DC2 B18C2 v. EM1 B16v. EK4 B16A ?

[jaydenn]

Hi guys,

Just wanted the Pros & Cons between the three... & which you would prefer & why?

Is it true that a B16A modded I/H/E gives 100kws atw? and the most it will run with mass mods? (excluding turbo)

[VT1-R]

b4 its gets deleted...

go the ek4.. coz i own 1.. em1 is next as it is sexy as... dc2 is last as audm dc2 vti-r is not all that wonderful except the torque..

a good b16a modded with gd quality I/h/e on a high reading dyno can make 100kw atw on a cool day..

b16a all mtr can run up to 120kw with bolt ons with b20 bottom end i tink.. search for zeforce.. he has b20 vtec.. which is made frm a b16a and a b20 CRV engine..

[bennjamin]

FYI the EM1 + EK4 B16a2 engines are exactly the same.
Just slightly more weight with the EM1.

b16 with bolt ons + b20 bottom end ? thats not a b16 its a 2.0l. Different thing.

What does peak power on a dyno matter ? its part of tuning not relevant on the real road / track / strip.

[andiiso]

on dyno my ek4 B16A2 ran 96.4kw atw (high reading dyno) stock ek4 is 88kw atw and my car has 180,000km on it .. so in average i would say on that dyno i ran stock power wid a muffler and home job intake pipe into stock airbox =] .. Ek4 ftw =p i like ek4 best outta them if i were gonna get a teg i would go straight for Type R (which is almost almost same price as em1 nowadaiis .. sorta) =p

[defect]

ek4 and em1 are same shit except coupe is heavier.
em1 has updated front end, theres no 99-00 ek4 in aus

[wasabi]

from my research ive found that the hatchback is actually heavier.

but i dont know as i logically thought the coupe was heavier.

EM1 = 1114 kg
EK4 = 1131 kg

correct me if im wrong.

Best handling would be the EK4.
Best looking IMO is the EM1 (obviously i chose this one)
Most power and Torque would be DC2.

[dsp26]

b4 its gets deleted...

go the ek4.. coz i own 1.. em1 is next as it is sexy as... dc2 is last as audm dc2 vti-r is not all that wonderful except the torque..

a good b16a modded with gd quality I/h/e on a high reading dyno can make 100kw atw on a cool day..

b16a all mtr can run up to 120kw with bolt ons with b20 bottom end i tink.. search for zeforce.. he has b20 vtec.. which is made frm a b16a and a b20 CRV engine..

why is that point supposed to be convincing???

[andiiso]

from my research ive found that the hatchback is actually heavier.

but i dont know as i logically thought the coupe was heavier.

EM1 = 1114 kg
EK4 = 1131 kg

correct me if im wrong.

Best handling would be the EK4.
Best looking IMO is the EM1 (obviously i chose this one)
Most power and Torque would be DC2.

if i remember correctly the kerb weight of ek4 was 1131 and em1 is 1147 or something similar, only bout 16kgs heavier or something .. around dat mark .. i was lookin that up at one stage thru the service manuals and i remember the em1 was 16kg or something little

[rawr]

Take it for a drive. I don't like the dc2 vtir. Prefer the ek4 for some reason =\

[mrwillz]

on dyno my ek4 B16A2 ran 96.4kw atw (high reading dyno) stock ek4 is 88kw atw and my car has 180,000km on it .. so in average i would say on that dyno i ran stock power wid a muffler and home job intake pipe into stock airbox =] .. Ek4 ftw =p i like ek4 best outta them if i were gonna get a teg i would go straight for Type R (which is almost almost same price as em1 nowadaiis .. sorta) =p

thats a happy dyno
isnt atw of b16's 80-85kw stock

[andiiso]

claimed 88kw atw .. but i think if u go put any car from factory on dyno itll never read wat they claimed either higher or lower

[wasabi]

well you cant have an exact stock figure.. you have to take into account the type of dyno the conditions etc.

but generally i think its around the 85kw (give or take a few kw) mark.

Although my mate went on the TODA dyno and he got 100 ATW lol.. stock motor done 240 000 ks..

[Spoon SiRG]

Bone stock comparison,the B16A is gutless unless get you get the VTEC going.With I/H/E it becomes a fun machine. Very motorcycle-like,revs very freely,you hear it,but only feel it at the end.

The B18C2 on the other hand has more response & torque. You dont have to rev it hard to get it going. And when you do rev it,it pulls harder than the B16A.

Revving it to redline however isn't as fun as the B16A,primarily because of the longer stroke,smoother VTEC x-over point,not as audible (B16A @ 5,500rpm/ B18C2 @ 4,400rpm & secondary intake opens around 5,800rpm), so you feel the power,but don't really hear it.

Having done identical mods to both engines (I/H/E/TB,Cams) with the Skunk2 IM for the B18C2 as the exception, the B18C2 will now scream like the B16A & still pull harder than it.

So if you want to have fun,get a B16A. If you want more guts,get a B18C2.

There is no replacement for displacement.

[czy_sol87]

mine pulled 92kw@w with i/h/e, with the tune it pulled 108kw@w, but thats on 2 different dyno
ps: my engine has bout 230xxx kms on it

[G-Stick]

mine pulled 92kw@w with i/h/e, with the tune it pulled 108kw@w, but thats on 2 different dyno
ps: my engine has bout 230xxx kms on it

but how fast is the car down the 1/4? is the place a happy dyno? thats a pretty good figure for those mods

[Spoon SiRG]

What does peak power on a dyno matter ? its part of tuning not relevant on the real road / track / strip.


High peak power on the dyno is great. But the B18C torque curve will always be better than the B16A.

[bennjamin]

But the B18C torque curve will always be better than the B16A.

totally agree. A B18c will always "feel" nicer to drive than a b16a.

[G-Stick]

yea the b18c wins :thumbsup: just get a b18c and slap on a b16a gear box or an Itr box and ur laughing

[wasabi]

yup b18 > b16 anyday.

lack of torque is shit.

[Spoon SiRG]

Ben is laughing,coz he's got the B18C"R" :D

But seriously the B16A is a great motor. Like I said,having one is more fun than the B18C2 IMO. If Honda didn't make it we wouldn't have the B18C. The B16A was the 1st VTEC motor to be engineered, initially put in the 89-91 JDM Tegs.

Respect the B16A :cool:

[VT1-R]

why is that point supposed to be convincing???

erm.. whats wrong with saying that on a high reading dyno its a higher chance to get 100kw atw on b16a with bolt ons? lol..

[andiiso]

well you cant have an exact stock figure.. you have to take into account the type of dyno the conditions etc.

but generally i think its around the 85kw (give or take a few kw) mark.

Although my mate went on the TODA dyno and he got 100 ATW lol.. stock motor done 240 000 ks..

yer, can never have an exact figure, thats y im saying Honda claimed it to be 88kw atw .. but its alwaiiz +/- but cos i only did mine on one dyno on a 16C morning and the dyno seemed to high read figures (other mates put cars on n read higher then wat usual did on previous dynos etc) i would average it out to bout 80-90 atw .. so fairly stock after 180,000km which im more then happy bout lol

[jaydenn]

yea the b18c wins :thumbsup: just get a b18c and slap on a b16a gear box or an Itr box and ur laughing

why a b16a gear box on a b18c motor? just curious.

by the way guys thanks for the feed back! I've driven a jdm teg R before when i lived in sydney it was a machine.. Never ever touched a EK or EM, apart from a EK4 with a D16 in it.

But thing is anyone know the common cons between the three? Great engines, common wear and tears?

[mrwillz]

gear ratio's on b16
WIN

[mrwillz]

a EK4 with a D16 in it.



u mean ek1 with d16

[Q_ball]

These comparison threads are ghey!
THERE IS NO COMPARISON!!!
b18cX > b16X anyday!!

[dupac->]

i > you quentin edit: anyday!!

QBALL EDIT: O RLY?! lol

[jaydenn]

These comparison threads are ghey!
THERE IS NO COMPARISON!!!
b18cX > b16X anyday!!

I am talking about the comparison of the car overall not just the engine i know for a fact that the b18 has more torque and power.

How much is a b16 gear box roughly? What if you have a EK4 and put in a TR box?

[Limbo]

b16 is better on fuel economy.
b18 has more torque for sure

I prefer ek4 (drives better in terms of handling). The em1 seems to drag its rear.

But the em1s usually have fresher engines as they were newer.....

boost any of them for lots of fun ;)

[G-Stick]

more economy? my dc2 gives more kms then my mates ek4


b16a boxs usually go for 600-800

[dupac->]

i > you quentin edit: anyday!!

QBALL EDIT: O RLY?! lol
thats just dirty.

lol

[jaydenn]

more economy? my dc2 gives more kms then my mates ek4


b16a boxs usually go for 600-800

Yo Duy!

How much is a full tank? and the capacity of the tank? K's?

I gotta take into account the fuel too nowadays, thats whats making me stop with the B16's. I want to be able to get 500k's out of a full tank if its possible for a B16a.

No VTEC'IN :(

[G-Stick]

no vtecing i can near 500, prob 480 ish.

[NightKids]

These comparison threads are ghey!
THERE IS NO COMPARISON!!!
b18cX > b16X anyday!!

B18C2 vs B16B?

[Q_ball]

B18C2 vs B16B?

No contest!
Jst cause it came out of an EK9 does not change the fact that its a gutless 1.6L.

As you quoted, i'd take ANY kind of b18c over any kind of b16 anytime. (stock for stock comparison)

[fatboyz39]

These comparison threads are ghey!
THERE IS NO COMPARISON!!!
b18cX > b16X anyday!!

i wouldn't say that qball...our b16a went 13.9 :wave::wave:. That is faster then b18c type R EG or b18c2 EG.

[Q_ball]

Yeh but your b16a was not a stock setup.

Keeping the variants constant;
ie. same car, same IHE combo, same sussy etc etc...

Stock for stock or both modded the same, the car with the b18 is gonna win.

[fatboyz39]

A b16b same bolt -ons will beat b18c2.

[fatboyz39]

Yeh but your b16a was not a stock setup.

.

But all components used in the b16a motor was OEM? wouldn't that be classified as stock setup? :o

[Q_ball]

A b16b same bolt -ons will beat b18c2.
b16b, with the same bolt ons/tune etc as a b18c2, will beat it? haha
Shiet driver? lol


But all components used in the b16a motor was OEM? wouldn't that be classified as stock setup? :o

Stock meaning untouched, unopened motor.
Straight from factory.

[fatboyz39]

[quote=Q_ball;1775596]b16b, with the same bolt ons/tune etc as a b18c2, will beat it? haha
Shiet driver? lol

I will confidently say the b16b will win.

[mrwillz]

1.6L for lyf q

[GSi_PSi]

isnt b16b typeR 200hp?

[VT1-R]

isnt b16b typeR 200hp?

b16b type R ek9 is 185hp..

[VT1-R]

i wouldn't say that qball...our b16a went 13.9 :wave::wave:. That is faster then b18c type R EG or b18c2 EG.

erm.. isit a b18CR eg suppose to run high 13s as well?? though b16a going 13.9 is really quick!!!

b18c torque curve can never be replaced... b16a is good but jus lack that extra 200c vital capacity.. it may well be that 200cc that matters in a drag race with our turbo counterparts...lol..

[CB7_OWNER]

Back to the topic...

I'd prefer the EM1..performance wise it would be the same as a EK4...as mentioned same engine....but it might not handle as good as an EK4 with the same susssy mod's....but i prefer the EM1 cause of its looks..over the EK4

[andiiso]

Yo Duy!

How much is a full tank? and the capacity of the tank? K's?

I gotta take into account the fuel too nowadays, thats whats making me stop with the B16's. I want to be able to get 500k's out of a full tank if its possible for a B16a.

No VTEC'IN :(

with my ek4, i get bout 450kms bfore my red light comes on and once red light on it means i got approx another 70-100kms depending on driving.

1 week i hit red light at 450kms and drove it another 40-50kms.. i went to fill up and only had 3 litres left in tank. This equals approx 8-9L/100km .. that week i drove pretty normal and only hit vtec bout 4-5times (doin the first gear second gear to 80km n then gear thru to 5th n cruise) ..
then the nex week i went up n down mt dandy a few times spirited, couple of drags and a couple vtec to speed limit and i got bout 400km when red light came on, i drove it another 20km(normal driving) and filled up and had 3litres left in tank which equals to approx 10L/100km ..

and i found it weird that it wasnt much difference in fuel for the conditions and way of driving for each week so yer i took notice of my fuel consumption everyweek and still am now and then just considered my driving conditoins etc that week and they all were approx same considering conditions. BTW i fill up every tuesday ! no matter how much petrol i got lolz. Unless of course one week i do more then usual

[mrwillz]

^ isnt that bad for ur GB
1st gear til 80 then str8 to fifth gear?

i've heard of synchro's fkn up requiring rebuilds

at least get into 3rd before 5th

(at least thats how i do it)

[magicmike]

^think he meant go through all the gears before cruising in 5th

[andiiso]

^ isnt that bad for ur GB
1st gear til 80 then str8 to fifth gear?

i've heard of synchro's fkn up requiring rebuilds

at least get into 3rd before 5th

(at least thats how i do it)

"doin the first gear second gear to 80km n then gear thru to 5th n cruise"

will lols :thumbdwn: .. i meant, 1st gear vtec (as if my first gear can hit 80 dude) and second then hit 80 and go thru the gears (still maintaining 80) and cruise at 80 in 5th like u would. just like u in merge lane u vtec first n second (not max rev 2nd just to 80) then cruise .. some ppl like to just slam it into 5th from 2nd i dont, i like to go thru my gears

[jaydenn]

wow these thread is coming along good.

in order to do a b16b conversion what would you need on top of the b16a?
and roughly how much is the price?

[G-Stick]

just get an eg and do a engine swap in it, eg plus b series = fun fun

[90LAN]

wow these thread is coming along good.

in order to do a b16b conversion what would you need on top of the b16a?
and roughly how much is the price?

u will just need b16b, gear box, ecu from a ek9
everything u can use
better to get 1.8 type r eng for the same price range

[jaydenn]

thing is i want to keep the original engine in the car and doing the i/h/e and a good gear box.

Not a fan of engine swaps as I don't have the capability to going that far for the time being. anyone have the quarter mile for the 3 bone stock>?

[rawr]

thing is i want to keep the original engine in the car and doing the i/h/e and a good gear box.

Not a fan of engine swaps as I don't have the capability to going that far for the time being. anyone have the quarter mile for the 3 bone stock>?

in what cars? and depending on the driver

EK4 b16a2 - low to mid 15s
Dc2 vtir - high 14s to low 15s

[dc2dc2dc2]

most important thing down 1/4 is the driver
not the car.

[jaydenn]

I know it depends on the driver :)

Just wanted a rough estimate.

Any other pros & cons for the 3 rides? Its been an argument between the b16s and b18s lol...

EM1s have crap interior heard a lot about this. How are the stock gear boxes? and other things to take into account?

[ekhybrid]

I know it depends on the driver :)

Just wanted a rough estimate.

Any other pros & cons for the 3 rides? Its been an argument between the b16s and b18s lol...

EM1s have crap interior heard a lot about this. How are the stock gear boxes? and other things to take into account?

hey listen mate,
how bout go test drive them

[mrwillz]

wots wrong with the interior of an em1?
i've never had a issue with it

[andiiso]

wots wrong with the interior of an em1?
i've never had a issue with it

uve got recaros etc lolz, nah ek4 has a special interior, no other civics at all had the same one, EM1 just got the normal civic interior .. not much of a big differene and some ppl out there arent a fan of the ek4 interior.

[G-Stick]

the problem with the em1 interior is because its grey, also the seats are like couchs. like andiiso said ur car got the ek9 treatment.

[mrwillz]

uve got recaros etc lolz, nah ek4 has a special interior, no other civics at all had the same one, EM1 just got the normal civic interior .. not much of a big differene and some ppl out there arent a fan of the ek4 interior.

well havent really got that much of ek9 treatment n exception of recaro

i was more thinking like the panels/doors/dash
its not all that bad

but facelift>prefacelift

[Spoon SiRG]

u will just need b16b, gear box, ecu from a ek9
everything u can use
better to get 1.8 type r eng for the same price range

For sure :thumbsup: B16B= Detuned B18CR

[bennjamin]

For sure :thumbsup: B16B= Detuned B18CR

more like B16B = de-stroked B18c7/c :)

[G-Stick]

well havent really got that much of ek9 treatment n exception of recaro

i was more thinking like the panels/doors/dash
its not all that bad

but facelift>prefacelift

did ur car come with the ek9 steering wheel and all or did the old owner sell it off? i remember ek9 interior. who knows

[mrwillz]

i do have the ek9 wheel

[infurNOS]

just get an eg and do a engine swap in it, eg plus b series = fun fun

Amen to that! coming from personal experience

[rbk_212]

from my research ive found that the hatchback is actually heavier.

but i dont know as i logically thought the coupe was heavier.

EM1 = 1114 kg
EK4 = 1131 kg

correct me if im wrong.

Best handling would be the EK4.
Best looking IMO is the EM1 (obviously i chose this one)
Most power and Torque would be DC2.

wow i didnt think civics were that heavy...

[infurNOS]

b4 its gets deleted...



b16a all mtr can run up to 120kw with bolt ons with b20 bottom end i tink.. search for zeforce.. he has b20 vtec.. which is made frm a b16a and a b20 CRV engine..

Zeforce B20 is made from b18c head not b16a