power FC

[blk_shadow]

does anyone use Apexi power fc on their integra Vtirs or B18c2?

how much power and fuel efficiency do you guys get?

cheers

[trism]

the power and fuel efficiency depends not on the type of ecu, but the tune itself

you could have the same engine, same ecu, two different tunes, and the power and fuel efficiency could be totally different

[squish85]

might be abit of overkill for a stock B18C2...

[Limbo]

nah, an ecu will always make some power as factory always are conservative on mass produced cars, but its usually more useful to get more mods and then tune to get your money's worth.

You should be able to run the standard ITR tune on your dc2, but it won't be that precise.

[blk_shadow]

it actually makes the car more aggressive. timing is more spot on.

[beeza]

A greddy emanage cant do that because it cant adjust the timing right?

[blk_shadow]

not sure. but with this one, as i'm driving on road my mate will adjust and road tune it with the commander. so everything is real time on road

[squish85]

not sure. but with this one, as i'm driving on road my mate will adjust and road tune it with the commander. so everything is real time on road

Dude that sounds mega dangerous..

[nigs]

Dude that sounds mega dangerous..

HAHA.
Tuning at warp speed buddy.

[blk_shadow]

nah, no mega dangerous, we didn't go until 5th gear at crazy speed LOL.

for 5 speed car, only needed until 3rd gear.

[Limbo]

Greddy emanage is only a piggyback, it only adjusts the standard ECU points and needs tuning to make any improvements, it also has limited tuning points.

The PFC is a plug & play, with a base map, so you can do more down the track. Also its a full ECU with more tunable points

[beeza]

Thanks for that Limbo!

[squish85]

Greddy emanage is only a piggyback, it only adjusts the standard ECU points and needs tuning to make any improvements, it also has limited tuning points.

The PFC is a plug & play, with a base map, so you can do more down the track. Also its a full ECU with more tunable points

With that said.. does a piggy back provide any power gains at all ? (even with modifications) Or is a fully standalone ECU like Power FC the only choice for power gains on the dyno (not imaginary butt dyno gains).. Sorry to hijack.. :o

[tran06]

i think piggy backs such as VAFC provide some power gains as you can remap the air and fuel ratios

a cheaper alternative to buying a standalone ECU

[chockz]

I have an Apexi Neo in the car ...pro tuned on a dyno...
not much or insignificant power gains...just maybe more fuel eco.

was wondering if PFC or hondata can do any MAJOR improvements than a an interceptor given a mild moded (w/o internals) car.

is this consider hijacking?

[Chr1s]

I personally wouldn't bother with those Apexi NEO's, SAFC and all the other rice boxes. You can do some resistor work (if you know your electronics) and imitate exactly what the SAFC does and pay 1/50th the price.

You won't get any real gains from leaning out the AFR. You need to work on the timing, the most you can do is advance the distributor although that's advancing the whole map x degree's, which can be dangerous.

Having said that, if you're tuning for economy, you can do it using the SAFC, etc.

Hondata can give improvements, they can tune fuel and ignition maps seperate rather than rely on advancing the base timing to compensate for lack of such control.

Hope that helps.

[chockz]

totally agree...and with regards to the resistor work, ahahah to that...not that it is wrong..the ECU uses electrical signals to vary the AFR. But the question is, Chr1s, how much difference are we looking at here with a mild moded car. my car currently pulls 101 kw atw with a neo, but are we looking at ~110 with PFC or hondata?

I guess when it comes to tuning ...u want to be able to know when should you start doing more hardcore tuning...Stage >2 ? Stage 1.5? or when you get ur first CAI?

chock

[itr_112]

I gained 7kw atw after a tune. I have I/H/E and TB

[chockz]

as compared to stock or piggyback or interceptors?

[Limbo]

piggy back systems generally have less tuning points. All will have benefits over standard ECUs. But again depends on what their features are and how much you wanna pay and what you are looking at doing

VAFC, NEO & Greddy ones have limited tuning points and piggyback of your standard ECU's signals.

Hondata, Chrome... and the such are honda ECU chips that allow you to reprogram your factory ECU. They make your factory ECU more like a fully tunable ECU.

PFC, Motec, WolF, EMS and the like are also Full ecus. Some need full programing to work while other like the PFC have base maps in them of the factory setting for specific cars, so only need minor mods done.

To get any benefit you need some tuning. The more tunable areas, means the more accurate the fueling and timing can be adjusted. Again skill of the tuner comes into play.

[Limbo]

P.S i have a PFC and i liked it for the fact that it had a base map so i could drive it around and it was Plug & Play (no wiring needed). Most full ECU replacements need wiring & sometimes extra sensors.

Hondata, pro ECU & Chrome need chipping (i'm not that technical so i never bothered, and was too scared to soldier it myself)

Most piggybacks also need wiring, but some have plug & play looms i.e greddy.

[beeza]

My car is a 96ek1 D16Y4 Auto,there is no stand alone ECU you can use,so I have to use greddy e-manage.

[JasonGilholme]

LIMBO: How do you find the tune on your car? Did the PFC give your tuner a sufficient amount of tuning points to get a nice level of driveability from the car?

Also, how was the base tune that it comes with? Sufficient enough to obtain a good cold idle and get you to the tuners with injectors already installed??

Jase

[Limbo]

nah it doesn't have something for a turbo. Toda-AU was nice enough to put a turbo b16 map from another setup so i could drive the car over. All i did was plug the ECU in and drive it over slowly under boost to get tuned properly.
I have heard of people driving without injectors and staying under boost and just getting it to the tuner. Other method is to get it towed.

Beeza - its OBD2a so you get the Type R PFC and its plug & play. Then just needs a tune. I guess the Vtec engagement just gets turned off.

Or if its OBd1 there is a version for that also or a conversion harness is possible.

That way you plug in and no need to pay for install

[beeza]

It's ODB2,not sure if a or b,I didn't want to spend much,just to get it tuned because it's running way too rich,always has been.The engine has no power too so a b18 is my dream with a stand alone ECU.

[Chr1s]

How can you drive without injectors lol?

The PFC should have enough of a tuning resolution to give you a decent tune. You can do the base map yourself if you have a broad understanding of tuning, all you do is remove timing and richen it up for boost. If you have a wideband, it'll make a quick road tune alot easier and safer. However I wouldn't recomend it if you don't know how everything works.

As Limbo said, most hondata, chrome, etc are just chips that enable the tuner to change some global settings such as rpm limit, kph limit, etc; timing maps (low and high), fuel maps (low, high and det.), injector pulsewidth, etc etc. In otherwords, a standalone ECU.

Motec and others make a MINT off this kinda work, chrome is similiar, without the goodies.

I had a standard ECU reverse engineered to implement launch control, solenoid activation at certain TP/RPM, 32x32 maps (more resolution for tuning) and alot more.

[Elwood]

Street tuning FTMFW!

[fatboyz39]

does anyone use Apexi power fc on their integra Vtirs or B18c2?

how much power and fuel efficiency do you guys get?

cheers


Waste, just get your ECU chipped.

[Chr1s]

^ I agree

[Limbo]

you run standard injectors with a your standard ECU. Car will run funny and you should drive under 2.5k rpm, if the engine sees any boost it will crap itself and stall.

Other method is to get it towed.

The reason for PFC its plug & play (comes in obd2a & 2b or get a conversion harness if you got something else) and you can put your car back to stock without much trouble.




How can you drive without injectors lol?

The PFC should have enough of a tuning resolution to give you a decent tune. You can do the base map yourself if you have a broad understanding of tuning, all you do is remove timing and richen it up for boost. If you have a wideband, it'll make a quick road tune alot easier and safer. However I wouldn't recomend it if you don't know how everything works.

As Limbo said, most hondata, chrome, etc are just chips that enable the tuner to change some global settings such as rpm limit, kph limit, etc; timing maps (low and high), fuel maps (low, high and det.), injector pulsewidth, etc etc. In otherwords, a standalone ECU.

Motec and others make a MINT off this kinda work, chrome is similiar, without the goodies.

I had a standard ECU reverse engineered to implement launch control, solenoid activation at certain TP/RPM, 32x32 maps (more resolution for tuning) and alot more.

[chingaling]

sorry to Hi jack this.. got a B16B Stock Internal but planning to Power FC it. will that be much difference if just stock Power FC no tune ? or is it necessary to get it tuned ?

[DakDak]

Only small if it is tuned. Very small. Itd be more worthwhile to get I/h/e a a minimum before the power fc. get the parts you want inside first then ecu.

[IV73CI]

I ran my b16a using PFC and noticed power during vtec, only because i had IHE and FPR. Problem was i ran 2% richer. :) not tuned just plug n play. It got 98fwkw.

Other than that she went well.

Are u using the oem JDM CTR PCT ecu now?

[B-serious]

What advantages would say a hondata s300 have over a Apexi Power fc ? Or vica versa ?

[Limbo]

s300 has more resolution, controls boost better.

[B-serious]

So for a N/A Engine with usual I/h/e they would be similar ?
(for arguments sake lets say same tuner, expireince with both ecu's, same day ect)

[TODA AU]

So for a N/A Engine with usual I/h/e they would be similar ?
(for arguments sake lets say same tuner, expireince with both ecu's, same day ect)

9 time out of 10, the S300 delivers a better result. (Better cold start, idle, sharper, crisper & 2~3 hp more everywhere)
Though on one occasion I had an FC outpower an S200 on a DC2R
(But I suspect there was an issue with that ECU)

S300 has quite a few extra features not present in the Apexi. (So for track use is way better)
That said, the Apexi is still a good thing & well worth it for a roadie, particularly when purchase 2nd hand.
But must be tuned via laptop for better than 1/2 decent results