Dyno Tuned and QU's [Archive]

Adrian Euro

28-07-2008, 11:34 AM

angelo.vs

28-07-2008, 12:09 PM

Hi regarding your 'tuning in speed question', I don't think it matters since it's based on your engine revs.

aaronng

28-07-2008, 12:19 PM

Hi everyone i just got my car dynoed on the weekend and it clocked up 127KW at the wheels in 4th gear. I Have the below mods and would like some further advice from the techs on this site.

* Back Quater twin exhaust pipes each side
* Hi Flow Cat
* Customer CAI
* 18inch Wheels
* VAFC 2
* Top Speed headers with 6inch Flex Pipe
* Exhedy Heavy Duty Clutch

Questions:
1. Is the Vtec cut over point when the car changes from Low cam to High cam?
2. The tuner installed this from low to high at 5700 RPM and High to Low at 5200. If i change this will this stuff up my car? Is this the the Vtec Cut over point?
3. Whats the difference with Dyno in different gears?
4. I noticed that the tuner was going up to speeds of 140km + i think. Will it make a difference if i ask him to tune my car between 0km/h and say 100km/h. As i doubt i will hit speeds of 140km/h as this would encounter a straight DQ of my license on NSW road and may even my car impounded.

Any help would be great. Thanks.
That's a good result! What brand of dyno was this on? Do you have the printout? To answer your questions:
1. Yes.
2. Your tuner should have set it based on your dyno tune. So there isn't much reason to change it. But if you post your chart up, we can see if there is a dip in torque at 5700rpm. If there is, then there should be a little bit of fine tuning or changing of the vtec point that your tuner could do.
3. You get a slightly different reading with each gear. For the Euro, 4th gear is what we use for manuals.
4. The tune is based on engine RPM and throttle position. So you don't need to tune it based on speed.

Adrian Euro

28-07-2008, 12:30 PM

That's a good result! What brand of dyno was this on? Do you have the printout? To answer your questions:
1. Yes.
2. Your tuner should have set it based on your dyno tune. So there isn't much reason to change it. But if you post your chart up, we can see if there is a dip in torque at 5700rpm. If there is, then there should be a little bit of fine tuning or changing of the vtec point that your tuner could do.
3. You get a slightly different reading with each gear. For the Euro, 4th gear is what we use for manuals.
4. The tune is based on engine RPM and throttle position. So you don't need to tune it based on speed.

It was a dyno dynamics. I have the dyno in my car. When i get it i will scan it and post it. Yeah i like playing with the cut overpoints and i hope i wasn't going blow the engine or anything by doing this.

aaronng

28-07-2008, 12:36 PM

It was a dyno dynamics. I have the dyno in my car. When i get it i will scan it and post it. Yeah i like playing with the cut overpoints and i hope i wasn't going blow the engine or anything by doing this.
Nice, I know my numbers are not comparable, but to give you an idea, I got 110kW on a dyno dynamics in autumn (19-22 ºC), with just an intake. So IF the condition of our engines were similar, 17kW gain is pretty good for the parts you have.

I don't think you will blow the engine, but you will lose power (if your tuner had already set it up correctly). Who was your tuner btw, if you don't mind me asking.

Adrian Euro

28-07-2008, 01:34 PM

Nice, I know my numbers are not comparable, but to give you an idea, I got 110kW on a dyno dynamics in autumn (19-22 ºC), with just an intake. So IF the condition of our engines were similar, 17kW gain is pretty good for the parts you have.

I don't think you will blow the engine, but you will lose power (if your tuner had already set it up correctly). Who was your tuner btw, if you don't mind me asking.

hey aaron. Got my car tuned by IS MOTOR RACING. I feel that the vtec boost coming in earlier gives me that little bit extra push quicker thats why i would like to change it.

aaronng

28-07-2008, 01:51 PM

hey aaron. Got my car tuned by IS MOTOR RACING. I feel that the vtec boost coming in earlier gives me that little bit extra push quicker thats why i would like to change it.

VTEC is not boost. Setting it earlier does not give you power earlier. it reduces power instead. :)

viper8548

28-07-2008, 01:59 PM

VTEC is not boost. Setting it earlier does not give you power earlier. it reduces power instead. :)

Please explain :o

aaronng

28-07-2008, 02:06 PM

Please explain :o

The engine's valve timing is determined by the cams. Cams have a limited optimum rev range. Hence you get regular passenger cars which work great from 1000 to 4000rpm, but lose torque above 4000rpm to redline. Then you have high revving race engines with cams that are optimum from 5000rpm upwards. Most of these cars even need to set the idle really high, around 2000rpm.

Honda engines with VTEC gives the engine 2 cam profiles. So the first one operates from idle to 6000rpm on the Euro and the 2nd cam from 6000rpm upwards to redline. The switchover point between the 2 profiles is based on your ECU and engine tune. If your tuner has done it properly and found that 5700rpm was the best point, then you shouldn't change it as going higher or lower will just expose a torque hole.

akina

28-07-2008, 03:12 PM

i wouldnt be too worried if indy tuned it... lol
he knows he stuff :thumbsup:
and great results!

btw aaron, auto gets dynoed in 3rd gear right? since its ratio is closer to 1 than in 4th gear.

Adrian Euro

28-07-2008, 03:43 PM

i wouldnt be too worried if indy tuned it... lol
he knows he stuff :thumbsup:
and great results!

btw aaron, auto gets dynoed in 3rd gear right? since its ratio is closer to 1 than in 4th gear.

Yea i agree he spent alot of time on it and did numerous runs i think it was close to 6 or maybe even more. Was just wondering to myself exactly how often i would really push it out to 5700rpm which indy said was the most effective changeove rpoint.

akina

28-07-2008, 03:51 PM

how often?? ill say everytime u sit at the lights waiting for it to go green and hearing it sing :p

also, wasnt the VAFC 2 not recommended as the ecu relearns itself over time?

Adrian Euro

28-07-2008, 04:15 PM

how often?? ill say everytime u sit at the lights waiting for it to go green and hearing it sing :p

also, wasnt the VAFC 2 not recommended as the ecu relearns itself over time?

Yeah i was told that but indy said the 2006 onwards had that problem and the neo had that problem but indy said that the vafc2 may relearn itself a little bit but it will be unoticable. One of the other members also told me that theirs didn't re learna nd they were in an 04 euro.

akina

28-07-2008, 05:00 PM

ic, can i ask u how much was it to get it dyno tuned at ISMR?
and how much did u get the vafc 2 for?
can PM if u want.

aaronng

28-07-2008, 05:11 PM

Yeah i was told that but indy said the 2006 onwards had that problem and the neo had that problem but indy said that the vafc2 may relearn itself a little bit but it will be unoticable. One of the other members also told me that theirs didn't re learna nd they were in an 04 euro.

04-07 has the same type of ECU. If it happens on the 06, it will happen on the 04.

The NEO doesn't work with the Euro because it is an ivtec engine.

Adrian Euro

28-07-2008, 05:43 PM

04-07 has the same type of ECU. If it happens on the 06, it will happen on the 04.

The NEO doesn't work with the Euro because it is an ivtec engine.

so is the 03 different to all of these?????

aaronng

28-07-2008, 07:07 PM

so is the 03 different to all of these?????
Sorry, 03 is the same as 04-07.

Adrian Euro

29-07-2008, 08:17 AM

Hi i have the dyno but i am unsure of how to post it? Could someone tell me how to post the dyno result? Thanks. Also what are the signs of the ECU relearning itself?

tron07

29-07-2008, 08:55 AM

Do another dyno after 1 month and compare to the old one... probably see a different graph

aaronng

29-07-2008, 09:22 AM

Hi i have the dyno but i am unsure of how to post it? Could someone tell me how to post the dyno result? Thanks. Also what are the signs of the ECU relearning itself?

Just attach the image using the "manage attachments" button below when you reply.

EuroAccord13 has experience with the VAFC and how quick the ECU relearns the modified settings. Hopefully he replies here.

Adrian Euro

29-07-2008, 09:43 AM

Just attach the image using the "manage attachments" button below when you reply.

EuroAccord13 has experience with the VAFC and how quick the ECU relearns the modified settings. Hopefully he replies here.

Its saying the file is too big.

aaronng

29-07-2008, 09:47 AM

Its saying the file is too big.

Resize it to 1000 pixels wide, then save as jpg with 70 compression. Then try again.

Adrian Euro

29-07-2008, 10:20 AM

Resize it to 1000 pixels wide, then save as jpg with 70 compression. Then try again.

Sorry i cant post it. It wont let me post it. Its saying its still too big. If anyone would like to see it i will email it to them. PM me.

enkay

29-07-2008, 10:23 AM

is it a jpg already? just go to www.imageshack.us then upload your pics there and at the same time check the box resize.. and then it will give u a link and u can then post it here by doin (link to pic goes here)

EuroAccord13

29-07-2008, 01:11 PM

127Kws is a good figure based on the modifications you have. I had to do more to get there, maybe my car was a weekend special.

Anyway, VAFCii is just an interceptor which allows you to adjust your VTEC cam opening as well as your A/F ratio. Having tested this as well as other interceptors, the Euro's ECU has the capability to relearn and overwrite the tune over time. I can happen in as little as a day or over 2-3 months (of both which I have experienced during the testing). The VAFCii is not good enough in constantly intercepting the signals to stop the ECU from relearning. In saying that, not ALL interceptors or piggyback are like that, there are good ones such as E and V Manage from Greddy which are capable of holding off the ECU from learning if not at a slower rate.

To the topic on adjusting the VTEC cam opening, each car is different and reacts differently to whatever modifications are put in place, even 2 same cars from the same production batch with the same modifications will react differently to tuning. Everytime I dyno tune the car with different or added modifications, my tuner finds that the VTEC engagement points are different each time, once we even found out that the stock engagement point was the most optimum for power and linear torque delivery.

As for your case, if your tuner is a competent one, whichever point he set the car for VTEC, you should trust his work.

Suntzu

29-07-2008, 10:47 PM

Hows that exedy clutch treating you?

tony1234

30-07-2008, 08:30 AM

How much did this cost all up inc.fitting tuning etc.drive in drive out?

Adrian Euro

30-07-2008, 08:35 AM

Hows that exedy clutch treating you?

The exedy clutch i felt was quite tough and rough. Arrong advised me to move the bite point which i did and it runs a bit smoother now. I am not sure if it helps on performace but i got it so my clutch wouldn't die after 60000km again. Initially not impressed with the heavy duty clutch but as i got use to it i guess its ok.

Adrian Euro

30-07-2008, 08:38 AM

How much did this cost all up inc.fitting tuning etc.drive in drive out?

I got pretty rorted on the VAFC2 as auto barn got it on a special order for me for $550. I believe its cheaper at alot of other places. And then i paid IS motor racing for the install and tune. Indy is good he takes alot of time and does quite a few runs untill he is happy with the tune. The tune cost me around $220 but he told me it could cost up to 260 - $300 depending if i needed to move the o2 sensor after chris from best mufflers installed my hi flow cat. Anyone looking at doing some exhaust work chris from best mufflers at carlton is very reasonably priced and his work is extremly clean and neat.

tony1234

30-07-2008, 08:59 AM

I got pretty rorted on the VAFC2 as auto barn got it on a special order for me for $550. I believe its cheaper at alot of other places. And then i paid IS motor racing for the install and tune. Indy is good he takes alot of time and does quite a few runs untill he is happy with the tune. The tune cost me around $220 but he told me it could cost up to 260 - $300 depending if i needed to move the o2 sensor after chris from best mufflers installed my hi flow cat. Anyone looking at doing some exhaust work chris from best mufflers at carlton is very reasonably priced and his work is extremly clean and neat.
Thanks for replying.What brand of cat and how much did it cost?notice any gains?what year is your Euro?auto or manual?Thanks again.:)

Adrian Euro

30-07-2008, 10:32 AM

Thanks for replying.What brand of cat and how much did it cost?notice any gains?what year is your Euro?auto or manual?Thanks again.:)

Hey tony. I got best mufflers to put on an xforce cat and a bigger flex pipe and flange out the pipe into the original as i didn't change any of the original pipe from the center to the back quater about 10-20cm after the flex pipe. This cost me just a tad over 500. I was more impressed with the cleaness of best mufflers work. he is extremly busy so i had to wait a few months before i could get it in but it was worth the wait. I noticed it was a lot louder from the inside and i felt it had better bottom end gain and picked up quicker. I didn't do any before and afters on teh dyno tune with the VAFC2 which was the 127kw ATW. My euro is an 03 euro in manual.

Crapdaz

30-07-2008, 01:36 PM

Hey tony. I got best mufflers to put on an xforce cat and a bigger flex pipe and flange out the pipe into the original as i didn't change any of the original pipe from the center to the back quater about 10-20cm after the flex pipe. This cost me just a tad over 500. I was more impressed with the cleaness of best mufflers work. he is extremly busy so i had to wait a few months before i could get it in but it was worth the wait. I noticed it was a lot louder from the inside and i felt it had better bottom end gain and picked up quicker. I didn't do any before and afters on teh dyno tune with the VAFC2 which was the 127kw ATW. My euro is an 03 euro in manual.

yeh, should get mine dyno'd before i get a load of crap installed later.

aaronng

30-07-2008, 01:43 PM

The exedy clutch i felt was quite tough and rough. Arrong advised me to move the bite point which i did and it runs a bit smoother now. I am not sure if it helps on performace but i got it so my clutch wouldn't die after 60000km again. Initially not impressed with the heavy duty clutch but as i got use to it i guess its ok.
Did you tend to slip the clutch a little (0.5 seconds) each time you change gears? That could be why you got such short life from your original clutch. I was at about 65000km and been through 4 trackday and when I changed the clutch out, it still had lots of life left in it.

aaronng

30-07-2008, 01:44 PM

My euro is an 03 euro in manual.

I recommend you change your MTF if you haven't yet

Adrian Euro

30-07-2008, 01:55 PM

I recommend you change your MTF if you haven't yet

Whats a MTF????

Crapdaz

30-07-2008, 02:03 PM

Whats a MTF????
manual transmission fluid

is it best to do a flush or just drain and top up?
would it make much difference...

aaronng

31-07-2008, 10:17 AM

manual transmission fluid

is it best to do a flush or just drain and top up?
would it make much difference...
Just drain and fill back up. No point wasting money flushing. It is better to change it every 2 years using the drain and fill method rather than every 5 years using the flushing method.

Crapdaz

31-07-2008, 01:06 PM

Just drain and fill back up. No point wasting money flushing. It is better to change it every 2 years using the drain and fill method rather than every 5 years using the flushing method.

agree to that, will do it when i am recovered and have time.

EUR003act

06-10-2008, 08:04 PM

Yea i agree he spent alot of time on it and did numerous runs i think it was close to 6 or maybe even more. Was just wondering to myself exactly how often i would really push it out to 5700rpm which indy said was the most effective changeove rpoint.

i know its old post but... have you got dyno sheet yet? hows the car going now after a couple of months? has it relearnt anything yet?

as for your not sure how often you'll hit 5700rpm... theres no point in modding a K24 if your never going to rev above 5700... thats where all your power is... and even if you werent going to rev that high (cant see why not???) lowering the vtec point would only make you LOOSE power... so just leave it the way it is :thumbsup: :)

Adrian Euro

07-10-2008, 08:09 AM

i know its old post but... have you got dyno sheet yet? hows the car going now after a couple of months? has it relearnt anything yet?

as for your not sure how often you'll hit 5700rpm... theres no point in modding a K24 if your never going to rev above 5700... thats where all your power is... and even if you werent going to rev that high (cant see why not???) lowering the vtec point would only make you LOOSE power... so just leave it the way it is :thumbsup: :)

hey EUR003act. I have the dyno sheet but the stupid thing wont let me post it. I can send it you by email if you like as an attachment.

As for relearning. I am not sure but i dont think so becuase i can still feel the power and that. but honestly i probably wouldn't know if it did relearn itself. Would you be able to tell me what too look for?

The only problem i had with the VAFC2 was that my battery went flat and i had to jump start my car. This then made the VAFC2 reset itself to zero. So i had to dyno tune the VAFC2 again.

Does this help?

EUR003act

07-10-2008, 03:42 PM

hey EUR003act. I have the dyno sheet but the stupid thing wont let me post it. I can send it you by email if you like as an attachment.

As for relearning. I am not sure but i dont think so becuase i can still feel the power and that. but honestly i probably wouldn't know if it did relearn itself. Would you be able to tell me what too look for?

The only problem i had with the VAFC2 was that my battery went flat and i had to jump start my car. This then made the VAFC2 reset itself to zero. So i had to dyno tune the VAFC2 again.

Does this help?

i sent you PM with my email address... then ill post it up here... the only way to really be sure if it relearnt itself would be to re dyno and compare the two... but seeing as you got it retuned after ur battery died, it would prob be slightly different anyway...

EuroAccord13

07-10-2008, 04:16 PM

The VAFCii will not reset itself, it has EPROM memory which will not wipe out the setting when there is a power loss!

As for the ECU relearning, my tuner has dyno tested before, after and aftermath of the VAFCii to show that the the OEM ECU overwrites the VAFCii's settings and drawing the power back down from the original tune.