Alloy Lug Nut Dangers

[DLO01]

Hey guys,

Thought I would start this thread after speaking to a number of Qld boys and seeing that many people don't know the dangers when buying aftermarket Alloy Lug Nuts for their wheels.

We all consider the basic things when buying a lug nut:

- Thread width
- Thread pitch

Sure we think this is all to take in to account (me included originally) but there are other issues that you need to consider when buying these Alloy Nuts.

1. Oem wheels and Aftermaket Alloy Lug nuts: The "Seating" face. Honda Oem wheels have a 'bowled' (Acorn) ball seating face and by looking at your Oem wheel nuts you can observe this. (see photo below) See how the chrome oem nut, seat face is 'curved'. Next to it is a aftermarket Alloy nut. See how its mating face is chamfered, not curved, but straight. You can also see on this aftermarket item the affects when using it mated against a Oem curved seated wheel (see the wear mark around the top). As you can see, because of the mis-match of mating surfaces the whole surface area is focused along 1 point around the nut. "So?" you may think? Well instead of the whole load being distributed across the 'whole' 100% mating surface. You are now distributing the load over at a guess 10% or less of the area and it will astronomically multiply in load at that point. The dangers speak for themselves. These Nuts were not designed for this focused load and can and may fail.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/ResizeofDSC04739.jpg

This is the nuts I had on my ITR oem wheels. ie. not good. :o
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/ResizeofDSC04740.jpg

2. Aftermarket Alloy Lug nuts and Wheel Studs: Another thing we all do is chuch these Alloy nuts on without considering the strength difference between Alloy nuts Vs Oem Steel nuts. Sure they are "forged" alloy, but they will never be as strong as Oem 'given the same length of thread'. So therefore it is extreemly recomended to purchase "Extended Wheel Studs" for these Alloy nuts. This will give them extra thread to bite on to. Skunk2 recomends the use of extended wheel studs when using their Alloy Nuts as I am sure a lot of other top companies would. And a tip, don't use an air gun to tighten up your nuts, use a manual brace.

These are the different types off seats, Ball (OEM wheel), Conical (aftermarket wheel)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/lugnutseattypes0xehi6.jpg

This Checklist is what we SHOULD consider when buying Alloy Lug nuts:

Thread size
Thread pitch
Mating surface profile (make sure your lug nuts are matching to your wheels)
Extended wheel studs (install these when using Alloy lug nuts)
Torquing the lug nuts (Use a manual hand wheel brace, not a air gun)
Buy a brand name quality product (No substitute for quality) :thumbsup:

To sum up. Sure these aftermarket lug nuts are cool, light and a cheap addition to your car. But we really need to take in the consequences of just throwing them on our cars. It is a big safety issue which I don't think is that well known out there. I hope this write up thread provides some information to everyone on the dangers that can be involved with a what we think is 'just a simple/straight forward mod'.

Please, if there is any other info you wish me to add to this post, discuss away and I will endeavor to keep it up to date. :cool:

Additional Reference:

http://customwheelsmarket.com/wheelinkit.html

[T-onedc2]

Nice heads up there Dean! Does this not apply to using after market lug nuts with aftermarket wheels? i.e. I have Work rims with Work lug nuts.

[beeza]

Nice one Deano!
Hope U and ya Teg are Ok...

[DLO01]

Nice heads up there Dean! Does this not apply to using after market lug nuts with aftermarket wheels? i.e. I have Work rims with Work lug nuts.

Thats something in the check list you need to look at before buying the nuts. Visually check out the wheel mating surface. I think most if not all aftermarket wheels are a chamfered straight mating surface. Yours being same brand rims and nuts, you should be fine. :thumbsup:

Thanks Beeza.

[T-onedc2]

Thanks Dean, will check them out soon anyway

[vippy84]

good one!! thanks mate
what if u dun drive hard ur car? will it be okaY?

[vincikwan]

wat about the ones that max-power honda are selling? i'll be getting those...they seem to look ok.

[aaronng]

Before you buy nuts, always ask if they are tapered or curved (acorn)

[Alexx]

Very true dean great post.

I found this to be the case when i got my new wheels and tried to use a set of those extended nuts - the same as yours but black. They mating surface was small and inconsistent, with the nuts in some places not even going on straight as they were hitting the side of the seat at one point where it was raised compared to the rest of the seat. :eek:

Within a day i changed to another set of after market nuts that fit perfectly to the design on the wheel seat. I made sure to try them on to see if they were right for the wheel before i purchased them. Considering that they are the only things holding your wheel on, you want to be sure they are suitable for your application.

be careful guys and get the correct nuts to suit your wheel :thumbsup:

[DLO01]

Yep yep, Alexx


good one!! thanks mate

what if u dun drive hard ur car? will it be okaY?


Hard driving or not, if its a mis-match then don't use them. Use the right nuts for your wheels. :thumbsup:


wat about the ones that max-power honda are selling? i'll be getting those...they seem to look ok.

Those are perfectly fine. Main point I am trying to get at, you need the right one for the wheels you have. If your looking at using Alloy nuts, also invest in extended wheel studs.



Before you buy nuts, always ask if they are tapered or curved (acorn)

Acorn. Thanks Aaronng.

[ek4-guy]

Hey mate could you feel that the nuts didn't sit in the wheels properly eg: did the nut roll from side to side. My skunk2 lugs seem to sit very firmly into the buddyclub rims but i'll get out the ruler just to make sure the rims have a flat surface.

+1 rep for joo

[Alexx]

Another thing to add, just expanding on deans point about extended wheel studs:

With your oem steel nuts and wheels there are approximately 5-6 turns before the nut is completely on.

When you change your wheel, this may change.

if this value is the same or less, it is definatley suggested that you get extended wheel studs. If the number of turns is around 8 or more it may be ok, but its your call.

Safety first



edit - replying to darryl

yes, the nuts rolled around when you tried to put them on the seat when the wheel was off. Definately not an ideal situation

[vincikwan]

Before you buy nuts, always ask if they are tapered or curved (acorn)

so which one will suit the stock dc2r rims?

[DLO01]

Hey mate could you feel that the nuts didn't sit in the wheels properly eg: did the nut roll from side to side.

Yeh, like Alexx said. With the wheels off it did not seem right.

[DLO01]

so which one will suit the stock dc2r rims?

Acorn, curved type.

[vincikwan]

righto. like the ones in this thread...http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74781

it looks curved for the #WN202 Racing Wheel Nuts Set - 3 colours available ---- $56- (16pcs) / $68- (20pcs)

[DLO01]

They look like a straight cut to me. PM the trader to confirm what he can do for you.

[vincikwan]

alright...thanks

[Uzzi]

Another thing to consider when using alloy lug nuts is to put a smear of anti seize paste on the threads before torquing them up. As the name suggests this will prevent them from seizing up in the future. Also follow the correct sequence for tightening the lugs.

[IEVAQ8]

excellent write up deano..................
i had that issue when i got my dc2r which had buddy club lugs on the stock wheels and never sat right, so i asked my mate at honda and he double checked it for me............hence, i went ahead and bought stock type R wheel nuts from honda...................same as deannos pic in first page.............

its a mata of safety for your own good guys..............

i am know running rota slipstreams with rays extended nuts and are fitting and working fine, like deanno and others have mentioned, either take the wheels with you when buying nuts, or take the nuts with you when buy wheels...........

[Sexc86]

also ... be very carefully when attaching alloy nuts. Make sure the thred on your studs are free of all debris and they go on perfectly square. The threds are very easy to cross thred and strip.... which in turn may cause them to fail....

Last thing you want is going around a corner and you wheel flying off..

Also when tightning make sure they are done firm.. but not overtightned. What i found if you tightned too much they will just strip apart :S

ill get some pics of with what has happened to a few of mine


Regards Lyle

[vincikwan]

Do the JDM wheel nut fit our AUDM wheel?

[DLO01]

Excellent info guys. :thumbsup:


Do the JDM wheel nut fit our AUDM wheel?

The JDM oem wheel nuts?

Well I am using the AUDM oem wheel nuts on the JDM oem wheels. So yes they will be the same the other way around.

Both the JDM and AUDM oem wheels have the Acorn curved seat.

[vincikwan]

cool. gonna call honda tomorrow and buy some from them

[thaizeg]

hey DLO01,

wat nuts were u usin on ur slipstreams?
were there any issues?

[DLO01]

I was using the Skunk2 lug nuts on the Rotas. I was using them with the oem studs. If I were to use them again. I'll put on the extended studs as Skunk2 recomends.

[thaizeg]

^^
thanks man :thumbsup:

[IEVAQ8]

I was using the Skunk2 lug nuts on the Rotas. I was using them with the oem studs. If I were to use them again. I'll put on the extended studs as Skunk2 recomends.

you think extended studs req'd for rays nuts???????????

[DLO01]

Well I think its a good idea if using 'any' alloy nuts to also use extended studs.

What does Rays say? Has anyone seen if the recomend using long studs if using thier alloy lug nuts?

[IEVAQ8]

i found that this company gives the NOTED WARNING at the bottom of there ad:
so people please becarefull

Rays Engineering, the maker of Volk Racing Wheels, has released a new line of performance lug nuts. Made from Duraluminum, these lug nut are extremely strong and light (the Rays lug nuts are 0.8 oz. each compared to 2.1 oz. for the stock pieces). In addition to the performance aspects, the Rays lug nuts also feature one 7-sided nut per wheel. These heptagonal nuts look stock from a distance, but can only be removed with the specially designed socket that comes with the set. Available in anodized red, blue, or black. It's a great way to protect your wheels! Sets are sold in packs of 20 pcs only.

Please specify size.
M12 x 1.5mm application: Fits Hondas, Acuras, Toyotas, Lexus, Mazda, Mitsubishi etc
M12 x 1.25mm application: Fits Subarus, Nissans, etc.

NOTE: LUG NUTS ARE MADE WITH TAPERED BOTTOMS SPECIFICALLY FOR AFTERMARKET WHEELS. DO NOT USE THESE TUNER LUGS FOR YOUR FACTORY WHEELS. WE NO LONGER ACCEPT RETURNS ON LUG NUTS FROM CUSTOMERS WHO ATTEMPT TO USE THEM ON FACTORY WHEELS. THESE LUGS ALSO DO NOT FIT ON SPECIAL WHEELS THAT REQUIRE INVERTED LUGS. WE WILL ALSO NOT ACCEPT RETURNS FROM CUSTOMERS THAT TRY TO USE THEM FOR THESE TYPES OF WHEELS.

[DLO01]

Well there ya go. Thanks for that info. :thumbsup:

[IEVAQ8]

Well there ya go. Thanks for that info. :thumbsup:

no worries man..........just adding your thred...................

i cant find anywhere that rays recommends extended studs for their lug nuts....................anyone got that info????????????????

[marky53]

This picture might also help explain Deano's writeup on page 1..... this shows the difference between oem and aftermarket....

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2339/lugnutseattypes0xehi6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

the conical are the aftermarket and the radius are oem.

[mrpsi]

cheers for the heads up bud... i run the same lug nuts but on Rays wheels... will take them off and check the lug

[DLO01]

Nothing better than a picture Marky. Thanks. :thumbsup:

[mrpsi]

will get some pics up tonight if i can....

where do you get extended studs from? and are they hard to install....

i noticed that there isnt much thread on the wheel studs.... can you post a link or pics of these extended studds?


cheeers guys!

[Bludger]

too many ppl don't know this

seen too many ppl use the wrong lug nuts throughout the years....

[raz05]

will get some pics up tonight if i can....

where do you get extended studs from? and are they hard to install....

i noticed that there isnt much thread on the wheel studs.... can you post a link or pics of these extended studds?


cheeers guys!


I've got some extended stud for sell here...lol
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87565

[Philip Lee]

how about the other way round? factory nuts on Rays wheels? is it safe?

[Bludger]

I think it would be ok, factory nuts are steel

[ek4-guy]

How long are yours raz05? The skunk2 ones i've got are 3in

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u156/ek4-guy/Skunk2studs.jpg

[Bludger]

i used to run that monitor

lol

[DLO01]

how about the other way round? factory nuts on Rays wheels? is it safe?

We are still not getting it. Use the right ones for you wheels. Do not mix and match.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/lugnutseattypes0xehi6.jpg

[DLO01]

Darryl (ek4-guy) has the right idea. :thumbsup:

[IEVAQ8]

i still cant find anything about the rays lug nuts recommending extended wheel studs..................................

anyone??????????

[marky53]

Ive got dc5r rims with aftermarket conical nuts.... I cant say Ive had any problems after 2000 ks. Ive just checked the tension on them and they all appear to be solid. If you look at the picture, they have a similar wear as Deano's on page 1..... Should I get rid of these wheel nuts??? If so, where can I get radius wheel nuts in black???

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9246/wheelnuts012ra8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[condomsakti]

how about the other way round? factory nuts on Rays wheels? is it safe?

I don't think you can put factory nuts on Rays wheels, coz the Rays wheels and most aftermarket wheels needs the tapered/conical type nuts which are 60 degree conical seat. All honda nuts are acorn/ball/radius type (See pic diagram) therefore it won't fit.

I hope this help ;)

[DLO01]

Ive got dc5r rims with aftermarket conical nuts.... I cant say Ive had any problems after 2000 ks. Ive just checked the tension on them and they all appear to be solid. If you look at the picture, they have a similar wear as Deano's on page 1..... Should I get rid of these wheel nuts??? If so, where can I get radius wheel nuts in black???

What sort of seat are the stock dc5r rims? I take it they are they a ball type like the dc2r Rims?

If they are ball and your using those tapered nuts then I would not use them. Sure you might not have run in to problems with them, as with me. But they are still not the right type for your wheels, and you can see that from your photo.

I don't know where to get aftermarket ball lug nuts from. :(

[marky53]

This was taken from http://customwheelsmarket.com/, further reiterating Deano's post..... Does anyone know what the seat of dc5r rims are??

LUG NUTS: It is critical that the lug nut matches the thread diameter, pitch and seat, otherwise the installation will be improper, and may result in damage to your wheels and could cause a dangerous condition. The three basic types of lug nuts are: conical seat (60 degrees taper "acorn" and "bulge"), mag or shank style, and spherical or ball seat. Thread diameter refers to the diameter of the stud measured across the shank at the outer edges of the threads. Thread-pitch means either the number of threads per inch or if metric, the distance in millimeters between threads. The Seat means the area on the wheel where the lug nut will clamp down.

Warning

Never use a conical seat lug nut/bolt on a mag or shank type lug seat and never use a mag or shank type lug nut/bolt on a conical seat. The two are not compatible and if installed incorrectly, the lug nuts may lose torque, possibly resulting in wheel loss or contributing to damage or injury. In addition, spherical or ball seat lug nuts/bolt must be used with spherical or ball seats. ONLY USE THE TYPE OF LUG NUT/BOLT COMPATIBLE WITH THE TYPE OF LUG SEAT.

[DLO01]

^^^ Yeh, wow! Thats excellent. Thanks for that Marky. :thumbsup:

[ek4-guy]

i still cant find anything about the rays lug nuts recommending extended wheel studs..................................

anyone??????????


i believe the rays nuts are the capped type not an open end type like the Skunk2, if they are the capped type then you wouldn't be able to use extended studs.

[IEVAQ8]

i believe the rays nuts are the capped type not an open end type like the Skunk2, if they are the capped type then you wouldn't be able to use extended studs.

yeh i realised that...lol

but what out for the extended rays ones>???????????

[RtN]

so which one will suit the stock dc2r rims?

Umm.. blades?

[traumatized]

if i was to get lock nuts for say FN2 rims would i go for the Acorn Steel Tapered Lock Nuts or the Regular Mag (Shank) Lock Nuts

please refer to the pictures in the link below

http://www.speedywheels.com.au/locknuts.htm

[Bludger]

why don't you take off one nut and have a look at which type you need?

takes less than 1 minute

[traumatized]

at the moment its got the standard nuts on it so its acorn, but im looking at the picture of the lock nuts and the acorn version doesnt look that rounded so i thought i would ask

[RtN]

Hmm reckon we could get like.. some wheel place to drill so that its tapered instead of acorn? sure would give us more variety of lugs to choose from.

[Bludger]

at the moment its got the standard nuts on it so its acorn, but im looking at the picture of the lock nuts and the acorn version doesnt look that rounded so i thought i would askthey look fine

[DLO01]

if i was to get lock nuts for say FN2 rims would i go for the Acorn Steel Tapered Lock Nuts or the Regular Mag (Shank) Lock Nuts

please refer to the pictures in the link below

http://www.speedywheels.com.au/locknuts.htm



at the moment its got the standard nuts on it so its acorn, but im looking at the picture of the lock nuts and the acorn version doesnt look that rounded so i thought i would ask

If you have Acorn nuts on and that is OEM then buy Nuts to suit. :thumbsup:

[RtN]

so eh... can we get a wheel place to drill over the same holes so that they can fit lugs safely? as in like just a shave =] or something lol

[Bludger]

can't see why not....

[vincikwan]

seems like there are no aftermarket round/ball/radius wheel nuts....or its a very difficult find. all i find is the conical/tapered type of nut

[chargeR]

seems like there are no aftermarket round/ball/radius wheel nuts....or its a very difficult find. all i find is the conical/tapered type of nut

Spoon used to make grey aluminium nuts with an acorn seat to fit OEM wheels. They are now discontinued however you might be able to still find a new set somewhere.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1954/wheelnuts460696ka0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[ek4-guy]

i seen some aftermarket acron seat lugs when i was having my tyres fitted but they were chrome

[TALEB TYRES]

let me know what nuts you need as i supply all these accesories as well, cheaper than repco or whatever that want $5 a nut

i dont do any aluminium or light weight, only normal nuts in various styles/applications

[vincikwan]

what about colour...i dont really need light weight! LOL

[TALEB TYRES]

only have chrome or standard ones if theyre open type nuts. never had a problem with my nuts, no pun intended
I say this becuase i shipped some over to an ozhonda user, who was quoted like 4 times what i shipped them for from a local big-name tyre store

[vincikwan]

i dont need open type or any special type of nuts. I am only looking for any type of round nut to fit the oz-spec dc2r stock wheels that are red in colour.

[ek4-guy]

Well just buy chrome and have them powder coated red

[Limbo]

i brought something similar from Autobarn for $60-70 they had different colours and also comes with a special key to open

[vincikwan]

where can i have them powder coated? seems like a good idea....i can chose my custom colour as well.

By the way, slightly off topic, does anyone know how to DIY the red lining on the volk time attack rims? i think i saw a thread on it somewhere but cant find it now.

[ek4-guy]

check your yellow pages dude

[vincikwan]

not a very useful reply....but still, thats a place to start.

[Bludger]

not a very useful reply....but still, thats a place to start.stupid questions get stupid answers

[ek4-guy]

not a very useful reply....but still, thats a place to start.

Sorry that my reply was not usefull for you but this thread isn't here to serve your personal needs in finding red lug nuts.

It was setup to make people aware if the dangers when using the wrong type of lug nuts.

[vincikwan]

i was just replying to taleb tires as he offered help...anyway, lets stop flooding this thread abt this and let the dangers of nuts thread go on.

[IZY-10]

hmmmm interesting read. I just took my stock lug nuts off my stock rims and had a look at the contact and it was making with the rim. on closer observation of the lug nut i realised that the Honda lugs are not that much better at all. I will post pics tomorrow to show you my findings

[vinnY]

ievaq-8; out of curiosity how much did they charge for your nuts?
no pun intended ;)

[IEVAQ8]

ievaq-8; out of curiosity how much did they charge for your nuts?
no pun intended ;)

umm..............i think it was about $16 + the lock nuts $45

thats trade price..................

[gambate]

hmmmm interesting read. I just took my stock lug nuts off my stock rims and had a look at the contact and it was making with the rim. on closer observation of the lug nut i realised that the Honda lugs are not that much better at all. I will post pics tomorrow to show you my findings

update?

[MWAKU]

can this be stickied, hate having to keep searching for it

[JDM-derek]

great thread (Y)

[Eze]

can anybody recommend where i can get some red lug nuts for my dc2r stock rims?

[vinnY]

short answer? you won't find any

[Eze]

=/ i guess just spray em and clear the shit out of them? lol

[Alexx]

If you absolutely must run aftermarket flashy nuts on your standard wheels, you can take the wheels to a machineing shop and they can machine the lug holes to accept tapered nuts.

[Eze]

For the people that still want safe oem lug nuts that are RED on theyre cars i finaly found them can be purchased here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sprint-Wheels-Lightweight-Alloy-wheel-nuts-x4-OEM-Red-/190331201450?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Wheels_tyres_Trim_Nuts_E T&hash=item2c509fa7aa

cheers

[mocchi]

For the people that still want safe oem lug nuts that are RED on theyre cars i finaly found them can be purchased here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sprint-Wheels-Lightweight-Alloy-wheel-nuts-x4-OEM-Red-/190331201450?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Wheels_tyres_Trim_Nuts_E T&hash=item2c509fa7aa

cheers

thanks for sharing that info!

[mnc]

For the people that still want safe oem lug nuts that are RED on theyre cars i finaly found them can be purchased here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sprint-Wheels-Lightweight-Alloy-wheel-nuts-x4-OEM-Red-/190331201450?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Wheels_tyres_Trim_Nuts_E T&hash=item2c509fa7aa

cheers



Has anyone had any experience with these yet? Does the colour stay nice and bright like that for a long time?

Because im using the rays red extended nuts and after a few months they faded to a pink colour....

[Gio]

Bump this great info up

[mnc]

Found some great info on Honda-Tech + clubrsx relating to using aftermarket wheel nuts such as rays on oem wheels.

http://www.clubrsx.com/cr/SSR-WHEELWASHER.html

Now you can use these washers and be on the safe side =]

[ericl33]

bump for the noobs

[Setanta]

This really, really needs to be stickied. I bought a set of Rays nuts for (oh the irony) my ITR AKA Dean's old car. Unbolted the existing nuts, went to open the package and noticed the difference. Did some quick research and sent a message off to the supplier. Then did some more searching and found this thread.

Edit: Found this link - wonder if it's worth testing?

http://www.kseriesparts.com/cr/SSR-WHEELWASHER.html

http://www.kseriesparts.com/graphics/00000001/taper1.jpg

Washers that change the taper from slant to ball.

[vinnY]

^used them before, they don't really work well as i've found they deform under pressure
i was unable to torque them up to 80ft-lbs before deforming

there was a type of lug lock nut that i found should work, project kics i think as their seat moves independently to the nut so it should push on to the washer instead of forcing it's way though it
don't take my word for it though, i never could justify splashing out on kics

clicky (http://image.dhgate.com/albu_252954027_00/1.0x0.jpg) for photo

[junoki]

I don't think you can put factory nuts on Rays wheels, coz the Rays wheels and most aftermarket wheels needs the tapered/conical type nuts which are 60 degree conical seat. All honda nuts are acorn/ball/radius type (See pic diagram) therefore it won't fit.

I hope this help ;)

Ive used Mcguard conical seat nuts with rays wheels, rays conical nuts with Work wheels, usually aftermarket nuts will work with aftermarket wheels

from what ive experienced you cant use aftermarket nuts with OEM wheels unless the aftermarket nuts also come in a flat/ Round seat type

When i was returning my evo back to stock the OEM wheels needed a flat type lug nut, i remember wanting to purchase a set of ralliart/Mcguard lug nuts and being asked by parts guy if i wanted cone seat or flat seat