diy bushing removal tips

[vinnY]

anyone got any? been looking at doing some bushing installs/removals with the normal tools you'd have in your garage

came across this (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=154137) which seems to remove a general bush with a metal shell with nothing more than a punch, hammer, jigsaw and a bench vice

anyone else have any tips or tricks to getting them done? :)

[AE092]

Read abit on DIY bush changing, some guys used a blow torch to weaken then hammer it out.

I'd opt for a suspension specialist

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

Yeah blow torch and hammer seems to be the easiest and preferred option otherwise its a bitch to do

[bennjamin]

do NOT use a blow torch to remove normal bushes....such as lower control arms etc. This can weaken or damage the surrounding arm. Use a press and press em out.

The only bush you can burn out is the trailing arm bush. you can cut it out and burn the outer bits off.

[vinnY]

yeah i was gonna say no way i'm going to be torching near my lca's with such small holes

so a press is the only way around hey? no diy ghetto goodness to get out of this one?

[bennjamin]

get a press its like $110 from most supercheap and other similar shops....will make its worth back in no time. Cut some pipe with the same OD of the bush you want to push out/in and you are set.

[vinnY]

what shop presses are only $110?!
god damn gonna head out to get one this weekend hah

where on earth do i get pipe offcuts of the right size though?

[bennjamin]

step 1 buy a decent veneerr caliper
step 2 measure the exact OD and ID of the METAL casing of the bush....this is the section you want to "press"
step 3 find a piece of pipe or large washer etc , that fits within the OD and ID of the bush casing . that will be your press piece for it.

btw super cheap HAD the presses for 110. look at joplin.com.au , also try repco etc

[AE092]

offcuts can be had at any metal shop/supplier or machinist. They have a range of sizes and various compounds. Just make sure you know what your after

[vinnY]

thanks guys will look into it

going to be a fun couple weeks trying to press some hardrace bushings into my car :p

[string]

I changed all my bushes once. I will never change them again, it was not even close to being worth my time. On the scale of nasty I give it a 7/10.

Bennjamin: Have you changed your bushings with said press? Also could you please backup your bullshit about a blowtorch damaging the arm. Gimmie a break; how do you think any suspension place is going to get the new ones in?

Pedders will probably change all your bushings over for $110 if you bring in the arms.

DIY is great but sometimes it's false economy.

[bennjamin]

Bennjamin: Have you changed your bushings with said press? Also could you please backup your bullshit about a blowtorch damaging the arm. Gimmie a break; how do you think any suspension place is going to get the new ones in?


said press is a normal press.

http://grizzly.com/images/pics/jpeg288/h/h2871.jpg
super cheap auto had one for sale for 110 recently sold out.

as for my "bullshit" its common sense. Who would use a blowtorch to remove any bushes let alone a professional shop.Its NOT the best way to remove a bush at all. You press it out with a press then press the new one in.Drop the picky dicky anti-mod-because-he-has-a-say talk mr.

[fatboyz39]

i done 2 bushings pressing them in and out. Took me about an hour.

[string]

Sorry but your common sense fails. Unless you are burning out the bushing in a molten steel bath you'll be fine. The strength effects will be four-fifths of ****-all if that.

I do agree that no professional suspension place will burn out a bushing, because they have a press for that. But as for getting the new one in, heating the control arm is completely acceptable to get a better fit. It happens on a daily basis in many professional fitting fields.

I picked on your post because it's wrong. Where is the problem? If anything your posts should be criticized more often since people DO listen to what you say simply because you've got a lot of green dots and a fancy title.

[nd55]

> do NOT use a blow torch to remove normal bushes

Ben, I've used a smaller Portsol type pencil beam, butane blow torch to remove bushes before and there isn't enough heat tranferred to the suspension arm to be an issue.

Basically you direct the flame down the bore of the bush inner tube and wait till the rubber immediately surrounding the tube starts to smoke and the smell bad.

Then keep the flame on for a bit longer till you think it should have come out by now, then a bit more,... then use something (a screwdriver?) to force the tube to separate from the rubber and pop out.

It's still very slow and a nightmare of a job though.

I only used it to remove the center tube from the bush, them had to cut/file/hacksaw enough of the rubber til the bush fell out.

B@#$h of a job.

Also, I had a decent 20 ton press and could not get a LCA bush out. It seems with use the bushes expand and mould into the LCA hole, and are impossible to get out.

But everyone knows that....

Nick.

[bennjamin]

String you heat em ill press em in. How do you plan "melt" out a bush and reinstall another ? there is a external shell/case that will still be left behind with your blowtorch tatic. Thats why you use a press and press the entire shell out.


> do NOT use a blow torch to remove normal bushes

Ben, I've used a smaller Portsol type pencil beam, butane blow torch to remove bushes before and there isn't enough heat tranferred to the suspension arm to be an issue.

Basically you direct the flame down the bore of the bush inner tube and wait till the rubber immediately surrounding the tube starts to smoke and the smell bad.

Then keep the flame on for a bit longer till you think it should have come out by now, then a bit more,... then use something (a screwdriver?) to force the tube to separate from the rubber and pop out.

It's still very slow and a nightmare of a job though.

I only used it to remove the center tube from the bush, them had to cut/file/hacksaw enough of the rubber til the bush fell out.

B@#$h of a job.

Also, I had a decent 20 ton press and could not get a LCA bush out. It seems with use the bushes expand and mould into the LCA hole, and are impossible to get out.

But everyone knows that....

Nick.

nick , using a press as i earlier described (using a metal tube piece the same size as the ID and OD of the bush casing) will get it out.It sounds like you used the press and "pressed" the actual rubber bush itself rather than the casing? I have done it before on a few types of bushes , some for fun and some for my car and it wasnt overly hard just time to find a correctly sized pole piece OR socket piece to suit and then time to pressout and in new bushes.
What about others ?

[string]

I never once recommended the burning blow-torch method, stop implying that I did. It's perfectly valid if you have limit tools. Just because something isn't the best doesn't mean it won't work.

I called you on your complete lack of knowledge of materials, that is all.

You get a hacksaw and cut out a small sliver of the bushing such to reduce it's od, then it just falls out. If you have a steel cased bushing like OEM you'll have a very hard time beating it back in but it's possible if you heat up the arm and freeze the bushing. Poly is simple to get in.

So bennjamin you haven't answered my question have YOU actually changed your bushings before with the press? It takes a buff-arse press to get the stock bushings out, and if it does work I might have to invest in one of these presses.

[vinnY]

does it really take an act of god to push the bushing back in?
i mean the link that i threw in my original post documented that he used a bench vice to push the bushing (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1476130&postcount=3) back into place with a dab of grease and a few pieces of wood

[Sp00ny]

So bennjamin you haven't answered my question have YOU actually changed your bushings before with the press? It takes a buff-arse press to get the stock bushings out, and if it does work I might have to invest in one of these presses.

In the post above yours he quite clearly mentioned that he has done it several times.

I don't like to "butt in" but you sound like one of those "she'll be right" types of people and when you don't do things right you wonder why the outcome isnt as expected or something goes wrong and most of the time quick to blame something or someone else.

I am passionate about that sort of attitude as I have a mate exactly like that and it irritates me to the bone...and yet he still makes the same stupid damn mistakes, cuts corners and has a "she'll be right" attitude.

I don't understand why you would bash his comments, his arguement is perfectly valid. A blowtorch would heat it up a hell of a lot and the metal isnt made to resist extreme temperatures, even if the arm doesnt melt...it could warp...resulting in misalignment and future problems.......

Even my basic mechanic that doesnt do much suspension work, mainly cylinder head and engine work....has a bush press and offered to change bushes for me. He said it's easy the only issue is ripping the suspension apart to get to the bush you need to change, takes time.

Bottom line.....Even if burning it didnt result in any bad outcomes...why bother risking it? If you do something, do it properly or don't do it at all......

[string]

Stop projecting your mates problems onto me. I'm text on a screen you know NOTHING about me. I know how cars work and I know why cars work. I educate myself fully before working. Infact I'd wager that you actually know pretty much nothing about my DIY abilities at all so how about you keep your trap shut, there's no reason to try to insult me.

The amount of heat you are putting into the stock cast piece with a blow torch is peanuts. It's hilarious that you all think you are doing damage. You'd have to be heating them for days. If you think his comment is perfectly valid, open up a materials text book and start quoting. Warping and melting from a blowtorch? Sure maybe if you leave it for hours, bash it with a hammer then drop it in a bucket of iced water.

Again, I'm not recommending this method at all based purely on the fact that it's not a very pleasant thing to do. It works 100% however, and does as much damage as heating up an arm to get a bushing in.

Common sense does not make up for a lacking in engineering background which you clearly all don't come from. Educate yourselves before you start mouthing off about a topic you clearly have NO IDEA about.

[nd55]

This thread is degenerating a bit, I'll stick to my experiences.

> It sounds like you used the press and "pressed" the actual rubber bush itself rather than the casing?

Yep. The bushes are amazing to watch and see how much they flex without breaking.

Despite trying all sorts of matching anvils, trying to press on the bush OD and all that, soaking with penetrating oil etc, mine didn't want to budge.

Burning it out was an act of desperation.

I agree the press is the way to go, but careful application of heat is not the devil's work.

Nick.

[82911]

A bit of a "datum point"....
I engineer several race cars, and the fellow that i use to heat treat my 1 off machined suspension bush casings does this in a domestic oven.
So whilst i cannot provide any accurate figures on temps used i would say that they would be alot LOWER than anything produced by a blow torch.Not to mention the uneven heat spread.
Oh.... and I use a press, and have done for 20 years.
As I said... just a datum point.:cool:

[vinnY]

^so how strong a press will i need to get the job done?
seen a few cheapy 6tonne jobbies around, more expensive 20tonne jobbies around too

[AE092]

Thats like 20 EG Civics packed altogether and pressed down upon a rubber compound bushing, man imagine that lol

[vinnY]

thats the thing though, on one hand we have nd55


B@#$h of a job.

Also, I had a decent 20 ton press and could not get a LCA bush out. It seems with use the bushes expand and mould into the LCA hole, and are impossible to get out.

But everyone knows that....

Nick.

then we have 82911


Oh.... and I use a press, and have done for 20 years.

so we have a man here with experience.. it CAN be done
but nd55 says a 20t shop press isn't enough
what will do the job then?

[fatboyz39]

just leave it to the pro's LOL

[vinnY]

bah wheres your backyard performance philosophy :p

[bennjamin]

bah wheres your backyard performance philosophy :p

you use a press . Thats how they are originally installed. Press em in and out.
Full stop.

I used a mates press (20t , smallish one) and it worked fine. slow , but fine.

As said again aind again you get the correct sized piece , the size same or inbetween the ID and OD of the metal casing and push it out. push new one in.

[fatboyz39]

bah wheres your backyard performance philosophy :p

backyard will just burn them and smash it in with a hammer.

Still holding up after trackdays :p:p

[Eclipsor]

I burnt the rubber and cut the outer sleeves with a hacksaw to get mine out.

The ES replacements were easy to get in because of no outer sleeve. The prothane ones did have a sleeve though. I got them in by getting a big ass right angle bracket from bunnings. cut it in half to get two flat pieces. Drilled a hole in them both. Then put a bolt through and used a rattle gun to tighten the sleeve into the control arm. As you can see on the bench, went through a few washers though. Bad picture:

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v124/216/47/579475940/n579475940_516120_286.jpg

[vinnY]

^ yeah i was considering that
using the plate would just get the bushing in but not half way through the arm though
how did you overcome that?
actually i got an idea of what i wanna use.. trip to bunnings tomorrow :)

[bennjamin]

interesting , this was for the actual smaller diameter bushes IE lca etc ? i replaced trailing arm bushes the exact same way you have shown above. much easier with the increased scale. But for all other bushes i intend to replace with oem and do the press way in and out

[82911]

^ a woodworking vise?
Ah......... now I see what we are really up against here! lol!
Seriously though.... Get the 20 tonne press you will use the extra force one day and if nothing else they are much sturdier than the small "toy presses" This counts for plenty when the thing falls over and tries to kill you!

[vinnY]

yep a vice :p
just trying to find alternatives because i honestly don't see myself using a press any other time, and i don't quite have the space in my backyard to store the darn thing

anyone have a press they wanna rent out? ;)


seen some kits such as this one on egay:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2204/45210tk5.gif
can't see why i can't kit up something similar from bunnings or something
whether it actually works or not is another question

[82911]

Vinny, nothing at all wrong with that as an alternative to a press. Presses are one of those things that sit in the corner and you hang all manner of shit off, untill you really need it. Then you remember why you bought one.
A tip... If you are putting together a kit yourself using sections of pipe with threaded rod through the middle with a flat plate on either end. Don't be tempted with exhaust tube (too thin) grab some offcuts of steam pipe at least .0.188" wall thickness and go .0250" on the end plates.
High tensile booker rod in 0.500"UNC is perfect for the job of pulling it all together.:thumbsup:

[vinnY]

and for the metric folks
0.188" = 4.77mm wall thickness
0.250" = 6.35mm end plates
0.500" = 12.7mm rod

unc = unified course thread?

will see what i can dig up while i'm there :)

ot; been bugging me for a few hours now.. southern highlands = bowral?
or maybe i'm completely wrong since you're quoting figures in imperial :p

[82911]

UNC= Unified National Coarse.:thumbsup:
Not Bowral, but close by. Still freezing.Certainly closer than the moors or the mossy isle!
Imperial, because I'm a little older and it is a legacy of being brought up on cast iron V8 muscle.:cool:

[vinnY]

ah that explains it ;)
appears the press might be the only way to get the metal shell out unfortunately if you rule out cutting the shell and hammering it out

interested to know whether a 6t or a 12t press would be able to do the job
see if i can split the cost of the press with a mate :p

one of the main reasons why i want to be able to do it at home is because it's a daily driver, this way i can just do it over a couple weekends or something and learnt a bit along the way. always satisfying to know i can do something new

[Sp00ny]

Stop projecting your mates problems onto me. I'm text on a screen you know NOTHING about me. I know how cars work and I know why cars work. I educate myself fully before working. Infact I'd wager that you actually know pretty much nothing about my DIY abilities at all so how about you keep your trap shut, there's no reason to try to insult me.

The amount of heat you are putting into the stock cast piece with a blow torch is peanuts. It's hilarious that you all think you are doing damage. You'd have to be heating them for days. If you think his comment is perfectly valid, open up a materials text book and start quoting. Warping and melting from a blowtorch? Sure maybe if you leave it for hours, bash it with a hammer then drop it in a bucket of iced water.

Again, I'm not recommending this method at all based purely on the fact that it's not a very pleasant thing to do. It works 100% however, and does as much damage as heating up an arm to get a bushing in.

Common sense does not make up for a lacking in engineering background which you clearly all don't come from. Educate yourselves before you start mouthing off about a topic you clearly have NO IDEA about.


You have a valid point, but I was commenting that if you do something why not do it right and also how you came out of no where and bashed him for it...what he said is common sense....what you are saying should come from a background knowledge as you would want to ENSURE that nothing will go wrong....

YOUR ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! Im not 100% it would damage as i recall i said it probebly wouldnt! But i DO NOT have nor do most people on this forum have the KNOWLEDGE to SAY 100% that it WILL NOT DAMAGE beyond all REASONABLE DOUBT.

DIY Jobs I have Done.
- Brakes: Disks/Pads/Flush/Lines/MasterCylinder
- Clutch Master Cylinder
- I do my own services (Trans/Motor Oil/Coolant etc.)
- Installed Swaybar and a few bushes.
- Installed Wired up and Soldered/Mounted Sound System (Eclipse Deck, 4chan AMP, Monoblock and Sub) Mounted Speakers (MB Quart Reference)
- Reconditioned Rims
- Changed Exhaust Gaskets/Mounted Cat-Back
- Changed Oil Pan
- Done a ValveLashAdjustment three times (Differant Cars, NOT fun, lol)
- Changed PCV Valve & Cleaned IACV/FITV valves
- Cut (Once/Twice) then Clay, Seal and Wax my car regularly

I also did a HID Retrofit with Lexus RX-330 HID Projectors. Fitting and Alignment. Also not what i would call a fun project, lol.

Every bolt i touch is also torqued to spec with a KC TorqueWrench...

Your right im no engineer, but I have a steady background of Hands on and factual knowledge of cars in general and in my opinion it is possible that it will damage or deform the arms. Even though as I mentioned i do think its doubtful, the way i see it....why bother risking it.

Also I have a question, you mentioned that you changed all your bushes. How noticable was the handling differance and if you had the time spare would you recommend it?

[Sp00ny]

ah that explains it ;)
appears the press might be the only way to get the metal shell out unfortunately if you rule out cutting the shell and hammering it out

interested to know whether a 6t or a 12t press would be able to do the job
see if i can split the cost of the press with a mate :p

one of the main reasons why i want to be able to do it at home is because it's a daily driver, this way i can just do it over a couple weekends or something and learnt a bit along the way. always satisfying to know i can do something new

This is a little off topic but what is your signature about? Is it genuine or a joke? lol

[Eclipsor]

^ yeah i was considering that
using the plate would just get the bushing in but not half way through the arm though
how did you overcome that?
actually i got an idea of what i wanna use.. trip to bunnings tomorrow :)

Yeah only gets it flush with the back side. But that's the hardest part. Once they're that far its pretty easy to tap it the rest of the way with a hammer. Protecting the sleeve with something. You'll need a good high tensile bolt though. I got a few from bunnings while I was there and they just snapped. Good old honda bolt worked the best.

If you had another pice of pipe that was slightly larger diameter than the sleeve you could put that on the back side.

[string]

I jumped onto it because it would be a shame for a DIY noob to come along and automatically assume that all and any heat = bad. Steel is an amazing material; a lot tougher than most people think. You are right in that being careful and aware is a good trait. The blowtorch method is not the best and thats a fact we all know. However it still works fine if you want to do it on a tight budget. Ask anyone who's done it, exactly how shit it is to do though... I've not done it personally on my own car (as I still don't recommend it) but have watched it done and it didn't look fun to say the least.

I replaced most of the bushings with Energy Suspension polyurethane about 3 years ago now. They've been rather quiet considering I've never sat down and re-lubed them all at once. They do squeak when they dry up though. I couldn't tell the performance difference to be honest. My old bushings weren't bad IIRC and some days I actually regret it as a few of them are wearing badly (not due to bad design or anything just my particular application must be binding it a little and grinding it down).

If I were to go polyurethane again I'd go for a sleeve type bushing similar to OEM instead of the sliding shaft of the Energy Suspension bushings. I'm getting over only having a single car for both daily duties and fun, so next time it'll be OEM bushes in OEM arms, and separate arms for track work and testing.

[vinnY]

yeah i got the hard race ones, pretty much the same as oem(no sliding shaft) just tougher than oem thats all

took a mates noltec bushes out of his dc2 just hours ago, the inserts had deformed and squeaked
we replace it with dc2r lca's and shocks, no more squeaks and bounces :)

[vinnY]

in other news
ordered a 12t shop press
should be receiving it this week
see how i go :)

[82911]

Vinny, shouldn't have told everyone that you have a press.....
See how many extra friends develop now....lol!
"can I come around and say g'day?" "Oh and do you mind if you quickly press these bushes out for me....my acetylene bottle is empty!":)

[vinnY]

oh i mean.. what press ;) :p

[82911]

:zip::thumbsup:

[Jon_51]

do you mind if I ask where from and how much you got your press for vinny?

[vinnY]

quick everyone make friends with jon not me :p

[thepope1986]

instead of pipe get yourself a set of 3/4 inch sockets (cheapies) and use them. thats what we use at work and dont have any problems. and using the Oxy on suspension parts actually damages the steel/ alloy. when you apply heat to the metal you actually change the structure of said metal. only use Oxy in you A) gammin B) have no other option. plus a press is kinda handy

[bennjamin]

instead of pipe get yourself a set of 3/4 inch sockets (cheapies) and use them. thats what we use at work and dont have any problems. and using the Oxy on suspension parts actually damages the steel/ alloy. when you apply heat to the metal you actually change the structure of said metal. only use Oxy in you A) gammin B) have no other option. plus a press is kinda handy

Exact point i made earlier :) Do it right the first time with the proper tool !
Its not good to state X method works even tho it is unsafe , noobs and others alike might take this to heart and try it themselves with possible issues/accidents/litigation.

[vinnY]

i got an old set of sockets i could probably use, just have to actually get around to putting the press together