First Time 1/4 Mile with a Turbo Charged D-series Hints??

[Lukezen27]

Hey People

Well I'm finally off to the drag strip this Wednesday to represent the Turbo D's

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91376

Now I've been driving my EG5 stock for years but only about 6 months with turbo.

I've read most of the hints posted in Track/Drag Racing but most are about N/A

Are there any extra tips to handling the uneven power of a Turbocharged?

Thanks Guys

Luke

[grumpy rooster]

Don't just dump the clutch at 7000rpm. That will achieve nothing other than lots of wheelspin and poor ET's. Slip the clutch a little at around 4000rpm and see how that goes. Then use whatever hapened on that run to determine if you need more/less revs and more/less slip depending on whether it bogged or spun.

What tyres are you using?

[bennjamin]

my noob advice

drop front tyres to 20psi or so
raise rear pressure up to max recommended
dont bother with the burnout - drive straight thru.
pull up handbrake enough to hold your car still , then dont launch too harsh , basically roll off then FLOOR it
Dont mis-shift...meh. Practice !

[grumpy rooster]

You either need to do some sort of burnout or drive around the water otherwise you will have wet tyres when you stage. But if you do a burnout don't bother with a big one if your just using normal road tyres. Its a waste of time. It doesn't do anything besides wear down your rubber.

One last thing, don't worry about the times you'll run on your first night because they WILL improve the more times you go. Thats a fact!!!

[Lukezen27]

Don't just dump the clutch at 7000rpm. That will achieve nothing other than lots of wheelspin and poor ET's. Slip the clutch a little at around 4000rpm and see how that goes. Then use whatever hapened on that run to determine if you need more/less revs and more/less slip depending on whether it bogged or spun.

What tyres are you using?

Some crap called ling longs lol

[bennjamin]

its only half the tyre that gets wet , hasn't promoted my road tyres to slip or spin any more. So i drive straight thru it and wait for the green light.

Semis , slicks and sticker road tyres would be a different scenario and yes warrant a warmup of sorts :) As said above a burnout does nothing for grip for real normal road tyres. Get out there and take it nice n easy Luke. It is a BIG buzz driving thru the tunnel and looking down the track for the first time !

[VTi_b0i]

the thing id like to know is can you flat shift with a turbod motor or would this be in some way bad?

[Lukezen27]

its only half the tyre that gets wet , hasn't promoted my road tyres to slip or spin any more. So i drive straight thru it and wait for the green light.

Semis , slicks and sticker road tyres would be a different scenario and yes warrant a warmup of sorts :) As said above a burnout does nothing for grip for real normal road tyres. Get out there and take it nice n easy Luke. It is a BIG buzz driving thru the tunnel and looking down the track for the first time !

Yeah man it should be hell fun...:)

[Benson]

i give my street tyres a good warmup before launching it...

[CRXer]

but,but....burnout is half the fun:p

[Lukezen27]

the thing id like to know is can you flat shift with a turbod motor or would this be in some way bad?

Yeah what he asked?

[VTi_b0i]

lol yeahh im still waiting for an answer :p

[teh_mechanic]

if your not doing burnout,which you dont really need to on street tyres---drive around the water,driving through it could only hurt your launch.

raise rear tyre pressures to max recommended on sidewall of tyre,fronts about 20psi for street tyres,strip any easy dead weight you can get out ie-subwoofer,spare tyre etc etc.....

dont just dump the clutch and keep your accelerator pinned down,slip the clutch !slightly! around 3/4 throttle then when you feel the car has momentem and is reaching full traction after 0.?? seconds flatten the accelerator.

when you pull into stage,get it so your front tyres only just roll onto the leading edge of the stage line and your light comes on,gives you 10cm or so before you cross the start line (hey it all helps ok lol)

if you wanna go all out and have camber adjustment then you want your fronts dead straight to get more traction - probably getting a bit too hardcore though

[EG5]

if you wanna go all out and have camber adjustment then you want your fronts dead straight to get more traction - probably getting a bit too hardcore though

Dead straight camber adjustment is good but not on the launch as it will go +1degree camber or so when you launch it.

[Lukezen27]

How should I setup my suspension?

Hard the back and soft front?

I don't have a camber kit so there's nothing I need to worry about

[EKVTIR-T]

I would think flat shifting would only be beneficial if the motor is set up for topend power.
Since you're running a small turbo I wouldn't bother..

[Lukezen27]

I would think flat shifting would only be beneficial if the motor is set up for topend power.
Since you're running a small turbo I wouldn't bother..

I don't even know what flat shifting is exactly lol

[EKVTIR-T]

It's not releasing the gas during upshifts.Keeping the rpm higher

[VTi_b0i]

lol ask yonas he's the king :p
its where u change gears without taking ur foot off the accelerator... it has to be done super fast as to not over revv the engine... yonas goes down the whole quater with his foot flat on the accelerator...

[EKVTIR-T]

It's not hard but feels like it's killing the clutch though.

[VTi_b0i]

yeahh it does lol its pretty hard to go from 2nd to 3rd without miss shifting

[Lukezen27]

yeahh it does lol its pretty hard to go from 2nd to 3rd without miss shifting

lol I got from 1 to 2 like that all the time but its by mistake when hit'n hard :p

[EG5]

lol ask yonas he's the king :p
its where u change gears without taking ur foot off the accelerator... it has to be done super fast as to not over revv the engine... yonas goes down the whole quater with his foot flat on the accelerator...

Accelerator Pedal to the metal down the whole 1/4 mile FTW
No need to let it go

[Lukezen27]

Accelerator Pedal to the metal down the whole 1/4 mile FTW
No need to let it go

My gear box doesn't engage fast enough really for that..

[EKVTIR-T]

Blipping is useless imo.
Better off holding at a certain rpm,then flooring it after launch at which time the rpm will help spool up.

[Sexc86]

Hey luke. On a further note. This isnt really on topic, if you ever think about going hondata. Few good things for boosted cars.

Anti-lag & Launch controll = Launch controll drops down your rev limiter to your desired level for launch only so you can hold your car at Wide open throttle bounceing off your launch rev limiter. This combined with Anti lag... you will actually see boost pressure build up on your boost gauge while your car is revving. This means launch on full boost, not haveing to build it up after you leave the line.

Also "Flat shift" is something i would find quite handy. This being able to change gears without removeing your foot from the accelerator. This also means you wont loose full boost pressure after every time you change gears. 10psi all the way from when you launch untill you cross the line.

But a few things i felt have worked well for me.

*Front tyres to 20psi Rears to 40psi
*Basic weight reduction (everything counts) tools, spair wheel etc
*Dont worry about launching as soon as it goes green. Wait for your apponent to leave and and go a few sec down the track. Then concentrate on your launch. Dont worry your time will start from when you actually leave the line.
*Front Suspension soft as possible + Rear Suspension Hard as possible
*Dont just hold the revs at a constant level and dump the clutch. Fast Sharp agressive stabs of the throttle and then launch close to redline at Wide open throttle. If you start wheel spinning to much then just back off the RPM when you launch
*Know where you rev cut is, dont bounce off it with gear changes.
*Dont be afraid to push your car to its limits or be rough on the gear box.

[EKVTIR-T]

Full boost launches might not be ideal for front wheel drives though unless running drag slicks.

[VTi_b0i]

Also "Flat shift" is something i would find quite handy. This being able to change gears without removeing your foot from the accelerator. This also means you wont loose full boost pressure after every time you change gears. 10psi all the way from when you launch untill you cross the line.

yes i agree with you lyle and thanks for the post, what i am interested to know is when flat shifting in turbo'd cars, would this cause any engine damage etc as the motor will be revving alot faster and is under boost? id like to know if the extra revving would put a turbod honda motor under alot more stress then an NA motor? if that makes sence? lol

[EKVTIR-T]

Have you ever owned a fwd turbo car Claymore?

[Sexc86]

Claymore, yes i know we have had this discussion before. I do see the points you are makeing and i do see that they have merit. However you would also know that some people are more serious about drag raceing the others.

eg
* Some may just like to race to beat their own personal best times. In which case it is irellevant about launching Right on green.
* While others are more serious and focused on Dial-in-time raceing, where IMO its more about driving skill and power delivery and your launches.

Some people see winning as beating their apponent and others see it as beating their PB (personal best)

As this thred is titled
"First Time 1/4 Mile with a Turbo Charged D-series Hints"

IMO thats my best advice for luke as a first timer, and should he want to get more serious with it later on he may want to change his drag raceing goals.

Also on a further note, im not sure about what would be the best in theory behind launching Turbo cars. But all i can say in my experience is that agressively revving the car right before launch made my car actually leave the line more "on boost", compared to holding the revs at a high steady level and then just dropping the clutch. And yes i have tried both. But as i said only on my experience.

[90LAN]

u should be familiar with your car and setup by now
just drive as usual and adjust to suit the track
as your confidence builds you will know what suits best
as with normal reduce weight and tyre pressures

and NO 1 rule have FUN
dont worry if u make mistakes

[Sexc86]

That is why he SHOULD START OUT DOING IT THE CORRECT WAY. It's much easier to learn the correct way first than it is to UNLEARN BAD HABITS.

You can still go for PBs leaving on yellow so why not start out doing things the best way as driving skills increase with practice but your techniques are with you always.

You mean to tell me you can't watch the lights and drive at the same time why all the concern about your launch and how would watching the lights matter to your launch I mean you are watching them EITHER WAY so why not PRACTICE EVERY CHANCE YOU GET?


Im saying that there are usually outside factors that affect your ability to concentrate. And concentration is usually a pretty big thing in getting a good launch. Factors like another car next to you makeing ALOT of noise.. effecting your ability to hear and feel your car, also feeling rushed to leave at a exact specific time (green light).

you take away those 2 factors... and you have more concentration to get a better launch. IMO after you get more experience you ability to mentally block out those external factors get better... and then you have the ability to get more serious about it.

my opinion only dude.

[bennjamin]

ffs claymore.
we speak of this kids first time at the track. You do NOT have to go when the light turns green...so you remove the main stress of the track and then you let yourself concentrate on the launch + run itself. Dont hit me with the time wasted if everyone did the same...its perfectly OK to take 1 or 2 seconds more ( like i do at the drag races) and launch properly. Its not unlearning its learning how to drive at the drag strip. Once you are accomplished , then by all means go for the hard launch at the sign of the light

[grumpy rooster]

I noticed that Lyle said to make the front suspension soft and rear hard. That is half right. Yes you want the rear hard but you also want the front hard, but not as hard as the back. If it is soft the front will lift when accelerating thus transferring some of the weight off the front tyres meaning less traction. Make the rear as hard as you can and the front about 1/2-3/4 of that.

Also, if you can, make the rear higher than the front. It helps with reducing the weight transfer to the back.

[Zilli]

Grand Nationals kick ass!

but yeh, take your time and get it right, its like trying to bang a chick for the first time, you got you **** out, a rubber in one hand, lube in the other and you dont know whether to put it in the date looking hole or the long pink gash underneath.... you could try and do it all at once but you **** it up and end up with lube in your hair and a rubber on your big toe

take your time... learn how your car is going to respond in those conditions... then when you leanr how to put a rubber on your **** and where to put it... dive it and go for gold...

[Sexc86]

AHHAHAHAAH OMG... ^ that diserves a rep point. Not much stuff on the net makes me laugh out aloud.

[Lukezen27]

Just took my spare out and my tools

Hope I don't get a flat :p

[CRXer]

Leave the car fully packed dude,see what its capable of as a street car,then start stripping to beat your times

[Lukezen27]

Leave the car fully packed dude,see what its capable of as a street car,then start stripping to beat your times

Too late :eek:

[Zilli]

AHHAHAHAAH OMG... ^ that diserves a rep point. Not much stuff on the net makes me laugh out aloud.

:p

well its true aint it?

[teh_mechanic]

you been down the strip yet,whoever started this thread?
great adrenalin rush when you pull out onto the track for the first time.
take a breath,soak up how racecar driver you feel with your helmet on, and have fun.

you got the best facts we can give you to get a street car down the 1/4 now,get out there and hav fun

[Lukezen27]

you been down the strip yet,whoever started this thread?
great adrenalin rush when you pull out onto the track for the first time.
take a breath,soak up how racecar driver you feel with your helmet on, and have fun.

you got the best facts we can give you to get a street car down the 1/4 now,get out there and hav fun

ME!!

Yeah can't wait though it looks like rain dam it :p

[bennjamin]

looks overcast but OK out there....

[Lukezen27]

looks overcast but OK out there....

Fingers crossed and balls :p

[YaMiKaZe]

ling longs = :thumbdwn: lol

[xtercii]

so how did the turbo d go?

[bennjamin]

it didnt. It rained before he could get 1 run in.

[Lukezen27]

it didnt. It rained before he could get 1 run in.

Ben, myself and a lucky few were only minutes away for our run when some kook smashed and by the time the track was cleared the rain started :(

Helmets on and all :eek:


ling longs = lol

Yeah mate there shit and loud is ****

[bennjamin]

its on next week.....COME ON LUKE ! wooooo

[Lukezen27]

its on next week.....COME ON LUKE ! wooooo

Yeah guess so

Do you ring up yet for the credit?

[xtercii]

last time I went there and only had 2 runs and i didn't even know you could get a free run the next week...spewing...

[CRXer]

So,we're gonna run again next week,or when?

[Lukezen27]

So,we're gonna run again next week,or when?

Yeah I'll try man

I've got'a come from Chatswood starting at 5:30 :o

[CRXer]

I'll be from eastern suburbs at about the same time,so i'll give ya a few practice runs on parra rd or the great western:p

we'll wait for ben & get him to post up another thread.

[Lukezen27]

I'll be from eastern suburbs at about the same time,so i'll give ya a few practice runs on parra rd or the great western:p

we'll wait for ben & get him to post up another thread.

lol yeah but knows my luck we'd get busted for speeding :o

[CRXer]

haha jks.

had a few good ones with another frustrated little 12A series 3 that was there also last night on the way home:angel:,he was shittin all over me in the wet.

[Lukezen27]

haha jks.

had a few good ones with another frustrated little 12A series 3 that was there also last night on the way home:angel:,he was shittin all over me in the wet.

lol I don't boost in da rain much

One wheel power on ice is all ****ed up :p

[bennjamin]

lets not chit chat too much eh ?

Guys new event....25/6/08. Booked all teh same :)

[Lukezen27]

lets not chit chat too much eh ?

Guys new event....25/6/08. Booked all teh same :)

sweet

Tech check finishes at 7:30 yeah?

[bennjamin]

yes guys you gotta be there by 7.30pm at the latest. That still gives about 2 hours of runs - roughly 3 runs.
Normal night is about 3-6 runs...

[Lukezen27]

yes guys you gotta be there by 7.30pm at the latest. That still gives about 2 hours of runs - roughly 3 runs.
Normal night is about 3-6 runs...

I'll give it ago and see if i can make it in 2 hours but its peak hour

[VTi_b0i]

leave tech early y0 lol whats one nyt :p

[Lukezen27]

leave tech early y0 lol whats one nyt :p

I wish

Worked on leaving early this time for about two months lol

[CRXer]

lets not chit chat too much eh ?

Guys new event....25/6/08. Booked all teh same :)

Oops,sorry:o

Im in,cheers ben

[uniorj]

Ben, myself and a lucky few were only minutes away for our run when some kook smashed and by the time the track was cleared the rain started :(

Helmets on and all :eek:



haha yeah like my mate. just started raining.

might be going tomorrow night.

[Benson]

yes guys you gotta be there by 7.30pm at the latest. That still gives about 2 hours of runs - roughly 3 runs.
Normal night is about 3-6 runs...


if you get there at 7.30pm you'll be lucky to get 2 runs in.

[Lukezen27]

if you get there at 7.30pm you'll be lucky to get 2 runs in.

Yeah I know but its better than none lol

[bennjamin]

Yeah I know but its better than none lol

and you have a free credit for it too...

dont forget guys to CALL WSID BEFOREHAND to redeem your "rained out" credit.

[Lukezen27]

and you have a free credit for it too...

dont forget guys to CALL WSID BEFOREHAND to redeem your "rained out" credit.

Coo

Whats the number Ben?

[CRXer]

yeah thanx for that ben,i was assuming that it was just automatic credit.

96721320 luke

[Lukezen27]

yeah thanx for that ben,i was assuming that it was just automatic credit.

96721320 luke

Thanks man :thumbsup:

[VTi_b0i]

did u go? lol

[Lukezen27]

did u go? lol

Read lol


it didnt. It rained before he could get 1 run in.

Ben, myself and a lucky few were only minutes away for our run when some kook smashed and by the time the track was cleared the rain started :(

Helmets on and all :eek:

[beeza]

Damn that! Oh well's...
Check this car (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92553) out.Awesome!

[Lukezen27]

Damn that! Oh well's...
Check this car (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92553) out.Awesome!

Yeah saw that in da for sale thread :thumbsup:

[VTi_b0i]

lol so was this the 2nt time uve tried or 1st?

[Lukezen27]

lol so was this the 2nt time uve tried or 1st?

Only night I've tried lol

Going back this Wednesday to come :thumbsup:

[VTi_b0i]

oh i see i isee

[Lukezen27]

oh i see i isee

Its a long way from Manly man :p

[VTi_b0i]

haha yeahh ill bet it is! i have to drive past it almost everyday HAHA

[Lukezen27]

haha yeahh ill bet it is! i have to drive past it almost everyday HAHA

lol IC

Where do you work?

[VTi_b0i]

i live in bossley park area, and work in bella vista, when im in the warehouse/office lol

[Zilli]

so did someone learn how to put a rubber on yet?

[Lukezen27]

so did someone learn how to put a rubber on yet?

Not yet :(

Smash then rained out just before our turn

[Lukezen27]

Hows lunching at about 3000rpms from my first time?

[SHW.70Y]

on my normal 14inch stockies i lowered the psi to 22 and launched at around 3200rpm which got a 2.2 sixty footer.
i no our cars are heaps different but i hope that helps a bit

[Lukezen27]

Ok

Finally ran

Got two runs with my car died mid track like it did few nights ago on the third :o

First run 14.8 @ 156kmh

Second Run 14.6 @ 158kmh

I just can't get the takeoffs right lol

[bennjamin]

nice work Luke ! your third run would of dropped another .1 or .2 :)

[EKVTIR-T]

Why did it die?

[Lukezen27]

Why did it die?


Not sure, second time its happened

Its like hitting Rev limiter but I'm not

Might need a new fuel pump as I'm running on stock...


nice work Luke ! your third run would of dropped another .1 or .2

Thanks man

Yeah the third run my takeoff was heaps better with not much wheel spin

[SHW.70Y]

shame that it had to happen on our race together lol
best of lick with rectifying the problem , hope to see you out there again soon car looks great !!

[barefootbonzai]

Where's Lyle when you need him.


LOL i remember a Ek B18cr with ITBs and all the nice goods that couldnt even make that.


i bet ya that Ek b18cR with ITB will smash a D series 130kw EG. Anywayz if thats the car your talknig about its doen a 13.5 on street tyres.

So if you ever get a chance to get out to 1/4mile and run times, please post them up as a good comparison to B swaps.


can you explain that too me? the one i sore only made 120wkw? how does a heavier car with 120wkw car... beat a 130wkw lighter car ?

lmao, Jimmy right on the money.

And in all fairness, it was his first time, but mph don't lie.....14.6@98mph
what 60ft'r where you getting?

I give respect to Luke though, his done his shit without the shit talking. With a bit more practice you'll get better. Well done for getting out there.

[Lukezen27]

Where's Lyle when you need him.






lmao, Jimmy right on the money.

And in all fairness, it was his first time, but mph don't lie.....14.6@98mph
what 60ft'r where you getting?

I give respect to Luke though, his done his shit without the shit talking. With a bit more practice you'll get better. Well done for getting out there.

Yeah my 60 were like 2.55 2.50 crap

Also I'm running on 17" with a heavy body kit

[SLOWEGG]

What rpm you launching at? did u lower your front tyre pressure and raised the rear?

[barefootbonzai]

Yeah my 60 were like 2.55 2.50 crap

Also I'm running on 17" with a heavy body kit

definitely room for improvement. once you get your 60ft'r down to 2.1 or 2.2 which is decent on real street tyres, you should definitely see low 14's or even a high 13 pass

Seems like the Benjamins stock B18CR isn't doing too bad against the "130kw" D-Turbo.

[bennjamin]

Seems like the Benjamins stock B18CR isn't doing too bad against the "130kw" D-Turbo.


I say nothing :) I let results speak for themselves. Consistant 100mph and 14.00's is enough said for the B series brigade :)

Luke is doing great...JUST to get out there ! MOAR of you sop shit talking and get those cars to the strip :)

[90LAN]

so b series conversions are on par or better than d series turbo'sconversions?
good try mate any way
u will do better next time for sure good mph too
may be borrow some 15's

[fatboyz39]

I say nothing :) I let results speak for themselves. Consistant 100mph and 14.00's is enough said for the B series brigade :)

Luke is doing great...JUST to get out there ! MOAR of you sop shit talking and get those cars to the strip :)

100MPH is very healthy.

Get those B and D series turbo cars out there to run. Don't be embrass.

Hope to see improvement in your times luke.

[bennjamin]

may be borrow some 15's

he needs some 15's in 4 stud 4x100 that will clear ITR front brakes.
Any thoughts ?

[90LAN]

he needs some 15's in 4 stud 4x100 that will clear ITR front brakes.
Any thoughts ?

depends what itr brakes he has 96 spec or 98 spec
96 spec most 15 will clear as the are the same as dc2 / eg6/ etc
98 spec he will have to run 15x7 and depending on offset will need a spacer

[bennjamin]

depends what itr brakes he has 96 spec or 98 spec
96 spec most 15 will clear as the are the same as dc2 / eg6/ etc
98 spec he will have to run 15x7 and depending on offset will need a spacer

its 98 spec ~ and yup all honda rims in 4x100 even 14 inch will clear the 96 spec/eg6/ek4 brakes.
Looks like he needs some aftermarket 15's

[Lukezen27]

Most definitely room for improvement..

I didn't get one run right IMO but yeah things I need to improve

1. Raise the back coilovers as my car slops down at the back now the springs have settled.

2. Maybe remover the Down force Wing I have on the back?

3. 15" that would clear my ITR brakes.

4. Maybe even put my stock bumpers on but fuk that would be a pain in the ass..

5. Never wear steel caps for 1/4 :o


But all in all hella fun night :)


shame that it had to happen on our race together lol

best of lick with rectifying the problem , hope to see you out there again soon car looks great !!

Yeah sorry man that was looking like a good little run

[fatboyz39]

ITR brakes fit under EK4 rims :)

[Lukezen27]

ITR brakes fit under EK4 rims :)

Oh cool

Whos got two they want'a loan me lol

Oh I think LSD would help quiet a bit too..

[Lukezen27]

Step One
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1777570#post1777570

:thumbsup:

[EG5]

Step One
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1777570#post1777570

:thumbsup:

Just take the wing out for 1/4 mile purpose only
We did that to our EGK20A back in 2005 with spoon cf rear wing. , gain 2mph from taking it off

[Lukezen27]

Just take the wing out for 1/4 mile purpose only
We did that to our EGK20A back in 2005 with spoon cf rear wing. , gain 2mph from taking it off

Hand to take off?

I've tried before and from memoy was hard lol

[Sexc86]

Nice work mate! dam good for your first time.

Few things i would add (even though some may have been suggested)

*Buy some 15s and get some tyres on there with biggest profile as possible say 205 55/60. dc2 Fat 5s would be pretty good.
*Do some basic weight reduction. stuff thats easily removeable, but you still want to race your car in oem standard trim condition. So spair wheel, tools, a sub box? etc etc
* When Lauching a turbo car you actually want to lauch it spooled up as much as possible. In my experience launching at low held constant revs does not do this. Rev it agressively... then Full throttle on clutch drop. If your tyres are down to a nice low pressure you should have minimal wheel spin.
* Front damper Soft, Rear Damper Hard.
* (Might sound nooB-ish) Dont rev out your car to the point your bouceing off rev limiter, youd be surprised how much time you loose. Learn to change right before your rev cut. (assumeing your makeing your peak power close to your rev cut)
* Gear changes as quick as possibly. NA IMO doesnt really matter (As much) .. but the longer your shifts take in FI means the more pressure your looseing in your pipework. In a sence, ever time you do a slow shift, you loose all your 10psi of boost.. going back to 0psi. This means your power is going from 130wkw back to 70wkw. Then on your next gear engagement it will take a fraction of a second to build boost again. (hence going from 70wkw back to 130wkw)
* launches are most important. If you can get good launches / 60fts you would be surprised how much this improves your overall time.

Some of these things might seem small. But when lots of small percentages add up they equal something that does make a difference. Sometimes 1 - 2 seconds.

Questions
What MPH does it say on your time slip?
What do you mean your car was "dieing"
Did you make yourself launch on green? or did you take your time?
When you launched... do you actually have to wait for your boost to kick? or are you launching ON boost allready?

*** Remember you car only makes 130wkw at 10PSI... not at 0 PSI (makes 70wkw). so you want to keep it at full boost (or close to it) the WHOLE time your raceing. ie flat shifts (if your game) or quick shifts (practice) and very agressive launches (practice again).

IMO if you can Launch on boost.. rather then waiting for it... your MPH WILL get higher. And if you can put the power to the ground without breaking any traction this should bring down your 60foot. End result i believe mid to high 13.

I suppose Mr "Naturally Aspirated" a few pages back doesnt under this concept.

questions and comments welcome

Regards Lyle

[EG5]

Hand to take off?

I've tried before and from memoy was hard lol

4 x 10mm nuts
takes less than 2 minutes

[fatboyz39]

IMO if you can Launch on boost.. rather then waiting for it... your MPH should get higher. And if you can put the power to the ground without breaking any traction this should bring down your 60foot. End result i believe mid to high 13.



Abit optimistic? Have to do so much thing's mention above to run a "decent" time.

[Sexc86]

As i said.. I BELIEVE... its not JUST one thing that leads to success. Its the combination of lots of small things that all add up to get the best results.

And no its not optimistic. Its been proven time and time again... just go search on honda-tech, D-series.org and turbod16. But i suppose we are in Australia... and well apparently to some people that changes everything.

[CRXer]

I think it is near on impossible for luke to launch on boost with the tyres he is running,saw him everytime just sitting on the line spinning with what sounded like minimal boost from the return road.

[Lukezen27]

I think it is near on impossible for luke to launch on boost with the tyres he is running,saw him everytime just sitting on the line spinning with what sounded like minimal boost from the return road.

Yeah I don't need any more power that's for sure lol Maybe less would help me at this point :p

Even when I didn't lunch at all I still got wheels spin in first and second!

I think wheels are the main problem, these Ling Longs have cracks in them after only two years so I'd say there are very hard rubber

[Sexc86]

Yes well. This is the point of a "Test & Tune"

To test your setups (find out its strengths and weaknesses).. in lukes case.
weaknesses - experience, power delivery and the unability to efficiently controll boost, excess weight

Then TUNE your setup (change / alter) to help remove this weaknesses. which i have stated above.

If luke cannot launch his car on full boost.. he needs a wheel and tyre setup that will alow him to do so.

[Lukezen27]

As i said.. I BELIEVE... its not JUST one thing that leads to success. Its the combination of lots of small things that all add up to get the best results.

And no its not optimistic. Its been proven time and time again... just go search on honda-tech, D-series.org and turbod16. But i suppose we are in Australia... and well apparently to some people that changes everything.

Took my time and lunched
Lunching on a bit of boost
MPH 98.66

[Weq]

You gotta learn to peddle it. launch higher, ride the limiter. 1/4 in a NA and 1/4 in a turbo are totally differnet things.

Your MPH is a bit low, your 17s arnt helping that. Maybe the toda dyno is a bit optimistic? From the sounds of it, your having a ignition blowout or maybe a fueling issue. Get that sorted. But other then that, its to be expected on your first time out.

We can clearly see that ben has alot less weight. Making 100mph on a stock motor is an acheivement, but weight is the key. That and your 60ft, Drop .3 up top and u will drop .9 down the end of the track.

[Weq]

also not your MPH will drop once ur 60ft goes down.

Are u holding boost through till red-line yet? It seems like ur down on power. Or are your wheels really china spec, 16kgs each style?

[Lukezen27]

also not your MPH will drop once ur 60ft goes down.

Are u holding boost through till red-line yet? It seems like ur down on power. Or are your wheels really china spec, 16kgs each style?

china spec? you mean crap?

Still no EBC is no but boost holds OK 10-11ish then about 9ish 6 ground on

[fatboyz39]

keep trying. Get out there every week and practice. That is the key to achieving some nice ET's. People giving advice and etc is good, but its up to you to get out there and practice.

[Lukezen27]

I've been reving out to 7200 on each run but my cam only makes power too 6800

Might change gears at 6700 yeah?

[gReY-oNe]

Yeah my 60 were like 2.55 2.50 crap

Also I'm running on 17" with a heavy body kit

its alrite

my first time out i got 2.75 60 ft times
and a 1/4 mile time of 20's
-_____-''



pretty good effort practise makes perfect

[Lukezen27]

Guys

Don't start this crap in my thread... or the mods will close it..

I never stated I could do better than anyone ells or whatever motors there running............

[barefootbonzai]

yeah sorry bro. it was your good mate that wanted to start shit with his retarted comments.

[bennjamin]

yup this is Lukes thread so lets keep it to his car and driving style.

Luke. Only way you can get better is more practice !

I havent changed anything the 4 WSID events i have run in my life. Exact same engine / chassis / wheels / tyres / height / tyre PSI etc. And all that has happened is that i am pulling more and more consistent numbers and MPH.
I now know where i am lacking in my driving and thats the launch. Not much tho...2.2's on actual street tyres is starting to push it.
But you are doing 2.4's on your crap tyres....as other said change that to something smaller and better then dont change anything. Just practice practice practice and you will get better.

[Lukezen27]

yup this is Lukes thread so lets keep it to his car and driving style.

Luke. Only way you can get better is more practice !

I havent changed anything the 4 WSID events i have run in my life. Exact same engine / chassis / wheels / tyres / height / tyre PSI etc. And all that has happened is that i am pulling more and more consistent numbers and MPH.
I now know where i am lacking in my driving and thats the launch. Not much tho...2.2's on actual street tyres is starting to push it.
But you are doing 2.4's on your crap tyres....as other said change that to something smaller and better then dont change anything. Just practice practice practice and you will get better.

Hey Ben

I forgot to remember what my Coilovers were set on lol

What should I put em back too?

[Sexc86]

Whoa claymore! i thought you were gonna give me a rebuttle... but hell yeh thanks for the rep!... I guess it was a pretty "retarted" post. Not my fault some people dont know how a turbo works LOL!

Luke best change gears slightly before your rev cut...but also have a look at your dyno sheet and see where exactly your makeing all your max power.

Answer Luke

* What do you mean your car was dieing?
* When you launched did you have to wait for boost... or did you allready seem to be on it ?
* How were your shifts? sluggish or nice and quick? (you can usually tell by the sound of your BOV and how much air is escapeing). When you changed gears did you get any turbo lag right after engageing into your next gear?
(gforces pushing you back in your search when boost kicks in)

[CRXer]

I havent changed anything the 4 WSID events i have run in my life. Exact same engine / chassis / wheels / tyres / height / tyre PSI etc. And all that has happened is that i am pulling more and more consistent numbers and MPH.
I now know where i am lacking in my driving and thats the launch. Not much tho...2.2's on actual street tyres is starting to push it.
But you are doing 2.4's on your crap tyres....as other said change that to something smaller and better then dont change anything. Just practice practice practice and you will get better.

I was getting consistent low 2.1's last time on my tyres & no LSD.
I reckon u should be able to push deep into the 2.0's with your setup Ben.
And that will be your 13's.

However Luke remains pretty helpless trying to get boost off the line ,with those tyres,i reckon he'll max out at 2.2-2.3's.

[xtercii]

Learn to change right before your peak power.


why change b4 peak power not on the peak power or a bit past the peak power? If you change b4 peak power doesn't that mean your are not utilizing all of your 130kw?

Anyway by the sound of your runs, I would suggest you to use part throttle for first or maybe even second gear. It worked on me when I ran my car...

[Sexc86]

sorry mate i ment rev cut.... ill edit.

Hmm Anything other then WOT (full throttle) with FI usually means no boost at all. Best bet would be look into a "Anti-Lag" feature. I know some Hondata have this feature, but dont think so with the emanage. I think you can buy separate units that are designed specifially for "Anti-lag" launch.

Eg - Gizzmo Launch Controll (or something similar)

Basically allows you to hold your throttle and build bost up on the line.

Ie - You can actually look at your boost gauge and watch it creep up to your boost setting (while sitting stationary). In lukes case 10psi.

[barefootbonzai]

If funny you trying to act smart with all these posts. Yet all it proves is that how useless the powerband of the d-series turbo is, and by the sounds of things you need to be a professional F1 driver to get some decent times out of one.

Absorb up all the advice guys, you'll be good for 14's all day long just like Lyle.

[CRXer]

Haha,luke will be just doing 2 burnouts,one in the pit & one on the start line,with the thing sitting there on a launch controller with full boost dialled up.

I cant even get my underpowered heap off the line with the LC set at 3000rpm.Its all about throttle control on street tyres

[Sexc86]

Mate i dont ACT smart, i try get my knowledge across to other people as easily and coherently as possible. I wont say something i dont know, agree with or backup... unlike some who chop and change their opinions more often then they change their jocks!

Im looking at it from a wide perspective and considering all options. It doesnt take half a brain to realise that there are a fair few more factors in FI setups then NA. Do you have half a brain duy?

If you actually cared about other people, and not just focused on TRYING to make a fool out of me. You would realise i have draged my car nearly 30 times. I have increased my times by nearly 2 seconds (very worst through to very best). I think this proves i may know atleast something about drag raceing (i still have much to learn too). Even though my car is limited to low 14s (satasfied with my limited setup).. your a fool to think that makes ME look retarted.

My advice can be used for people with 12,13,14,15 sec FI & NA cars. Other people have recognised this but your just to stuborn to go past your ego, and admit it (no surprise there).

Its ok mate.. maybe you should go back to "ALL MOTOR" where you belong, and take out your feelings on your signature in your true traditional style. For a person with such experience in drag raceing you advice to others is rubbish.

[barefootbonzai]

yeah i'm not gonna set by and let someone like yourself talk shit about my car, especially when it's actually achieved a lot in the honda scene in Australia. Don't forget you're the dumbass that said Luke's car will beat the time i ran over 2 years ago. If i was you i'd feel like a total dumb arse for makeing such claims just to be proven wrong.

and that's the only reason i'm posting, not here to give him advice on drag racing.

[Sexc86]

Haha,luke will be just doing 2 burnouts,one in the pit & one on the start line,with the thing sitting there on a launch controller with full boost dialled up.

I cant even get my underpowered heap off the line with the LC set at 3000rpm.Its all about throttle control on street tyres


by LC if you mean Launch Control. "Launch control" and "Anti-lag" are 2 different features.

Launch controll is about lowering your rev limiter to your desired level (as im sure you allready know)

Anti-Lag is a Turbo only feature. Designed so you are able to build up your full boost stationary before you launch.

[fatboyz39]

There is another world besides drag racing.

[xtercii]

this is the only world that matter jimmy hehe...

[Sexc86]

Duy if your posting in here just to argu with me. The PM me or add me on MSN. Your car HAS (i agree) achieved alot in the honda scene in australia. Id never try ruin that.

Just remember that mate. It doesnt feel nice when people shit talk you car. Remember this convo next time your laying crap on someone elses car.

I stand by everything i say. I wont wake up in the morning and delete it. Simple reason luke did not pull a equal or better time is he was not able to sustain his 130wkw for 100% of his run, as well as failing deliver 100% of his 130wkw to the ground on launches/shifts(due to simple in-experience)

Your car made 120wkw at 0psi. This means you had 120wkw for 100%. As well as the experience to put it too the ground.

Simple Physics. All conditions equal. (as we are purely compareing setups). 130wkw in a lighter car will go faster then 120wkw in a heavier car.

Say what you want duy. If this were really about the topic at hand and not just trying to publically humilliate me and proove me wrong, you would actually discuss this privately. Rather then ruining lukes thred, as well as your own reputation.

[Sexc86]

fatboyz (i assume your name is jimmy). If your talking about circuit/track raceing, and that what we were discussing, then i wouldnt be fighting the point that im on about now.

[barefootbonzai]

I stand by everything i say. I wont wake up in the morning and delete it. Simple reason luke did not pull a equal or better time is he was not able to sustain his 130wkw for 100% of his run, as well as failing deliver 100% of his 130wkw to the ground on launches (due to simple in-experience)

Your car made 120wkw at 0psi. This means you had 120wkw for 100%. As well as the experience to put it too the ground.



Man some people are just thick. How is it possible for anyone to be at max power for 100% of the trip. If you had half a brain that would mean my car's dyno graph would be a straight line @ 120kw from 0rpm - 9000rpm.... um WRONG.

And since you're too thick to understand basic things, for his mph he is not really making 130kw's. Many have already pointed out that the dyno seems to be a happy one.

[Sexc86]

Some have pointed out it "may" be happy. But whos to say his was anymore/anyless accurate then your dyno readout?

By maximum power im talking about his full boost. (terminology) Hes not makeing 130wkw at 0,3,5,7 PSI is he? No its at 10psi. If hes launching on full boost, rather then 0 and haveing to build it up, as well shifting in a way that hes not looseing boost (and haveing to make it back up again)(Do you know what turbo-lag is?) Its going to be a little different. That is what i ment by his max power, and how it needs to be at that level 100% of his run.

I think your the thick one buddy. I thought you would know that drag raceing with FI setups and takeing into account the amount of time a car is on full boost vs 0psi/boost building, will cause major variations in MPH.

YES luke did 98MPH. YES that 98MPH maxed out with a decent launch may only be good for a low 14/high 13. But that was with his car on full boost for aprox (85%) of his run. Should it have been (100%) the MPH would have been alot higher.. hence representing his power figer. This is the concept i have been trying to get through to you. Mr Naturally Aspirated.

[barefootbonzai]

Some have pointed out it "may" be happy. But whos to say his was anymore/anyless accurate then your dyno readout?

By maximum power im talking about his full boost. (terminology) Hes not makeing 130wkw at 0,3,5,7 PSI is he? No its at 10psi. If hes launching on full boost, rather then 0 and haveing to build it up, as well shifting in a way that hes not looseing boost (and haveing to make it back up again)(Do you know what turbo-lag is?) Its going to be a little different. That is what i ment by his max power, and how it needs to be at that level 100% of his run.

Cause we've already said it a million times, MPH doesn't lie. That's how we know it's a really high reading on his dyno, obviously you have problems understanding the concept.

Once again, i'll rephase what you're trying to say... The setup he has, has a very narrow power band, which is not very useful in REAL life applications.

[fatboyz39]

Luke, post up your dyno graph again.

[barefootbonzai]

lmao @ 100% of the time. It's not possible for any car to run @ 100% of it's max power all the time, boost or na.

[Sexc86]

LISTEN!

No its not possible for a car to run @ its peak power ALL the time.

It IS possible though to have a car be running at FULL BOOST 100% of the time.

Just like it is ALSO possible to have a car running NOT running at Full boost 100% of the time. Such as luke. Due to turbo lag on slow shifts and bad launches (just comeing down to in-experience).

So sorry that prooves your MPH garbage incorrect for FI anyway.

eg. my setup (yes i know its just a crappy 14sec setup like you keep saying like a broken record) over my 30 timeslips (that i all have here) all have MPH vareing from 91MPH to 100MPH. Exact same setup, tune, boost, poweroutput.

Yes i guess its all a big excuse. But end of the day its just the truth. Practice makes perfect, there is alot more left in lukes car then your Stubburn N/A mind can comprehend. Weather or not he gets to that level is a different story.

Seriously think you should do some reasearch on turbo lag if you want to keep pushing this point

[barefootbonzai]

hahahha yeah mph readings don't work for FI, just keep telling yourself it.

you're car either had some weight reduction, change in tyres, wheels or you're just a very random/inconsistant driver for your mph to be changing that much.

bed time hahahah.

[Sexc86]

End of the day turbo Lag is a big part in drag raceing. A factor that you dont have to deal with N/A that why you dont understand it.

MPH do have some indications but not if the car has stayed on different % boost levels over their duration of their run. run 1 on 80% of time in full boost vs run 2 100% of time in full boost.

No mate, dont tell me what my car has or hasnt had done. Same power output, same weight, wheels etc etc. Just Learning and getting better at drag raceing and learning to maximise the % of time my car stays at full boost for the duration on my runs.

First runs may only have been 70% .. but best runs were close to 90%

Dont worry i will draw you up a nice easy diagram for you to follow tomorro night. Bed for me now too.

ps. Just because MY car hasnt done a 13 doesnt mean my advice doesnt have merit, or do i NOT have the right to give it to people. If you think thats the case then your kidding yourself.

[CRXer]

by LC if you mean Launch Control. "Launch control" and "Anti-lag" are 2 different features.

Launch controll is about lowering your rev limiter to your desired level (as im sure you allready know)

Anti-Lag is a Turbo only feature. Designed so you are able to build up your full boost stationary before you launch.

Yes,i know what anti-lag is,and since you are specifically talking about launching,it does fall under the category of launch controller.They are not 2 different features as such.They both limit the engine to a desired rpm by way of fuel cut for limiter only, &/or ignition cut for also having the ability to build boost via unburned fuel mix going off in the hot exhaust manifold.

If u want to get technical,the gizzmo & such,are not proper anti-lag since they only achieve it via ignition cut.Proper anti-lag,involves seperate modes in the engine managment with completely different fuel & ignition maps reading off sensors such as TPS,MAP,clutch switch,etc to achieve anti-lag at any rpm or engine load.

Im also sure luke doesnt want the repercussions of running anti-lag,which can include reduced turbo life,dropped exhaust valves,severly reduced cat convertor life & more.Having said that,people are still using it on mildly tuned engines & getting away with it to certain extents,but the end results will come.

"launch controllers" also do not work with mild builds,you can do a much better job yourself.

It does sound awesome however & produces some nice flames without the cat in place.

BTW,u make driving & launching a front drive boosted car sound like some sort of black art,it really isnt that hard or different to an NA version,its not until u get to AWD's & large turbos that it gets tricky with boost.

Anyway,back on topic,

The turbo D, squatting for all its worth:p

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/CRXer/wsidstreetmeet250608_132.jpg

[90LAN]

in na motors power band is only in the 5500(vtec) plus range
if u bog down at the track u will be out of this power band
so u will only be running at less than half of power
but drag racing has to many variables
so u can never be running at 100% eng power
in any set up that being na or turbo

[CRXer]

in a boosted car ben,its just a little harder to modulate the throttle if u go instantly into too much wheelspin as boost doesnt back off as quickly as the NA variety.

but your right if u avoid too much wheelspin at the start its just like launching the NA,all about throttle control & a bit of clutch work if u underdone it.

[Benson]

slicks will fix all launching issues.

[grumpy rooster]

Not quite. LSD + slicks will fix MOST of his launching issues.

[Lukezen27]

Not quite. LSD + slicks will fix MOST of his launching issues.

lol Yeah

[Weq]

Luke, have u looked up FI 1/4 FWD videos on the internet yet? My guess is that this is whats happening.

http://www.civictsi.com/Videos/Civic_Tsi_InsideCarRun.mpg

1st - wheelspin wheelspin shift
2nd - wheelspin wheelspin shift
3rd - bog bog bog bog boost traction on your way
4th traction end 1/4

U gotta modulate throttle, peddle the wheelspin and hookup 3rd in your powerband. Thats the key. Ds produce as much torque as horsepower. Bs are lucky to make half. Peak torque is around 4000-5000rpm. Launching at anything in the range will have the same effect. You got to peddle the wheelspin. It takes alot of practice.

Now go watch a NA FWD 1/4 mile video at the same ET region. Its alot less involved.

Go read:
http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-articles/unsprung-weight-part-2-a-29058/

Your chinese spec tempe tyre combo is likely adding over 200kgs the the weight of your car. Along with taking longer to get into your powerband, causeing more lag, and less traction due to less sidewall.

Go read turboD16 in regards to 1/4mile pointers.

Oh and lastly, your boost falling off is probably the reason your hitting the MPH you are. At 10psi u should be trapping 100mph. 100mph is the key to 13's. That said, it was ur first time out, i would be happy with improving. Ive seen civics run 14.2@117mph.

[Sexc86]

This is the whole point i have been trying to make

All things equal 2 exact same cars, same power output and driver both forced induction.

With a forced induction setup there can be a massive variety of power outputs at any given rev range (within the turbos efficiency)

Eg 5000rpm @ 10psi may equal 120wkw
5000rpm @ 5psi may equal 110wkw
5000rpm @ 0psi may equal 90wkw

This is what i ment by constantly staying at your maxium power possible at all points in your rev rang (being at full boost). With NA this is different

Eg 5000rpm @ 0psi may equal 110wkw...

This is the only possible combination.

Launches with FI = launching on no boost or launching on full boost... completely diffferent.. as you are launching with different power capabilities.
Just because you are at 5000RPM doesnt mean your on full boost. You could be anywhere between 0psi and 10psi.

Launches on N/a = launching alwayes on 0psi. your never going to have any more power to utilise.

Now shifts. A slow shift with NA isnt that critical. All you loose is a little bit of time. A Slow shift with FI is COMPLETELY different. You loose your time AS WELL as all your boost power that you have built. This means for a fraction of a sec (depending on turbo size and boost pressure) it will need to re-build back to full boost. Meaning there are times after your shifts where your car is not running at its peak power (AT THAT POINT ON YOUR RPM).

So after 3 shifts and haveing to rebuild boost 3 times (all adding up time). This means you are no longer at your peak power (at all points on your rpm).
Ie you are NOT at your peak power RPM for 100% of you run.

Thats why MPH varies so much with FI setups as well as why you cannot predict as accurately what the setup is good for.

Anyone feel free to add comments or critism to this.

I stand by everything i have said, but i can admit that getting a cars FULL 1/4 potential time is alot easier from NA as to FI.

[Weq]

Lyle your making good points, just sometimes poorly worded (i suffer from the same syndrome). It makes you an easy target.

[Sexc86]

Yep ^ got no problem with that. But just because my ability to articulate my thoughts/knowledge isnt the best... doesnt mean the theory isnt sound.

Thats not aimed at you btw.

[Weq]

slicks will fix all launching issues.

This is true. Even peg legging it, slicks makes things a no brainer. Stage, foot flat too the floor, preload, sidestep clutch. Hold the limiter, till your wheel speed matches your car speed, shift, do the same, shift, hookup and you are sitting at a 12 second pass.

[90LAN]

lyle u havent driven a b series na car on the track especially willowbank yet have u? i think u are wrong in this point
stickiest track in oz
hard to explain to some one who hasnt
i have own turbo cars b4 so i know the diffence between the two
and 4wd cars and rwds cars all turbos so i think i would know the difference
like i said at 0-5500 u have no power on the track and u bog down
similar to turbos having no boost or boost lag
its that simple vtec cars are tourque less below that power band
i think luke has to fix many things to get the times the car should be capable off
but it comes down to it having the d series running gear not been able to cope with all that extra power he has
like mention before what he needs to do and hopefully drop his times when he goes next time
but isnt a street car suppose to run on the track like how it is on the street ?

[Weq]

lyle u havent driven a b series na car on the track especially willowbank yet have u? i think u are wrong in this point
stickiest track in oz
hard to explain to some one who hasnt
i have own turbo cars b4 so i know the diffence between the two
and 4wd cars and rwds cars all turbos so i think i would know the difference
like i said at 0-5500 u have no power on the track and u bog down
similar to turbos having no boost or boost lag
its that simple vtec cars are tourque less below that power band
i think luke has to fix many things to get the times the car should be capable off
but it comes down to it having the d series running gear not been able to cope with all that extra power he has
like mention before what he needs to do and hopefully drop his times when he goes next time
but isnt a street car suppose to run on the track like how it is on the street ?

I have experience with:

FWD NA Bseries / FI
FWD NA Dseries / FI

AWD Turbo
RWD NA/FI

They dont compare. Let alone the engine chractoristics of each platform.

2nd, 'D-series running gear'. Pull your head out. Stop commenting on subjects that are above your level. Go back to the lounge AND/OR peddling your wears.

[90LAN]

so why does he need to upgrade to a new and lsd
would it be any good if he used the d series gearbox to drag
any way thats the time he got so no point arguing about it
just has to do better next time
maybe u should pull your finger out mate

[grumpy rooster]

This is true. Even peg legging it, slicks makes things a no brainer. Stage, foot flat too the floor, preload, sidestep clutch. Hold the limiter, till your wheel speed matches your car speed, shift, do the same, shift, hookup and you are sitting at a 12 second pass.

You will not get the best 60ft times with this method. Even in an NA car you cannot do this and expect the best times.

[Weq]

so why does he need to upgrade to a new and lsd
would it be any good if he used the d series gearbox to drag
any way thats the time he got so no point arguing about it
just has to do better next time
maybe u should pull your finger out mate

I dont speak JDM.

[Weq]

You will not get the best 60ft times with this method. Even in an NA car you cannot do this and expect the best times.

Its actually not my method. A few years back the guys a turbod16 did a comparison at the track. They launched a car at various RPMs, multiple times to see what acheived the best results.

Time and time again, the best ET's where achieved via this method.

Oh and this is also the best method for a street trimmed car, without upgraded driveline components. Slicks are a great way to snap axels and sheer gears. So you comphremise 60ft for reliablity. Spin it off the line, get them sticky to grab the other gears.

PS. Im not talking about drag application. Im talking about a street trimmed car, running stock engine, stockish components, looking for the best ET's. Actually this method yeilded best 60fts. I cant find the videos, cause the site seems to have disapeared.

[Weq]

Remember we arnt talking about much power hear. 6800rpm with a few psi of boost is not even pushing 90kW.

[Sexc86]

Yes,i know what anti-lag is,and since you are specifically talking about launching,it does fall under the category of launch controller.They are not 2 different features as such.They both limit the engine to a desired rpm by way of fuel cut for limiter only, &/or ignition cut for also having the ability to build boost via unburned fuel mix going off in the hot exhaust manifold.

If u want to get technical,the gizzmo & such,are not proper anti-lag since they only achieve it via ignition cut.Proper anti-lag,involves seperate modes in the engine managment with completely different fuel & ignition maps reading off sensors such as TPS,MAP,clutch switch,etc to achieve anti-lag at any rpm or engine load.

Im also sure luke doesnt want the repercussions of running anti-lag,which can include reduced turbo life,dropped exhaust valves,severly reduced cat convertor life & more.Having said that,people are still using it on mildly tuned engines & getting away with it to certain extents,but the end results will come.

"launch controllers" also do not work with mild builds,you can do a much better job yourself.

It does sound awesome however & produces some nice flames without the cat in place.

BTW,u make driving & launching a front drive boosted car sound like some sort of black art,it really isnt that hard or different to an NA version,its not until u get to AWD's & large turbos that it gets tricky with boost.

Anyway,back on topic,

The turbo D, squatting for all its worth:p

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/CRXer/wsidstreetmeet250608_132.jpg


Thanks for that mate. I didnt actually know much about Anti-Lag and how different systems worked. Only What the feature was and the benefits of it.

Rep for u!

[Lukezen27]

Thanks for that mate. I didnt actually know much about Anti-Lag and how different systems worked. Only What the feature was and the benefits of it.

Rep for u!

WTF did you get that PIC from Lyle?

[Sexc86]

CRXer posted a few pages back

[Lukezen27]

CRXer where did you get the pic man?

[Lukezen27]

Luke, post up your dyno graph again.

Sure
http://www.doubledynasystems.com/128.4kw%2010-05-2008.jpg

[CRXer]

go in the WSID reflections thread luke,the links in there to the pics & theres also a another pic of u in that thread too,hope u dont mind me posting pics of the turboD:)

BTW,u guys are forgetting a little about the small capacity NA engine,especially the likes of the B series,its easy to bog these motors down,its all about airflow efficiency across the head,& too much throttle abuse will lead to poor power output trying to get an NA going.

[CRXer]

Thanks for that mate. I didnt actually know much about Anti-Lag and how different systems worked. Only What the feature was and the benefits of it.

Rep for u!

Just be careful when talking about the benefits of it,most motors that use antilag are throwaway motors like world rally cars,hipo drag motors,etc.They know they are chucking the thing in the bin after 1 or 2 events so they dont care about the consequences.

[Sexc86]

I have drawn up a few graphs to help represent and explain better the point I have been trying to make.

The three graphs
1 – NA
2 – Common FI
3 – Ideal FI

The graphs represent 3 factors.
* X axis – Time in Seconds
* Y Axis (left) – Boost Pressure
* Y Axis (Right) – Power % @ RPM

All these graphs are basic on simple even generic numbers, as well as all figures I have given in examples. Purely illustrative..

Aim – To show the effects of boost lag and driving style in any forced induction manual car. How this may or may not affect your MPH & ET. How this is comparable to a naturally aspirated setup of similar spec. How ET potential cannot be as simply predicted on a FI setup as a NA setup when looking at MPH and 60foots.

First graph (Shown below – Common FI). 90% of forced induction newbie drivers are like this, unable to launch on full boost and unable to sustain full boost after gear shifts. As I have shown, once boost has reached its target of 10psi (in any gear) it is at 100% power at its given RPM. Don’t get mixed up with peak power on a dyno-graph, completely different. Once there is a slow shift, boost pressure is lost. Upon engaging into the next gear, this boost has to be built back up to full boost or 100% power at RPM. This takes time. All depending on your turbo size, engine capacity and boost setting. Can be anywhere between .5sec – 1sec. This happens 3 times in a drag. This means up to 3 seconds you are waiting for boost pressure to get back to 100% power at RPM.

Graph Common FI
http://i29.tinypic.com/dze42e.jpg

FI VS NA

Example. Two cars both exactly the same in every way. All conditions equal. Both make 100wkw Peak power. Car A = FI – 100wkw @ 10PSI, Car B = NA 100WKW @ 0PSI.

Car A is accelerating at WOT. Full boost at 10psi. Driver gets to 6000rpm and is making at this stage 90wkw. Driver releases throttle. Blow of valve releases. All Air pressure escapes. Driver puts is foot back on full throttle. At Which instant point he is still at 6000RPM but 0psi. Hence he is not making 90wkw anymore. Closer to 60wkw. Driver continues to accelerate. Boost rebuilds back to 10psi but takes 1sec to do so.
Hence he is not always at 100% RPM power.

Car B is accelerating at WOT. Driver gets to 6000rpm and is making 90wkw as well naturally aspirated. Driver releases throttle. Driver puts his foot back on full throttle. Car B is instantly still at 90wkw @6000rpm. Hence he is always 100% RPM power.
This is an example of how in a drag race a NA setup will always be in 100% RPM power. It’s constant (Shown below - NA). But with FI it will depend on weather the car can be launched on full boost and if full boost is sustained over shifts. That’s why MPH can change so much with FI as the percentage of time (out of the 15sec of less) spent in 100% RPM power can vary considerably (all due to driving style). 50% of the time in your race up to 100%.

Graph NA
http://i32.tinypic.com/107rpc9.jpg

The main aim of all ¼ N/A drivers is of course. Quick launch, Quick shifts and efficient power delivery.

The main aim of an F/I Driver is all of above. As well as a not having to ever build up boost at any point in time as soon as you leave the line. Ideally it needs to be there 100% of the time.
I.e. Graph “Common FI” needs to become close to graph “Ideal FI”. (reducing the boost lag gaps on launches and shifts)

Some may never get to this stage (100%) based on human driving skill (shown below – FI Ideal). That is why there are features like Anti-lag, flat shift and launch control. As well as people using the hardcore 2speed auto boxes, where you’re never going to loose boost, due to never having to release your foot from the throttle. (Peg leg?) (Stall/torque converters?)

Graph Ideal FI
http://i28.tinypic.com/2d6kuoi.jpg

Don’t mix this up with power delivery to the ground. This is engine power output.

Apologies as this may be hard to follow for some people. I have tried to explain it to the best of my ability, and some of my terminology maybe different to conventional measures. Look forward to some reply’s

To conclude, IMO I believe it’s easier to get an N/A cars best possible ¼ time much easier then one of similar FI spec. I also believe that it’s easier to predict futures ETs from N/a MPH that that of FI setups.

[90LAN]

I dont speak JDM.

i dont speak audm

[fatboyz39]

this thread is funny. Lyle, have to give you some credit for trying.

[EKVTIR-T]

sounds like a spaceshuttle launch lol

http://z.about.com/d/goflorida/1/0/B/4/shuttle.jpg

[CRXer]

Lyle,yes much credit for trying.

As i said earlier,its just as easy to bog down or "lag" a small capacity NA motor upon launch & shifting,particularly multivalve,multicam head designs which make their seemingly extraordinary power from high air flow efficiency.

If u go just dropping the throttle closed(or even any part thereof can cause the same problem) during shifts,u upset the flow pattern dramatically & turbulence doesnt just disappear instantly like u seem to think.The same sort of concept for FI,u go relying on your blow off valve to keep your turbo spooled upon just jumping off the throttle at will,u'll probably never win.U gotta keep the air flow smooth with NA,u gotta keep the turbo producing as much pressure as it can muster with FI,same shit,different smell.

I did exactly what im talkin about a coupla weeks ago.First run was half asleep as usual,just jumped completely off the throttle going into second like i was still pottering between traffic lights or similar,the motor bogged like its never bogged before,seemingly took ages to sort out the air flow again & start making its most efficient power for the given rpm.Result..........FAIL.

Its only the most efficient, best of the best NA cylinder head designs that will allow u to just jump on & off the throttle at will,this includes all the bolt on gear to go with it,its called response.

Same thing for FI,the best of the best,eg WRC with their elaborate antilag control & turbo setup designs,will only allow u to mash the throttle at will.

So get out there & see what u can produce out of one of our small capacity NA setups before u downplay it as being so goddam easy to do.

[EG5]

Tyre sizes , gear ratio , suspension set up ,traction bar set up , Tyre choices ( Drag Radials , Slicks etc ) play a big part aswell when you launch it off the line.
I tried too many different combination of launching , suspension set up , tyre sizes , gear ratio , tyre pressure etc. Put all those things together and lock it in so you know what will work or not.

Practice makes perfect , thats all I can say. Good like with future runs

[Sexc86]

agree with claymore... some people are confuseing power delivery with power output

[Lukezen27]

Man that was a big read lol

Anyway lots to think about while I'm backpacking in Thailand next month ;)

[EKVTIR-T]

Drags aside,enjoy the trip.
Don't forget to check for adams apple first!

[Lukezen27]

You can see how badly my car sits down at the back

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/CRXer/wsidstreetmeet250608_410.jpg

[SHW.70Y]

one thing some ppl forgot to mention dont forget to enjoy it !
nothing beats knowing you cut a good sixty foot by consistent practice , its a awesome feeling.

[Lukezen27]

one thing some ppl forgot to mention dont forget to enjoy it !
nothing beats knowing you cut a good sixty foot by consistent practice , its a awesome feeling.

Man I had a awesome time regardless of times, sorry I didn't give you a better race....

Good to race other 4 cylinder car like ours so we don't have to go up against those 8 or 9 second cash monsters lol

I laughed my ass off when you handed your stereo face plate to one of your mates for weight reduction ;) cheater :p

Nice vid too, clearly you go a lot yeah?

[grumpy rooster]

Tyre sizes , gear ratio , suspension set up ,traction bar set up , Tyre choices ( Drag Radials , Slicks etc ) play a big part aswell when you launch it off the line.
I tried too many different combination of launching , suspension set up , tyre sizes , gear ratio , tyre pressure etc. Put all those things together and lock it in so you know what will work or not.

Practice makes perfect , thats all I can say. Good like with future runs

I cannot stress enough how true this is. Listen to the guys that go regularly. They KNOW what works and what doesn't. :)

[Lukezen27]

I think I know why my cars having weird power loss problems..

My boost is about 11psi then down to about 9psi at red line

My guess is its going a tad over 11psi and the stock map sensor can't handle 11psi +

Luke

[SHW.70Y]

Man I had a awesome time regardless of times, sorry I didn't give you a better race....

Good to race other 4 cylinder car like ours so we don't have to go up against those 8 or 9 second cash monsters lol

I laughed my ass off when you handed your stereo face plate to one of your mates for weight reduction ;) cheater :p

Nice vid too, clearly you go a lot yeah?

lol to be precise it was my stereo face , phone and wallet haha

i try to go to wsid at least once a month but if im chasing a time i go until i get it lol
right now im chasing a 13 as is so i wont stop until i get there lol

[Sexc86]

aww cmon guys no reps for my hand drawn graphs?

[Lukezen27]

aww cmon guys no reps for my hand drawn graphs?

Your graph kicked ass Lyle but arguing over a subject nether side will even concede bores me lol

So one rep point minus one rep point = 0 ;)

[Limbo]

lyle - mate the graphs were too much for my small brain to work out, but seriously you got too much time on your hands.

Luke - Hopefully when you get back i'll be able to head down with you. House is getting closer to finishing

[Lukezen27]

lyle - mate the graphs were too much for my small brain to work out, but seriously you got too much time on your hands.

Luke - Hopefully when you get back i'll be able to head down with you. House is getting closer to finishing

Cool man

Sounds like a plan

[[ricer]]

lyle - mate the graphs were too much for my small brain to work out, but seriously you got too much time on your hands.


basically saying shift as fast as you can so you don't lose boost

[EKVTIR-T]

;1780737']basically saying shift as fast as you can so you don't lose boost

Flat shifting eliminates that.Simple
I demonstrated this in my friends 200kw atw wrx.He freaked out lol ;)
Throttle stays open the entire pass..

[Lukezen27]

Need to change back to my stock Fly wheel as well...

Now that I'm boosted the lightweight one is losing me momentum

[Sexc86]

Id say not worry about it man. Its giveing you gains at low rpm.. but you just loose out if your "granny shiftin". Practice driving more with your setup as is and getting your shifts as fast as possible. You will loose RPM faster with a light flywheel vs a stock one on shifts.

if you got the guts to be a bit mean on your box give flat shiftin a go!

[Lukezen27]

Id say not worry about it man. Its giveing you gains at low rpm.. but you just loose out if your "granny shiftin". Practice driving more with your setup as is and getting your shifts as fast as possible. You will loose RPM faster with a light flywheel vs a stock one on shifts.

if you got the guts to be a bit mean on your box give flat shiftin a go!

Yeah maybe but the boys on d-series.org change em back quiet often after boosting the D's


Luke, have u looked up FI 1/4 FWD videos on the internet yet? My guess is that this is whats happening.

http://www.civictsi.com/Videos/Civic_Tsi_InsideCarRun.mpg

1st - wheelspin wheelspin shift
2nd - wheelspin wheelspin shift
3rd - bog bog bog bog boost traction on your way
4th traction end 1/4

U gotta modulate throttle, peddle the wheelspin and hookup 3rd in your powerband. Thats the key. Ds produce as much torque as horsepower. Bs are lucky to make half. Peak torque is around 4000-5000rpm. Launching at anything in the range will have the same effect. You got to peddle the wheelspin. It takes alot of practice.

Now go watch a NA FWD 1/4 mile video at the same ET region. Its alot less involved.

Go read:
http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-articles/unsprung-weight-part-2-a-29058/

Your chinese spec tempe tyre combo is likely adding over 200kgs the the weight of your car. Along with taking longer to get into your powerband, causeing more lag, and less traction due to less sidewall.

Go read turboD16 in regards to 1/4mile pointers.

Oh and lastly, your boost falling off is probably the reason your hitting the MPH you are. At 10psi u should be trapping 100mph. 100mph is the key to 13's. That said, it was ur first time out, i would be happy with improving. Ive seen civics run 14.2@117mph.

That's exactly what's happening in that MPG just not at those high RPM's

[Lukezen27]

Ok Guys

Setup Changed thus far

Completed:
New Plugs and re-gapped
New Fuel Pump
MBC Installed
Stock Wing Ready for D day install

Yet to do:
Adjust my Coilovers to raise the back up a bit to force the weight to the front wheels.
New Tyres ( Won’t be done till after I get back from Thailand)

[Aza]

with the coil overs get ones with adjustable hardness. u wont have to raise the back up, just make it harder in the rear

[Aza]

when i adjusted my coil overs in 16 adjustable (16 being hardest) i set fronts at 9 and rears at 13. might be wrong but seemed to work well (mind u i never took it to the strip with the adjustable coil overs)

ps ur all a bunch of whingers....

however with my crap as luanch's in my turbo d, my first time i was hitting the same times and hitting 95-96mph.....

that was on 5 psi with 22kw's less??? i never timed it on 10 but it was def alot quicker round town....

hmmm take it out again after u done ur small amount of work, have some more practise and see if u can pull that sucker into the 13 second braket which it should be capable of with that power...

[Aza]

lyle u havent driven a b series na car on the track especially willowbank yet have u? i think u are wrong in this point
stickiest track in oz
hard to explain to some one who hasnt
i have own turbo cars b4 so i know the diffence between the two


btw sorry to bring this back up... his missus had a H22 prelude which he has taken down willowbank a few times. sorry its not an all mighty b series... ur probable right he still wouldnt no the diffence :rolleyes:

[Lukezen27]

with the coil overs get ones with adjustable hardness. u wont have to raise the back up, just make it harder in the rear

Thats how I had them set bro :p

The Ling Longs are the real problem I think

[Aza]

well mine were same coil overs on urs with the ride hight set on the lowest setting hehehe

[Lukezen27]

well mine were same coil overs on urs with the ride hight set on the lowest setting hehehe

Yeah bad tyres and I suck all adds up :o

[EG5]

with the coil overs get ones with adjustable hardness. u wont have to raise the back up, just make it harder in the rear

I disagree with that

you gotta raise the rear end up and try to run stiffer rear springs and adj the damper to the hardest.

[Lukezen27]

I disagree with that

you gotta raise the rear end up and try to run stiffer rear springs and adj the damper to the hardest.

That's my plan :thumbsup:

[EG5]

That's my plan :thumbsup:

most of 9 -11 sec cars do that
I guess it must be working for them

[Lukezen27]

most of 9 -11 sec cars do that
I guess it must be working for them


Well Yonas if it works for them then it should help me out a bit ;)

I need to buy new street tyres for rego soon, is there any that woud be good for the street and OK for the strip?

[Lukezen27]

good for street and OK for the strip ?
IMO look at Bridgestone RE001. in 15 inch 195x50x15 , you can fetch em for about $115 per tyre.
I have been running them for about 15,000ks with 4 WSID runs and 2 track days and they hardly look worn. Still feel great. And make me launch fine on WSID.

For my 17" Ben

[SHW.70Y]

good for street and OK for the strip ?
IMO look at Bridgestone RE001. in 15 inch 195x50x15 , you can fetch em for about $115 per tyre.
I have been running them for about 15,000ks with 4 WSID runs and 2 track days and they hardly look worn. Still feel great. And make me launch fine on WSID.

thats what im looking for and pretty much in the price range i want to spend on street/track days.
any place in particular you recomend that sells em ?
ps sorry to hijack ure thread lol

[Lukezen27]

Might swap my old back tyres to front...

They have lost a lot of tread and are more like slicks now lol

What do you think?

[EG5]

Might swap my old back tyres to front...

They have lost a lot of tread and are more like slicks now lol

What do you think?

You need sidewalls to get a good launch

[EKVTIR-T]

Yeah can't you borrow some 13/14/15inch wheels for the front?
Your cheap low profile rubber is making it worse...

[Lukezen27]

I see

Well I'm only going once before I go Oversea so its just a temp fix

[SHW.70Y]

i can bring along my stock n14 rims , there 14x5.5 with 60 profile side wall.
got me a 2.2 sixty foot if u wanted??

[Lukezen27]

i can bring along my stock n14 rims , there 14x5.5 with 60 profile side wall.
got me a 2.2 sixty foot if u wanted??

Won't fit thnaks anyway man

I got ITR brakes

[Lukezen27]

OK Guys

All 1/4 mods done

Completed:
New Plugs and re-gapped
New Fuel Pump
MBC Installed
Stock Wing installed
Ben has adjusted my Coilovers at the back to force the power to the front wheels :thumbsup:

Stripped as much as possible without going insane :thumbsup:

Wednesday look out !!!

[Sexc86]

practise practise and more practise dude. your not still running those 17s are you?

[Lukezen27]

practise practise and more practise dude. your not still running those 17s are you?

Yeah :o

Don't have anything ells

[Nepolian]

See you there....:)

Will need to rug up if it doesnt rain. Gonna be freakin cold.

[Lukezen27]

See you there....:)

Will need to rug up if it doesnt rain. Gonna be freakin cold.

Its freakin cold now lol

[CRXer]

too late ben,isnt the digestion cycle about 12hrs?

so does this mean we'll be stacked up behind your car waiting for u to get back from the shitter to have our last run?

[Sexc86]

ahhaah wholey batman wtf?^

[Lukezen27]

ahhaah wholey batman wtf?^

sick fuker hay Lyle lol

I mean we all do it but don't talk about it, just like peeing in my wetsuite >_~

[Lukezen27]

Well I sucked ass lol

First
ET 14.8
60" 2.514
MPR 99.25

Second
ET 14.9
60" 2.616
MPR 99.34

Running 1psi less boost but got higher MPR than last time lol

[CRXer]

lukeys laggy launching ling longs lol

[Lukezen27]

lukeys laggy launching ling longs lol

Yeah there's call Lag Longs :thumbsup:

You nailed a nice run anyway Jason :)


its all in your launch lukey baby !!!!

Yeah yeah but all that fuking round and I was worse :(

Packing now anyway to take my mind off it!!

[Sexc86]

dam man you launches are slow as!!

you must be spending alot of time out of boost too.. your MPH is lower then mine and i only got just over 100wkw. Practise makes perfect mang keep at it

[Nepolian]

Linglong.....dodgy cousin of Nangkang....

We've decided that Luke is just simply "soft" with his driving :)

[Lukezen27]

George thinks I'm not hit'n it hard enough but the harder I do the more spin I get..

But I have been changing early 6800PRM coze I thought thats when the can lost power.. but not next time

LSD here I come...
Someone answer this?
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94909

[Sexc86]

I think man you should look at some good tires as well... if not before your lsd.

[Sexc86]

105wkw. 14.5, 100mph, 2.3 60foot, show trim, street tyres

[Lukezen27]

OK update and progress with new tyrers (DUNLOP DIREZZA DZ101) but the camber is way out, camber kit on its way though.

PB but not by much lol

First Time 25/06/2008

R/T.... ...762
60'..... 2.551
330'....6.575
660'....9.731
MPH....79.23
1000..12.412
ET.....14.694
MPH....98.66
K/MH..158.78

Second Time 23/07/2008
R/T.... ...779
60'..... 2.514
330'....6.626
660'....9.810
MPH....78.63
1000..12.538
ET.....14.813
MPH....99.25
K/MH..159.73

Third Time 24/09/2008

R/T.... ...900
60'..... 2.357
330'....6.438
660'....9.594
MPH....79.57
1000..12.302
ET.....14.586
MPH....98.79
K/MH..158.99

Note my MPH is slower on my PB than the other runs

[tekung89]

lol take it to 7.5k every gear man, it can do it. i've tried =D lol. u can hit low 14's all day long by the looks of ur mph. practice some more

[Lukezen27]

lol take it to 7.5k every gear man, it can do it. i've tried =D lol. u can hit low 14's all day long by the looks of ur mph. practice some more

lol

Na I'm losing boost that high and in turn lose power

How's you Turbo Civic anyway man?

[EG5]

Mph is slower because u ran 2.3 60ft . its normal
Faster 60ft = slower MPH and better ET

[beeza]

Well done Luke!

[Lukezen27]

Ok Guys

I've now added a real CAI
http://www.doubledynasystems.com/Car/new_piping3.jpg

So that should give me a 10kw again :)

Dyno with bonnet up 128ATW

Dyon with bonnet down 118ATW

Not tested this yet but I feels better already

[beeza]

Awesome Luke but when did the CIA get in ya bonnet? hahahaha :)

Awesome mod mate.

[[ricer]]

Dyno with bonnet up 128ATW

Dyon with bonnet down 118ATW



dude that just means u need massive speed holes in ur bonnet!
or WRX intercooler scoop! lol

i dont think cause your pod filter is there ur going to gain 10kw anyway... ur engine bay is still going to get very hot and will heat up all ur intake pipes...

who did the intake for you? hakan? looks abit like limbo set up...

do u even hear ur car fluttering anymore with that extra piping?

[Lukezen27]

;2013569']dude that just means u need massive speed holes in ur bonnet!
or WRX intercooler scoop! lol

i dont think cause your pod filter is there ur going to gain 10kw anyway... ur engine bay is still going to get very hot and will heat up all ur intake pipes...

who did the intake for you? hakan? looks abit like limbo set up...

do u even hear ur car fluttering anymore with that extra piping?

Found some $15 buck piping bends at Just Jap and ****ed round till they fited then got my mate to weld that one bit,, less than $100 all up :thumbsup:

Yeah fluttering sounds well wicked now heheh

Don't need any vents anymore as filter is right in the front bumper

[Aza]

isnt CIA meant to be CAI (cold air intake?)

looks nice though man, take it back down the track!

[beeza]

Not Central Intelligence Agency? :)

[Lukezen27]

isnt CIA meant to be CAI (cold air intake?)

looks nice though man, take it back down the track!

Yes

lol beeza

[beeza]

hehehe

It caught my eye ;)

[Weq]

;2013569']i dont think cause your pod filter is there ur going to gain 10kw anyway... ur engine bay is still going to get very hot and will heat up all ur intake pipes...


The turbo charger heats up the intake charge alot more then any ambient (including CAI) will. Plus 60-80deg.

Or isntead of a CAI you could spend that money on a properly speced out core for your intercooler... Ebay might seem like a good idea, but its costing you hP.

[Lukezen27]

The turbo charger heats up the intake charge alot more then any ambient (including CAI) will. Plus 60-80deg.

Or isntead of a CAI you could spend that money on a properly speced out core for your intercooler... Ebay might seem like a good idea, but its costing you hP.

Alex got me my intercooler is not an eBay one..

[Limbo]

Ricer - i heard that, i gave him the idea but i didn't do it.
You know my work is shortest possible route anyway.

Comon luke down to the 1/4 mile tomorrow!

maybe you can drive your car without a bonnet? LOL

[Lukezen27]

Ricer - i heard that, i gave him the idea but i didn't do it.
You know my work is shortest possible route anyway.

Comon luke down to the 1/4 mile tomorrow!

maybe you can drive your car without a bonnet? LOL

Can't make it now :(

Bens not coming and it was his helmet I was using

[TODA AU]

Can't make it now :(

Bens not coming and it was his helmet I was using

Excuses... Pffft...
There's one on the wall at the workshop you can borrow any time... :p

[Lukezen27]

Excuses... Pffft...
There's one on the wall at the workshop you can borrow any time... :p

lol Adrain

I didn't know that :p

Getting a new one for Christmas off my Mum so I won't have to worry about finding one each week :thumbsup:

[myztery]

where do you get the helmet from??? i need one to fit a fob..lol