Which of these brands should I choose for shocks?

[xenonkuraz]

Koni Yellow

Bilstein

Tokico Illumina

KYB AGX

All similarly priced; $500-700 shipped set of 4.

Will use in conjunction with King's Lows. I wish they made Super-Lows for the CD5.

[simonnowis]

personally id go with the koni yellows

[Mugen Civic]

Yea Koni Yellows

i'm getting a set soon myself.

[xenonkuraz]

Any other input before I go for the koni's? :)

[zco]

bilsteins

[CB7_OWNER]

koni yellow - where will you source it from?? if you actually want decent handling get some eibachs or neuspeed springs from the states....great with the cd chassis..

[d15z1SUX]

i have koni yellows and eibach sportlines. great for carving up the hills. will be taking it to the skidpan will be looking forward to seeing how it performs.

[aaronng]

I'd pick between Koni yellow and Bilsteins. I think the Koni Yellows have an adjustable spring perch, while the Bilsteins don't?

[dsp26]

i'd also go with either Koni or Bilstein (if basic coilover)

but you need good set of springs (rates) to match em such as the eibachs already mentioned above, you need to also get the ground control spring sleeve kit if you want height adjustability which also come with eibach springs....


mind asking where your getting em from? theres an online shop i get my sussy from that sells all 4 you mentioned.. maybe cheaper considering the current US$ exchange rates.... ended up getting my AGXs shipped from there for ~AU$440 when it was around 82c...

[bennjamin]

bilsteins do have the option for staged perches much like koni yellows. So go either one.

[e240]

I actually like Tokicos, but there are Tokicos and there are Tokicos, and the illuminas are not ..erm...well, the Tokicos.

I'd go with Koni's or Bilsteins.

[dsp26]

I actually like Tokicos, but there are Tokicos and there are Tokicos, and the illuminas are not ..erm...well, the Tokicos.


lol, what do you mean?

Theres Ilumina, Ilumina R (coilover), D Spec (coilover)?

[EKVTIR-T]

As price is similar then go Bilstein for sure.I would rate those choices as Bilstein>Koni>Kyb then Tokico.
Having had Koni yellows for 6 mths I now believe they are overrated..
Just my opinion :)

[vuongkong]

I've heard that Koni Yellows + the Ground Control setup, is a lot better then most coilovers you can get, can anybody shine some light on this? :D has anyone had these shocks mentioned above? :thumbsup:

[hai]

Yep lots of people talking koni yellows ; friends have them too and his outcomes was great, recommended !

[string]

As price is similar then go Bilstein for sure.I would rate those choices as Bilstein>Koni>Kyb then Tokico.
Having had Koni yellows for 6 mths I now believe they are overrated..
Just my opinion :)

Care to elaborate on your opinion? Displaying a product in negative light is all well and good if you can justify it. I've been happy with my yellows for over 12 months. Maybe you have poor springs, or don't know how to adjust them to suit your driving style, or maybe you can tell me the problem :)

[bennjamin]

i add +1 vote for kon yellow shocks to suit your ride. Mated with decent springs ( not king or pedders etc) they are quite good.

[EKVTIR-T]

Care to elaborate on your opinion? Displaying a product in negative light is all well and good if you can justify it. I've been happy with my yellows for over 12 months. Maybe you have poor springs, or don't know how to adjust them to suit your driving style, or maybe you can tell me the problem :)

I was waiting for your comment mr string.;)

I have used them with king,gab and vision springs and find they made no real improvement over my oem shocks.

And do me a favour by not suggesting all your negative possibilities for me being displeased with Koni.
I feel they don't live up to all the hype but I'm glad you are happy with yours.
We all have our own ideas and opinions and experiences and I don't need you to defend them based on your opinions :)
I will be selling them at some stage and getting a replacement setup.

[string]

When installing the Koni's, what were you expecting to happen? What did happen? Don't water it down, give it to me straight exactly what you expected for your money and how much of it ended up true.

You can throw words like idea, opinion, possibility and experience around all you like, but suspension design is a SCIENCE.

If I said that soft springs are your problem not your good choice of damper, what do you say?

[bennjamin]

i bet installed with lowered springs or on the lowest perch etc.

[aaronng]

The spring rate has to be matched to the damping rate. If he has soft springs, then the Konis won't be the best choice for him.

[EKVTIR-T]

When installing the Koni's, what were you expecting to happen? What did happen? Don't water it down, give it to me straight exactly what you expected for your money and how much of it ended up true.

You can throw words like idea, opinion, possibility and experience around all you like, but suspension design is a SCIENCE.

If I said that soft springs are your problem not your good choice of damper, what do you say?

Firstly regarding springs.The kings were lows which are moderately lowered and the softer of the 3 ,the gabs were extremely low and harder than the kings and the vision are a moderate height and the stiffest of the 3.

I was hoping to get better rebound control over bumps and dips as I enjoy twisty/mountain type driving which isn't always a perfect surface.
Also a little less body roll and improved steering response considering the uprated valving compared to oem.
And better absorption of road irregularities.
I have tried the range of rebound adjustment with all 3 springs fitted.

Science is all well and good if all things are equal and also there's the human element as well.


To add,the suggestions of too soft springs only go so far as with the standard valved yellows over approx. 10kg/mm is not recommended anyway.

[xenonkuraz]

I'm planning on a koni yellow/neuspeed race combo. The ns springs lower the car by around 2" back and front.

Go ahead?

[krogoth]

i add +1 vote for kon yellow shocks to suit your ride. Mated with decent springs ( not king or pedders etc) they are quite good.

ZOMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGBENNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

this is the first time ive seen som1 who knows wat theyr talking about criticise king springs, evry other time ive seen them crticised was by ppl running super lows on stock shocks and wondering y their car cant take corners and y it sags after a wile

imo, the biggest difference between different kinds of springs is how stiff they are

so, maybe u mean that kings arent suited to konis because they are not stiff enough for that shock? not that they are crap?

[dsp26]

^^^exactly right.... kings spring rates aren't suitable for the koni's... no-one gets kings for performance, their showboat springs specifically for lowering.

their results exceed other adjustables like tokico's and AGX in terms of rebound when matched to the correct spring...

i posted about them here:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78092&highlight=dyno


To the OP since he hasn't replied, this is where I get my sussy from which has the KYB, Koni & Tokicos he's after, shipping is around US$140 from memory:
http://stores.ebay.com/jdmwerks13_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsQ3amesstQQtZk m

^^^Out of stock of the Koni's and Ilumina Rs by the look of it, best email them...



[QUOTE=EKVTIR-T;1738431]
I was hoping to get better rebound control over bumps and dips as I enjoy twisty/mountain type driving which isn't always a perfect surface.
^^^function of damp setting+spring rate combo

Also a little less body roll and improved steering response considering the uprated valving compared to oem.
^^^stiff damp doesn't fix body roll, stiff spring rates or bigger swaybars do

And better absorption of road irregularities.
^^^function of damp setting+spring rate combo

I have tried the range of rebound adjustment with all 3 springs fitted.
^^^what were the spring rates on all 3 springs? coz rule of thumb with koni's has always been to get the eibachs/gc or similar.

Science is all well and good if all things are equal and also there's the human element as well.
^^^yep:thumbsup:

[EKVTIR-T]

^^^stiff damp doesn't fix body roll, stiff spring rates or bigger swaybars do

I think it contributes to less body movement but not as an independent solution.
I've already got f/r sways too.

[krogoth]

yeh, id stiffer shocks do contribute to less body roll, its a combination of things

ther isnt one single solution

stiffer shock, stiffer spring and bars

[xenonkuraz]

I was just given a set of used KYB shocks and springs today...for free!

What should I look out for when using secondhand shocks? They look like they are in good condition. Although I might not use the springs as they aren't for lowering.

[dsp26]

I was just given a set of used KYB shocks and springs today...for free!

What should I look out for when using secondhand shocks? They look like they are in good condition. Although I might not use the springs as they aren't for lowering.

if your taking about KYB Exel-Gs/GR2s... manufacturer states you shouldn't exceed 1.5in lower than oem...

[string]

I think it contributes to less body movement but not as an independent solution.
I've already got f/r sways too.
It can't contribute to body roll final angle as it does not store any energy. The only way it possibly could reduce your roll movements is if your previous damper is hideously underdamping the movement and jumping past the point of maximum roll before returning to it. Regardless, the energy from the roll has to be stored somewhere to be returned when you return the wheel - the springs store it and determine how far you roll, not the shock. They certainly will give you that feeling of less body roll, which further reinforces the point that body roll really isn't the enemy.

[JohnL]

The spring rate has to be matched to the damping rate. If he has soft springs, then the Konis won't be the best choice for him.

I know it would be better with stiffer springs, but the stiffer the Konis are set the better my CB7s handling becomes, even with the very soft stock springs (stock CB7 is approx 180lbs front / 110lbs rear, roughly calculated from the spring dimensions).

The Konis don't decrease the amount of ultimate roll, but they do slow the rate of that roll, so on stiffer dampers (e.g. a Koni on a stiffer setting) in a given corner the car may roll less because it reaches X roll angle more slowly, but with a softer setting the car will roll more because the chassis may well reach a steady state earlier.

On long corners such as roundabouts, the Konis (or any dampers) still allow just as much roll as softer dampers, but you're a bit further into the corner before you reach roll angle X.

The damper absorbs energy and then dissipates it as heat. It's this absorbtion of energy that causes the rate of roll motion to be lowered, more so the stiffer the damper is.

[JohnL]

I have used them with king,gab and vision springs and find they made no real improvement over my oem shocks.

And do me a favour by not suggesting all your negative possibilities for me being displeased with Koni.
I feel they don't live up to all the hype but I'm glad you are happy with yours.
We all have our own ideas and opinions and experiences and I don't need you to defend them based on your opinions :)
I will be selling them at some stage and getting a replacement setup.

I'm curious as to how you come to such conclusions, or rather why your experience is as you state it.

Koni are renowned for a decently stiff rebound rate at the stiffer end of the settings, and also for their forgiving nature over larger bumps due to their digressive force curve.

You're experience is contrary to everything I've read regarding Konis and to my own personal experience of them.

Check out this for some interesting reading on dampers; http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

[EKVTIR-T]

I'm curious as to how you come to such conclusions, or rather why your experience is as you state it.

Koni are renowned for a decently stiff rebound rate at the stiffer end of the settings, and also for their forgiving nature over larger bumps due to their digressive force curve.

You're experience is contrary to everything I've read regarding Konis and to my own personal experience of them.

Check out this for some interesting reading on dampers; http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

I know what you mean.And I have that link already from ages ago :)
Maybe it's just after reading so much about them I had built up a high expectation.

Your explanation regarding the body roll resistance was great and I agree.

[JohnL]

I know what you mean.And I have that link already from ages ago :)
Maybe it's just after reading so much about them I had built up a high expectation.

It sounds to me like you might have been expecting magic results from them, they are only dampers after all, and only part of the set up, albeit very good dampers and a very important part of the set up. The other thing that crosses my mind, could one (or more) of your Konis be defective?

My biggest issue with the Konis on the soft stock springs is that the Konis feel softer in bump than I would like. I suspect this is not the dampers fault so much as the springs being too soft so that they don't 'assist' the damper to resist bump loadings enough, i.e. the combined bump rates of the damper + spring feels very soft compared to the high damper rebound rate on a stiff setting. It's possible that on a less stiff rebound setting the dampers won't feel so 'rebound' heavy / bump light', but then my car doesn't handle as well on softer rebound settings...

Stiffer springs would most probably fix this feeling of the bump rate being too soft by adding bump stiffness, and by making the damper work harder in rebound, i.e. effectively softening the damper in rebound (if you follow my meaning), so the total bump stiffness / resistance (spring + damper) becomes greater in absolute terms as well as relative to the effective rebound stiffness (?).

[e240]

lol, what do you mean?

Theres Ilumina, Ilumina R (coilover), D Spec (coilover)?

dunno, the US branded Tokico's just doesn't seem right - I can't put my finger on it. I use to use a Japanese one in Singapore, which was really good - just can't seem to get it from the US sites.

[NightKids]

It sounds to me like you might have been expecting magic results from them, they are only dampers after all, and only part of the set up, albeit very good dampers and a very important part of the set up. The other thing that crosses my mind, could one (or more) of your Konis be defective?

My biggest issue with the Konis on the soft stock springs is that the Konis feel softer in bump than I would like. I suspect this is not the dampers fault so much as the springs being too soft so that they don't 'assist' the damper to resist bump loadings enough, i.e. the combined bump rates of the damper + spring feels very soft compared to the high damper rebound rate on a stiff setting. It's possible that on a less stiff rebound setting the dampers won't feel so 'rebound' heavy / bump light', but then my car doesn't handle as well on softer rebound settings...

Stiffer springs would most probably fix this feeling of the bump rate being too soft by adding bump stiffness, and by making the damper work harder in rebound, i.e. effectively softening the damper in rebound (if you follow my meaning), so the total bump stiffness / resistance (spring + damper) becomes greater in absolute terms as well as relative to the effective rebound stiffness (?).

His got his own opinions about them & you do as well. Why can't you just leave it instead of constantly trying to say that his wrong and to bring up all this stuff which he already knows about.

[040501912]

just get ur self a deccent coil over like buddy club! n problem resolve :p

or go cheap stuff like D2! they really stiff! i like the feel on them LOL is just matters of oppinions regarding suspension. every1 have different taste. all brand on the market they all compete together! and all of them do the best they can do to supply the market demand.

so my suggestion is make up ur mind and get it! and try the feel of it.