turbo b16a or b20vtec yo?

[iwantvtec]

yer jus looking at wat i can do in the future to pump up the juice in my b16a... What would you reckon has more balls? and list some pros and cons for each.

[tommmoe]

basicly, if you want more torque go b20
and if you want to keep your revs go turbo b16

[iwantvtec]

hmmmm. decisions.. im aiming for 150-160 atw as a power figue. Budgitly which option seems more relistic?

[Limbo]

turbo b16 has more torque than the b20 also :).

The other good thing about a turbo is that if you tune it properly, underboost it will still have close to the same milage as a 1.6ltr

The b20 is a good option if you wanna keep NA

[Limbo]

a b20 is likely to give about 115kw to 130kw atw from the ones i've been seeing.

150kw-160kw - any decent turbo setup will get you there.

Not saying that the b20 is not achievable, will just cost more to get there

[iwantvtec]

hey limbo did you do your internals? b4 u boosted yours? and how much did your turbo kit and install cost u?

[Limbo]

nope stock internals.

SPent all my money on parts, which is the key to a turbo build. Pick the best possible parts you can get your hands on.

Main stuff you should look for
Turbo - get one that matches what you want - get a branded turbo, Garret or some well known brand, don't get a no-name one.
turbo Header - get one that fits especially if you want a/c & P/S
ECU - choice but i'd get something like PFC or Hondata, less messing around
Injectors - RC or precision (if you want second hand GTR ones)

Since your in MElb, i'd talk to James. He's very helpful and prob you best bet for tuning in melb

slowly buy each part you need so you can keep you costs down

Didn't really pay for labour, did a few things by myself and lots of work by Performance exhaust.

[iwantvtec]

is your car an every day car?, im jus scared if i boost my car, the reliability of it will jus go....

[iwantvtec]

James? from revzone?

[Jarkz]

B16 + turbo....

Cheaper, easier & will make more power than a N/A B20 Vtec.

If your worried about reliability keep boost levels under 10psi on a interenal stock B16 + a nice tune :)

And yes Revzone will be able to tune your package.

Lastly I hear standard VL turbo T3's are a great & cheap turbo for your application.

[WPN.22R]

work out your budget first, and that will help the decision. I say make sure you have around 8-10k in your pocket for a proper turbo build.

[BT1_BOY]

TURBO always!!

[VTECMACHINE]

If you have 11K, go for a DART B20 engine... :)

Comes with a year warrenty - and gaurentted 150ish kW's... Torques as ferrkkk tooo! Awsome.

[DLO01]

Turbo your B16A.

But up to you.

[[ricer]]

I havent driven a b20vtec before but i must say boosted b16a is heapppps of fun!!!!

[z3lda]

buy my car and turbo it.

[iwantvtec]

man i alrdy hv a b16a. y the hell would i buy your car? yer im prepared to pay up to 10 k for a proper turbo setup.

[LaZaZaL89]

Something bad about a b20 vtec + turbo? xD (apart from thin b20 walls)

[iwantvtec]

1 thing i dnt like bout the b20 is the gear ratios.. not like a b16a 1 which is very close.

[diffuzn]

how many kms is on ur b16?

[[ricer]]

1 thing i dnt like bout the b20 is the gear ratios.. not like a b16a 1 which is very close.

lol..

[90xsi]

you can use the your b16 box with the b20
gess you just got the b16 in and looking to mod it already

[iwantvtec]

im not too sure how many km's on my b16 but guessing round 120xxx, yer jus got my b16 =]

[iwantvtec]

Originally Posted by iwantvtec View Post
1 thing i dnt like bout the b20 is the gear ratios.. not like a b16a 1 which is very close.
lol..

I meant the crv gear box sux. My mum has crv so yer. I know gear boxes r enchangable within b series.

[omgzilla]

I'll be in the same boat once... my B16A blows - Just about to clock 200,000klms!

I'm thinking either rebuild for turbo setup or B20VTEC.

I'll be watching this thread closely! Hmmm decisions, decisions ...

[iwantvtec]

i know if you go with the b20 its just not as fun as a b16 any more, like the revvyness is like fun as fek. But because of the b20 being a 2l, the rev limiter is adjusted to be lower. =]

[thaizeg]

i know if you go with the b20 its just not as fun as a b16 any more, like the revvyness is like fun as fek. But because of the b20 being a 2l, the rev limiter is adjusted to be lower. =]

yea?? do u kno this for sure?

[iwantvtec]

yer well from experience of driving my parents crv, Its def not as revvy as a b16a. But who knos maybe with a b16a head could be dif. I hv NFI.

[fatboyz39]

If you want a turbo kit, buy in US. Like Full race, AFI (arizona force induction), peak boost. Decent kit about 5k-6k landed.

As for b20, they can rev. 8200rpm are safe for stock rods.

[Limbo]

i drive mine daily.
I think for you speak with James, and get decent parts and make your turbo kit.

States are good for some things, but you really need to know what your buying. You sound like a real novice, based on some of your comments, so speak with someone who is likely to tune your car, and has build a few of them.

I know i watched 3-4 turbo honda builds before i did mine and asked alot of questions. But then it helps to know a builder.

First thing, work out how much money you have. Then add another 1k or so as a buffer as your gonna need it. Then think what you want. Daily driver i'd go gt28r, very responsive turbo and is perfect for a b16.

Now the turbo is the heart of the thing so make sure you don't go cheap on this part.

Then pick your manifold - log manifold is quite good if your on a budget. Just make sure it will fit with your turbo. Try to stay away from cheap stainless steel ones

Then get injectors, fuel pump (second hand is ok also)

ECU and a few more little bits and pieces and your ready.

6k you should be able to do a decent turbo setup including tune.

There is also AVO world in melb, who has a kit they can install & tune for you.
Their ECU is prob not the best but their kit is quite good.

Or get a seond hand kit online here.

[Stcmon]

hmm i think ill troll this thread lol

[iwantvtec]

yer lol im pretty noob at this honda stuffonly had my car for 7 months/ n been only driving for 5 months. so yer =]

[Encor3]

yer well from experience of driving my parents crv, Its def not as revvy as a b16a. But who knos maybe with a b16a head could be dif. I hv NFI.

Trust me dont compare the b16a to crv b20.

I have b20vtec in my car.

B20 block + b16a head.

It still revs fine but you dont really need to because of the gob-loads of torque.

B16 i found that you really had to work the engine hard to get power, B20 you dont because of the larger displacement.

If you want to know more check out AKmotorworks, he has a tech article about b20vtec.

I'd also recommend him to either turbo or b20vtec swap your car as he did mine :thumbsup:

[iwantvtec]

lol andy did my b16a. Absolute banger =] i alrdy brought up these 2 options 2 him.

[LaZaZaL89]

Theres no replacement for displacement?? :P

Just out of curiousity, how dangerous would it be to run a daily CRVTEC on around 8psi with their weak walls..?

[Encor3]

Theres no replacement for displacement?? :P

Just out of curiousity, how dangerous would it be to run a daily CRVTEC on around 8psi with their weak walls..?

its not really the amount of boost you run, I think its got more to do with the tune of it all.

[steve88]

http://www.superhonda.com/photopost/data/519/11527NA_is_Best.jpg

[barefootbonzai]

Both setups will be sweet. It's really up to you what you want and plan to do with your car.

For example if you plan on circuit racing, i'd go the B20 over the B16 turbo. If it's just for street and drag strip you'll be quicker with a good turbo kit.

[Aza]

if u want reliability use a dual stage boost controller, run 6 psi lo boost 10 psi hi.

still would need to do ur research, turbo set ups are only reliable when u do it right and dont take shot cuts.

[votek]

how mcuh would a b20 cost to build?

[trism]

there is a thread in teh all motor section about it.

your lookin at:
b20z block
b16 vtec head
your choice of rods and pistons,
bearings
rod bolts
headstuds

[iwantvtec]

i really want it 4some circuit racing/ n some street touge. I realise that the turbo path will just make it harder, because of the under steer/ torque steer with the amount of boost etc. But i think im more leaning to the turbo direction...

[MWAKU]

i'd just get b20 build. stay NA.
turbo, blah rofl, i'd jsut go buy a turbo car if turbo action, at the end of the day, its just an EG. >_< not saying nefing bad about EG.
like all said, what you want outta you're car, so yeah. b20 i say.

[trism]

iwantvtec, my build will be for the same purpose, track/touge

im going the route of a b20vtec build, N/A with a nice high comp ratio, fresh internals and quad throttle bodies

im budgeting a good 8k for build and tune

[Limo]

i really want it 4some circuit racing/ n some street touge. I realise that the turbo path will just make it harder, because of the under steer/ torque steer with the amount of boost etc. But i think im more leaning to the turbo direction...

if your serious about a turbo, ill take you for a spin.

but as everybody has said do your research and ask alot of questions. also if you speak to james, dont get too scared of the costs involved, he likes to build things properly.

[iwantvtec]

fk dat'll b sweeet if u can show me how a turbo honda goes., hmmm... yer i've give him a buzz on the weekend maybe i can just talk 2 him on where to source parts and cons and pros bout parts.

[trism]

remember, dollar for dollar, a turbo build will be cheaper for the same amount of power than N/A

but N/A is more fun.

and no turbo lag

[Aza]

turbo lag is just foreplay ;)

and hey if u use a smaller turbo u dont get much lag anywya. i know my turbo civic had boost from the 3000 mark

even in the evo i get 22 psi by 3600 and once u are on boost through the gears u stay on boost till u back off. people really over exagerate turbo lag...

go drive ur car and see how quick u rev to 3-4000. most turbo setups will have full boost by then its only when ur using huge **** off turbos lag becomes a real issue.

reliability wise though NA is the way... but as mentioned alot harder to get the power out. way cheaper to build a good turbo setup and get more power. just needs the time put in to make it reliable

[rpm boy]

i'd just get b20 build. stay NA.
turbo, blah rofl, i'd jsut go buy a turbo car if turbo action, at the end of the day, its just an EG. >_< not saying nefing bad about EG.
like all said, what you want outta you're car, so yeah. b20 i say.

What do u mean its just an EG, An EG is probably the most modified non drift car in the world, which many are running under the 10sec mark in several countries around the world, the eg is a Institution to modifiers around the world... Just my 2 cents

[Aza]

think he is more talking about resale value...

u pour thousands into it and u get **** all back... sooo is it really worth it?

thats how some ppl would look at it anyway. the everyday joe no matter what u do to it would just look at it and go... its still a civic

[iwantvtec]

i dnt plan in selling my car. Prob give it to my little brother. so i dnt care bout resell value

[Gio]

can i be ur brother?

[iwantvtec]

sure thing =]

[trism]

wtf eg's have no resale value.

they are mostly 13-16 year old cars. people still want 6 grand for a breeze.

good luck paying six grand for a base model anything else when its 16 years old

[Limbo]

i think he means that he will never really get back what he put into it, which is true for any car.

you can spends tens of thousands moding it but end of the day your lucky to recover half of it back

[Limo]

fk dat'll b sweeet if u can show me how a turbo honda goes., hmmm... yer i've give him a buzz on the weekend maybe i can just talk 2 him on where to source parts and cons and pros bout parts.

yeh no probs, ill pm you my mobile.

i have a list of all my parts n prices somewhere, ill try and find it all. budget wise 8-10k will be heaps since when i was buying parts ~AU$1:US$0.75. i also got everyting in stainless steel and branded parts(highly reccommended)

at the end of the day, you know your not going to get your money back, but most of us dont think of the resale, its the enjoyment they bring :D

if you set it up right, lag isnt a prob. ive got a pretty big turbo (similar to a gt30) but yeh full boost @ ~3.7k n vtec @ ~4.5k

[MWAKU]

think he is more talking about resale value...

u pour thousands into it and u get **** all back... sooo is it really worth it?

thats how some ppl would look at it anyway. the everyday joe no matter what u do to it would just look at it and go... its still a civic

Yup.!

[trism]

but thats what im saying

the everyday joe sees its a civic and thinks omg vtec yo.

thats what i said before.

people want ****ing 6grand for 1.5l carby breezes coz they think shit yeah civic vtec!!

[iwantvtec]

hahahah CARBY Vtec yo~

[[ricer]]

so have you decided yet?
boost or b20?

[iwantvtec]

FI *****aaah~

[zpreme]

how mcuh would a b20 cost to build?

I got quoted 3k, drive in and out. Though that is me using my existing B18C7 head.

[iwantvtec]

it doesn't cost alot to build a b20. IT COST alot to buy a reliable b20 build. You gotta think that the blocks walls are quite thin and you might want to reinforce them.

[shadou]

I got quoted 3k, drive in and out. Though that is me using my existing B18C7 head.

where??

[iwantvtec]

ask andy from akmotorworks. He quoted me the same with my b16a head.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

having owned both a turbo b16a (top fuel setup) and a built B20 motor i can say both will deliver what you want.

A turbo b16a can deliver low 13s (depending on driver) in an eg civic hatch, similar times with a built b20 can be achieved.

Having owned both setups i would choose the Turbo B16A option. Its more fun to drive as well as the looks on peoples faces when you spool up next to them. B20 motor offers excellent response and torque. Both setups costed roughly 10k each.

[iwantvtec]

at the end of the day i think the b18vtir head pulls out the most compresssion with the b20. I think.

[rawr]

at the end of the day i think the b18vtir head pulls out the most compresssion with the b20. I think.

i hear it's the worst. The flow from a b16a head is supposedly alot better than the b18c2(dc2 vtir) head.

But the type R head (B18c7) owns all

This is just what i heard btw.

[destrukshn]

boost it.
lol.

[fatboyz39]

I got quoted 3k, drive in and out. Though that is me using my existing B18C7 head.

thats cheap. Wonder whats done to it?

If you want power turbo it.

[VTECMACHINE]

i hear it's the worst. The flow from a b16a head is supposedly alot better than the b18c2(dc2 vtir) head.

But the type R head (B18c7) owns all

This is just what i heard btw.


Really... I heard B16 head > B18 head. Even B18C7 (P72 head???)

[NightKids]

Yeah B16 more flowing...
B20 Turbo FTW!

[iwantvtec]

i also heard that the B20 weighs quite alot. And it will make the Eg understeer.

[shadou]

I don't see how a b20 setup could add that much more weight to induce more understeer. It's just the bottom end that get's changed and a couple pieces added I'd be more inclined to think a turbo setup would add more weight than a b20 conversion.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

i also heard that the B20 weighs quite alot. And it will make the Eg understeer.

myth...

[94dc2tegz]

ok

a b18c head will flow more than a b16a head but the differences are minimal it really depends on ur applications.

i'm building a b20 with my current dc2vtir and using that head.

and how can a b16a head flow more than a 1.8L engine? makes no sense or even better than the b18cr head? it's the same thing almost cept the b18cr has a mild port n' polish.

a b20 is basically a b18c bored out so y would it be heavier than a turbo setup wen u have to add the turbo and all the other chunks of metal to make it work.

[chauster]

NA is best. go b20 vtak

[JasonGilholme]

NA is best. go b20 vtak

:thumbdwn::thumbdwn:

nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[ZeForce]

NA is best. go b20 vtak

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

yehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[rpm boy]

Depends on the application

[chauster]

vtak is ftw amirite bois?

[Limbo]

vtec + boost = more fun

94dc2tegz - a b20 is generally a CRV bottom block, with a b16 head.
your talking about stroking your block, differnent concept

[Limbo]

p.S - DC2rs (B18c7) uses a b16a head, that has been ported & polished.

[trism]

ok

a b18c head will flow more than a b16a head but the differences are minimal it really depends on ur applications.

i'm building a b20 with my current dc2vtir and using that head.

and how can a b16a head flow more than a 1.8L engine? makes no sense or even better than the b18cr head? it's the same thing almost cept the b18cr has a mild port n' polish.

a b20 is basically a b18c bored out so y would it be heavier than a turbo setup wen u have to add the turbo and all the other chunks of metal to make it work.


you are not quote correct.

a b16 head can flow more than a 1.8l engine, because its the head, not the engine

its just the way shit is

now, the b20 is not the b18 bored out.

its a totally different motor with a totally different idea.

the b16 and b18 are built purposely to be the performance engine for sports cars. b18 for heavier integras, b16 for lighter civics. hence twin cam vtec yo

the b20 was designed only to be a torquey puller for the CRV. hence lack of vtak.

it is a totally different block with taller deck height, longer stroke, bigger bore, less compression.

the bores are diffrent and use an inserted sleeve...

[94dc2tegz]

ok, i know the b20 is a different engine but i was comparing more a turbo setup to a b20vtec setup weight differences

now, just for a healthy discussion's sake doesn't the output of a b16 head match that of the b18 head? if anything it gives a bit more up high hence why it was used for development into what we now know as the ITR

but stock for stock they have virtually the same output. if anything it flows better than a P73 head for it's size so in relativity yes it does flow better as it can achieve the same output for a smaller capacity engine.

now if u have them both port and polished properly which one would flow better?

most ppl will use a b16 head purely cuz they're easier to obtain and they cost less than a b18 head + it bolts straight upto ITR intake manifolds which is a bonus.