5 lugs conversion or aftermarket bigger front brake upgrade

[jesmine0]

Hi, I am wondering which brake upgrade would be better? It will go into EK.
Here are the two choice and the pros and cons that I could think of.
But stil can't make any decision yet!!

1. Using ITR 5 lug conversion for front and rear. Of cos I will get bigger rotor and bigger brake.
Con:
- hard to source them
- Need a new 5 stud wheels
- Cost about $1300

Pros:
- Better in handling and brake.
- There are more choice, and sizes of aftermarket rims that able to fix. Mostly, 4 stud wheel, 4x100 limited to 17"

2. Using aftermarket front brake upgrade only. I will be using Wilwood Dynalite Big Brake Front Hat Kits 140-6163. It use "Forged billet Dynalite calipers with PolyMatrix brake pads, machined aluminum hats, and 12.19" diameter vented iron rotors exemplify high-tech style and track ready performance" from wilwood website.
Besides, I am thinking taking off the stock front rotor and caliper, and swap them to the rear smaller rotor and caliper. With this, I am able to change both(Not sure it will do 100%).
Con:
- Hard to source (But I found one with cheaper price than 5 stud conversion)
- the rims always limited to smaller 17". (I wish to have 18". but mostly, they are 5x114)

Pros:
- I can use my stock rims until I afford to change a new sets of rims.
- Better 4 piston caliper gives ultimate clamping force.
- Easy to change over comparing to 5 studs.

For me, I like second choice!! but I like 5 stud as well. Can't make any decision. What do you think?

Just slightly background, I am thinking of doing K swap into EK within next 6-12 months (Still collecting parts at the moment). So I wish to have better brake system. Cos for a stock or slightly upgraded ek, 5 stud will do a very excellent jobs.

Thanks for any input

[90LAN]

best if u get 36 mm 5 stud hub from 98 spec type r tegs
so u can use the 36mm drive shafts when u do k swap
other than that save your money until u do conversion imo

[jesmine0]

Yeah. That what I am thinking. But some US company are making this axles which fix the k20 with stock ek hub with reasonable price tho.

[eg5civic]

well i'm interested in upgrading brakes but i'm not too keen on doing the 5 stud conversion...

when i swap my motor its only going to be a b16 or b18 but i wanted to get the brakes out of the way first... would the wilwood (kit as above) or something of a similar brand work and can u swap the front stock caliper to the back?

[defect]

I dont think you can just swap the front calipers to the rear. I could be wrong, but anyhow...

why dont you just do the fronts? I got dc2r calipers, 282mm rotors redrilled to 4x100, ITR brake booster & Mc, braided brake lines for $650. you can pretty much swap them over without any modications. besides redrilling your rotors :>

for 5 lug, theres other ways around it without using ITR 5 lug, with abit of modication. think you can use prelude/crv items which are both 5 stud. I didnt go with 5 lug mainly because I already got 2 sets of rims I want in 4x100, also noticed, there arent much 5 lug 15", like you said, more choice of rims for 5 lug when they are 17"+, I didnt want to run anything bigger than 16s.

eg5civic; cheap brake upgrade for you would be to get EK brakes, you will need new stub axles(hub) from EK though. its not a overkilled upgrade :>

[scyt7e]

wilwood is a bolt on kit, it'll work inregardless what setup your using now or later, the b18c driveshafts or b16a will fit the hub of your ek1,ek4 unless you try to run a JDM dc2r driveshaft then tough luck, if anything its just the brackets you worry about when fitting the wilwood to a 240 or 262 mm setup, of which wilwood also manufacture to bolt on to almost all honda's i run wilwood on my ek at the moment and more than enough. i can get you wilwoods for any setup too if you need, can make you custom brackets even if necessary :thumbsup:

[nd55]

5 lug upgrade is your choice.

For OEM upgrades:

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=29191
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1811368&page=1


The Wilwood kit won't necessarily improve braking distances and will have legality issues because they don't have dust covers.


If your staying 4 lug, then
1996 ITR front rotors, OEM 4x113 PCD - need redrilling
and
mini2 rear rotors 4x100 PCD, size is good, offset is close. I think.

Nick.

[jesmine0]

Thank for the input.
I think I will go for JDM 5 lug upgrade. Since I will be doing k swap, the hub can fix dc5 axles easily.

But they are so hard to source especially in WA!!!

[Migoreng_Noodles]

Why won't wilwood improve braking distances? Please explain.

I'm planning on running DC2 Rears and Wilwood fronts with ITR Booster/MC so I can stick to 4x100. No reason why that isn't the same if not better than 5 lug ITR upgrade...

[Mr_will]

Why won't wilwood improve braking distances? Please explain.

I'm planning on running DC2 Rears and Wilwood fronts with ITR Booster/MC so I can stick to 4x100. No reason why that isn't the same if not better than 5 lug ITR upgrade...

because on the street, as long as your stock brakes can lock up the wheels, you cant shorted your braking distances.

it would be more effective in reducing braking distances to buy better tyres.

on the track however, the wilwoods would surely be more resistant to fade, and thus your braking distances would be more consistent. but they will never be shorter. braking distance is as much a function of how much grip you have, as how good your brakes are

[scyt7e]

Thank for the input.
I think I will go for JDM 5 lug upgrade. Since I will be doing k swap, the hub can fix dc5 axles easily.

But they are so hard to source especially in WA!!!

not true... i've seen two done in two months :thumbsup:

anyway with regards to wilwoods, without abs the locking theory works well, however i think with larger brakes such as wilwood, the pedal travel time/slowing down time before you lock improves significantly?????

[Cvik_ryda]

go 5 stud man if you want to bling it up later theres also plenty of aftermarket brakes for the 5 stud. i cant comment on the Willwood since i dont have a set but oem 5 stud is fantastic.

[nd55]

> Why won't wilwood improve braking distances?

As Mr Will mentioned, the tyres are the limiting factor.
Assuming your current brakes can lock up the tyres, then bigger brakes will not improve on this.

IMHO Bigger brakes deliver improved fade resistance, however there are some good higher temperature brake pads out there which can improve on the fading of your current brake package.

This is only really relevant if taking your hotrod to the track

Before you spend the $$$, consider upgrading your pads to something like Ferodo DS2000 or Formula Ferodo front, stock or equivalent rears.

> I am thinking of doing K swap into EK within next 6-12 months

Stay away from the Wilwood kit if you wish to get the swap engineered.

Uprated brakes will be necessary with the bigger motor, as a guide you'll need brakes equivalnet to the vehicle from which the engine was sourced.

ITR Front and rear is a good package.

RE: ITR 5 lug parts.

The 36mm axle JDM ITR 5 lug parts are identical to the CRV, from memory.

Nick.

[jesmine0]

em yeah. thats right.

But also dun forget couple of things.
1. there is always some distance that your car had traveled, before your car reaching the full lock up condition. For example, ur car is now travelling at 130 km/h, you break so hard!!! But, your brake will not lock up straight away. It will continue travel for 20m and reach 60km/h, then the break achieve full lockup condition. Now, we can says that the distance traveled between both lock up condition is the same.

2. The wilwood caliper have 4 pistons. So, it will have much more and better clamping force comparing to single piston caliper. Besides, these clamping force will distributed equally between the brake pads. Let says the clamping force is 2 times larger than stock one piston caliper. using the example above, a car is now using wilwood kits and travelling at 130 km/h. It might continue to travel for 10m before it reach the full lockup condition (the clamping force on pads is bigger). So, the distance traveled is improved.

3. Besides, the full lock up condition for wilwood might be improved to says 80 km/h, which means your brake will lock up quicker than stock and reducing the total travelled distance for 130km/h car.

Thats just my point of view. It make sense in engineering way. But not sure it happens in reality!! Please correct me if i am wrong.

Cheers.

[thebob]

You are going to get what you paid for in regard's to a willwood kit, if you pay less then a $1000 dont expect much. Spoon has been done to death but still works, or you could pay more and get Endless or maybe AP, Stoptech.