more power for sub

[tru3_k177]

hey guys....
i'm thinking of adding more power for my audio. sub in more particular...
any idea what is best done?
and some people say put another sub, other people say put another amplifier...
what would be best?

[adylim]

putting up another amplifier COULD help, it depends on how much watt your speakers and subs can take. For example, if the amp gives out 300 watt, and ur audio can only take 300, then that will be the max, if u put a more powerful amp in it, it will only destroy or damage your speakers and subs. If u want to improve your car audio system, putting in another sub wouldn't help if your amp can only amplify enough power for your sub for now and the speakers. So if you want to add another sub, most probably you would need to change your amp too. In conclusion, you would probably need to change your amp and also add another sub or change to a better sub. I would personally recommend RF(rockfords) they are good.

[euro_tr4sh]

disregaurd everything he just said, from that post i can safely say he knows next to nothing.... you say you want to add more power? by this you mean stronger bass im assuming, depending on the sub and amp your running you can go both ways add another sub or add a bigger amp, more power will give you more authority and control, another sub will make it louder (cos you got more cone area and its moving more air) the rule of thumb is- to make your system twice as loud (+3 db) double your cone area or double your power, but when you go down the doubling cone area path you will also need the power required to run that extra sub.... let me know what sub and amp your running and ill be able to help you alot better

oh and to adylim- im running a 2000rms DD mono block into a 1000rms IDMAX 12" sub...

[adylim]

So??? it might be because u had it on 4 or 8 ohm resistance....i don mind, i am just giving suggestions....to put 1000 watt to a 700 peak sub, try think in a electric circuit...a 2 watt bulb, if u put a 20 watt current thru it, wat will it do? become brighter, but aft sometime, burns....u are speeding up its life time..i don mind shutting up, but u can try his way if u wan...i don come in here to flame with ppl...or argue with any kid. all i can say is...u will end up with some burnt coils very soon if u put too much power to ur subs.

[solitz]

hey guys....
i'm thinking of adding more power for my audio. sub in more particular...
any idea what is best done?
and some people say put another sub, other people say put another amplifier...
what would be best?

before we go on what current setup do u have?
amp and sub? or amp for speaker and amp for sub?
do u have a budget?
do u want quality or just pure bass?

to me if ur amp is more powerful than ur componenets then MAKE SURE the GAIN/SENSITIVITY is set correctly then there should be no problem

[adylim]

exactly....and gain means the volume, if the volume is not turned up, then it wont burn ur voice coils....but wat euro thrash is saying is definitely misleading....everyone that have a sub in the car would turn up the volume for sure, but as long as no long journeys or cruises with volume up for long time, there wont be any big problems....

[euro_tr4sh]

So??? it might be because u had it on 4 or 8 ohm resistance....i don mind, i am just giving suggestions....to put 1000 watt to a 700 peak sub, try think in a electric circuit...a 2 watt bulb, if u put a 20 watt current thru it, wat will it do? become brighter, but aft sometime, burns....u are speeding up its life time..i don mind shutting up, but u can try his way if u wan...i don come in here to flame with ppl...or argue with any kid. all i can say is...u will end up with some burnt coils very soon if u put too much power to ur subs.

thats if you dont know what your doing.... iv seen over 10000rms put into a single 12" sub.... free air, belting out a continuous 20hz test tone... ive been running double the power into my sub for nearly 8 months now, sure any one could do it, but its people like you that would end up with the coils fused to the rest of the motor structure, and its all well and good you giving suggestions, but it just seems you dont really know waht your talking about and really not helping the guy at all in the long run

gains arn't your volume buddy... im sorry, but i work at a specialist car audio store for a living, your last 3 posts have made it quite clear you dont know as much as you seem to think you do, you can blow a 500w rms sub with as little as 10w rms... just because your putting over the advertised amount of power into a sub doesnt mean its going to cook... oh, and your light buld analergy.... apples and oranges (read- fail)

[adylim]

ok my bad...so i don know much, but u really shdnt say or comment on any other ppl's suggestion, just give yours and like try talk politely man...not going to straight saying ppl don know anything....btw i live just 2 min walk from where u work, and i went to audio art for some suggestions too last week i think...

[euro_tr4sh]

sorry man... im tired, cranky... mainly tired, car audio is my passion and i get a bit uh... passionate about it sometimes haha, i apologise for my bluntness

[adylim]

lol...no harm done.....pm sent to you, check ur pm inbox

[rice_civic]

why is it that people who work at stereo shops insist on reminding people of the fact every time they get the chance. any time you go into one they get wanky about how much they know and get them on the internet and its "i work at a stereo shop. your wrong!"

short answer. the easiest way to get more out of the sub is to put a bigger amp on it. just dont go overboard

[arverson]

woah.. lots of bad/wrong info in this thread..

tru3_k177, maybe try a ported box if your sub isnt currently in one - make sure it can be run in a ported box tho.

if its already in one then id say its time to upgrade to a more efficient sub that can take more power, then amp - depending on amp..

what gear do you currently have??

what box??

what car??

have you deadened or sound-proofed your car??

how much space are you willing to give up??

budget??

[solitz]

woah.. lots of bad/wrong info in this thread..


yea just lots of misguided infomation, but there are too many variables atm coz we dont know what your current setup is and if u do have a budget or not

[trism]

before i start, ive got a correction



more power will give you more authority and control, another sub will make it louder (cos you got more cone area and its moving more air) the rule of thumb is- to make your system twice as loud (+3 db) double your cone area or double your power, but when you go down the doubling cone area path you will also need the power required to run that extra sub

twice as loud is not perceived as +3db. twice as loud is +10db

so 20db will sound twice as loud as 10db. 30db will sound twice as loud as 20db. 140db will sound twice as loud as 130db.

the +3b rule is something alltogether. that comes from doubling power or cone area. so i might have a 12inch sub, running off 1000wrms, and it might make 130db. if i double to power, i will theoretically be making 133db.

real world testing however puts the figure at aroun 2.5db, not 3.

but on to the story.

oh dear.

oohhhhh dear

too many people trying to talk about something they know very little about.

first things first.

What sub and amp do you currently have, what sort of box is the sub in, and what are you after? are you after louder bass? lower bass? a combination of both?

i suggest that if you have any interest in car audio, you head over to www.mobileelectronicsaustralia.com

australias biggest car audio website.

[arverson]

yer trism i was gonna correct that before but.. theres alot of other stuff to correct too.

tru3, basically if you add that second sub and use the same amp then you WONT gain TWICE the amount of bass.. only roughly 3dbs or 1 THIRD of what you have atm, keep that in mind.

[euro_tr4sh]

oh yeh, my bad... and its 9db... i got my 2 facts meshed into one there, it was late, geimme a break :P

arverson- thats if he matches the power that the first sub is getting, hes doubling the cone area but halving the power to each sub, putting him back to square one.... and another thing, this double power, double cone are rule is if we were in a perfect world... so it doesnt necessarily stand true every time

[trism]

exactly. if you simplyy add another sub, it wont do anything. you need to add more power.

and yes also, car audio is a world of dimishing returns. in both SQ and SPL (believe me, i have played in both)

[tru3_k177]

my amp is alpine mrp-m200

Alpine MRP-M200 Specifications
Features:
General-Amplifiers

1 Channel Operation
Adjustable Crossover (LP)
Bass EQ Circuit
Bass Engine®
Both sides Terminal Layout
Continuously Adjustable Gain Control
Darlington Bi-Polar Outputs
Discrete Pre-Amp Stage
Gold Plated Insert Power Terminals
Gold Plated Power Screw Terminals
Gold Plated RCA Input Connectors
Gold Plated Speaker Screw Terminals
MOSFET Power Supply
MultiMode
No Current Limiting
Noise Elimination Coil
Phase Selector
STAR Circuitry
Solid Copper Bus Bars
Speaker Level Inputs
Subsonic Filter
Top Mounted LED Power Indicator
Tuned Bass EQ
Specs:
General-Amplifiers

Dividing Network : 50Hz-200Hz LP (18dB/oct)
Dividing Network : Variable 50Hz - 200Hz LP (18dB/oct)
Foot Print (WxHxD)in : 9” x 2-9/32” x 9”
Foot Print (WxHxD)mm : 250mm x 58mm x 230mm
Foot Sink (WxHxD) : 250mm x 58mm x 230mm
Frequency Reponse : 20Hz-200Hz (+0,-3dB)
Heat Sink (WxHxD) : 230mm x 58mm x 230mm
Heat Sink (WxHxD)in : 9” x 2-9/32” x 9”
Heat Sink (WxHxD)mm : 230mm x 58mm x 230mm
Input Impedance : 10k ohm
Input Sensitivity (for rated power) : 0.2 V to 4.0V
Input Sensitivity (for rated power) : 200mV ~ 4.0V
Power Requirements : 14.4V DC (11V to 16V)
Signal to Noise (S/N) : 100dBA (referenced to rated power)
Slew Factor : greater than 5
Speaker Impedance : 4 or 2 ohms (Mono)
Speaker Impedance : 4 or 2 ohms(stereo), 4 ohms(bridged)
Weight : 2.6kg(5lbs. 12oz.)
Weight : 2.8kg(6lbs. 3oz.)
MAX Power (at 14.4V,EIAJ)

Per channel into 2 ohms : 300W x 1
RMS Power (at 12V,20Hz-200Hz)

Per channel into 2 ohms : 150W x 1 (0.3% THD)
Per channel into 4 ohms : 100W x 1 (0.08% THD)
RMS Power (at 14.4V,20Hz-200Hz)

Per channel into 2 ohms : 200W x 1 (0.3% THD)
Per channel into 4 ohms : 150W x 1 (0.08% THD)
RMS Power (at 14.4V,20Hz-20kHz)

Into 2 ohms : 200W x 1 (0.3%)
Per channel into 4 ohms : 150W x 1 (0.08% THD)

my sub is 2X alpine 12 inch sws-1241D

Bumped Backplate
Compound Radius Curve Pole Geometry
Custom High-Strength Basket
Designed and Engineered in the USA
Dual Progressive Nomex® Spiders with Integrated Tinsel Leads with Edge Control
Dual Stacked Magnets
Dual Voice Coil Design
Extra Length Extended Pole
Heat Transfer Plate
Heavy Duty 8ga. Push Terminals
High Excursion 3/4" Santoprene Surround
High Strength Brass Voice Coil Bobbin
Kevlar Reinforced Pulp Cone
Magnetically Optimized Motor Structure (Pat. Pend.)
Oversized Parabolic Dustcap
Specs:
General-Subwoofers

Diaphragm Material : Kevlar Reinforced Pulp
Magnetic Weight : 64oz.
Mounting Depth (top mount) : 164mm (6-1/2")
Mounting Diameter (top mount) : 274mm (10-3/4")
Recommended Box Types : Sealed/Bandpass
Recommended Sealed Box Volume : 0.8 – 1.5 cu. ft.
Spider Material : Nomex
Voice Coil Diameter : 38mm
Power Handling

Power Handling Capacity (Peak) : 600W
Power Handling Capacity (RMS) : 200W
Thiel Small Parameters

Coil Height (Hvc) : 32.6mm
Cone Area (Sd) : 490.87 sq. cm
D.C.Coil Resistance (Re) : 3.6ohm + 3.6ohm
Electrical Q (Qes) : 0.72
Equivalent Suspension Stiffness (Vas) : 65 liters(2.3cu.ft.)
Free Air Resonance (Fs) : 31Hz
Frequency Response : 26Hz - 1kHz
Gap Height (Hag) : 10mm
Impedance (Nominal) : 4 ohm + 4ohm
Inductance (Le) : 2.89mH at 1kHz (1.09mH at 20kHz)
Linear Excursion (X linear) : 13.5mm
Maximum Excursion (X peak) : 27mm
Mechanical Excursion (Peak-to-Peak) : 42mm
Mechanical Q (Qms) : 8.98
Sensitivity : 89 dB/W/M
Total Loudspeaker Q (Qts) : 0.67

head unit is kenwood dpx-5500m
i cant find anything on this thing.
i got it with the car and i think it's imported from japan as i can't get a local radio station anywhere in oz.

plus another thing... how venerable are subwoovers to shocks?
i recently had a crash and i think the sub took quite a bit of shock from the impact but the casing is not damaged or scratched. i keep it in my trunk. wil the sub and the amp be damaged?

[trism]

no they will not be damaged, unless they took a direct hit from something. if they were jsut shaken around, then thats ok.

id look at getting this (http://www.alpine.com.au/products/product.asp?modelID=373) amp. 1000wrms, so you will have plenty of room to upgrade subs in teh future. should also be able to knock a hundred bucks off the price

[AzKik-R]

Here's a suggestion
up-grade your system to 2x soundstream r1 series (1000w each) and run them at single ohm, and power them from 1 soundstream amp 2.5kw
or you could pick up 2 x FUsion NV-12's also 1000w each.

need more???? get the 15's

need more??? get 2 x 15's and 2 x 12's

need more??? then add 1 more of each.

If that's not enough, then get 2 kicker L7's the 18" ones they're about 10kw each.
hehehehehe, and if that's not enough then you could always get
6 cap's, 10 amp's, and 1x mtx jackhammer.
that SHOULD do it.

Most people will stop after they have properly installed/tuned 2 x 1000w subs.
if you can put 2 12's in the 1 box, ported, then you'll go deaf

I had my new 1000w NV12 running off my new soundstream 1500d picaso & 2 x kenwood subs running off explode amp (from supercheaps, the subs say 1000w, but when i opened it up, they're only 200w). all 3 subs running had ear plugs in and had a wicked headache after 2 songs, and i have had loud cars for about 6 years now. this was loud loud!!! i could feel my inner ear-drum vibrating after that. so i decided to take the 2 kenwoods out.

[euro_tr4sh]

wow... i think you the biggest tool to post in this thread yet... run 2 different sized subs? are you on drugs? and hows a cap gonna make the system louder? let alone 6? and the kickers your "trying" to talk about are the solo X 18's.... theyre more like 4000rms, stop talking about car audio, your making jesus cry

[AzKik-R]

wow... i think you the biggest tool to post in this thread yet... run 2 different sized subs? are you on drugs? and hows a cap gonna make the system louder? let alone 6? and the kickers your "trying" to talk about are the solo X 18's.... theyre more like 4000rms, stop talking about car audio, your making jesus cry

have you ever heard 2x12's running in the same car as 2x15's????
ps. i know everyone in a shop will say "you can't mix sub sizes" like it's illegal.
go try it out, and then come back and tell me how much of a tool you are for thinking that i dont know what i'm talking about.
the 15's obviously get a much lower note then the 12's but the 12's have much more punch then the 15's
is there something wrong with having the best of both worlds???
The idea behind forum's is that you can hear what people have actually tried, and if it works or not...
the idea is not to go round telling people they dont know jack shit about anything because you personally dis-agree on a particular aspect. it you've never heard 2 x 12's and 2 x 15's in one car then save it so you dont look like such an aaaassss when you find out you're wrong.
You'll probably also tell me that i can't run 2x200w 12" from one amp and 1x 1000w 12" sub running from a 1000w amp...... but that works bloody awesome too.

btw kicker state in their book 5000w rms 10,000 max, so lick my hairy nuts there dip shit

and you seam to make the 'un-stated claim' that you're the shit when it comes to car audio, hmmm perhaps you have not see a jackhammer??? i dare you to dry run one without a cap. you ****in idiot. what's gonna happen when you try run it without a cap. answer that one if you dare

[euro_tr4sh]

first off... no i havn't, never met any one that stupid personally , if you need to install different sized subs to cover the frequency spectrums you are in the wrong game, im not "the sh*t" when it comes to car audio, you just sound like a complete f*cking idiot.... 10,000max, woop de doo... doesnt mean shit, just like when you opened up you "1000" watt kenwoods to discover a massive 200rms power handeling, and yes, ive seen a jack hammer, theyre nothing special, over rated and over priced... aimed at people that know **** all and think cos its big it must be the best, just like you, and why on earth do you have it in your head you need a cap to run it? what th f*ck are you on? you ever seen an spl car (a proper one) with caps? im talkin cars walled with 4 18's capable of handleing well over 5,000 rms, running in excess of 20,000 rms, not max... rms, honestly, your just further reinforcing the fact that you abviously know **** all with every post you make, i do this for a living and id be glad to throw up some pics of cars i'v built/building, get a f*cking idea you clown, oh and if you run it without a cap, your lights will probably dim alot, but some one running one of those woofers hase the correct set up, ie. anough power and plenty of ancilary batteries/battcaps (do you know what they are?) so they would have no need for a cap, or 6 haha.... but on that note, would you like to explain what would happen if you ran one with out a cap? or why you'd need a cap to run one? keeping in mind a cap has nothing to do with the subwoofer itself but more so the linearity of power delivery to the amplifier, dip sh*t...

[AzKik-R]

you so full of shit!!!
first you say i know absolutely nothing about car audio. well, let me see, i've done 5 installs, not bad considering i dont work in a shop, they all kick ass. sooo there goes your first remark.
then you dismiss my remark about the new kicker subs saying 10,000 max is nothing, rms = 5000w. and then you start bragging about cars running 5000w subs??? wtf are you on man? you think im the one on drugs?
and then you say the jackhammer is "nothing special" hmmm, i think compared to your idmax??? i can bet you whatever you like when you stand your sub next to the jackhammer, more people will stand by the jackhammer.
you state that they are overpriced. well ****wit, dont forget to mention the weight of one of these things, not to mention the cost, i think we can all safely assume that you know nothing about car audio.
and why dont you do us all a favor, show us all the pics of your cars that YOU have done. and please, let us know the name of the shop that you work at. hmmm, you probably work the cash register, and make the boss his coffee.
now i cant really be assed goin on about this, obviously you've scared everyone away from even attempting to contribute. but why doesn't someone ask my good friend dr. google, and search for sound-off cars
since we dont have all day to argue about this just open say the first 5 links, if you dont find anything in there about cars running different size subs then i will confess that i know absolutely nothing about car audio.
However... should you find something about it, then you can just sit the rest of this forum out.
and for the record, yes, sound off cars run either more then 1 truck battery with a massive alternator, or they run cap's
or any combination.

[euro_tr4sh]

dude, your a f*ckin idiot, thats all i gotta say, i cant be bothered arguing with you any more, ill leave you with a nice friendly go f*ck youself, you really are a moron

first ones my car, second is a rav 4 i did and the 3rd is a rodeo thats still being build, could we see some pics of your installs?

[adylim]

why the hell are u arguing azkik??? I know it as a fact that euro is working at perth's best audio shop, its name is audio art, if you want to know? come over to perth and have a look at it. They do a lot of jobs and are recently closed cause of having too much cars to do, so not accepting anymore business. And i think they areere is all nice blokes there in audioart. And there is no point arguing over who is better and obviously euro is working for installation for 1 of the best shop in perth, we all know who is better. If he don know anything i believe yanddy won't employ him. i believe we should stop flamming in this thread. its becoming childish.

[tru3_k177]

eeerrrmmm...
guys...
i created this thread so that i can get some opinion not just from myself and some places that said their products are the best...
so please so flaming and quality opinion please
thank you for those who have given me advise in the previous pages... but i'm still looking for the best that suit my needs
thank you

[AzKik-R]

No worries, i was only offering my opinion and my suggestions here before mr trash started with his shit.
you can use 2 different size subs if you like, Yes it is against the norm but it still works. i was watching tokyo drift today, and what do ya know, some of the cars on there have different size subs.
and mr Trash has a Cap installed in his own car, so his comments on not using a cap dont actually stand.

and I'm not a moron, as he outlined. :D
Ps. Those are really nice installs.

[tron07]

If space and money is not an issue, I would run a nice 15" like Mcintosh and a pair 10".

15" for the low sub bass XO at 60hz and 10" band pass at 40hz-100hz, then the mids will take over from there on. 15" would be at the back and 10" at the front or kicks.... 10" would be probably be a slim sub in order to fit the front. Probably the new JL...

If you havent seen it before, it doenst means its not nice or the person who wants it is a fool....