Rear Camber Arm + Trailing Arm Bush

[dsp26]

Quick Question,

I installed rear adjustable camber arms in the rear and had had my car aligned and everything was all good but the bushing on the chassis side of the mounting shat itself after around 6months.

I'm going to have to get another set but my question is, does having a semi rooted trailing arm bush cause this?

Thanks!!

[fatboyz39]

Its just the usual wear and tear. Upgrade to the fully filled in ones...

[bennjamin]

a semi rooted or fully rooted trailing arm bush CAN advance other wear and tear in your rear suspension - such as camber , TOE etc. Get them replaced with OEM or energy solids.
Also your handling can be adversely affected from old worn trailing arm bushes. Under braking or lift off the car can become twitchy and unsettled (real life experience from track work with 15 year old bushes)

[string]

New trailing arm bushes make an incredible difference to the way the car feels. It should be one of the first suspension mods you do on an old Honda. Mine cost USD$104 from kingmotorsports.com.

[dsp26]

thanks a heap fellas all i needed to know.

i have to remove them trailing arm and have those solid ones pressed in huh? i'll try solid filling them first while on the car.

too bad i can't rep any of you coz of recent ones :p

[fatboyz39]

while your at it might as well change all the other bushes in the rear.

[omgzilla]

You'd have to take off all the rear brake assembly and stuff too, yeah? ...in order to get the trailing arm out.

[bennjamin]

You'd have to take off all the rear brake assembly and stuff too, yeah? ...in order to get the trailing arm out.

yup. Take it all off. disconnect the brake line , hang it up. then the handbrake line + pull it thru. Then disconnect the arm compensator (toe adjustment) and then the bush bolts x 2 . Then take off the upper+lower LCA connections and pull the arm off. Press the bearing out , press the new one it etc

[andiiso]

in my civic vtir i recently put new trailing arm bushes in and i just took the the 2 17mm bolts holding the trailing arm bush out and also the 14mm bolt at the end of the trailing arm (i think its toe adjustment one .. well it had lil markings on it etc so i marked where it was bfore taking it out) and lil bolts holding the handbrake line .. unclipped the abs sensors etc .. and lowered the control arm down (wid a block of wood between chassis and control arm to hold it down then bashed the trailing arm bush out wid a hammer from the inside (under the car) hitting it left right left right lolz till it came out .. then slowly (meaning hard hard but gotta be very accurate .. and patient lolz) hammered the new trailing arm bushes bak in from the outside going evenly on top bottom left and right till it was nice n flush and where it was sposed to be, of course being very very careful of stretching or damaging the abs sensors when either hitting out old ones or putting new ones in.

One more thing is the trailing arm bushes have "lwr" or something on it and u gotta have LWR on the bottom of the trailing arm bush when going in .. i again just marked where the old one originally sat and then lined it up wid new one.

mite be a few ppl who dun agree wid me doing so but yer just thought i mite add wat i did on mine like last week and mayb itll help someone in some way lolz

[dsp26]

thanks fellas...

just spent the whole night solid filling the trailing arm bushes while still on the car... what a royal pain in the arse.. i snapped my only 2 of those sealant squeezer thingies coz it was so cold and hard.

also re-installed the oem upper control arm... see how the bushes hold before i bother getting some adjustables again... what a waste :/ i guess i'll just solid fill those later too....

[vinnY]

attacked it with sikaflex?
been thinking about doing mine but it won't dry in time since its a daily driver :(

[dsp26]

attacked it with sikaflex?
been thinking about doing mine but it won't dry in time since its a daily driver :(

yep!!! good ole Sikaflex 252.

the pain in the arse part is scrubbing the dirt off the bushings with a toothbrush and drying it then forcing the cold sika in the gaps. this whole jobs is best left on a warm saturday morning and left all weekend ready to use on Monday haha

but yeah mines DD, left it to dry while flat on the ground in its natural position... gonna give it 2 days to dry and just borrow the parents camry :p

[string]

You don't have to disconnect the brake lines, just remove the caliper.
You don't need a press, a big hammer works just fine.

Take the arm off the car. There are maybe 12 bolts max to get it totally undone. It's very easy to align again there is no reason not to take it off completely.

If you are lowered it's a great time to clock the bushing. Just draw up a straight line onto the trailing arm following the alignment of the inner part of the bush (when on the ground at normal ride height), then you can just install the new one at the same angle.

I don't think filling it up will work very well. The bushing is meant to move in some directions and resist others.

[dsp26]

You don't have to disconnect the brake lines, just remove the caliper.
You don't need a press, a big hammer works just fine.

Take the arm off the car. There are maybe 12 bolts max to get it totally undone. It's very easy to align again there is no reason not to take it off completely.

If you are lowered it's a great time to clock the bushing. Just draw up a straight line onto the trailing arm following the alignment of the inner part of the bush (when on the ground at normal ride height), then you can just install the new one at the same angle.

I don't think filling it up will work very well. The bushing is meant to move in some directions and resist others.

Thanks mate... you made the pressing/hammering sound easy :p

i'll see how the sika holds up, otherwise will definitely hit up those bushes.

I only saw one set on the site, the Mugen ones, and are like ~US$120.. how much was shipping for a pair?

[fatboyz39]

Thanks mate... you made the pressing/hammering sound easy :p

i'll see how the sika holds up, otherwise will definitely hit up those bushes.

I only saw one set on the site, the Mugen ones, and are like ~US$120.. how much was shipping for a pair?

i recommend noltec suspension. We got a set on our car and works very well.

[dsp26]

i recommend noltec suspension. We got a set on our car and works very well.

Noltec at Thornleigh?

I had a set made by them before for the SR20... the blue-ish/clear tinge? They are strong but you have to give em your mounts to fill and they do em in batches every 2 weeks... too big a downtime :/

[vinnY]

you can use tink's (http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell/RTAinstall.html) guide to do the rear trailing arms

if the sikaflex doesn't hold up and you end up getting those mounts, let me know :p

[fatboyz39]

Noltec at Thornleigh?

I had a set made by them before for the SR20... the blue-ish/clear tinge? They are strong but you have to give em your mounts to fill and they do em in batches every 2 weeks... too big a downtime :/

NO need to give them your bushes. When i went to buy em they had it already in stock.

[TODA AU]

NO need to give them your bushes. When i went to buy em they had it already in stock.
Actually you can't any more, Cause they're gone...
This isn't gospel, but I think the company was sold off & most of the equipment etc went to Nolethane & Whiteline.
(If you can find a set of these bushes though, they're a good thing)

[bennjamin]

Actually you can't any more, Cause they're gone...
This isn't gospel, but I think the company was sold off & most of the equipment etc went to Nolethane & Whiteline.
(If you can find a set of these bushes though, they're a good thing)

They used to be @ thornleigh ? Yup gone. They do have bushes in circulation in Super cheap autos still tho.
If anyone can find some local decent bushes like these let us all know

[fatboyz39]

DOH.... oh wells....

[dsp26]

oh wells... i know its only been a day but the sika252 is holding up well... HUGE difference!!!

twitchy-ness and random rear bouncing gone while tackling wallgrove road roundabouts spritedly for those who know it :p

i'll report back on how the sika held after 1 week then 1 month. If it doesn't hold over a month then i'm getting the solid bushes.

Won't be getting new rear adjustable upper control arms... held those and oem side by side and the camber length is seemingly identical, i'm on ITR springs anyway...

Thanks for all the help.. all!!! :) at least now i know how to remove the bushes if i need to.

[bennjamin]

since its likely you squirted it in either side and let it cure - chances are it will simply "fall out" over time. A temp. fix.

Get the bushes Ron....$50 shipped on US ebay...im getting a set and installing with a mate in the next few weeks if ya wanna come in on it for DIY fun

[dsp26]

since its likely you squirted it in either side and let it cure - chances are it will simply "fall out" over time. A temp. fix.

Get the bushes Ron....$50 shipped on US ebay...im getting a set and installing with a mate in the next few weeks if ya wanna come in on it for DIY fun

linky!!!

i like how it feels now and i know your right hahaha.. will fall out in a month

[vinnY]

^^ linky!!
split the shipping with ya dsp :p

[bennjamin]

ill wait until he gets his on thurs-fri , then order and post up links here. Its a US ebay seller.

[dsp26]

ill wait until he gets his on thurs-fri , then order and post up links here. Its a US ebay seller.

either way i didn't realise it was that cheap... i'm gonna go search now :p

vinnY, i'll have a lookski first, will let you know...

[string]

For a part that will last you years, you'd be mad to choose the energy suspension poly bushes over the OEM item. Bind city, population you. They are twice as expensive for a reason.

[bennjamin]

results speak louder than your opinion - i know 5 people personally that have them , 3 longer than a few years with track use etc. Swear by them.

Altho feel free to link us with some examples of binding !

[string]

My point is that it is blatantly obvious that HONDA know something that ENERGY SUSPENSION don't. Look at the design of the two bushes. The energy suspension bushing has no compliance in any axis except in one where it has complete compliance and the OEM has little.

Just because a filled in RTA bush "works" better than a torn as shit one, doesn't mean that it's as good as the OEM part. Any bushing design which attempts to keep it's natural state will work better than an OEM bushing with it's shaft barely connected to it's sleeve.

Logic speaks louder than anything else. Use your head!!

For an example of binding, I invite you to your own car. Take off the rear wheel, remove the rear spring assembly and move your rear suspension through it's entire range of movement and watch how the rear trailing arm centre shaft moves relative to the sleeve. Yes, it moves in ways that a solid polyeurethane will either bind, or provide an unpredictable load.

If you want to get serious about your trailing arm bushing, get a spherical with sliding shaft (like the ES). The energy suspension RTA bush will just bastardize the way the rear of your car feels.

[bennjamin]

I know this and know a solid bush restricts movement compared to a OEM bush. I know it restricts movement to X and Y as opposed to X, Y , Z planes.

I also only hear real world examples thru multiple driving situations and they have never "binded" - run dry of lube and squeaked alittle , but never binded or produced sudden change in suspension characteristics.

Please , as requested before find a real life example or two of "binding" - via honda-tech or whatever. Its for all our benefit :)

[string]

I know this and know a solid bush restricts movement compared to a OEM bush. I know it restricts movement to X and Y as opposed to X, Y , Z planes.

The OEM bushing provides stiffness where it is meant to be stiff, and compliance where movement is required.
The ES bushing provides little compliance everywhere except in the single axis that it requires stiffness. What do you think happens when you try to twist the centre shaft (i.e. not push/pull). BINDING. Jack up the rear of your car and draw me a side view picture of what the centre shaft does relative to the casing. If you agree that it does not stay centred the entire travel then you are agreeing that the polyeurethane is either binding or providing compliance where it shouldn't be.


I also only hear real world examples thru multiple driving situations and they have never "binded" - run dry of lube and squeaked alittle , but never binded or produced sudden change in suspension characteristics.

Are these the same people who swear by it? How do they know their bushings aren't binding? How do they know that their RTA bush isn't binding causing unnatural deflection in other rear bushings to compensate for the lack of compliance where needed. There is no hard and fast rule that says a binding bushing will cause instant 360 spins. Everything makes a subtle difference, and steering feel and the linearity of it's response is where the OEM bushing shines.


Please , as requested before find a real life example or two of "binding" - via honda-tech or whatever. Its for all our benefit :)
See above.

[bennjamin]

No point arguing stating the same things over ~ let me reword if it pleases.

I have friends that are mechanically minded (track cars often and DIY with cars) and have had no issues with them over years of useage.

[dsp26]

string.. i understand your logic with the binding as 'bushes' after all are supposed to flex to a certain degree, for example the front fork balljoints.

but why would energy suspension create the hyperflex master bushing kit? i've wanted this kit for years on every car i've had but could not afford installation.. through those years of reading and research i have never come across any negatives or failures.

[bennjamin]

negatives = causes vibration to be transferred thru into the cabin. Reduced ride comfort.

[dsp26]

negatives = causes vibration to be transferred thru into the cabin. Reduced ride comfort.

except that as most will get it from solid engine mounts first anyway.

i mean detrimental effects of solid suspension bushings all around (hyperflex kit) keeping in mind the current binding topic.

[fatboyz39]

look at these. Very similar to noltec at half the cost.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1010787.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1010788.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1010789.jpg
The whole bushing kit, i.e most of the suspension bushings will cos about 300US landed.

[string]

Wow they look great! Do they have the rta bushing available separately?

[dsp26]

look at these. Very similar to noltec at half the cost.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1010787.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1010788.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1010789.jpg
The whole bushing kit, i.e most of the suspension bushings will cos about 300US landed.

yup saw those on eBay too... theres a slightly cheaper one i'll look into, the Megan racing one... i emailed them about shipping.

but this one has the cheapest shipping i can find:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Megan-Civic-92-93-94-95-96-00-Rear-Trailing-Arms-Bush_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42609QQihZ006QQite mZ160234450050QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

good info and suggestions in this thread!!:thumbsup:

[bennjamin]

http://stores.ebay.com.au/Upgrade-Automotive_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amewaQ3amesstQQtZk m

[bennjamin]

just a thought -


hey mate, hope you are well

my RTA bushes are fine, i used black (graphite impregnated) ES bushes.

the times i have NOT noticed any *issues* include:

doing 190km/h around turn 1 at eastern creek, doing 145km/h over the dogleg at oran park and doing 7km/h parking my car.

anyone who talks of binding issues might wanna check the Honda manual for torque specs and proper suspension installation proceedures...

please use a Honda manual to supplement my DIY overview...

best of luck...

david..

[fatboyz39]

what is RTA? or binding?

[bennjamin]

what is RTA? or binding?

read thru this thread noob.

RTA = rear trailing arm bush
binding = The term "binding" describes a suspension that does not move smoothly through the operating range. Binding causes dramatic changes in wheel rate (http://www.elephantracing.com/notes/suspensionterms.htm) as the suspension compresses. Understeer / oversteer tendencies shift rapidly, making handling unpredictable. Ride quality and road grip suffer.

http://www.elephantracing.com/techtopic/binding.htm

[fatboyz39]

read thru this thread noob.

RTA = rear trailing arm bush
binding = The term "binding" describes a suspension that does not move smoothly through the operating range. Binding causes dramatic changes in wheel rate (http://www.elephantracing.com/notes/suspensionterms.htm) as the suspension compresses. Understeer / oversteer tendencies shift rapidly, making handling unpredictable. Ride quality and road grip suffer.

http://www.elephantracing.com/techtopic/binding.htm


thanks Ben.

string: I can ask the seller if you would like a set.

[nd55]

> Ride quality and road grip suffer

This thread follows one on Honda-tech some time ago with equal numbers of voices in the yay and nay camps.

The issue wasn't ride quality, but a tendency to snap oversteer at the limit of suspension travel and (I think) some instability under hard braking.

Daily driving was fine.


The Energy Suspension RTA is a Poly Bush only.
You burn out the old one and re-use the center pin and metal shell.

Re-using the center pin means the poly bush has to slide on a rough surface which was never meant to do this.

The Prothane poly bush comes as a complete replacement, poly bush, outer metal shell and center pin.

There are better designed RTAs out there.

Hardrace and even sperical bearing products. I think Noltec improved on the Prothane design a bit, but have never seen one.

[dsp26]

since its likely you squirted it in either side and let it cure - chances are it will simply "fall out" over time. A temp. fix.

Get the bushes Ron....$50 shipped on US ebay...im getting a set and installing with a mate in the next few weeks if ya wanna come in on it for DIY fun


Benny!! ended up finding an oem set on ebay for a bargain price of $60 for x2... going to solid fill these ones properly... my last set was full of sand with the rubbers actually torn and a bad poly fill job lol

can you help me install?

[bennjamin]

for the OEM set you need a press to get the old out , and new ones back in. Not hard to get out ross...

[STiR]

a semi rooted or fully rooted trailing arm bush CAN advance other wear and tear in your rear suspension - such as camber , TOE etc. Get them replaced with OEM or energy solids.
Also your handling can be adversely affected from old worn trailing arm bushes. Under braking or lift off the car can become twitchy and unsettled (real life experience from track work with 15 year old bushes)

This is very true. Even with high end coilovers (TODA FIGHTEX), my shot RTA and camber kit inner bushes (common problem with skunk2?) caused me to have a high speed spin under braking with only slight steering angle. Also backing off gently in a high speed bend is very, very scary. Please change your bushes if they are bad...safety first (and performance comes with it!)

[dsp26]

Hi All,

Just thought i'd report in.. bought some "OEM replacements" from www.budgetparts.com.au (http://www.budgetparts.com.au)

I purchase x2 @ ~$85 delivered and they were better than I expected... their solid filled rubber.. not solid filled urethane.. it comes as a whole assembly.

Will post pics tonight... new rubber smells like a stepped on cockroach though.. stinks!! :/

***EDIT***
here tis:
http://budgetparts.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=48

http://budgetparts.com.au/images/Trailing%20bush.jpg

[dsp26]

and heres the centre of the actual item (camera fone):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/Maintenance/DSC03572.jpg

[vinnY]

find me a big enough piece of pipe ron and you can come over to use my press :p
i need to find a tube big enough to do my own :(
afaik the tube needs to be able 79-80mm OD

[dsp26]

find me a big enough piece of pipe ron and you can come over to use my press :p
i need to find a tube big enough to do my own :(
afaik the tube needs to be able 79-80mm OD

dammit the only thing i can think off is do a combination of 2 things previously suggested (to accomplish completely other things :p)

- hammer the stock ones out
- burn or cut the rubber out
- then we'll have the oem ring remaining to press the new ones with.. what you needed it for right?

you game vin?


also i noticed the one i posted above is an exact replica of the one fatboyz posted in #37 except the one i got uses rubber instead of polyurethane.

don't really wanna fork out $80+ for a truck size ratchet piece lol

[vinnY]

pressing the new ones in isn't the problem, it's getting the old ones out which is the mystery

[dsp26]

well theres the suggestion at post#9 to hammer em out.. but mine are so shot that the pin will just break off the rubber.

last time i had this issue with an old engine mount in another car was:

- cut the rubber out
- hacksaw the ring in 2 spots 1cm apart, making sure not to damage the mount
- hammer that piece out with scredriver
- as a result of the gap the remaining ring was easier to push out
- press the new ones in...

[vinnY]

oh well taking a trip to bunnings soon because i need a cheater bar
will take a look to see if i can use something to press out the bushings with

[dsp26]

i already checked bunnings for piping and they got nada in that size
exhaust shops won't have 80mm either...

^^^already checked those coz i needed some 80mm pvc piping that i broke at home for the water tank route... ended up using 3in exhaust pipe and couplers to fix it :p

just checked the shed and garage and i got nothin....

[vinnY]

doesn't have to be round :)

[dsp26]

i have 3in length of 76mm/3in aluminium and possibly a steel item left over from my custom cai...

can probably hammer it into a slight oval to cover the required 80mm??

[vinnY]

okay so i didn't find anything at bunnings
i think the cai piping would probably be a bit thin and just crease
will have a dig around and see what i find

[dsp26]

unless you wanna come over my house and do it.. my local mech (5mins away) will do $10 for each press... so $40 each car... beats paying the $200 pedders quoted.

we just need to remove both trailing arms off one car at a time and use the free car to drive to mech

[andiiso]

well theres the suggestion at post#9 to hammer em out.. but mine are so shot that the pin will just break off the rubber.

last time i had this issue with an old engine mount in another car was:

- cut the rubber out
- hacksaw the ring in 2 spots 1cm apart, making sure not to damage the mount
- hammer that piece out with scredriver
- as a result of the gap the remaining ring was easier to push out
- press the new ones in...


yo man, hammer it side to side, like DONT hammer it on the middle pin thing that bolts to chassis, hammer it on the sides like left side right side left side etc from the inside of the car but if only cost you 40 bux per car for press and just some nuts n bolts for LCA to come out may aswell save the trouble, cos without a hoist the hammering thing mite be difficult lol

[vinnY]

i guess i can sacrifice $20 to get someone to push it out for me and i can take the arm home and push it the new bush back in at a new clocked angle
will let you know soon ron ;)

[vinnY]

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1969/bushoutrl8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

*flexes* (http://au.gamespot.com/users/IC3_MAST3R/video_player?id=d3Ywwzf95b8PszfZ)

[dsp26]

^^video makes me laff!!

done it already or someone elses?

[vinnY]

had one of those genius toilet moments(great idea while peeing)

decided to head outside and throw my trailing arm on the press and eventually got the bushing out
used the bushing as the 'hammer' so to speak.. slowly went around it pushing it out slowly and it eventually just plopped out without much fuss... unlike the rear lca bushings which sort of shoot out when you push them out

[dsp26]

DO MINE PLEASE!!!!! cash for j00!!!!

[vinnY]

pressing them out isn't a problem once they're off the car :)
depends when you wanna do it and whether i have time or not :p def. not this weekend though

although i've gotten them out, i still have to figure out
1. how to get them back in
2. how much to clock the bushing for my drop

heard you rotate it 1/4" every inch on h-t, will have to read more about it though

[string]

Rotate it so that it is in it's natural position when the car is sitting on the ground - you'll never get it right using silly rules of thumb like 1/4" per inch. If you did not mark this angle on your trailing arm before you removed it from the car then you made a mistake :)

You push it back in exactly how far out you pushed the old one, you should be able to see a layer of grime around the sleeve of the old bushing to give you an idea of where to go.

[vinnY]

trailing arms weren't on the car in the first place
4x114.3 conversion underway

[Limbo]

guys if you end up doing it let me know i'm interested in doing mine also
P.S i'm even game to go get them pressed out also by a mech

[vinnY]

limbo; i pressed the bushing out myself in about 5 minutes :p
probably take a few more minutes to push it back in, just need to find how much i need to clock the bush

[SPEEDCORE]

just need to find how much i need to clock the bush

I'm with String on this one, don't go by rule of thumb.

After ride height is settled on, lower the car onto a flat surface taking all the weight of the car on its tyres.... resting position if you will.

You are going to want to see what the angle of the flat part of the pin is in relation to the RTA. Then get something with a straight edge (ruler) and using the flat ends of the RTA bushing pin... put the ruler on the flat ends of the pin and mark a line along the length of the RTA.

That line is what you use as your guide for installing the bushing..... with the flat parts of the pin being in line with the line you have drawn on the RTA. This results in the bushing not being twisted while the car is at a resting position.

Obviously... for bushings such as the ES where the pin location is not FIXED like the OEM, the above is not needed, it becomes a press bushing in and slide pin in affair.

There was a good write up on how to install OEM type ages ago on Honda Tech but can not for the life of me find it now.

[vinnY]

trailing arms weren't on the car in the first place
4x114.3 conversion underway

all i can do is eyeball the current setting
i KNOW how to clock the bush *properly* but they're not on the car to begin with so i can't mark it now can i?

[SPEEDCORE]

Nm...... if the exisiting setup is on the car you could do it by measuring from key points on that arm and use those landmarks and measurements on the one you are preparing off the car. Be better than "eyeballing" IMO.

*subscribes to thread*

[Limbo]

vinny once you work it out, do mine for me!

[vinnY]

speedcore; yeah going to have to mark the current arms while loaded and unloaded, measure the difference and clock the bushings on the new arms and install them
should have clarified thats what i meant by 'eyeballing'
limbo; i'll think about it ;)

[dsp26]

^^^yeah do mine too.. i'll help of course + cash + love for j00!!!! :D

i'm on dc2r springs though so will have to do my own measurements

[vinnY]

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/9462/installedbushoy6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/7845/clockedus3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8924/rearlcalc4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

easy to get out, easy to get in :) appears the hardest thing about it is getting the bushing in straight
even had some spare time to press in some new rear lca bushings :)

ended up clocking the bushings about 9mm on a 2inch drop

[fatboyz39]

hectic...gonna do my set ?:P

[vinnY]

let me know when you're ready to do it :p

[dsp26]

^^^me too vinny!! i'll do the hard yards of removing and replacing the trailing arm even though i hate working on the car in summer

i'll even have your babies :p

need your expertise and equipment and shedded garage for this one hehehe.. i turn into the hulk in summer and go ape shit as soon as i start sweating lol

[vinnY]

thats if you can back out of my back yard dude
got 3 cars in there now :)

just take out the arms, take your missus' car and get them changed at my place :p

[SPEEDCORE]

Those LCA bushings... genuine honda items?

[vinnY]

nah hardrace (http://www.hardrace.com/products.asp?strClass1=11&strClass2=22&strClass3=17) ones

[dsp26]

thats if you can back out of my back yard dude
got 3 cars in there now :)

just take out the arms, take your missus' car and get them changed at my place :p

but don't i have to align it while flat and draw a marker on the trailing arm?

mine would be wrong at the moment because i'm on dc2r springs

[vinnY]

you'll be able to mark it through the gap of your wheel and wheel arch
it's more of a guestimation than science,
i used a flat piece of metal and a screw driver to mark where it was, and used veneer calipers to measure it on the other arm

[dsp26]

you'll be able to mark it through the gap of your wheel and wheel arch
it's more of a guestimation than science,
i used a flat piece of metal and a screw driver to mark where it was, and used veneer calipers to measure it on the other arm

sweet... i'll keep an eye out for a cloudy weekend and plan it for then and i'll buzz ya :p

[bennjamin]

its going to be almost impossible to accurately judge this "angle" of static load for ur exact measurements :( close enough is probably better than OEM spec tho ! GL guys

[nd55]

Vinny, those bushes you've got look like they've got holes in the 5, 7 and 11 and 1 o'clock position.

Do they go all the way through?

What's the flex like in those bushes using just hand pressure?

Nick.

[vinnY]

you'd be right nd55, they do go all the way through
i can only assume they put those there to allow some sort of flex

hand pressure? next to none, probably 2mm by hand at the most so very stiff

[dsp26]

you'd be right nd55, they do go all the way through
i can only assume they put those there to allow some sort of flex

hand pressure? next to none, probably 2mm by hand at the most so very stiff

yep.. just for flex/expansion... but they won't budge.. even my rubber ones don't budge and i stepped on them at an angle to test flex.

[vinnY]

tried to replace my rear upper control arm bushings
apparently the friggin things too soft and the arm deforms when you try to press the bushing out :(
i think my cambers going to be whacked when i go to get a wheel alignment now :(
anyone have a spare set they wanna sell me?

[SPEEDCORE]

Are they not tappered on the upper arms and so only come out one way and go in the same way?

Just thinking why you were bending the bloody thing without it budging given I'm sure its a steel item :S

Probably now is the time to just splurge and get an adjustable arm buddy.

[vinnY]

looking at the spare bushes i have here, they appear to be the same as the lca ones and should come out either way
but i did try both.. and no budge :(

on another note.. i've already replied in jdmyard's camber arms thread :p

[dsp26]

looking at the spare bushes i have here, they appear to be the same as the lca ones and should come out either way
but i did try both.. and no budge :(

on another note.. i've already replied in jdmyard's camber arms thread :p

i've got adjustable arms with dead bushes you can have if you wanna just press yours in vinny

[vinnY]

adjustable arms?
afaik my ek4 arms are different to the eg chassis

[bennjamin]

front upper arms are different from the EK to the EG/DC

[dsp26]

aahh... i thought you were talking about the rears...

[outatime]

bumping this thread back

i had the es rta bushes installed last May..

i felt like the car had gotten worse with the es bushing.. the ride quality suffered..i feel like i dont want to drive the car and contemplated of selling it.. vibrations and rattles at the back.. feels like it's gonna fall apart when going on bumpy roads.. and the cornering was unpredictable..

what i've learned is to not believe in hearsays..always trust reputable mechanics, honda's engineering, and people who get results. i don't know about you but i drive my car 7 days a week in all sorts of roads and situation.. traffics, highways, uphills, bumpy roads, nasty potholes, killer ramps and driveways..you name it i've driven on all (except circuit and track! :p)

so i finally decided to get the Mugen Trailing Arm bushings from Yonas at the monthly meet last Saturday. i remember he told me once to get it instead of the ES (i believe he uses them too).. i didnt listen and stucked with the ES. but not for long..

yesterday i had a dayoff and went to Hannys to have it installed. Robert was disgusted when he saw it.. he said ES bushes dont move, causes binding, and makes handling unpredictable! i shouldnt be messing with the suspension geometry Honda designed.. he chucked them in the bin with anger and authority! lol i totally agree! as that's what i've been feeling since i had them.. they are a total piece of sh!t! he also adds that it could have caused me an accident if left for long..

lucky i had the balls to get it replaced! i swear to these mugen rta bushings!.. the comfort level has dramatically improved! and the car's handling too! very predictable! i can take corners faster than ever! the comfort level is amazing! i felt like i'm using super streets hybrid with cusco zero2! lol last month i was considering of getting super streets to replace the apexi n1s to improve the comfort level.. lucky i didnt go that way spending that money only to know the car still rattles and bumpy! it ruined the apexi n1s dampening! the mugen bushing eliminates these dramas and the ghost that's been haunting my car for so long. now i want to drive my car! excited to because of the comfort and handling it provides! i could barely feel the bumps and small potholes!

so for you people who wants to replace your rta bushings, get Mugen! Everything from Mugen is god sent!

[STiR]

Great to hear that feedback. After much research and deliberation I decided to go with the Mugen RTA bushes, also on Yonas' recommendations.

Yet to install, but looking forward to it.

[outatime]

yes go for it.. anything to do with suspension geometry get honda or mugen.

[vinnY]

my hardrace bushings seem okay :) will run them for a few weeks to see whats up(haven't even scrubbed in my new tyres yet)

[dsp26]

bumping this thread back

i had the es rta bushes installed last May..

i felt like the car had gotten worse with the es bushing.. the ride quality suffered..i feel like i dont want to drive the car and contemplated of selling it.. vibrations and rattles at the back.. feels like it's gonna fall apart when going on bumpy roads.. and the cornering was unpredictable..

what i've learned is to not believe in hearsays..always trust reputable mechanics, honda's engineering, and people who get results. i don't know about you but i drive my car 7 days a week in all sorts of roads and situation.. traffics, highways, uphills, bumpy roads, nasty potholes, killer ramps and driveways..you name it i've driven on all (except circuit and track! :p)

so i finally decided to get the Mugen Trailing Arm bushings from Yonas at the monthly meet last Saturday. i remember he told me once to get it instead of the ES (i believe he uses them too).. i didnt listen and stucked with the ES. but not for long..

yesterday i had a dayoff and went to Hannys to have it installed. Robert was disgusted when he saw it.. he said ES bushes dont move, causes binding, and makes handling unpredictable! i shouldnt be messing with the suspension geometry Honda designed.. he chucked them in the bin with anger and authority! lol i totally agree! as that's what i've been feeling since i had them.. they are a total piece of sh!t! he also adds that it could have caused me an accident if left for long..

lucky i had the balls to get it replaced! i swear to these mugen rta bushings!.. the comfort level has dramatically improved! and the car's handling too! very predictable! i can take corners faster than ever! the comfort level is amazing! i felt like i'm using super streets hybrid with cusco zero2! lol last month i was considering of getting super streets to replace the apexi n1s to improve the comfort level.. lucky i didnt go that way spending that money only to know the car still rattles and bumpy! it ruined the apexi n1s dampening! the mugen bushing eliminates these dramas and the ghost that's been haunting my car for so long. now i want to drive my car! excited to because of the comfort and handling it provides! i could barely feel the bumps and small potholes!

so for you people who wants to replace your rta bushings, get Mugen! Everything from Mugen is god sent!

awesome feedback.. should post it in the DIY/Review thread:thumbsup:
but +rep for j00 here anyway :)

[outatime]

thanks man.. appreciate that! yay my 3rd rep point! lol

i know i should have brought a camera and take pictures while Rob did it.. especially when he chucked them in he bin.. haha oh well next time i'll take pictures with him if he allows to.

anyways, Rob said if we can get Mugen for the extra dollars get it. He used to work there so he knows what he's talking about.

Ben, i hope you get to read this.. replace your es bushings man they're no good! :D

[bennjamin]

rofl. You do get what you pay for.

But mine are 100% fine. Stiff like the rest of the car - probably why i cant "feel" it like you did lol. If anyone wants to install some mugen RTA bushes for me go right ahead :)

[dsp26]

rofl. You do get what you pay for.

But mine are 100% fine. Stiff like the rest of the car - probably why i cant "feel" it like you did lol. If anyone wants to install some mugen RTA bushes for me go right ahead :)

but your the "Sussy DIY King" can you do mine for me?? :p

[vinnY]

do it ron
my trailing arms feel great :)

[outatime]

Ben doesnt drive his car as often as I do because of the scooter.

if you drive the car everyday, u often put passengers in your car, and u drive on bumpy uneven streets you'll realize the es bushings are piece of sh1T.

heres a few links about it:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=493789
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=606414

[Alexx]

I drive everyday with the ES rta bushes - no problems whatsoever.

Im going to put the mugen vs es debate down to personal preferance... it will change from person to person

[string]

IMO poly bushes are garbage. My inner LCA bushings are horribly ovaled after maybe 10,000km. Rubber/Spherical or bust. Random toe changes suck.

[vinnY]

well its been a week and the bushes seem okay
had a bit of a mishap with the rear shock getting caught so i had to pull it back out again
but doing so allowed me to see the flex that the hard race bushing allowed me to have
with the shock removed and unbolted from the camber arm i was able to move the entire trailing arm in a few directions and view the trailing arm bush movement and it appeared to let me move in just about any directly fairly freely which is a good sign

on another note, anyone had any luck with asking a suspension shop to press in bushings not supplied by them?
i asked a place last week and they wouldn't do it if the bushings weren't supplied by them
need my front bushes pressed out and replaced since i can't do it on my home press :(

[dsp26]

on another note, anyone had any luck with asking a suspension shop to press in bushings not supplied by them?
i asked a place last week and they wouldn't do it if the bushings weren't supplied by them
need my front bushes pressed out and replaced since i can't do it on my home press :(

i posted earlier my local workshop does $10 a press :)

[vinnY]

what sorta shop was it? tyre(i.e. bridgestone tyre centre, beaurepairs, etc)? suspension(i.e. pedders?)? general mechanics(i.e. local mechanics, k-mart auto)?

[bennjamin]

pedders is about $25 a press. regardless of bush type or size.

[string]

I got 12 pressed out for $60 at Pedders. Took ages, got my money's worth.

[bennjamin]

must be the minimum hourly charge then. 12 is your moneys worth :)

[Sp00ny]

yes go for it.. anything to do with suspension geometry get honda or mugen.

What about spoon? I beleive spoon make the trailing arm bushes as well?

Cheers.

[nd55]

Could the ES RTA users state if they are using lowered suspension when giving the poly rta bushes the thumbs up or down.

I'm wondering if there's some link with this and the suspension bind some have reported.

Nick.

[outatime]

What about spoon? I beleive spoon make the trailing arm bushes as well?

Cheers.

dont know about their rta bushings... just get mugen or honda you cant go wrong.



Could the ES RTA users state if they are using lowered suspension when giving the poly rta bushes the thumbs up or down.

I'm wondering if there's some link with this and the suspension bind some have reported.

Nick.

lowered on coilovers. big thumbs down for them. :thumbdwn: it's cheap and aftermarket.

[bennjamin]

Could the ES RTA users state if they are using lowered suspension when giving the poly rta bushes the thumbs up or down.

I'm wondering if there's some link with this and the suspension bind some have reported.

Nick.

using , cheap and you get what you pay for. but i have no issues at all. Binding is all hearsay as im yet to hear of an actual example of it.

But Get OEM if you can. Its only once every 150 or 200,000ksso you might as well get it right :)

[dsp26]

Got mine in... heres my review:

Labour: $200

Observations + limitations
- the rear is noticable stiffer... so much so that i my rear shocks are now set to the lowest damp setting
- turn in is very predictable and has somewhat reduced rear bodyroll and i am able to make turns more comfortably and confidently... the same feeling you get from awesome bucket seats hugging you
- the un-predictable nature others were talking about seem to me like an issue with the tires now
- the car oversteers / loses rear traction an unpredictable amount WHEN it does on dry road, it suddenly snaps... so much a difference that it will take me a while to adjust to it
- above issue is not as noticable in the wet, the oversteer is a more controlable, its the fact that on dry road decent tires (toyo proxes 4 in my rears) grip well but because it is pushed beyond the limits of the tires it will snap out... like when you put your entire weight against a solid wall but it suddenly crumbles and you didn't expect it to happen coz of the resistance it had seconds earlier... get my drift?
- to me this is the exact same effect as upgrading stiffer sussy and better brakes at the front... the tires become the weak point when sussy doesn't damp enough and absorb forward inertia as result of beefy brakes... i imagine that further benefits of solid RTA bushes can only be realised with superior tires

But of course this is all common sense right?


Keep in mind this is an observation my current sussy setup plus the fact that my old ones were completely torn and kept in place with sikaflex that eventually tore due to the amount of flex and dirt the RTA is susceptible to

[bennjamin]

solids ? or mugen or oem ?

[dsp26]

solids ? or mugen or oem ?

these ones from a melbourne store... solid rubber... not solid polyurethane
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1903803&postcount=49

***EDIT***
actually i don't know if its a rubber or poly.... feels rubbery though

[bennjamin]

its rubber , just a aftermarket OEM one. Probably same thing as OEM just not attracting the price.

[vinnY]

my hard race ones are holding up, just feels more solid back there none of this madness you're experiencing ron hehe

alignment settings are;
1mm total toe out, -2deg camber front
2mm total toe in, -1deg camber rear
205/50/15 re001's all round
koni yellows 50%(1 turn) all round with 7.1/5.3kg springs

[dsp26]

not not oem benny their solid


and heres the centre of the actual item (camera fone):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/Maintenance/DSC03572.jpg

[VTi_b0i]

so ur the dude that was at Joes when i was?
nice ot meet ya haha sorry i was a lil anti social :p i was trying to get my problems sorted HAHAHAH

[vinnY]

did they take out the trailing arms at all ron or just replaced the bush while on the car?
did you get them to clock them at all?

[dsp26]

so ur the dude that was at Joes when i was?
nice ot meet ya haha sorry i was a lil anti social :p i was trying to get my problems sorted HAHAHAH
kinda figured that was an ozhonda car lol.... well belated hello then lol and you have quite an attractive girlfriend *runs and hides in hot chicks thread*



did they take out the trailing arms at all ron or just replaced the bush while on the car?
did you get them to clock them at all?
he said he took it out... i actually did a test and slightly unbolted it this morning while not jacked up and it seems to be aligned for its resting place..

[VTi_b0i]

LMFAO! why thank you :p allways nice to know others find her attractive too hahahah

[dinorider]

http://203.31.191.243/fulcrumCat/img.php?id=2463

resurrecting and old topic here, but I was wondering if anybody has had the superpro bushings (pictured above) installed in their civic/integra trailing arms? My OEM ones are on their way out and I'm looking for durable options here.

[bennjamin]

http://203.31.191.243/fulcrumCat/img.php?id=2463

resurrecting and old topic here, but I was wondering if anybody has had the superpro bushings (pictured above) installed in their civic/integra trailing arms? My OEM ones are on their way out and I'm looking for durable options here.


those are sold as a few different brands - ES being one.
I have them on my civic - fairly stiff and fairly cheap.

Notes. These are firm - but will eventually pull out of TOE with consistent mileage. They are not "held" like other bushes but simply pressed into place with lots of lube to aid their movement. Also note installing these requires the destruction of your previous OEM bush - these require the re-use of the outer shell and inner rod for mounting.

They require quite abit of effort to cut down then install.If you are doing it yourself or with mates that know what to do ,,its just abit of time and then you go

[dinorider]

those are sold as a few different brands - ES being one.
I have them on my civic - fairly stiff and fairly cheap.

Notes. These are firm - but will eventually pull out of TOE with consistent mileage. They are not "held" like other bushes but simply pressed into place with lots of lube to aid their movement. Also note installing these requires the destruction of your previous OEM bush - these require the re-use of the outer shell and inner rod for mounting.


Hmm ok... doesn't sound like such a good idea them. Perhaps OEM Honda ones should be the way to go for me. Unless I put out some extra $$ and source a Mugen pair. Anyone know where in melbourne can I get hold of Mugen bushings?

[DNY*BOY]

good post! much to learn , im purchasing some new rta complete set , unrelated having some worn/old rta bushes from what i read will cause toe out and so forth ? problem is with my rear the toe is so far out they wouldnt even do an alignment could the rta wear be one of the causes of this? Along with other bushes that maybe worn.

[dinorider]

good post! much to learn , im purchasing some new rta complete set , unrelated having some worn/old rta bushes from what i read will cause toe out and so forth ? problem is with my rear the toe is so far out they wouldnt even do an alignment could the rta wear be one of the causes of this? Along with other bushes that maybe worn.

From what I can see, once the bushes in the rear trailing arms and compensator arms (the short arms that you move to adjust rear toe) begin to give up you'll have trouble maintaining consistent toe.

Just last week I got my car's wheel alignment done at a reputable place, and the rear toe-in reading changed after they got the car up on the computer the second time, even though no adjustments were made at the rear. I put the blame on worn, sloppy RTA bushings.

That's why I want to replace them ASAP.

[DNY*BOY]

thanks dinorider , ive ordered new ones ill post up how much diff they made , let me kno how u go also =P