Oil Blow Back into my Turbo..........

[Lukezen27]

Hey Guys

There's a small amount of oil that's blown back into my intake and turbo.

How do I stop this?

Hannys said there's trick by letting the PCV valve breath but as they don't do turbo's I'm not sure..

Thanks

Luke

[beeza]

An oil catch can would be the go wouldn't it? I've got one in my N/A car,not 100% on Turbo's though...A pice best descibes how to do it.Want one Luke?

[Lukezen27]

An oil catch can would be the go wouldn't it? I've got one in my N/A car,not 100% on Turbo's though...A pice best descibes how to do it.Want one Luke?

At what point do you add a the catch can?

between Intake piping and the rocker cover?

I thought that's where for but Hannys said no but they must be wrong yeah?

You selling one bro?

[beeza]

I cleaned my TB and IM and saw all the crap in there and decided to put one in.Dosen't make a difference on my not powerful engine but on more powerful engines I would imagine it would keep a lot of crap out of there.
I was selling mine but I put it back in.I bought it at autobarn $60.
It's the most confusing thing about a car is the PCV valve...
In the pic U can see from the catch can a line goes to the IM and the other to the PCV valve which is at the end of that hose (running through the hole in the IM.
Hope that's clear.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l287/beeza2/DSCF1297.jpg

[JasonGilholme]

Hanny's is correct. It doesn't go between the intake arm and rocker cover.

It goes between the PCV Valve and the Intake Manifold. Theres plenty of threads discussion the position of it.

As for oil in your intake/turbo have you looking into how much oil you are actually sending to your turbo. You might have too much going in and you could be over oiling it. This will cause oil to push past the seals.

I'd replace the PCV Valve, install a catch can and clean your intake piping and see how you go.

If you still get oil build up/burning then you might need to look at your oil lines to your turbo (could be too big / could need a restrictor). Or, worst case scenario, you might need to look at the seals in your turbo.

[Lukezen27]

Hanny's is correct. It doesn't go between the intake arm and rocker cover.

It goes between the PCV Valve and the Intake Manifold. Theres plenty of threads discussion the position of it.

As for oil in your intake/turbo have you looking into how much oil you are actually sending to your turbo. You might have too much going in and you could be over oiling it. This will cause oil to push past the seals.

I'd replace the PCV Valve, install a catch can and clean your intake piping and see how you go.

If you still get oil build up/burning then you might need to look at your oil lines to your turbo (could be too big / could need a restrictor). Or, worst case scenario, you might need to look at the seals in your turbo.

Hey JasonGilholme

I can't see how the PCV or a catch can will do anything as the intake/turbo on a boosted setup is no where near the TB?

Anyway the oil lines are the stock ones that come with the GReddy kit and should all be matched for this turbo I'd think..

It can only be oil pushed back throw the rocker cover hose to intake...

Can't I add a filter or something between that hose?


I cleaned my TB and IM and saw all the crap in there and decided to put one in.Dosen't make a difference on my not powerful engine but on more powerful engines I would imagine it would keep a lot of crap out of there.
I was selling mine but I put it back in.I bought it at autobarn $60.
It's the most confusing thing about a car is the PCV valve...
In the pic U can see from the catch can a line goes to the IM and the other to the PCV valve which is at the end of that hose (running through the hole in the IM.
Hope that's clear.


http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l287/beeza2/DSCF1297.jpg

What's the little filter doing in the rocker cover hose point?

[JasonGilholme]

The air doesn't go backwards towards the intake arm. It goes into the engine from the intake

If you think that the oil is coming from there then you could block up the hole in your intake and put a breather on the valve cover instead. Its probably better not pushing pressured air through the crankcase. If you put a breather on there it will keep it at ambient pressure.

Are you getting oil on the turbo side of your intercooler too?? If you're getting it there then its probably coming from your turbo.

[Lukezen27]

The air doesn't go backwards towards the intake arm. It goes into the engine from the intake

If you think that the oil is coming from there then you could block up the hole in your intake and put a breather on the valve cover instead. Its probably better not pushing pressured air through the crankcase. If you put a breather on there it will keep it at ambient pressure.

Are you getting oil on the turbo side of your intercooler too?? If you're getting it there then its probably coming from your turbo.

Not that I know of but its hard to check.. its not much oil so I doubt it...

You ya don't need the intake to rocker cover hose connected then and just add a breather works fine?

How did you block the intake piping hole?

Turbo's done like only 10,000 kms max and was brand new

[beeza]

It's an old pic...I've since removed the small air filter and put the hose back from the valve cover to the intake arm because I was told by 'Transzex/bone' off d-series (you know who I mean Luke) to 're-connect the hose if you want your engine to last' and he knows his stuff alright.

[Lukezen27]

It's an old pic...I've since removed the small air filter and put the hose back from the valve cover to the intake arm because I was told by 'Transzex/bone' off d-series (you know who I mean Luke) to 're-connect the hose if you want your engine to last' and he knows his stuff alright.

Not sure who you mean but what's the reason behind that?

[beeza]

I'm not sure of the science behind his reasoning but if there's one thing that guy knows it's Honda's :)

It must have to do with pressure.

[Lukezen27]

I'm not sure of the science behind his reasoning but if there's one thing that guy knows it's Honda's :)

It must have to do with pressure.

Is he talking about NA or BOOST?

Pete from Hannys said there's a trick to equalizing the pressure to stop this happening........

[beeza]

Na...

[[ricer]]

can you post a pic of ur engine bay luke?

[Lukezen27]

;1633537']can you post a pic of ur engine bay luke?

Sure
http://www.doubledynasystems.com/Car/new_motor_bay.jpg

[[ricer]]

Sure
http://www.doubledynasystems.com/Car/new_motor_bay.jpg

mine had the same issue
unplug the line from ur valve cover to where the intake is... put a breather at the end of the hose and block off ur intake
clean it all up and see if your getting any oil then

there was no actual oil in the hose but i was told the vapors would be going thru and causing oil there overtime...

[bennjamin]

guys on this engine in particular , the PCV inlet is the pipe from the intake arm to the head. This pipe is needed. The issue Luke speaks of , is that there is excess blowby back into the intake arm from the upper head , and its catching thru the joints of the intake arm. Removing this from the intake charge could be beneficial for his turboed setup. But the question is how ?

Luke id still start with replacing your PCV with a brand new unit. Regardless of what Hannys said you have to replace it ever 40,000k. Your car is due 3 times over ehehe.

[Lukezen27]

;1633646']mine had the same issue
unplug the line from ur valve cover to where the intake is... put a breather at the end of the hose and block off ur intake
clean it all up and see if your getting any oil then

there was no actual oil in the hose but i was told the vapors would be going thru and causing oil there overtime...


Cool but beeza (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=11606) was told its bad for your motor...

[bennjamin]

Cool but beeza (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=11606) was told its bad for your motor...

it is bad and illegal too.

[Lukezen27]

it is bad and illegal too.

IC DOH!!

Well I'm not doing that as I only roll legal

Its so hard getting Hannys to replace something they don't believe needs changing... lol

[bennjamin]

dude just go to Honda , pay the $35 and pull it out urself. 5 minute job. Then , its done and you can get onto the next issue :)

[Lukezen27]

dude just go to Honda , pay the $35 and pull it out urself. 5 minute job. Then , its done and you can get onto the next issue :)

I'll do it Ban but Pete assures me it won't help

[[ricer]]

Cool but beeza (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=11606) was told its bad for your motor...

why is it bad for the motor?
its just a breather... i dont see how it can be any different putting a breather at the end of that hose rather then having it in the intake pipe which has a pod filter at the end of it anyway

[DLO01]

Hey Guys

There's a small amount of oil that's blown back into my intake and turbo.

How do I stop this?

Hannys said there's trick by letting the PCV valve breath but as they don't do turbo's I'm not sure..

Thanks

Luke

So do you mean the intake going to the turbo?

From you photos your rocker breather is connected to the intake. This is fine. Usually air enters the engine via the rocker cover, but you can get flow the other way. And you can get oil in your intake. How is the rest of the PCV system run? Being a boosted setup the PCV valve may have been removed and this will promote more flow to your intake. You need to find out how the rest of the PCV sytem is setup.

[Lukezen27]

So do you mean the intake going to the turbo?

From you photos your rocker breather is connected to the intake. This is fine. Usually air enters the engine via the rocker cover, but you can get flow the other way. And you can get oil in your intake. How is the rest of the PCV system run? Being a boosted setup the PCV valve may have been removed and this will promote more flow to your intake. You need to find out how the rest of the PCV sytem is setup.

PCV syytem is setup stock..

Yup I need to stop the air going backwards.. how?

[bennjamin]

From you photos your rocker breather is connected to the intake. This is fine. Usually air enters the engine via the rocker cover, but you can get flow the other way

Not 100% correct. The tube going from the intake arm to the head is a "intake" for the PCV system. This means its generally one-way. So if everything is fine there should be no oil in the intake arm.
Luke needs to replace his PCV with either a new PCV , or look at a upgraded system that works to keep most oil vapour out of the intake manifold.

PS DL001 , Luke's PCV system is run the same as a stock car. This maybe the key to why he is getting blowback into the intake arm

[[ricer]]

where is the oil in the pipes?
between throttle body and intercooler?
intercooler and turbo?
or pod filter and turbo?

[DLO01]

Ok, so how is the system run on this motor?

Confirm where the oil is? Intercooler piping or the turbo intake?

I only saw the hose thats running from the rocker cover to near the turbo.

But noticed now theres a tube from the intake arm to the head?

Yep, agree, tube from intake arm to head goes in the motor and then the one from the rocker cover goes out to near the filter? Confirm?

Wheres the valve?

At this stage all I can see is boost in the intercooler piping entering the tube to the head. Thats not good. :confused:

[Lukezen27]

;1633788']where is the oil in the pipes?
between throttle body and intercooler?
intercooler and turbo?
or pod filter and turbo?

pod filter and turbo


Ok, so how is the system run on this motor?

Confirm where the oil is? Intercooler piping or the turbo intake?

I only saw the hose thats running from the rocker cover to near the turbo.

But noticed now theres a tube from the intake arm to the head?

Yep, agree, tube from intake arm to head goes in the motor and then the one from the rocker cover goes out to near the filter? Confirm?

Wheres the valve?

At this stage all I can see is boost in the intercooler piping entering the tube to the head. Thats not good.

Na its setup correctly as per GReddy's setup guidelines

[[ricer]]

pod filter and turbo





well then its exactly what i told you
happen to my old D series turbo too

[Lukezen27]

;1633876']well then its exactly what i told you
happen to my old D series turbo too

But if its illegal how can I fix this?

[[ricer]]

just run the hose out of site and attached a breather to it... thats what i did

or put a breather at the end of the hose and put it next to ur pod filter and build one box to enclose it all

[aaronng]

At this stage all I can see is boost in the intercooler piping entering the tube to the head. Thats not good. :confused:
Even if this happens, it means air flows from the intercooler piping into the valve cover and not the other way around when under boost because the pressure in the piping is above the pressure of the valve cover.

[Lukezen27]

;1633913']just run the hose out of site and attached a breather to it... thats what i did

or put a breather at the end of the hose and put it next to ur pod filter and build one box to enclose it all

Cool

So where do you get this little breather filters from anyway?

SuperCheap?

[beeza]

Autobarn have em' :)

[DLO01]

Even if this happens, it means air flows from the intercooler piping into the head and not the other way around when under boost because the pressure in the piping is above the pressure of the head.

And would this not then push air through the engine and out from rocker cover to intake to turbo? This will then explain his oil in the intake to turbo. Sorry don't know how the system works on these motors.

[aaronng]

And would this not then push air through the engine and out from rocker cover to intake to turbo? This will then explain his oil in the intake to turbo. Sorry don't know how the system works on these motors.
Nope, the air goes into the crankcase, out through the PCV valve and into the intake manifold (which is after the turbo). The rocker cover is the inlet and the PCV valve is the outlet.

[JasonGilholme]

is there a mix up between the head and the valve cover here???

on my engine PCV air enteres via the valve cover, not the head...

[fatboyz39]

vent it all to a catch can SIMPLE....but question is, why are you getting so much blow by after a rebuilt motor? Piston rings not sealing properly?

[aaronng]

is there a mix up between the head and the valve cover here???

on my engine PCV air enteres via the valve cover, not the head...
I made a typo. I meant valve cover, not head.

[DLO01]

Nope, the air goes into the crankcase, out through the PCV valve and into the intake manifold (which is after the turbo). The rocker cover is the inlet and the PCV valve is the outlet.

So whats the one going to the intake arm (before TB) in the photo?

[Lukezen27]

vent it all to a catch can SIMPLE....but question is, why are you getting so much blow by after a rebuilt motor? Piston rings not sealing properly?

Hey Jimmy

Oh might have been there since my HG blow?

Never checked beforehand so I'll clean it out and see if it doesn't come back!!

[beeza]

It's the most confusing thing about a car is the PCV valve...

hehehe,I needed to put system on the end of that but how true is it :zip:

[Limbo]

Luke look at the PCV on this site. It tells you how to plumb it for a turbo setup.

http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html#PCV

[Weq]

Ok im going to try and help you, explain the situation.

You are getting blowby. Excesive blow-by is bad and is caused by your ringlands going crack. What u have described sounds pretty normal, espically for a car that was NA. The PVC breather on the valve cover is a two way valve. Ive see some shops put a one way valve here, this is incorrect.

The function of this outlet is to help evacuate any pressure that builds up in the motor. If u put ur hand over the valve, u will feel it genlty push out air at idle and under more pressure once load is applied to the engine. Once again, all normal. Plumbing hte valve into the intake under a negitive pressure will allow the motor to pull out the gas, and keep it healthy. Irregular situations will result in smoke being puffed out or excessive oil splatter being expelled. it is the natur eof the beast that oil/fuel vapour will be mixed in with this air, which can build up in the intake system if. Usually the engine burns this off, or it clogs up the throttle body and intake manifold.

What you can do;
You have a turbo setup, so u will get a little more blowby then most. What u are experiencing is normal. The oil buildup wont really do all that much other then cause a degrade in performance over the long term. You options are;

1. Catch can. Plumb a catch can in between the inlet and rocker cover. Note that venting this gas in anyway is illegal. Catch cans come in inline configurations with and without breathers, and with and without baffles. If u have a breather less catch can, you want to have a baffle or stuff it with metal wool. this will help catch any oil vapour that is in the air, and stop it from building up in the intake. This is also the ideal solution, as it allows the engine suck oil vapour out of the case, which aids in crank case pressure buildup, but does not contaminate the intake tract because it is caught in the can.

2. Run a breather filter. This is illegal. But it works. Its an acceptable solution for a midly modified motor at lower boost levels. Even at higher boost levels, its still acceptable. Its not ideal, but allowing the motor to vent any pressure it needs is the main feature of this breather. Pulling out out of the motor helps, but its been proven to be relible without it.

Personally, on my car, for half the time i ran stock setup (rocker vent plumbed into the intake pipe causeing oil buildup) and it didnt really bother me gunking up the turbo. These motors have alot less blowby then a nissans, and turbos are designed to take this kind of usage.

After i cracked some ringlands, i used to let the breather and all the blowby just drain under the car. When i put my new motor/s in, i used a breather filter. Because i started to run more boost and differnt ring gaps. Plumbing this oil vapour into the intake will reduce octane rating and can induce pinging under excessive load.

[Weq]

Nope, the air goes into the crankcase, out through the PCV valve and into the intake manifold (which is after the turbo). The rocker cover is the inlet and the PCV valve is the outlet.

Its a two way valve. Actually its not a valve at all, its just a hole. Under certain loads it will expell pressure, under other loads it will suck in air. Plubming this isnto the intake system, it mostly expells air because the negative pressure of the engine overcomes it.

Checkout the massive threads on honda-tech regarding adding more vent ports and catch can setups... Its not something trivial, everyone has there own opinions and theorys. There are a few acceptable practices when it comes to PVC.

[beeza]

Thanks Weq! Great work! Repped!

So that's the thing,there's no 1 answer,there's a number of possible things you can do,ya just gotta understand and choose the best one for your set-up.

[aaronng]

Its a two way valve. Actually its not a valve at all, its just a hole. Under certain loads it will expell pressure, under other loads it will suck in air. Plubming this isnto the intake system, it mostly expells air because the negative pressure of the engine overcomes it.

Checkout the massive threads on honda-tech regarding adding more vent ports and catch can setups... Its not something trivial, everyone has there own opinions and theorys. There are a few acceptable practices when it comes to PVC.

From my understanding, the PCV is a 1 way valve.

[[ricer]]

ok cool we got it all sorted luke...

but why is a breather bad for the motor?


Cool but beeza (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=11606) was told its bad for your motor...

[Lukezen27]

;1635727']ok cool we got it all sorted luke...

but why is a breather bad for the motor?

What's what I asked lol

I don't know ether

[beeza]

Maybe since it worked on being vacumned out of the head,if that's not happening then I guess it's not doing what it was designed to do.You are modifying a stock set-up...
When I had the breather filter there it went black from the oil but it worked fine when I blew into it.On a turbo there would be more oil because of more pressure so it would probably clog up quickly.
That's all my thoughts :)

PM 'Transzex' on d-series Luke he will tell you.He is very helpful!
I would but I'm banned...

[Lukezen27]

Maybe since it worked on being vacumned out of the head,if that's not happening then I guess it's not doing what it was designed to do.You are modifying a stock set-up...
When I had the breather filter there it went black from the oil but it worked fine when I blew into it.On a turbo there would be more oil because of more pressure so it would probably clog up quickly.
That's all my thoughts :)

PM 'Transzex' on d-series Luke he will tell you.He is very helpful!
I would but I'm banned...

lol How did you get banned?

[beeza]

Here's the thread:
Iraq why? (http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=62828&highlight=iraq+why%3F&page=4)

I was very direct and blunt at times.I can word things much better now :)

[Lukezen27]

Here's the thread:
Iraq why? (http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=62828&highlight=iraq+why%3F&page=4)

I was very direct and blunt at times.I can word things much better now :)

lol GO SON...

[beeza]

Haha,Thanks Luke! :)

[JasonGilholme]

From my understanding, the PCV is a 1 way valve.

this is my current understanding as well.

In that link that was posted it says that its not a good idea to run a boosted setup with just a breather on the valve cover. I think otherwise however.

can someone explain to me why its a bad idea to run the stock PCV setup with just a breather on the valve cover? I dont see anything bad about it because its the stock design, and you've stopped any pressured air getting into the crank case.

EDIT: both the reccommended designs in that thread tell you to remove the PCV valve and remove the vacume hose from the system. so essentially you've removed any directional flow from the system so youj're not going to suck air out or push air in. its just going to be forced around by the momentum of the crankshaft and rotating assembly.

[beeza]

Wow! so do U just plug up the PCV valve and put a breather valve on the valve cover?

[JasonGilholme]

at the moment i'm NA and just have a breather on the valve cover and the rest of the system is stock.

But when i go turbo i want to do it right.

if the pcv valve is truely only a one way valve (only sucking the contents of the crankcase out when vacuum is present) then there shouldn't be a problem running the stock setup with a breather on the valve cover. Cause boost pressure from the manifold is not going to pass the one way valve (pcv valve) and go into the crank case. (aka travelling the wrong direction through the system).

This is all assuming that it is a one way valve of course.

[DLO01]

It is a one way valve. At least on the B's it is, cause I have one sitting in my tool box. Yes, theoretically it will work under boost as you said Jase. But I don't trust the valve for total seal and sticking open. I have removed mine and have both ends running to a catch can with a filter on top.

[bennjamin]

Guys ffs its a one way valve. On most if not all early 90's cars.

Read here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCV_valve

View this image - it is the vacuum route for the PCV system on all recent honda engines

http://z.about.com/d/autorepair/1/0/-/P/accord_pcv_657b.gif

If you follow the route from the intake arm , you will see that the "charge" travels into the head , circulates down past the pistons and thru the back of the block past the oil seperator ( OEM catch can). This then blows back up past the PCV ( positive crankcase valve) and then into the inlet manifold.

[JasonGilholme]

i knew it was a one way valve. and the whole idea of the system is to suck oily vapours out of the crank case.

i can't see how its going to suck vapours out if theres no vacuum applied to the system (which is what the diagrams show in that link that was posted for a turbo setup). essentially its letting the crank case breathe but its not pushing/pulling the vapours into the catch can. the only momentum is from the movement of the crank.

There needs to be some sort of vacuum in the crankcase for the system to work and if the pipe from the manifold is not used then theres no way that the case is going to be vented properly.

I'll have to pull my PCV valve out and have a look at the little guy. I might put an air compressor on the end and pump it up to 10 psi and see if it will hold pressure.

If the check valve for the brake boost can hold pressure then theres no reason why the pcv valve van't hold the same pressure. if the pcv valve doesn't hold pressure then i'll just use a check valve from the brake booster setup in its place and just put a breather on the top of the valve cover. at least that way there will be vacuum in the system at some stage.

[Limbo]

Luke - Breather is bad cos it can allow water vapour/moisture into your engine.

The PCV setup for turbos is on the link i posted.
It has a the catch can version, breather version and standard straight to throttle version.

i used the catch can version and it works fine. I get no blow-by

[bennjamin]

Luke - Breather is bad cos it can allow water vapour/moisture into your engine.

The PCV setup for turbos is on the link i posted.
It has a the catch can version, breather version and standard straight to throttle version.

i used the catch can version and it works fine. I get no blow-by

that and its illegal for emissions purposes. Just keep it hooked up to your intake arm , NA or boost guys :)

[JasonGilholme]

IMO, its got the same probability of getting water when compared to getting air from your car air filter, which is usually placed closer to the front of the engine bay where debris, water and other bad things can reach.

[JasonGilholme]

that and its illegal for emissions purposes. Just keep it hooked up to your intake arm , NA or boost guys :)

on boost however, connect it before the turbo i reckon. :thumbsup:

Dont' want a pressurised AND sealed crankase at the same time.

[aaronng]

on boost however, connect it before the turbo i reckon. :thumbsup:

Dont' want a pressurised AND sealed crankase at the same time.

I agree with connecting it before the turbo. Having a breather means you get crankcase vapour in your engine bay. Personally, I'd rather breath the exhaust gas from a car with no cat, rather than breath crankcase vapours. And this is coming from someone with a chemical background. Crankcase vapour is very very nasty.

[Limbo]

Aaronng - agreed.

Ben - yeah i know its illegal, forgot to add that, thought it was a moot point.

[bennjamin]

limbo can you draw up / or have a diagram of how this system works compared to the stock PCV system ? Interesting to compare.

[aaronng]

limbo can you draw up / or have a diagram of how this system works compared to the stock PCV system ? Interesting to compare.

Essentially, in a stock car, the intake manifold and the intake arm are under a slight vacuum when you are at full throttle (because air is sucked into the cylinder at a rate higher than the intake arm can supply it). So you get proper flow of the PCV system.

In a turbo car, intake piping after the turbo and the intake manifold are under positive pressure, so instead of crankcase vapour flowing out and into the intake manifold, the higher pressure stops proper crankcase vapour flow. So the PCV line and rocker cover line has to be plumbed back into a section that is below the pressure of the crankcase. That's why they suggested the piping before the turbo.

[JasonGilholme]

also, if the valve cover line is plumbed back to a position before the turbo, and your worried about extra blow by from higher cylinder pressures, you can run a catch tank the same way as you would on an NA setup. (between the manifold and the PCV valve.)

This is how i'm gonna do mine when the turbo is in.

[[ricer]]

both of the hoses here have been routed back to the intake arm.. the one from the head and valve cover.. i guess because the manifold having boost at some times rather then vacuum this is why it was done this way
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii59/jpsiong/IMG_2227.jpg

[Weq]

wow.

It is NOT a one way valve. is it a HOLE. Nothing more. Sometimes the engine needs to inhale air, sometimes it needs to expell air. This is a relief port. SIMPLE. It is common practice to plumb 2 or 3 extra ports into the valve cover, with baffles, to improve engine health and breathing.

Plumbing the port into the intake arm will allow the engine to 'evacuate' and scavange oil vapours. It is the ideal setup. Some people plumb this port into there exhaust in other configurations...

Leaving this valve venting to the atmosphere will increase crank case pressures, cause a little more stess on the rings, but ultimately, as long as it can vent, it will not cause any noticeable to msot mild setups. maybe in 100km's it might induce ring wear, but nothing more.

Ben; Citing wikipedia. :thumbsdown:

Once again, this is not a PVC valve.

[Weq]

;1637380']both of the hoses here have been routed back to the intake arm.. the one from the head and valve cover.. i guess because the manifold having boost at some times rather then vacuum this is why it was done this way


Yes this is exactly right. It means under boost, this valve cannot vent AT ALL. So u plumb it into a negitive pressure which is pre-turbo. This helps! We are lucky with our honda engines, PCV isnt really a big issue. Some engines, ala Nissans will fill your entire intake system with oil in no time. Mainly because they run a little more clearance in the rings..

Once again, this is all normal engine operation.

Ideal setup;

Catch can, everything plumbed from engine to catch can too intake OR exhaust. Use a slash-cut valve in the exhaust to stimulate a low pressure system and pull the air/vapours out of the engine

Acceptable setup, vent everything to atmosphere. Use a filter to be safe. You wont get accelerated contamination of oil by water.. This is false.

Unacceptable setup, One way valve closing this under boost. Not letting the engine vent under boost. This will increase crank case pressure and cause accelerated wear on ur rings, guides and other seals.

[aaronng]

wow.

It is NOT a one way valve. is it a HOLE. Nothing more. Sometimes the engine needs to inhale air, sometimes it needs to expell air. This is a relief port. SIMPLE. It is common practice to plumb 2 or 3 extra ports into the valve cover, with baffles, to improve engine health and breathing.


I was referring to the PCV valve at the block. Not the hole at the rocker cover.

[Weq]

i knew it was a one way valve. and the whole idea of the system is to suck oily vapours out of the crank case.

i can't see how its going to suck vapours out if theres no vacuum applied to the system (which is what the diagrams show in that link that was posted for a turbo setup). essentially its letting the crank case breathe but its not pushing/pulling the vapours into the catch can. the only momentum is from the movement of the crank.


This is assuming that piston rings and valve guides seal 100%. This is totally incorrect. Its a breathing motion. And engine breaths. In and out. Engine breaking will cause inhale, boost or lots of compression strokes will blead air from the cylinders into the crank case. That is a very very very simple explanation of how the engine breaths.



There needs to be some sort of vacuum in the crankcase for the system to work and if the pipe from the manifold is not used then theres no way that the case is going to be vented properly.

I'll have to pull my PCV valve out and have a look at the little guy. I might put an air compressor on the end and pump it up to 10 psi and see if it will hold pressure.

If the check valve for the brake boost can hold pressure then theres no reason why the pcv valve van't hold the same pressure. if the pcv valve doesn't hold pressure then i'll just use a check valve from the brake booster setup in its place and just put a breather on the top of the valve cover. at least that way there will be vacuum in the system at some stage.

[Weq]

I was referring to the PCV valve at the block. Not the hole at the rocker cover.

The OP asked if it was normal that oil was building up in the intake tract. Its not caused by the PVC valve. the PVC emptys directly into the intake manifold. You will notice this when u take the intake manifold off, it will be very oily and gunky. Same with the throttle body and this is why u need to clean these parts more often when shitty oil is used. It breaks down and contaminates everything.

The PVC valve is actually attached to the STOCk oil catch can. This is a little black box located under the intake manifold. The implemetation is a little raw, but it gets the job done ALONG with the breather in the valve cover.

[Limbo]

limbo can you draw up / or have a diagram of how this system works compared to the stock PCV system ? Interesting to compare.

This is the setup i used from http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html#PCV
This setup mimics the stock setup PCV system. The inlet to the PCV system is in the pre-turbo intake pipe. A 90* fitting (a bulkhead fitting would work, or a bent piece of metal tube) with the opening facing towards the filter will allow incoming air to flow into the system. The air then flows into the valve cover, into the crankcase, and then out of the PCV valve port which now has a simple plastic 90* barbed fitting (no PCV valve). From the PCV port the air flows into the side of the catch can and out of the top of the can. Air then flows back to the pre-turbo intake pipe. For the PCV system outlet another 90* fitting is placed with its opening facing the turbo.
This routing sets up a closed circuit system with pressure being exerted on one end and vacuum on the other.
http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/PCV_turbo_2fit.jpg


This is another alternative (breather which is illegal but its your choice)
http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/PCV_turbo_1fit.jpgThis routing is a little simpler than the one above. The valve cover fitting has a breather filter on it. Air flows through the crankcase and out of the PCV port which now has a plastic 90* barbed fitting in it (no PCV valve). From the PCV port, the air flows into the side of the catch can and out of the top of the can. Air then flows back to the pre-turbo intake pipe. A 90* fitting is not required here because air flowing across the opening of the fitting in the intake pipe will draw air out in the direction of air flow (the same reason water comes out the top of a straw when it is submerged in a glass of water and you blow across the top of it).
This routing is not a closed circuit system with the only drive for the system being provided by vacuum.




The problem when a turbocharger is added is that the intake pipe and intake manifold become pressurized. If the fitting on the valve cover is still connected to the pressurized intake pipe it will pressurize the crankcase too. At the same time, the PCV valve will close when pressure is exerted on the top half of the valve, sealing the crankcase. If no modifications are made to the system a pressurized and sealed crankcase will occur when the boost kicks in, this is the worst possible time to have a sealed and pressurized crankcase.
There are quite a few different opinions on how to plumb the PCV system for a turbo application. As long as the crankcase is not being pressurized by the intake charge pressure and the crankcase has some way to vent pressure you'll be in good shape. Probably the worst thing you can do is to add a valve cover breather filter to the fitting on the valve cover and retain the plumbing for the stock PCV valve. This would force the crankcase to vent through the valve cover breather filter. Many of the popular turbo PCV options include the use of a catch can. The catch can has internal baffling that separates out more oil vapor from the system. This is important because oil vapor effectively lowers the octane rating of the gas you are using, making detonation more likely. The catch can of choice is the Moroso Dry Sump Breather Tank Moroso part# 85470 (http://www.moroso.com/). The catch can needs to have 2 fittings on it. One is provided by way of a port on the side of the can. The other must be added by inserting a grommet into the top of the can (Help! PCV Grommet # 42048 for a Ford Econoline Van), and then a barbed fitting into the grommet. See picture below.


Hope that helps.

[Lukezen27]

Surely I can just add a catch can between the pre-turbo intake and rocker cover?

[aaronng]

Surely I can just add a catch can between the pre-turbo intake and rocker cover?

Of course you can.

[[ricer]]

Surely I can just add a catch can between the pre-turbo intake and rocker cover?

sure can!

[Lukezen27]

Of course you can.

Sweet

Now we have that sorted...

What's the best type/brand for this job?

Thanks Guys

Luke

[Limbo]

any brand is fine. Its just a can to let oil vapours go into

[aaronng]

Sweet

Now we have that sorted...

What's the best type/brand for this job?

Thanks Guys

Luke

Any. Put steel wool into bottom to give the oil vapour a surface to condensate on. I'd spend the money on good tubing and connectors/clamps.

[fatboyz39]

one vote for lipton ice tea bottle. it cheap and does work. lol

[Weq]

You really dont like to read. You dont like to comprehend. Or understand whats going on, do you? Just like to be spoon fed.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1635457&postcount=45

Point 1.

[Limbo]

one vote for lipton ice tea bottle. it cheap and does work. lol

Tried that before. The car crushed the bottle as it got too hot and the bottle became too soft

[bennjamin]

one vote for lipton ice tea bottle. it cheap and does work. lol

does ! ends up looking like a dirty bong in your engine bay tho lol.

Try a MTF container with steel wool inside - it has a handy side gauge to tell how much oil has been caught.

[fatboyz39]

Tried that before. The car crushed the bottle as it got too hot and the bottle became too soft

what you had it mounted on the headers or something. I've had it for 2years and it hasn't lost its shape.


there is cheap and expensive solution, up to you.

[Lukezen27]

You really dont like to read. You dont like to comprehend. Or understand whats going on, do you? Just like to be spoon fed.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1635457&postcount=45

Point 1.

So your telling me I can't just add a catch can?

Seems quite simple too me!

Turbo inlet - catch can - rocker cover...

I don't have that type of time you seem to have...

If I ever find the time to go into forums of a make of car I don't even own anymore just too pick and prod others I'll let you know.......

[bennjamin]

ive got an idea Luke. How about you just try it and see if, under any circumstances , putting some sort or catch can on this inlet pipe actually "Catches" anything.No real harm in it.

[Lukezen27]

ive got an idea Luke. How about you just try it and see if, under any circumstances , putting some sort or catch can on this inlet pipe actually "Catches" anything.No real harm in it.

Yeah I'll try it anyway..

Can't hurt :thumbsup:

[bennjamin]

in this case , no it cant hurt.
On a NA car it wont do anything , but in this "boosted" instance lets see.

[Limbo]

Just follow the diagram i put up guys. it tells you where to put the catch can

[Weq]

So your telling me I can't just add a catch can?

Seems quite simple too me!

Turbo inlet - catch can - rocker cover...

I don't have that type of time you seem to have...

If I ever find the time to go into forums of a make of car I don't even own anymore just too pick and prod others I'll let you know.......

I even insult idiots on forums based on cars that i have never owned!! Im not a brand whore.

[Lukezen27]

I even insult idiots on forums based on cars that i have never owned!! Im not a brand whore.

Well at lest your consistently rude I’ll give ya that!!


Just follow the diagram i put up guys. it tells you where to put the catch can



Yeah that's my plan bro :)

[Lukezen27]

Guys

The PCV valve is one way on my EG5.... and mines in good working order :)

Ive read Limbo line and now understand the basics
http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html#PCV

A small amount oil in the turbo intake is better than just installing breather so I'm put mine back to stock till I get a catch can.

Limbo who moded your Intake so this setup would work correctly?
http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/PCV_turbo_2fit.jpg

[Limbo]

i drilled 2 holes in the arm about 10cm apart (i didn't exactly measure, its a guestamate) then i put 2 rubber gromets in it. The right angle parts i used 2 small pieces of stainless steel pipe bent them carefully in a vice and intake done.

If anyone else wants to do them i'm sure you can use either brass or copper right angles from a pumbing supply, in case you don't have the stainless steel piping. Brass would prob be better out of the 2 as it doesn't corrode. Copper sometimes goes green if there is water & air present, but i think it this sealed application should be fine.

[Lukezen27]

i drilled 2 holes in the arm about 10cm apart (i didn't exactly measure, its a guestamate) then i put 2 rubber gromets in it. The right angle parts i used 2 small pieces of stainless steel pipe bent them carefully in a vice and intake done.

If anyone else wants to do them i'm sure you can use either brass or copper right angles from a pumbing supply, in case you don't have the stainless steel piping. Brass would prob be better out of the 2 as it doesn't corrode. Copper sometimes goes green if there is water & air present, but i think it this sealed application should be fine.

Hey Limbo what did you use for a fake PCV value?

[Limbo]

huh? the stock PVC valve is still in place, this setup is only to reduce the pressure buildup to allow the PVC system to work like stock without the added pressure in the manifold

[Lukezen27]

Hey Guys

I picked up my Moroso Dry Sump Breather Tanks No. 85470 of Adrian at TODA yesterday..
http://www.moroso.com/catalog/images/85473_part.jpg
http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=13400

I’m using this method.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c390/celicasupraxx/Del%20Sol%20Project/diagram2.jpg
Block off the IM
Block off the Pre-turbo intake

Drill out the PCV valve so it flows both ways and also increases air flow.
Run one line from the PCV valve/black box to the oil catch can.
Run the other from the rocker cover to the oil catch can

I have a few questions…

1.What bolts or screws should I use to install the Catch Can bracket to the firewall?
2. Where can I get 3 x Male 3/8” to 1” hose nipple?


Example http://www.rocketindustries.com.au/images/brands/proform/thumb_PR66369.jpg (http://www.rocketindustries.com.au/images/brands/proform/PR66369.jpg)

(http://www.rocketindustries.com.au/images/brands/proform/PR66369.jpg)