Alignment Problems

[MULTIV]

I have a 2006 Civic Sport Auto, Had the usual gremlims, rattles groans ect but recently i have had alignment problems, the car steers straight but the steering wheel is off centre in both directions. I have had 3 wheel alignments by Bob jane, and nothing can be done. I have not hit any curbs ect, i have taken to honda and they say it is normal ( as usual with the rattles and plastic miss alignment) what could be causing this or does anyone have this problem or know a fix.

The car feel disconected with the road, any thought anyone, please help it is making me insane

[aaronng]

What tyre pressure are you using?
Having the car steer straight but the steering wheel off centre in BOTH directions and feeling disconnected? All I can think of is poor steering response from excessive toe in.

[JohnL]

Multiv,
Can you post your alignment numbers, i.e. everything written on the alignmnet print out.

[MULTIV]

ok, tyre pressure 34psi, 2006 civic sport but with the 07/08 civic sport rims

REAR CAMBER
L 1 47 degree
R 1 56 degree
Individual toe
L +1.2mm
R +1.0mm
Total toe +2.2mm

FRONT CAMBER
L -0 .31"'
R + 0.13

Individual toes
both left and right +0.00mm

SETBACK +0 .10

[JohnL]

First up, I tend to think your tyre pressure is on the low side, but not low enough to actually cause problems. I'd try incrementally increasing pressure a few psi at a time to see what affects this had, it ought to increase streering response up to a point.

The front camber is a bit strange in that (other than being significantly different) you have neg camber on one side but pos on the other. This is definitely wrong, it would be usual to have neg camber on both sides, perhaps something is bent? I also wonder if there may be worn bushes or joints in the front suspension?

You have 0.42° difference in front camber (as measured), and this is likely to be enough to at least cause a steering pull (in theory, a pull to the right toward the side with least neg camber), but it could be that if this camber inequality is due to bush and / or joint wear that the camber is dynamically unstable, in which case the front toe would also be dynamically unstable. If this is the case then the car will feel quite strange to drive with both camber and toe constantly changing.

I tend to think your rear neg camber is too great relative to your front camber, which in turn is definitely 'wrong' on the right front (shouldn't be positive), and not enough neg on the left front (it's OK, but personally I'd ideally increase it a bit if possible, say to -1° to -1.5°). Front neg camber ought to be a bit more than rear neg camber. I'd also want a bit less rear toe, more like zero.

I also wonder what your caster angles are. If caster is only slight then the steering will tend to be overly 'light', lacking in self-centering affect, lacking in 'on-centre' feel, lacking in straight line stability, and possibly lacking in turn-in response.

[aaronng]

The newer Hondas come stock with 0º camber up front and -1º camber at each rear corner. The Euro is like that too. I guess they want the car to feel more dead when the steering is near center?

[JohnL]

The newer Hondas come stock with 0º camber up front and -1º camber at each rear corner. The Euro is like that too. I guess they want the car to feel more dead when the steering is near center?

It's because of the Corvair and Ralph Nader. I think greater rear camber is most probably one of a number of things intended to induce a strong understeering tendency. Look at Commodore's (among other cars), they also have a lot of neg camber on the rear relative to the front.

Car manufacturer's don't like to sell neutral handling cars because most drivers are not competent to deal with oversteer when it occurs. Make it understeer and oversteer is farther away and the car is safer for the average driver. Besides, most drivers are so used to strong understeer that a neutral handling car might be a bit disconcerting for them...