda.. i think thats fair...

on other websites if you were to trade on your signature you will be ban/kick/warned.. but on ozhonda it's really becoming a "market place"

there are definately some people here on ozhonda selling B20s, Conversions, JDM fronts, their EX-Girlfirends numbers etc on their signature and doing it so often that you know it can't be their personal items...

the way i see it if you are selling something put it in For Sale section. if not pay for a trader spot..

so i hope the MODs can be fair or i think us Traders will soon leave or stop paying for trader Fee.. :(

HOWEVER ... i think some signatures are okay example "DD tuned", "CLUB BEL GARAGE", "AK-MOTORWORKS" example are okay as it helps people to know what has been done to their car to a certain extend...and the above are what i claim as signatures..

BUT COME ON.. THINGS LIKE HONDATA AVAILABLE... B18CR JDM HALF CUT SWAPS FOR SALE... etc.. this should not be allowed...

[happy]

My thought : Ozhonda is hardest forum in the world to sell at For sale section.
Most of other forum only required some certain amount of posting and you can start selling at for sale section.
Some forum freely let you selling (Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, etc).
Ozhonda only allowed "member" only, but to become a member need a point which depend on a quality posting and it's very subjective from person to person.

Signatured also very strict in Ozhonda.
Other forum allowed to put some pictures and not restricted people to do some ads.

Group buys and Mass order also has been eliminated in Ozhonda.

Other ozbrother's forum much more flexible than Ozhonda (Ozmazda / Ozmazdaclub).

Just my 2cents.

[krogoth]

thank goodness no pix are allowed in sigs

that would piss me off, lol

[Benson]

My thought : Ozhonda is hardest forum in the world to sell at For sale section.
Most of other forum only required some certain amount of posting and you can start selling at for sale section.
Some forum freely let you selling (Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, etc).
Ozhonda only allowed "member" only, but to become a member need a point which depend on a quality posting and it's very subjective from person to person.

Signatured also very strict in Ozhonda.
Other forum allowed to put some pictures and not restricted people to do some ads.

Group buys and Mass order also has been eliminated in Ozhonda.

Other ozbrother's forum much more flexible than Ozhonda (Ozmazda / Ozmazdaclub).

Just my 2cents.

:thumbsup:

[fatboyz39]

ill be a trader so as long i don't need a ABN... i have emailed wynode about the traders account but never gotten around getting a ABN. So i tried LOL...

[grumpy rooster]

And every other forum I am on doesn't require traders to pay for the privilege. I'm not saying we shouldn't, just saying that if we do have to pay we should get some exclusivity for it.

What Hipower said is true though. If something doesn't get done about it when it comes to renewal time a number of traders will fall back to advertising via sigs. This I know for a fact.

[Benson]

If something doesn't get done about it when it comes to renewal time a number of traders will fall back to advertising via sigs. This I know for a fact.

Sigs are the way to go :D

[bennjamin]

Grumpy and others ( traders) - you have the ability for "coverage" outside your domain by simply posting and helping out. It really does work. Its called rapport and you can make in with the convos and tech discussions etc. Not just sit in your trader corner waiting for people to come to you.

But , for 9 times out of 10 when a person THINKS of a part they want , chances are they will head to the TRADERS section first and browse around. I know myself and alot of others rec. the traders section ( when people post in the WTB etc)

[Shimian]

i think if things are left as they are, sigs should have a template to make things fairer

[fatboyz39]

Grumpy and others ( traders) - you have the ability for "coverage" outside your domain by simply posting and helping out. It really does work. Its called rapport and you can make in with the convos and tech discussions etc. Not just sit in your trader corner waiting for people to come to you.



The only trader i see do this is TODA_AU. Big up for toda:thumbsup:

[bennjamin]

Yes TODA does good by trying to help out. Come on others Get out there and help out if ya can :)

[wynode]

im with grumpy on this.. it is definately not fair for us traders... there is a part for sale section on this site thats where all the secondhand and personal stuff should be sold at..

in this site we got backyard mechanics selling conversions, Parts brand new, second hand.. name it i can find it for you...

so why should us the traders pay for advertisement.. ??

Wyn im sure you are pretty aware of this problem.. and we as traders hope you can do something about it.. SIGNATURES ARE SIGNATURES not BILL BOARDS TO SELL YOU STUFFZ...

thats my 2 cents worth...

Paying to be a trader gives you an exclusive right to sell via the forums. No other commercial selling is allowed. I have to pay for hosting such a big site and while it used to come out of my pocket back in the good old days....it's no longer possible and if I had to......I would have shut the site down along time ago.

That said.......a lot of people are jumping on the bandwagon. I've received grumpyrooster's PM and as I told him.....I am looking into it. In the process of sending out an email to all the traders to get their opinions. After all it is the traders that help keep this site going, financially.


My thought : Ozhonda is hardest forum in the world to sell at For sale section.
Most of other forum only required some certain amount of posting and you can start selling at for sale section.
Some forum freely let you selling (Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, etc).
Ozhonda only allowed "member" only, but to become a member need a point which depend on a quality posting and it's very subjective from person to person.

Signatured also very strict in Ozhonda.
Other forum allowed to put some pictures and not restricted people to do some ads.

Group buys and Mass order also has been eliminated in Ozhonda.

Other ozbrother's forum much more flexible than Ozhonda (Ozmazda / Ozmazdaclub).

Just my 2cents.

I'm not going to get into this again but we have the rules we do for a reason (search the site discussion forum).



ill be a trader so as long i don't need a ABN... i have emailed wynode about the traders account but never gotten around getting a ABN. So i tried LOL...

ABN is a requirement purely to seperate the backyard traders from the real businesses and to avoid hassles with users getting ripped off. Getting an ABN is free and pretty easy.

Anyways........before this gets out of hand I'm locking the thread and waiting for the traders to reply to my email. Will post back here with the outcome. Obviously I'm going to look after the best interest of the traders (as I have in the past) :)

[Hipowerracing]

thanks wyn.. good to see you are on the traders side..

[wynode]

Quick update for anyone subscribed to this thread.

See here for more information:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88026

I will be emailing the traders with this information.