Need suggestions on modifying an EK VTi-R with 10K budget!

[SiR CRX]

This thread is being posted on behalf of a mate. He was going to join up and start the thread himself but his computer has crapped it.

He has recently bought a really clean 2000 model EK VTi-R coupe with a few mods such as suspension, exhaust, wheels, 5 stud conversion and intake. It's pretty stock apart from that but in really nice condition and drives really well. He has landed a new job with really good pay and wants to put some money into his car. The car will not be used on the track and is driven daily so can't be too extreme. He has told me he wants to spend a maximum of 10K to make the car faster and better all round. I have come to you to help him decide what to do with the money as my knowledge on these cars is limited and I am out of the loop with how much things cost these days.

I have suggested a better clutch, lightened flywheel, better exhaust and maybe a B18C conversion but I honestly don't know how much these things cost and if they will blow the budget.

So, my question to you is, if you had this car and 10K to spend, what would you do to it?

I don't want any sex spec crap posted as he is not interested in making the car bling down the road. His main interest is performance and reliability so please make suggestions while keeping that in the back of your mind.

Thanks a lot guys :honda:

[EKVTIR-T]

K Swap or
Semi built with boost or
Sell and use money to buy a better car :)

[SiR CRX]

Thanks bud.

He doesn't want to sell the car. It took him ages to find such a clean example and he really is in love with it.

Can you elaborate a bit on your answers?

How much for a K swap and would it be reliable?
Would brakes etc need to be upgraded with a K swap?
As far as turbo goes, would it be reliable as long as the motor was strong enough?

[EKVTIR-T]

A K swap would eat up the whole budget pretty much.
Also you have the choice of K20a or the K24 motors.
K swap might make anywhere from 120-160kw atw with mods.
Boosting the current B16 motor would make more power usually with that budget.
A stock K swap could be said to be more reliable than b series with boost but it's depends on alot of variables.

Brake upgrade would be advisable too.

[SiR CRX]

Will a K swap affect handling in a negative way?
Any advantages in choosing the K24 over the K20A?

Thanks a lot for your help. I will send my mate this info tomorrow so keep the suggestions coming.

[EKVTIR-T]

There's lots of info on this site if you do some searching :)

K24 can't rev as high as type R K20a but has great torque.
On Hondatech.com you can probably find the weight of each motor.I'm not sure off the top of my head.

[VTi_b0i]

you mean honda-tech.com :p

[SiR CRX]

Thanks guys. I will do some reading later on and see what I can find. If it's not too much trouble I would still like a few more suggestions regarding brakes and stuff.

[EKVTIR-T]

You mentioned it has 5 stud conv.?
We would assume it has type r brakes?
If so then a decent pad/rotor set up should be ok.

[SiR CRX]

Yeah i'm pretty sure it does have Type R brakes. So these will be sufficient then, that should save some dough.

[XP02ED]

upgrade the engine to a b20 or b18c7 with the bolt ons

a k series swap will cost u over 10k. 15k is where u woul dbe looking at for a k swap

[Zdster]

As stated, a K series swap will be in far excess of his budget.

There are two routes he could go (IMO). He could drop a new engine in (and eat up his entire budget) OR could think about boosting the B series and adding handling mods.

I would look at improving handling (suspension, tyres, strut/sway braces etc) and then think about boosting the car (or doing some more NA mods) and have a great handling and fun car to drive.

[Mr_will]

sell the B16A, buy a B18CR. get intake/header/exhaust, aftermarket ecu with a good tune, swaybars, coilovers and good tyres.

if he has anything left over after that (unlikely) get a recaro or two

[Zdster]

sell the B16A, buy a B18CR. get intake/header/exhaust, aftermarket ecu with a good tune, swaybars, coilovers and good tyres.

if he has anything left over after that (unlikely) get a recaro or two

You wouldnt even be able to afford all that. The engine plus tune will run you in the ten mark if done correctly.

[Mr_will]

i dunno,

eg http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92150

and he might get 1000 for his b16a, so he'd have $4k left over.(assuming he provides the labour himself...)

Would probably have to choose between coilovers and swaybars, or i/h/e

[moo moo nel]

you need EK9 pedals
the stock Ek4 one sucks

[outatime]

bore/stroke and port polish the engine
make the final drive ratio to be even on all gears
replace ecu with hondata s200 and get it tuned by toda
replace cams with ek9 or toda
get new exedy heavy duty clutch and toda lightened flywheel
get the latest Cusco coilovers
replace oem seats with Recarro/Sparco/Bride seats
get 6000k hi/low hid kit
replace the block with a b20 so he'll get a b16/b20 hybrid

[Mr_will]

make the final drive ratio to be even on all gears


please explain

[outatime]

please explain

he needs a mechanic to do that. i dont know exactly what it's called but making the powerband the same on all gears so when you shift you dont lose much power or accelaration.. i think they call it 4.7 final drive ratio something like that. usually on first and second gear the engine gets louder quickly so you shift up. with a good final gear it's all even. (what's that called again ben?)

[Mr_will]

he needs a mechanic to do that

i meant explain what you mean by 'make the final drive ratio to be even on all gears'

the final drive ratio is fixed at say, 4.7. it does not change depending on what gear youre in




still waiting on this explanation

[SiR CRX]

The paint is immaculate so why would he want to respray the car? Like I said he wants performance.

The suspension he has are height/damper adjustable so I think these are good enough for the moment.

So far it looks like there are 3 realistic options.

Keep the B16A and build it up n/a.
Convert to B18CR and add headers etc
Add a turbo and build motor for strength.

[LUD35]

ok this is my opinion - im biased btw

I would tell him to save his money for another couple of months until he has time and money to do a k-swap. totally worth it in my opinion, my swap cost me around the $13,000 mark. you can do it cheaper if you know where to look for motors ;) but yep totally worth it :D

personally...i would'nt build up the b16 N/A. good motors, but if hes just landed a really good job then he might spend 10k on the b16...and be disappointed with its power/torque - thus this might make him spend more money on another motor.

the b18cr is a good motor, and is pretty unbeleivable performance at stock - plus with future mods can be built to be a monster boosted or crazy N/A. good idea in my opinion if he decides not to wait for a k swap.

Adding a turbo is ok..but 10k is pretty small budget for a DECENT(IMO) turbo build. i personally would budget at least 12-13k without labour for a good turbo b16 - that being said if he has some mechanical experience he might be able to do it himself and save alot of money.

thats my 2 cents. as i said im biased lol just depends on what he wants.

And FYI - k20's and k24's are pretty light motors and arent that much heavier than a b series. i upgraded from a b16 to a k24 frankenstien and cannot tell the difference in handling.

[outatime]

is that for everything LUD35? 13k for parts and labour?

[barefootbonzai]

is the 10k for total modification of the car or just on motor goodies?

Need to plan your stuff carefully or 10k will dissapear very quickly.

[SiR CRX]

Ok well after doing a lot of reading i'm going to tell him to stop being a tight arse and do a K swap. These motor's are unreal (why i'm getting a DC5S) but I thought they were far more expensive than they are. The car is nicely balanced as it is, just needs more power and it will be perfect.

So what else should I tell him to do when doing a K swap? Lightened flywheel and better clutch? Gearbox upgrades?

[Limbo]

boosted ek4....
You'll still have abit of money to spend later.
K is good but its still doesn;t compare with boost

[jesmine0]

K-swap!!

Even tho it eat urs 13k on K-swap, but dun forget, u can sell ur b-motor for at least 3-4k (2000 model). Overall, you are spending 9k.

If you want more torque, go for k24 and its much cheaper way of getting k.
Or, you can go for aus dc5-R k20a2 which appear to be cheaper comparing to jdm dc5R, k20a which worth 8k itself.

[xtercii]

bore/stroke and port polish the engine
make the final drive ratio to be even on all gears
replace ecu with hondata s200 and get it tuned by toda
replace cams with ek9 or toda
get new exedy heavy duty clutch and toda lightened flywheel
get the latest Cusco coilovers
replace oem seats with Recarro/Sparco/Bride seats
get ek9 spoiler
do a full ek9 facelift (headlights, grille, front bar, fenders, fog lights)
get 6000k hi/low hid kit
if anything is left, have the car resprayed
optional - replace the block with a b20 so he'll get a b16/b20 hybrid

sorry to say this but you sound pretty lost, what's "make the final drive ratio to be even on all gears"

how do you fit ek9 spoiler on a coupe? and being a coupe it's already face lifted...and finally what's the resrpay for? he wants performance not appearance...

[egSi]

k swap? :confused:

wtf? Is that the only mod 'allowed' nowadays or something?


imo do a lil bit of work in each area; suspension, motor, brakes. Then the goal will be reached, better car overall.

if its 5 luggin, doesnt it already have larger than stock em1 brakes?

[94dc2tegz]

sorry to say this but you sound pretty lost, what's "make the final drive ratio to be even on all gears"

i'm just guessing here... but i THINK he means...

make all the gears a 4.7?.... even though thats the ratio

his mechanic was probably explaining lowering finial drive to him and he just retained the number 4.7 lol

but yea, i would like do this too in the near future as long as $$$ permits.

when people are talking about lowering finial drives and such and mention 4.7 around here they're normally talking about dropping in a ITR 98 spec gearbox which comes with LSD of course, so clear advantages there.

when u lower ur final drive and opt for a close gear box ur basically using ur rev range in a shorter distance? (if that makes sense)

ie wen u shift ur rev's will fall right? and lower the rpm = less power cuz ur out of ur powerband. so if ur rev's are higher all round then u'd always b in a better rpm. (i'm pretty bad at explaining this too so it seems lol)

inshort - increase acceleration not power


But yea, in my opinion i'd tell ur friend to use some of his 10K to fix his comp and do some research for himself. No one else can tell him what to do.

they can only suggest and i'm sure u'd get pretty tired of pitching ideas to him cuz he'll probably reject 90% of it and then OH! in hindsight that was a good idea what was it again? naaah... wait... what about this.... uh.. well..

lol.. you get the idea

Don't set a 10K limit.... like everyone here has suggested a K swap but awww... it's slightly more than 10K so can't do it right?

Just research and think whats the best mod for himself and then the rest will come afterwards. there's no need to rush (ie getting his buddy to post for him cuz his comp is temporarily out of action is kinda rushing it - not attacking you:p ur a good friend)

but yea... there's always the standard i/h/e, ecu+tune. throw in a fly n' HD clutch and i think he'd b happy.

[outatime]

sorry to say this but you sound pretty lost, what's "make the final drive ratio to be even on all gears"

how do you fit ek9 spoiler on a coupe? and being a coupe it's already face lifted...and finally what's the resrpay for? he wants performance not appearance...

am i? ek vtir is a hatch not a coupe.

respray is optional if anything is left.



i'm just guessing here... but i THINK he means...

make all the gears a 4.7?.... even though thats the ratio

his mechanic was probably explaining lowering finial drive to him and he just retained the number 4.7 lol

but yea, i would like do this too in the near future as long as $$$ permits.

when people are talking about lowering finial drives and such and mention 4.7 around here they're normally talking about dropping in a ITR 98 spec gearbox which comes with LSD of course, so clear advantages there.

when u lower ur final drive and opt for a close gear box ur basically using ur rev range in a shorter distance? (if that makes sense)

ie wen u shift ur rev's will fall right? and lower the rpm = less power cuz ur out of ur powerband. so if ur rev's are higher all round then u'd always b in a better rpm. (i'm pretty bad at explaining this too so it seems lol)



thank you for the explanation! that's what i'm tryin to say but couldnt find the right words! lol

[EK1.6LCIV]

For 10k, this is simply my 2c, get the CTR cams from a B16B, adjustable cam gears, Type R valves and springs, CTR Pistons, A heavy duty clutch and lightened flywheel, Toda Headers, New exhaust sytem to suit (most decent muffler shops can make you one for a fraction of the complete items forsale from Japan and to proper EPA laws and sound dB levels). Go and then get this all tuned and installed. Some comfy seats with good bolster support, not saying ITR/CTR recaros as they are dear and prob as old as the car imo, you want something newer, get that mod plated and based if you want to carry passengers in the back again, I would suggest removing the rear seats and belts and runing harnesses to your new front seats and seeing one of the hundreds of engineers and getting it mod plated. Even with all this you'd have some change left for some decent rubber for your tyres and possibly some decent 16" wheels. As for the Kswap it's unreal, seen some very nice examples around and it's what I'd love to do, 10k is the wrong budget try 18k. $7500 for a good half cut from a Type R/S Integra then around 8k for the right parts then you need it all tuned and fitted.

[SiR CRX]

am i? ek vtir is a hatch not a coupe

Read the thread.

The car is a coupe not a hatch and yes it's a VTi-R.

[outatime]

Read the thread.

The car is a coupe not a hatch and yes it's a VTi-R.

enuf said. well scrap these from my list then:


get ek9 spoiler
do a full ek9 facelift (headlights, grille, front bar, fenders, fog lights)
if anything is left, have the car resprayed

[scyt7e]

i'm just guessing here... but i THINK he means...

make all the gears a 4.7?.... even though thats the ratio

his mechanic was probably explaining lowering finial drive to him and he just retained the number 4.7 lol

but yea, i would like do this too in the near future as long as $$$ permits.

when people are talking about lowering finial drives and such and mention 4.7 around here they're normally talking about dropping in a ITR 98 spec gearbox which comes with LSD of course, so clear advantages there.

when u lower ur final drive and opt for a close gear box ur basically using ur rev range in a shorter distance? (if that makes sense)

ie wen u shift ur rev's will fall right? and lower the rpm = less power cuz ur out of ur powerband. so if ur rev's are higher all round then u'd always b in a better rpm. (i'm pretty bad at explaining this too so it seems lol)

inshort - increase acceleration not power


But yea, in my opinion i'd tell ur friend to use some of his 10K to fix his comp and do some research for himself. No one else can tell him what to do.

they can only suggest and i'm sure u'd get pretty tired of pitching ideas to him cuz he'll probably reject 90% of it and then OH! in hindsight that was a good idea what was it again? naaah... wait... what about this.... uh.. well..

lol.. you get the idea

Don't set a 10K limit.... like everyone here has suggested a K swap but awww... it's slightly more than 10K so can't do it right?

Just research and think whats the best mod for himself and then the rest will come afterwards. there's no need to rush (ie getting his buddy to post for him cuz his comp is temporarily out of action is kinda rushing it - not attacking you:p ur a good friend)

but yea... there's always the standard i/h/e, ecu+tune. throw in a fly n' HD clutch and i think he'd b happy.


lol i understood that, in a gearbox you have your gears and then theres the final drive, which is this massive gear piece in the gearbox, changing that brings all the ratios closer if that makes sense

i.e your 2nd gear ends at a lower speed in a 4.7 fd than previously with a 4.4 fd
so you get better acceleration at the sacrifice of your top speed

i hope i made some sense

alternatively you can change just a gear ratio which is those offered by Mfactory

and why ppl opt for a whole gearbox instead is because it comes with LSD and the cost to get a final drive + get lsd + labour exceeds the cost of a b18cR box which is the only one with a higher drive anyway the ek9's have the same ratio as the ek4's just with lsd [99 spec could be different???]

anyway with 10k, just spend money on susssy first, drive the shit out of the b16a, if/when it dies or once he gets a hang of things then get a b18cR unless hes one hell of a driver in the first place, but i'ld do that if i were him :thumbsup:

[VT1-R]

Get b18CR.. say $7k installed.. Perth rates.. Sell ur motor perth rates for bout $2.5k-$3k.. i tink i noe this car.. b16a is under 100km so its gd..

then use remain $3k to get toda headers, toda cat($1.5k-$2k) to match the catback already on.. Sussy is done so dun bother.. Do a nice CAI (Cheap $150 one will do) if u dun have any... And tune with a standalone ECU ($1k+$500).. tat will be about it..

with this stuff done.. mid 13s is doable..

[Limo]

um.. why are most ppl jumping straight for a engine swap?the car already has a b16a which is a very good base point to build on (either boost or N/A). if so, he is better of selling the car and getting another(cheaper model) and doing the engine swap and upgrade the other parts to suit. brakes/suspension/gauages etc

had the same dilema when i first got my car, since i already had a b16a, i chose boost it and not swap it cos alot of the cars value is in the engine.if i was doing a swap to a b16, b18, k20 etc thats a diff story, then id spend the extra money and get the better engine

[90LAN]

best way to make up your mind
is to go in or test drive as many set ups as possible to see which one u like
or get a 1.8/1.9 stroker kit bigger cams,pistons,and tune
or b18cr motor with cams and tune
k is out of reach if u are asking what u can spend 10 k on
as if u knew u would of already spend it

[EKVTIR-T]

With an engine swap don't forget the extra $$ he will get for the current engine.
2-3k?

[Limbo]

a decent K is 8-10K. If he gets 10K installed that would be cheap.

2-3K to play with afterwards will do little.

b20 or boost would be cheaper and it would be better than a stock K20, making more power with money to spare on other mods.

[VT1-R]

Read the thread.

The car is a coupe not a hatch and yes it's a VTi-R.

by saying ek vti-R ppl would mistake for the ek4.. the vti-R coupe is the Em1..lol.. cant blame him..

[outatime]

by saying ek vti-R ppl would mistake for the ek4.. the vti-R coupe is the Em1..lol.. cant blame him..

yes that's what i've thought, i immediately jumped it was an ek4 without reading thoroughly..lol

[evoline]

i would settle with the car the way it is at the moment.
dont be too hasty with your budget.
appreciate the stockness of the car first, and then later down the track, you can decide what needs improving/changing.
even if you dont spend all that 10k budget.
3-5k spent in the right way is better than splurging 10k on shit you dont want/need.

[94dc2tegz]

^^^

agreed.

[EK1.6LCIV]

pics of car?

[kayot1k]

tell your friend to save his money and buy a REAL car? save yourself time later down the track trying to sell your car for a ridiculous value people wouldnt think twice about paying? i.e mid-high 20k's for a civic with k-swap?

[Crapdaz]

8k to boost the phuq outta it.
2k for getting it road legal.

[evoline]

hey, you heard the man. he loves his EM1's.
but spending 10k on something that will depreciate might be a bit silly unless you seriously plan to keep it forever till it dies.

[xtercii]

some ppl still don't get it, modifying cars is a hobby, not an investment...
u r spending the money to buy the experience and for your own enjoyment...
just like u spend thousands on a trip, what do you get out of? do you get the money back?

[evoline]

some ppl still don't get it, modifying cars is a hobby, not an investment...
u r spending the money to buy the experience and for your own enjoyment...
just like u spend thousands on a trip, what do you get out of? do you get the money back?

and youre absolutely right.
what im trying to say is that when you spend "X" amount of money on a car worth "Y", you get "Z" amount of enjoyment. Just saying that the ratio between X:Y:Z should be sensible.
i'm not saying spending 10k on an EM1 will be a stupid option, but he hasn't had his precious car for that long, and he wouldn't truely appreciate each mod if he just went all out at once with a shopping list.

Hope this wasn't confusing :P

[xtercii]

you are right doing things step by step it more fun and gives you a better idea and understanding of your own car, also gives you time to think about how you like to modify it...

[eg5civic]

I can see where evoline is coming from here

I am only an apprentice so saving money is a slow process meaning buying car parts is an even slower one.... Now that i'm approching the time of ordering coilovers and rear sway/brace combo its going to be a big thing for me and something that will have to last a while....

I'd rather modify slowly as evoline said and appreciate what each modification does to the car

[paps02]

96 vti coupe' which is SOHC. and if i had a spare 10g i would go straight to turboing my car.

so engine rebuild/forged internals,
nice loud exhaust
strong clutch,
stronger gearbox,
some good suspension, breaks,
turbo it to something around 1bar(to start) and slowly raise it as the need for speed increases.

but if he dosnt want to go that hard out. maybe do some cosmetic stuff aka bodykit, lights, rims, grills and turn it into more of a showy car

[eg5civic]

96 vti coupe' which is SOHC. and if i had a spare 10g i would go straight to turboing my car.

so engine rebuild/forged internals,
nice loud exhaust
strong clutch,
stronger gearbox,
some good suspension, breaks,
turbo it to something around 1bar(to start) and slowly raise it as the need for speed increases.

but if he dosnt want to go that hard out. maybe do some cosmetic stuff aka bodykit, lights, rims, grills and turn it into more of a showy car

Its a 2000 VTI-R :P B16A paps :P

[hisoka]

buy a jun head kit and a new computer management system, thats half your money gone then new clutch and suspension and wheels

[paps02]

Its a 2000 VTI-R :P B16A paps :P

yer i forgot to write at the very start of my speel that...

yer hes got an awesome car. myself i have a...................

p.s you can still do that stuff i said hahha

[SiR CRX]

96 vti coupe' which is SOHC. and if i had a spare 10g i would go straight to turboing my car.

so engine rebuild/forged internals,
nice loud exhaust
strong clutch,
stronger gearbox,
some good suspension, breaks,
turbo it to something around 1bar(to start) and slowly raise it as the need for speed increases.

but if he dosnt want to go that hard out. maybe do some cosmetic stuff aka bodykit, lights, rims, grills and turn it into more of a showy car

Thanks for suggestions but as I have stated he is only interested in performance. JDM is his style so he doesn't really want a showy bodykit and rims.

I talked to him the other day and he is considering a B18CR conversion and sell the B16A. Should be nice if he does it and I will get pics soon.

[evoline]

tell him to pm me if he wants to sell the B16A :rolleyes:

[cvicek]

tell him to pm me if he wants to sell the B16A :rolleyes:

Good time to work out a deal now ! :P :thumbsup:

[VT1-R]

lol.. he is in perth.. bring a b16a there is so expensive.. and engines in perth are more expensive.. Eastern States have all the goodies..lol..

[Fo55il]

Before your mate goes spaztix BOOSTING or gettin K swap. Check with your local road pplz. Engineering can be a bitch sumtyms.
Lack of "question asking" can result in the budget being blown out hard.

If u can get sum1 to do EVERYTHING for you. swap, engineering Go for that instead of seperate ppl because fingers can be pointed but nothing achieved, in the end only you losing out on money.

Personally if i had monies (for u willz) like that id go k boost.

Good luck

[4age8u]

agree

[Fo55il]

rep? lol

[aimre]

Turbo

[/thread]

[delsol9000rpms]

fully built b20 high comp bottom end+ b16a head+stage 2 cams or so+ valvetrain+porting the head+computer + tune.... thats the best way you can spend your moneyy... run low 13's no probs