Power FC tuning with ITBs, share your knowledge

[STiR]

Hey guys,

I've been doing a bit of research re tuning ITBs and many tuners experienced with them believe that the best way to tune them is using TPS v RPM (throttle position v rpm).

I'm on holiday in sunny Gold Coast atm and don't have access to my tuner, does anyone know if it is possible to tune in this way with the power FC?

Any other advice or thoughts with regards to ECU tuning for a daily driver with ITBs is welcome. We're still in the process of improving drivability and fuel consumption :)

cheers
Shiraz

[barefootbonzai]

I have no idea if PFC has that capability, nor if it is even nessary.

My car was driven daily with ITB's, and drivability was just superb. It drove exactly like a normal car, just more power and response all through the rev range. My setup was controled with a hondata S300. As for fuel consumption, i generally got 350km out of a tank city driving and 400km highway.

[STiR]

Who tuned your set up? Problem is my tuner is the technical manager at STi headquarters in Melbourne and he just hasn't had the time required to get a really good tune with my car. So at the moment full throttle is phenomenal, but constant throttle, while sounding really cool, is horrible. In the meantime I'm working on fitting a TWM airbox to get some cool air into the system.

[STiR]

Looking at the features of the s300:

'TPS based table lookup for ITBs'

http://www.hondata.com/s300.html

That might have been part of the reason you were able to achieve excellent drivability?

[fatboyz39]

We use hondata s200 to control A-sport ITB's.

[dynosaur]

excuse me ,

how much we r expecting for a ITB setup ?

thanks :)

[markoJEK1]

ITB setup or just ITB's ? , ITBs will go for 1.5k and up depending on which manufacturer , and setup? You need some head work done at the minimum to actually recieve gains from putting ITBs on, other wise its useless. For eg : cams, valves, springs, retainers, etc etc for head, then an ECU that can run it S200 or up (assuming you talking about a B), then you'd look at ITB's.

Small misconception people have about putting ITB's in, is to achieve greater power, this might be true to a small extent, but ITB's main function is for throttle response. Keep that in mind, car will feel quicker because of the response of the motor, not because you gained ridiculous number of KW.

[Benson]

ITB setup or just ITB's ? , ITBs will go for 1.5k and up depending on which manufacturer , and setup? You need some head work done at the minimum to actually recieve gains from putting ITBs on, other wise its useless. For eg : cams, valves, springs, retainers, etc etc for head, then an ECU that can run it S200 or up (assuming you talking about a B), then you'd look at ITB's.

Small misconception people have about putting ITB's in, is to achieve greater power, this might be true to a small extent, but ITB's main function is for throttle response. Keep that in mind, car will feel quicker because of the response of the motor, not because you gained ridiculous number of KW.

i got to disagree with you.. ITb's on a stock motor is a good gain, espically in the mid-range area... peak power would be roughly the same

Remember its whats in the middle that matters

[markoJEK1]

yep, I agree with what you said also, peak power will be the same, is more so of what I was thinking about.

PS. to get most out of ITB's you should have a midly worked motor at the minimum, sure it will give you a gain even on stock motor, but nothing compared to a worked one. And once again one of the main functions of ITB's is to increase throttle response.

[markoJEK1]

Also heres a quick quote from HPI magazine, they did article on quads.

"The main justification for fitting ITB's is not for any signification power increase, but more for the amplified throttle response. In fact
more often than not low-end torque is sacrificed for top end thrills (so it's not ideal for automatic vehicles). Another gain to be
had from ITB's is they dont forage air from other cylinders and theoretically there's a limitless supply of the 02 stuff."

[Limbo]

yuo you need longer runners for low end torque, as you run open throttles, its mainly for responsiveness.

They can be run on pretty much any decent ECU, its just a pain to tune them that's all.

I had them on my 20v with the wolf 3d, seem to be fine, and it was a daily driver. It did make nice noises

[delsol9000rpms]

itb's on a stock motor will gain peak power... just wont be much...

[fatboyz39]

itb's on a stock motor will gain peak power... just wont be much...

care to explain?

[delsol9000rpms]

care to explain?

well people are saying itb's on a stock motor wont gain peak power... i disagree.... itb''s on a stock motor tuned correctly will gain peak power.. just wont be as much gain as if you had high compression and cams to suit...


mate whats with you questioning everything i say anyway?

[fatboyz39]

well people are saying itb's on a stock motor wont gain peak power... i disagree.... itb''s on a stock motor tuned correctly will gain peak power.. just wont be as much gain as if you had high compression and cams to suit...


mate whats with you questioning everything i say anyway?

But why do you disagree? Have you every tried quads on a standard motor? OR witness one?

Im questioning you cause you need to back up your statements rather then say this and that.

[delsol9000rpms]

ohk well it only makes sense to gain peak power if a lil pod filter and intake pipe will gain peak power then its common sense to think itb's will... proove me wrong though... you build engines show me itb's that dnt make peak power over the standard motor... im not saying you can expect 500kw lol im just saying there will be an improovement.

[fatboyz39]

ohk well it only makes sense to gain peak power if a lil pod filter and intake pipe will gain peak power then its common sense to think itb's will... proove me wrong though... you build engines show me itb's that dnt make peak power over the standard motor... im not saying you can expect 500kw lol im just saying there will be an improovement.


Who told you that? I got nothing to prove here. But you do since you said placing ITB's on a standard motor will GAIN peak power.

Sorry i don't build motors. I just test them. I don't know what works or not. So don't ask for combination.

[delsol9000rpms]

of course your gonna gain peak power with an ecu tuned with itb's.... just an ecu tuned on a stock motor gains peak power. so what happens when you add itb's?

[fatboyz39]

of course your gonna gain peak power with an ecu tuned with itb's.... just an ecu tuned on a stock motor gains peak power. so what happens when you add itb's?

1 + 5 = 2? ...

Go spend 2k and found out yourself.

[delsol9000rpms]

ye mate your very smart... its like arguing with a farkin slutt you just dnt seem to shutup.. i dnt need to proove anything to yu who do you think you are your nobody to me. pfft

[VTECMACHINE]

HA HA HA HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH ROFLCOPTER! wow.. such a crack up.

Curious to know what filter you run on ITB's, or if you really need them?? I want ITB's :D

[EG5]

itb's on a stock motor will gain peak power... just wont be much...

We gain alot more mid range on our b18cR stock motor , stock cams.

[delsol9000rpms]

yee all the gains are midrange mostly... but im saying that it will gain a little bit of peak power aswell.. fatboyz39 disagrees...

[fatboyz39]

HA HA HA HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH ROFLCOPTER! wow.. such a crack up.

Curious to know what filter you run on ITB's, or if you really need them?? I want ITB's :D

i have a set for sale :p. If its weekend car then filter not really needed. But better be safe then sorry i guess:thumbsup:

[icecrm]

quick question

i have ep3r with air filter, and soon to have cat back exhaust, what will i need to eventually run itb's??
also how loud is it or everyday driving??

[Limbo]

i made more power out of ITB, but then again it was a stock ECU stepping up to ITB + ECU, so can't be sure that i wouldn't have gotten them just tuning the ECU on it own

[markoJEK1]

Yeah but you are talking about a factory car that has come with ITB's and the requirements, ECU and is tuned to run them, its a different story when you are putting ITB's on a motor that hasnt come out of the factory with them, if you get what I mean. Im trying to say for someone that wants to put ITB's in, do some motor work before you do to get the best result with ITB's, not just put them on a stock motor. Because the motors that did come out with them were specifically made to suit that setup.

[TODA AU]

Hey guys,

I've been doing a bit of research re tuning ITBs and many tuners experienced with them believe that the best way to tune them is using TPS v RPM (throttle position v rpm).

I'm on holiday in sunny Gold Coast atm and don't have access to my tuner, does anyone know if it is possible to tune in this way with the power FC?

Any other advice or thoughts with regards to ECU tuning for a daily driver with ITBs is welcome. We're still in the process of improving drivability and fuel consumption :)

cheers
Shiraz

It can be done but to be honest it is bothersome to tune as FC is MAP sensor tuning.
Your advantage here is the vacuum block you already have with IACV attached. (OER throttles from memory)
With a few changes & lap top software, a reliable responsive tune can be had that will deliver both good driveablity & reasonable econnomy.
It won't be a cheap tune as it takes a while to get right.

That said, if it were my car,
I'd ditch the FC & use an S300 (Hondata)

[STiR]

Thanks for your input TODA AU. So anyone want to buy a power FC, and when are you heading down to melbourne to tune my car?