#### The Ideal Fwd F/i Street / Drag Car ####

[Sexc86]

Gday guys,

just thought id want to get some opinions on what Aspects/features in the catagories below would a ideal street driven (possibly daily) 11sec FWD F/I Drag car would be made up of. Nothing unnecessary or overkill, needs to appear as "low key" (unmodified) as possible for the street. Semi-comfortable and reliable. Would not need to run 11s on pump fuel or street tyres. ie a street car with race fuel/slicks added for the track only.



Things like

* Body design/styling
* Engine
* Driveline
* Power delivery
* Suspension
* Brakes
* Fuel system
* Ignition
* Cooling
* Weight reduction
* ECU features
* Electronic accessories



Thanks in advance

Regards Lyle

[[ricer]]

EG hatch
i just love seeing EG hatches going fast

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

....Oh god im about to sound Biast

3G civic....

Though i love the EG's and EK's

[Sexc86]

thanks for the feedback guys. but im more interested in specific aspects that makeup a successfull drag car... not really platforms for a drag car

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

thanks for the feedback guys. but im more interested in specific aspects that makeup a successfull drag car... not really platforms for a drag car

*Palm Face*

I have a word doc somewhere with everything i want...Ill try find it tomorrow and try to contribute :cool:

[Sexc86]

no info anyone?

[ALLMTR]

1992 - 1994 Mitsubishi Nimbus
EVo head/crank
Gt35r
EVo box converted to FWD
Remove 6 of the 7 seats
Run 11's pissing yourself laughing all the way down the track

[Sexc86]

ahahaha man seriously...

[Nepolian]

Toyota Starlet with a B18 or K20. Plenty of aftermarket chassis parts and HONDA POWER!

[Sexc86]

Thanks for the input so far. But im really chaseing what specifications in specific areas that will need attention (areas shown in first post)... and what can be left oem.

[Nepolian]

Im personally new in the realm of FWD performance as I have always had RWD turbos.

A good mate once had a EP71 Starlet doing 12 second passes and I learnt a few things from him here and there, RWD or FWD concept is still the same....Get to the end quicker :)

As for what your asking,

* Body design/styling - You've asked for FWD, so for me its a Starlet 80 series - being sub 900kg (lighter than EGG) and you can get 4 door for practicability, tho as small as it is!
* Engine - Shoe horn a B18 or K20 (should pass engineering easily as its NA).
* Driveline - Good clutch and Slicks.
* Power delivery - Driver dependant.
* Suspension - Low softish front and high hardish rear (Adjustable coilovers will cover that for track and road)
* Brakes - No real big deal, small up grade as the car does not weigh that much.
* Fuel system - After market pump - nothing special for a street 11 sec car.
* Ignition - Any after market tunable ECU
* Cooling - Stock should be fine.
* Weight reduction - Usual sound deadener removal (if you wish) and interior bits for races.
* ECU features - Launch control and shift light.
* Electronic accessories - As above

If you wanna stay true to honda, there really isnt much choice but an Civic up to EG or it'll be heavy and $$$

My 2c

[RICER23Q]

body - no sex spec

[Killa From Manila]

a cordia.

[egSi]

a cordia.

or a bombed old ET pular :thumbsup:

[Sexc86]

body - no sex spec


ahhaha !! :P

[delsol9000rpms]

honda city.. stripped... k20a2... slicks...that should be it 11's no problems loll

[CRXer]

i dont get this thread:confused:

for one,why is it in the track/drag section

& two,are u asking about a car that will do 11 sec between traffic lights as well as at the strip?

if so,good luck with the "semi-comfortable","reliable","daily driver" aspects of your question.Would prob be cheaper to buy an 11sec porsche or ferrari & be safer as well.

[Sexc86]

Its in the Drag section... because its about features of a car mostly setup for drag.

And no, not a 11sec street car. A car that can be legally street registerable and un-defectable.. but also taken to the 1/4... throw on a set of slicks and pull a 11sec.

im not after a specific car in general that will do the job. More the features of one that will make it happen.

Example... this is what i have Thus Far.


Body design/styling
Engine - 250wkw+
Driveline - LSD + Stronger drive shafts (drive shafts shop?)
Power delivery - Traction Bars, Engine Damper, Drag radials, Slicks, firm engine mounts (inserts or completely new)
Suspension - Front Camber kit, urethane bushing kit, coilovers (height and damper), Front Lcas
Brakes - Disc brakes all around + slotted front rotors
Fuel system - surge tank + twin walboro or external pump
Ignition - stronger coil.. possibly external
Cooling - Twin core radiator+ FMIC to do the job.. but not oversized
Weight reduction - sub 1000kg
ECU features - launch controll, anti-lag, flat shift
Electronic accessories - Electronic boost controller (step boost), Boost gauge, oil temp/pressure + warning lights

isnt something semi-comfortable, reliable to daily driven use really that much to ask?

[RICER23Q]

Engine - 250wkw+

Weight reduction - sub 1000kg


You will be looking at 10s with the right setup in this case.

[Sexc86]

On paper its possible... but id rather setup the car more to handell street conditions.. and sacrifice super fast times on the 1/4

[CRXer]

Its in the Drag section... because its about features of a car mostly setup for drag.

And no, not a 11sec street car. A car that can be legally street registerable and un-defectable.. but also taken to the 1/4... throw on a set of slicks and pull a 11sec.

im not after a specific car in general that will do the job. More the features of one that will make it happen.

isnt something semi-comfortable, reliable to daily driven use really that much to ask?

Ok,now your making more sense,u should update your first post.

Its highly achievable if ur willing to set it up everytime just to run the 11's on the strip.

Still gonna cost ya a bit,if u want reliable daily driver

[xtercii]

Would prob be cheaper to buy an 11sec porsche or ferrari & be safer as well.

which porsche or ferrari can you get for under $300k that will run the 11s?

[CRXer]

which porsche or ferrari can you get for under $300k that will run the 11s?

yes,slight exageration,but i was just trying to reinforce my point,no need to get too detailed,mmmmkay......

[xtercii]

that's a massive exaggeration but, anything under 200k will probably only get you a 13sec car, let alone 11s....

[Sexc86]

cmon guys getting offtopic... Crxer was just makeing a point... that building a 11sec street car.. that is still reliable, legal and has creature comforts you may aswell go buy a factory sports car that will get you it... as it would cost close to similar..


Anyway back on topic. The list i have so far (post 18) anything i should add or subtract? Simple is best, dont want want anything unfunctional

[RICER23Q]

that's a massive exaggeration but, anything under 200k will probably only get you a 13sec car, let alone 11s....

r35 gtr?

[xtercii]

he talking about porsche or ferrari...read back the posts....

[CRXer]

that's a massive exaggeration but, anything under 200k will probably only get you a 13sec car, let alone 11s....

get over it dude & get back on topic:thumbsup:

[DR HONDA]

I agree with ben. Relating to honda drag cars most cars running 11s or low 12s are not really street registerable cars. The cars with rego labels at compact attact including my own if had to be inspected for rego would leave my shop with a FAILED DANGEROUSLY for a PINK SLIP/E SAFETY inspection.

[CRXer]

lil pink, lipstick ,doggy dicks ftmfw,woohoo!!!!

........ok........i'll shutup now.

Its quite possible,anything is possible,but like i keep saying,it'll cost u an absolute fortune to achieve.

[Sexc86]

I believe makeing the power with forced induction is quite easy... keeping the weight sub 1000kg is also easy. Its all about power delivery. What areas / items would the fortune have to be spent on?

Lyle

[CRXer]

yes its quite easy to make the power as witnessed by all the n00bs i seem to be running into lately around the northern beaches of sydney in their big arsed booster fitted VL's.Its a damn scream when i catch em off boost,leave em for dead,but watch the things monstering up in my rear view mirrors & shooting past me at about 300km/h.Its a pity for their sake that weve already gone well past 400m & they give me some excuse for it at the next set of lights.Its even funnier when u see the same n00b catching the bus the next week cos his car is sitting outside his house with repair costs way beyond his meager budget after he spent all his cash on bolting that monster turbine to his stock motor.

putting the power to the ground effectively,cmon, u know thats not exactly an easy exercise in a 14 sec FWD car,wait till u get down to the 12's,let alone 11's it becomes the realm of the experienced,expert even,setups & drivers.If u dont want to work for that experience yourself,then u will pay thru the arse to buy that knowledge off someone who has.

BTW,my supposedly little CRX is tipping the scales at 1007kg,there goes a few more compromises in keeping it easily under 1000kg.

to do this all in a daily driver,ADR approved,reliable,semi comfortable FWD honda is where u'll blow most of the cash.Just ask anyone who has put their 11 sec street honda up for ADR approval how much they really spent on firstly getting it to a passable state then going thru the whole process.Reliable............prepare your wallet for ultimate doom as u fork out for highly engineered parts.Semi comfortable........say goodbye to all your power options,A/C,power steer,audio,even heating in a lot of cases,sound deadening,carpet,the ability to change a flat tyre,but u reckon your quite happy to totally rebuild your car back to a 13sec street dog every time u leave the strip,then so be it.

How happy do u think your left leg is gonna be on a daily basis with your new 11 sec clutch setup?

After totally rebuilding the interior of your "semi comfortable" car,dont forget to jack it up & change the wheels & swap some street springs & dampers back into it.

The 11 sec supercars dont cost what they do for no reason,they achieve most of what your asking for,in a more ideal body/engine/driveline layout,with super lightweight highly engineered parts,but even then there are certain compromises to be had.

I think its time to give up on the dream & join the rest of the crowd,constantly rebuilding the engine of your rather uncomfortable daily driver & just pay/rectify the defect notices when they pop up,& start saving up for that supercar uve always wanted.

[RICER23Q]

i've got a good idea... how about not using a fwd platform?

[Aza]

CC Lancer Coupe
Strip interior from front seats back
Evo engine
Work the Evo engine (pretty easy to get high power out of them if u want to spend the money)
Keep the car looking stock, coil overs, put some light weight rims on it.
the stock styling of them will make it fairly easy to keep the car over 100mm thus keeping it legal.

and if u were really wanting speed convert it to awd

power to weight ratio would be an absolute killer!

[grumpy rooster]

Any car making enough power to run those times will NEVER pass an emissions test for a start, therefore being illegal.

It is not possible to have an 11sec legal FWD car. If you were to change your question and just find out about a combination to suit but it didn't have to be legal then that is a totally different story. :)

[Sexc86]

I am not talking 11s in street trim and condition..

a Street car that you could take to the drags, Throw on a set of slicks... Maybe have a tune for race fuel (high boost) ... possible a shot of nitrous... but not getting to the point of drastic weight reduction

[fatboyz39]

I am not talking 11s in street trim and condition..

a Street car that you could take to the drags, Throw on a set of slicks... Maybe have a tune for race fuel (high boost) ... possible a shot of nitrous

can be done in n/a form.

[chargeR]

Refer to this thread for my ideal FWD street/drag car: LINK (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2250872&page=1). Looks relatively close to street legal in Australia too. Not cheap to build I imagine.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3195/2334110447_9978fc7dee_o.jpg

[Sexc86]

ALthought i find that car very impressive. I think some people are missinterpretating the aim of this thred.

Im not asking "what cars will run 11s" ... more like... "Cars that run 11s, what enables them to do so"

If that makes sence?

[grumpy rooster]

The point is, there are simple things that make a car fast over the 1/4 and they are power and weight. But to have a car that is legal and those things is a compromise on legality.

If you just want a car that you can drive every day, then go to the drags and change wheels, strip the interior, and change the suspension settings then that is achievable NA as has been said. In turbo form it is easier. But again, it will be a compromise. You need to reduce weight and try and have a progressive power delivery. A setup that has nothing under 5000rpm and then makes full boost of 20psi at 6,000rpm is going to end up in wheelspin city unless you are able to get that power to the ground with a big set of slicks and properly set up suspension. Part of that suspension setup is a set of strong and very taught engine mounts. Solid is best but for a street car its not possible.

More later.

[Sexc86]

Thanks mate exact sort of info i am looking for :D

[EGB18CT]

BLKCRX was ADR/EPA approved running 11's all street legal, interior although no air con but just get a air con turbo kit.. 11's are easy, its the 10's where its harder

[CRXer]

BLKCRX was ADR/EPA approved running 11's all street legal, interior although no air con but just get a air con turbo kit.. 11's are easy, its the 10's where its harder

Ask him how much R&D went in to that & how much was truly spent on it.

BTW have u got any pics of your 11sec FWD honda,I'd like to see them?

[RICER23Q]

Refer to this thread for my ideal FWD street/drag car: LINK (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2250872&page=1). Looks relatively close to street legal in Australia too. Not cheap to build I imagine.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3195/2334110447_9978fc7dee_o.jpg

bar the rollcage, no headlight and non-existant bonnet?

[delsol9000rpms]

jdmyard civic.. enough said lol that thing is awesomeeeeee

i think this thread is just a big misunderstanding.... yous are debating two completely diffrent things.. both are right... i think its best to agree to disgaree

[chargeR]

bar the rollcage, no headlight and non-existant bonnet?

I said relatively :p. Also a correctly designed roll cage is perfectly legal in some states. I think that swapping out a headlight and a velocity stack at the track is an acceptable compromise for a bit of speed.

[delsol9000rpms]

Refer to this thread for my ideal FWD street/drag car: LINK (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2250872&page=1). Looks relatively close to street legal in Australia too. Not cheap to build I imagine.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3195/2334110447_9978fc7dee_o.jpg

this is the gen 2 crx version of hassy MRK24R's car lol

[Sexc86]

any benefits on power delivery or strait line driving with things like strut braces / sway bars. I know the obvious reaons why not. Being a more handelling mod. But would there be and stressing/flexing between the strut towers side/side that a strut brace would help minimise?

or would this really be excess weight?

[EG5]

any benefits on power delivery or strait line driving with things like strut braces / sway bars. I know the obvious reaons why not. Being a more handelling mod. But would there be and stressing/flexing between the strut towers side/side that a strut brace would help minimise?

or would this really be excess weight?

I took out all my strut bars , roll cage for drag racing also rear sway bar
I got my front end seam welded.


* My 11 sec Civic is Daily Driven , grocery shopping etc , good on fuel too , i got 450km's out of a full tank out of stock motor k24a3 from Accord Euro *
Few guys out there like DRHonda , MRK24R is pretty close on hitting 11s too , and they drive their car daily too *

[todaek9]

I wanna hit the 400km/tank mark as well... :(

[connorling]

i think Mr beam Mini with b20/b16 head would kill. 600 to 700 kg with lots of power

[Limbo]

i get pretty decnt economy out of mine, about 8-9ltr per 100km

[mr_vtec]

yepp my car completely built motor gets 400-450 out of a tank just depends on driving style..

it all comes down to what you think is a street car..

[Snoop_gee]

Refer to this thread for my ideal FWD street/drag car: LINK (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2250872&page=1). Looks relatively close to street legal in Australia too. Not cheap to build I imagine.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3195/2334110447_9978fc7dee_o.jpg
im liking that alot :eek: