E 10 Petrol

[Alvin]

I am wondering how any of you civic drivers find the E 10 petrol other than the benifits of a lower price tag at the pump. Does it perform as good or any better that the normal unleaded? Is it recommended?

[dahon]

i dont know about the newer engines, but i hear that the ethanol mix will alter the combustion properties of the petrol, thus playing havoc with your cars timing, especially with the old cars with distributors. also the ethanol plays havoc with your fuel lines apparently? nowadays i hear the newer engines allow the ecu to change the timing automatically so it will detect the new fuel and alter accordingly apparently. i dont really know, if someone can confirm my speculations? i too am also wondering about E10.

[aaronng]

You can use it on newer engines. The reason why it is not recommended on older cars is because the ethanol can attack the fuel lines and valve seats in those cars which were not spec'd for use with ethanol.

[dahon]

ahh ic ic
thnx aaronng :)

[Alvin]

Question remains...what do you guy think of the E 10 to be used for 07 Civic. Any E 10 users?

[aaronng]

Question remains...what do you guy think of the E 10 to be used for 07 Civic. Any E 10 users?

07 Civic can use E10. It's stated on Honda Australia's website. Probably get slightly worse fuel consumption though.

[denot]

tried using it few times in a row before... fuel consumption is higher (from avg 10.5L/100kms to 12L/100kms) and can feel a bit loss of "acceleration" :thumbdwn:

[Reothe]

LOL I really wonder if any FN2R owners out there have tried E10. Cuz a few weeks ago I was filling up my tank and noticed there was a sticker on the fuel cap which says Premium 95 or E10 acceptable.

[panda[cRx]]

You can use it on newer engines. The reason why it is not recommended on older cars is because the ethanol can attack the fuel lines and valve seats in those cars which were not spec'd for use with ethanol.

yep aaron is correct. as far as i can recall all current honda models can use 'e10' fuel with up to 10% blended* ethanol content (which is current legal max anyway).

honda has only tested it back to 03 models so they will not recommend it for anything before then.

* blended during manufacturing, not splash blend at servo

[dmx]

ah.. come on... only cheaper about 4 cents.
you save only $2.00 for 50L. but more "thirsty" and "loss" accel.
so what for then :-)

[Mr_will]

ah.. come on... only cheaper about 4 cents.
you save only $2.00 for 50L. but more "thirsty" and "loss" accel.
so what for then :-)

at Mobil it is only 2.5 cents cheaper

[MrThanh]

LOL I really wonder if any FN2R owners out there have tried E10. Cuz a few weeks ago I was filling up my tank and noticed there was a sticker on the fuel cap which says Premium 95 or E10 acceptable.

i do. have for the past couple months or so now. i've noticed increased economy and no noticable difference in performance. getting about 520km/tank mixed hwy and city/peak hr traffic. was getting ~480kms with vortex98/ultimate

[tokyonite]

Vpower all da time!

[JaCe]

On my fuel cap cover it says "E10 suitable" lol... anyway, on topic, I've found that E10 makes the engine rev more freely and quickly BUT with no associated increase in power. It's as if it's noisier and sounds like it's doing more when really, I need to get more revs and use more petrol to get the same performance I would've gotten with regular unleaded.

[Coldie]

LOL I really wonder if any FN2R owners out there have tried E10. Cuz a few weeks ago I was filling up my tank and noticed there was a sticker on the fuel cap which says Premium 95 or E10 acceptable.

I used Shell VPower Racing (100 octane - 10% ethanol) in my FN2 for a couple tanks and notice an increase in performace and efficiency. However I now use only Mobile synergy 8000 - 98 octane - as recommend by someone that actually did a test on Australian Fuels. BP Ultimate comes in 2nd.

click here to check out the results (http://www.racefuels.com.au/dynoDetail.asp?ID=59)

[markCivicVti]

On my fuel cap cover it says "E10 suitable" lol... anyway, on topic, I've found that E10 makes the engine rev more freely and quickly BUT with no associated increase in power. It's as if it's noisier and sounds like it's doing more when really, I need to get more revs and use more petrol to get the same performance I would've gotten with regular unleaded.

Is it just me or does this make no sense.... as revs are proportional to speed... i.e in X gear at Y revs you'll always be at the same speed as it's mechanically impossible be at a different speed on the same gear and revs.

Jace mate... wouldn't that mean that there is a slight improvement? Or its just psychological.

[dahon]

wouldnt the ethanol within the fuel itself also raise the octane rating of the fuel aswell? or the combustion properties of the fuel? thus increasing performance and making it comparable and cheaper to manufacture than say unleaded95?

[Mr_will]

On my fuel cap cover it says "E10 suitable" lol... anyway, on topic, I've found that E10 makes the engine rev more freely and quickly BUT with no associated increase in power. It's as if it's noisier and sounds like it's doing more when really, I need to get more revs and use more petrol to get the same performance I would've gotten with regular unleaded.

its all in your head dude

[JaCe]

Probably is lol... but it definitely soudns noisier than before :S

[ekhybrid]

Probably is lol... but it definitely soudns noisier than before :S

LMAO.

[aaronng]

wouldnt the ethanol within the fuel itself also raise the octane rating of the fuel aswell? or the combustion properties of the fuel? thus increasing performance and making it comparable and cheaper to manufacture than say unleaded95?

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: That's right. That's why I am alright with United's cheaper E10 fuel. But I am not alright with Shell's more expensive Vpower racing.

[cracker]

so i hear that the ethanol bonds with the normal petrol and causes some sort of moisture which like kinda means it has a tiny itty bitty bit of water in the fuel and that cud like lead to rusting of parts in the car...correct me if im wrong please...this way i'll become smarter :) but furthermore i feel that e10 burns more readily so like its less fuel efficient and the acceleration thing, i cant really feel the difference, dont really get to floor it much...

[dahon]

itll burn more readily thus itll be a good alternative for those cars (newer) whose ecu can change the spark timing easily and whose fuel lines are adapted for the ethanol im guessing.
as for the moisture you normally get moisture within your car engine anyway (its not a perfect system, you have to also account for water in the air, contaminated fuel etc etc) and im sure this has been accounted for by car manufacturers & designers. I highly doubt it would cause corrosion within your combustion chamber as the gases and water vapour would be extracted away before they have a chance to bond with the metal (and also consider there is an oil layer there aswell). within the exhaust system the constant flow of gasses would also expel these vapours.
as for fuel consumption, do a fuel consumption test between the two and see. im pretty sure theyd be the same, and considering E10 is 3-5c/L cheaper, its a good enough fuel for a daily.

[cracker]

why is it a good alternative if it burns more readily?? then we'd just have to frequently fill the car up??

[dahon]

actually i dont know about the burning more readily statement.
there are alot of factors that contribute to ethanol being a viable fuel additive. heres part of wikipedia.. hehehe

"Alcohol fuels such as methanol and ethanol, are partially oxidized fuels and need to be run at much richer mixtures than gasoline. As a consequence, the total volume of fuel burned per cycle counterbalances the lower energy per unit volume, and the net energy released per cycle is higher. If gasoline is run at its preferred maximum power air/fuel mixture of 12.5:1, it will release approximately 20 MJ (about 19,000 BTU) of energy, where ethanol run at its preferred maximum power mixture of 6.5:1 will liberate approximately 25.7 MJ (24,400 BTU), and methanol at a 4.5:1 AFR liberates about 29.1 MJ (27,650 BTU).[citation needed] To account for these differences, a measure called the fuel's specific energy is sometimes used. It is defined as the energy released per air/fuel ratio.
Using a fuel with a higher octane lets an engine run at a higher compression ratio without having problems with knock. Actual compression in the combustion chamber is determined by the compression ratio as well as the amount of air restriction in the intake manifold (manifold vacuum) as well as the barometric pressure, which is a function of elevation and weather conditions.
Compression is directly related to power (see engine tuning), so engines that require higher octane usually deliver more power."

so in the end your car would produce more power due to the ethanol blend fuel (higher octane), but use a little bit more fuel in the process. but if you think about it, with more power, you wouldnt be pushing the engine as hard as you normally would, thus reducing your fuel consumption. so in the end itll even out to an extent.

theres also a good reason here why older engines shouldn't use really high based ethanol fuels:

"When this occurs, if a fuel with below recommended octane is used, the engine will knock. Modern engines have anti-knock provisions built into the control systems and this is usually achieved by dynamically de-tuning the engine while under load by increasing the fuel-air mixture and retarding the spark."

instead of using a lower octane fuel, if too high a octane fuel is used in an older engine, timing issues can occur due to the different compressions and with the lack of dynamic tuning of the engine in the older cars, timing will be different causing spark & timing issues.

[cracker]

nice....so everybody who said they feel loss of acceleration was wrong? lolol

[Mr_will]

ethanol contains around 30% less energy than petrol, so E10 contains around 3% less.

Yet it is only around 1.7% (2.5cents per litre) cheaper.

[dahon]

here in syd its more like 3-4c cheaper.
plus its friendlier in regards to emissions for those greenies out there