proper weight transfer

[gelo]

hey guys
been driving my civic for about 2 months now
and i like to corner hard occasionally
i find that my car understeers quite a bit

now i thought it was the tyres
im running yoko a539's atm and my friend says they arnt that great
another friend of mine said that perhaps my weight transfer is not right
now i never thought of it this way

so i just wanna know what is the proper weight transfer
what i do is what most ppl do i guess
approach a corner
heel and toe
turn
step on gas after i have passed the clipping point

where am i sposed 2 shift the weight to and how?

[ekslut]

From what I have learnt, your meant to be on the gas all the way through the corner (obviously not fully on the gas though). Coz if you are on the gas, it kind of pulls you though the corner and gives more grip. To do this you might need to slow down a bit more at the start of the corner, but when you exit, you will have a lot more speed and you should have more grip through the corner too.

So what I do is: Heal and toe, get back on the gas a bit and turn, once you have reached the apex, accelerate more (depends on corner and the road, but usually I can just plant it from there on).

If I am wrong please someone correct me :)

[SPEEDCORE]

Do not be fooled about the understeering on the EK4!!!
You are in for a nasty surprise one day if you think that it only understeers and the tail does not come out.

You have been warned!

Ok onto the topic...... this is from my experience and so people may have different views and even more so different techniques to achieving the same/similar results. Its all got to do with being patient, persistant and not being a dickhead on public roads.

How long have you been driving for overall is probably a better question to start with?

I personally would forget about the Heel/Toe for now and approach corners at a steady speed.... ie. the speed that you are going to maintain through the turn already be at that speed about 20 meters from the corner entry, maintain the speed through the corner and maintain it on the exit (do not power out of the corner.... just maintain the speed.

Start with slower speeds then slightly add a bit more speed each time....( be wary of doing it on different days and differing debris on the road that can catch you out). You will soon start to learn the limitations of your tyres... and with this will soon realise that the car can change in handling characteristics when it starts to get pushed hard and getting unsettled at corner entry, mid corner and exit.

You will find yourself correcting your line with the steering wheel..... get used to this..... don't panic and make the corrections smooth and not exaggerated for the situation........... and stay off the god damn brake!! For now!

Once you start to feel confident with the above, you can move on to transferring weight. I strongly recommend you to learn to shift weight with the use of the accelerator first as opposed to doing it with the brake.

There is alot more to it but that should be enough for now to keep you entertained and learning..... and please explore the true limits of the car on the track .... not on the street!

Regards,

Speedy!

[SPEEDCORE]

Nope you are not wrong Trev...... this depends on the corner too.

That technique also is more effective with an LSD. Having said that... the car needs to be angled differently upon entry to the corner when you have an LSD. It really is all relative to what type of corner, high speed bend, hairpins etc etc.

So like I said you are very correct in what you said.... thing is it is best to learn the car first and take little steps first and gradually improve.....

[pornstar]

should also add, depends on fwd, rwd, awd, and the FF, FR or MR :)

[gelo]

hey speedcore
thanx for your reply

to answer your question
ive been driving for over 2 yrs now and am on my green P's

and for sure
i know for a fact that the EK4 can over
coz ive been in such a situation(i wanst the driver, and it was corrected so evrything is safe)
and also i keep my hooning to a minimum as i dont really like speeding and ive been involved in a crash b4

as ive said ive had my ek4 for about 2 months
before that i drove my mum's echo sedan

so im still trying to explore the car's capabilities
ive taken onboard about the things ur said and i thank you
i also agree that testing your car on the track is the best way to go
but yeah, we can be at the track every day man~

ill be practicing some more
and to everyone: be safe and dont drive crazy

[SPEEDCORE]

Man I'm not trying to say like don't practice things safely on the road... practice your heal & toe, cornering approach (braking into corner, and angle of approach and the lines that you take) nothing wrong with this on the road. Its more of a thing that in most cases there is less room for error, just something to take into consideration.

I find driving on the street entertaining but respect it alot because of the variation of road surfaces from day to day. What is of more concern to me is the unpredictability of other people on the road!


Oh and BTW... don't think for a second that the stock EK4 suspension is not competant...... there is alot of room for self improvement with that suspension (of course depending on the condition of it).

[tanghy]

gelo sign up for some motorkhana or autokhana sessions, low speed, cheap way to learn in a SAFE enviroment.. going to track is just asking for trouble

[ekslut]

you could also sign up for some advanced driving lessons (different to defencive driving lessons). They hold them at a tracks, and there will be experienced driveres there to teach you how to do it properly, and correct you if you are doing something wrong.

[SPEEDCORE]

:arrowu: *nods* Yep even better.... which takes me to one of my earlier comments... you can only really explore the limits on a track.... and it is the right place to do it., but for things like heal and toe you can practice that in your every day commute without driving like a maniac on the road.... it is solely to get a feel for pedal placement, and rev matching.

Like I said before you can do the little things on the street to get practice just as you travel along with the traffic..... and stick to all the rules... speedlimits etc!

[SIKCVC]

I havn't read to much... but I concour with over stear... I've had it happen at 80-90kms around a corner and its scary in the dry let alone the wet.

I literally transferd my weight when i did my transplant :P the car hasn't understeard uncontrolably since it got its new balls. there was no change to susy etc. So i was VERY suprised. The times its happend to me in the past... I've either locked up the fronts or given it too much gas resulting in the front lifting due to weight transfer... best thing I've found is to keep the car balanced power (ie thrust = drag) and towards the end open it up to the understear point and just correct it accordingly. It can be inacurate.

Thats all i can really say, I'm no expert in fact I could really do with some decent tuition but thats helped keep me out of any real trouble.

As for overstear... Find a carpark or industrial estate and PRACTICE. It will do you no end of good, I dont care what coppers have got to say, me going out in my mums ford and pushing it sideways has done nothing but help me for when i get into a sticky situation... especially in the possition I'm in now with azinis RTs at the front and Goodyear F1s at the bad. On one occasion I've gone completly sideways (enough to make the D1 team go WTF) without even pushing it hard. Another time I locked up my rears around a corner due to a turning car... Practice in places where its "safe" it might not be legal but at least YOU know (providing you dont get busted) that nothing can really go wrong. I've found a nice spot for mums car and I just keep pushing the boundaries just because i know I can and theres very little that can go wrong at this location.

sorry for the essay... I would give it a d+ because it said very little and took a long time to read.

[wynode]

Just make sure you're not changing gears through the corner :)

[gelo]

to speedcore: im going down to wakefield on the 4th with circuit-club
and ive also enrolled in stage 1 of the ian luff driving course
hope these will let me gain more experience
just to make it clear that i know that im not a top driver and where my limit is at
no way am i gonna do anything stupid which will endanger my car
i love my EK4 too much~

also im aware of what the ek4 is like
thats y im gonna leave it stock
my philosphy is, you cant appreciate mods until u have master the car stock

[joyride]

haha this thread should have some disclaimer saying the views of OH members are not of the OH board and thus OH is not liable for any accidents caused.

lol

[wynode]

haha this thread should have some disclaimer saying the views of OH members are not of the OH board and thus OH is not liable for any accidents caused.

lol

2. Ozhonda is provided purely as a means of communications between its members and as a source of reference for non-members
AND


All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of Ozhonda.com Discussion Forums, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.


Both of which was agreed to on signup :)

[SPEEDCORE]

haha this thread should have some disclaimer saying the views of OH members are not of the OH board and thus OH is not liable for any accidents caused.

lol

I don't really see where you are comming from dude....

This is in the same league as if I own a performance shop and sell you an engine that has 300hp for your civic and you lose your licence because YOU choose to SPEED and be RECKLESS on the streets...... should the performance shop be liable???

[linkorr]

gelo, only way is practice. :) lots of it.. Different corners different everything.. so you just gotta know the limits of your car.

I've only been driving FWD cars so I have zero idea how to handle a RWD car. The ek4 being a hatch should be relatively tail happy. So like Speedcore says, just becareful. You never know when it might just get you. Been in a oversteer before, not good.

anyway here's my corner:
Brake
Heel & toe 1 or 2 gears depending
still on the brakes till just before you reach the corner. in gear while still braking so the revs are pretty high (sometimes it's coming back from the redline)
turn in, control turn with brake and accelerator (listen to the tyres)
then just floor it and :D:D:D

[crx_16x]

Proper weight transfer?

Pics of a friends car.

http://www.bigbutton.com.au/~lucille/803_p7524.jpg
http://www.bigbutton.com.au/~lucille/803_p7525.jpg
http://www.bigbutton.com.au/~lucille/803_p7523.jpg

[bizee_1]

to speedcore: im going down to wakefield on the 4th with circuit-club and ive also enrolled in stage 1 of the ian luff driving course
hope these will let me gain more experience
prolly catch you at WP, me should be going too....[u in Hills?]

i too have also wanted to do some driving courses...just time & $$...
wouldn't mind doing those motorkhana's/autox too...even a slalom run etc...

i'd say my best experience with weight shifting, & limits of braking was a rainy track day at wakefield....came off at least 6 times. it also shows you how much grip you really have at speed. [with street radials at least]

another thing to try at the track, is to downshift normally while braking hard, hence without heel-toeing. the shift of weight in that alone, gave me an idea of balance in a corner.

[gelo]

bizee_1: yes i live int eh hills area
pretty close to narada actually, like a 5 min drive

cool, i'll see u at WP, urs a civic gl yea?

[bizee_1]

Pm.

[dr180]

I think chassis stiffness and correct suspension will help alot to cope with understeer as for technique brake before the turn and then use throttle to counter.