BSA Wheels and Wheel Studs

[tedh1951]

I've just fitted some BSA wheels to my VTiS 2005, and am concerned that the front wheels need a 5mm spacer to clear the caliper - that, and the extra wheel thickness at the hub, gives the wheel nuts 8mm less grip than stock. The same wheels minimise grip length of the rear studs by 3mm. Is there any data from a workshop manual describing the disassembly of the hubs with the view to installing appropriately longer studs (particularly on the front)? All the online service manuals don't cut the mustard for me. Anything new since April 2006? I DO NOT want to grind away new studs to fit into the back of the hub, partly because I think new longer studs will not go in anyhow - stock ones might, but 8mm extra probably wont.

[AE092]

i had to put longer wheel studs to fit my previous wheel set. If you know the diameter and length of the OEM wheel stud, call up Bursons and they should be able to supply with one slightly longer

Thats all i can think of at the moment. Wheel spacers aren't safe or legal unless their Hubcentric. Theres a big discussion on spacers but yeh i personally wouldn't run them

Cheers

[tedh1951]

Thanks for the response. I've done a bit of research and am convinced that a 5mm spacer is, in fact, legal providing it is attached to the wheel or the hub and not left to float loose. A bit of silicone behind the carefully centered spacer and "glued" to the hub rather than the wheel so that any of the wheels can be interchanged makes engineering sense. It was just the wheel stud lengths that bothered me and how to disassemble the front hub to install the new, longer studs, as the on-line manuals don't help much.

[SPQR]

Thanks for the response. I've done a bit of research and am convinced that a 5mm spacer is, in fact, legal providing it is attached to the wheel or the hub and not left to float loose. A bit of silicone behind the carefully centered spacer and "glued" to the hub rather than the wheel so that any of the wheels can be interchanged makes engineering sense. It was just the wheel stud lengths that bothered me and how to disassemble the front hub to install the new, longer studs, as the on-line manuals don't help much.

I don't think that spacers are legal in any state or territory of Ozland, even if you have glued them on. The correct fix is to replace the studs with longer studs.

[tedh1951]

I don't think that spacers are legal in any state or territory of Ozland, even if you have glued them on. The correct fix is to replace the studs with longer studs.

The spacer is necessarilly there for the wheel to clear the caliper - longer studs then become necessary due to the spacer and the variation in the the aftermarket wheel centre thickness verses stock.

From an engineering perspective, providing the track (offset) doesn't change then the resultant forces through the bearing must remain the same. Providing the spacers are correctly centered (and you can achieve this by bottoming out the tapered wheel nuts against the spacer because the whole shootin' match then self centres) and is attached to the hub for wheel interchangeability AND the extra length studs are correctly torqued (yes ALL your nuts and bolts should be torqued especially your wheel nuts), then there should be no engineering impact.

Torqueing the wheels nuts to the 80 lb/ft settings (Jazz figures) ensures that distortion in the wheel and hub assemblies are minimised. On wheels with a large pitch centre diameter for the wheel nuts (think FJ Holden or early VW beetle) inconsistent wheel nut torque WILL cause brake and wheel vibration - and to a lesser degree on smaller pitch centre diameters.

Now, anybody know where I can access a GOOD online manual for the GD3 - please? Thanks for all your well considered comments.:wave:

[SPQR]

I was just stating what is legal in NSW. Whether or not you think that it is OK from an engineering viewpoint matters nothing of the Law in your State is that wheel spacers are not a legal fitment unless originally fitted by the original manufacturer of your car. Also, we all know how particular insurance companies are about all things "wheels". The implication is if something happens involving your car's wheels and you have an accident, your insurance company may not pay your claim.

The following is an extract from RTA Vehicle Standard No.9 (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi09_rev4.pdf). See the last bullet point below.

Additional requirements for replacement wheels
When wheels and tyres outside the manufacturers recommended range are fitted to a vehicle the following
requirements must be met:
• The wheel rim width must not be less than the minimum width fitted by the vehicle manufacturer for the
particular model.
• The wheel and tyre must be contained within the body work or mudguards (including any flares) when the
wheels are in the straight ahead position.
• The wheel and tyre must not foul any part of the body or suspension under all operating conditions.
• All wheels and tyres fitted to an axle must be of the same carcass construction, diameter, offset, width and
mounting configuration (except for spare wheels used in an emergency situation).
• The wheel must not prevent the wheel nuts from fully engaging their studs.
• The wheel rim must not have a circumferential weld other than that which attaches the rim to the wheel
centre.
• The wheel must be one designed for the particular hub/axle in respect to bolt pitch circle diameter and
wheel nut tapers. Wheels with slotted stud holes are not permitted.
• Speedometer accuracy must be maintained for the selected tyre and rim combination.
• The fitment of wheel spacers (or adaptors for dual wheel conversions) between the wheel mounting face
and the road wheel is not permitted unless fitted as original equipment by the vehicle manufacturer.

I don't know of any State or Territory in Australia where wheel spacers are a legal fitment.

[tedh1951]

SPQR,
Of course you are correct, many thanks for pointing that out. I did actually go to the RTA website after posting last and found exactly what you described and what you have now included. I guess my only option, if am to persevere with these wheels, is to have them assessed by an engineer after installing longer studs. Cheers.

[DVS-00R]

Off the topic abit but got any pics? Interested in how it looks as I'm looking into some rims myself.

[tedh1951]

OK - no problems, give me a couple of days - I'll get the little beast washed and knock out a few photos when it is at it's prettiest. Mine's a light blue metal flake GD3 2005 VTiS. The wheels look really nice, black centres in a polished alloy rim, although it took me a little while to get used to them.

The BSA wheels are a quality piece of kit - not the cheap crap that comes with really lousy knockdown price tyres. These wheels were recently purchased to be fitted to a white '91 Civic 4 door (which now fails to proceed) and probably explains why the calipers are just ever so slightly too full for clearance. I know the spacers are not legal but the price was right for wheels of this quality. If they were cheapies I wouldn't consider the longer studs and 5mm spacer - because I would NOT be happy putting junk on such a nice little car.

[tedh1951]

I promised some photos - but I've got to play with them and get the size down a bit - won't get to that until Mon 18AUG2008 when I get back to work. They need to be less than 500kb and at the moment they are 6 x that.

These wheels and tyres were supplied by Alan from Torcu Tyres at Chullora NSW - nice bloke, engineering background, excellent advice for those who may be interested - Alan will not recommend (or sell) cheap imported rubbish so he is a good resource for Honda chaps and chapettes - putting junk accessories on a good car sort of defeats the purpose.

If that's what you want - get a Hyundai.

Stand-by for the images. I will include a picture of a bit of seagull poop on my window too - just for fun.

[tedh1951]

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z75/funkdr_photos/Martin/Civic001.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z75/funkdr_photos/Martin/Jazz001.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z75/funkdr_photos/Martin/Jazz007.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z75/funkdr_photos/Martin/Jazz008.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z75/funkdr_photos/Martin/Jazz009.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z75/funkdr_photos/Martin/Jazz010.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z75/funkdr_photos/Martin/Jazz011.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z75/funkdr_photos/Martin/Jazz012.jpg

Here you go - and I have included the Civic that provided the source for these wheels
- enjoy, or not, up to you. I quite like them though.

[bOneZz]

is that donnolley park lol? i live near there =] nice car... how did you get so many letters on your numberplate dude?

[tedh1951]

is that donnolley park lol? i live near there =] nice car... how did you get so many letters on your numberplate dude?

i. Yes
ii. Me too
iii. Scullduggery + Micrografx + a printer heh! heh!
(Didn't think anyone would notice).

[tedh1951]

Sat down and very carefully analysed the wheel stud problem - turns out I have over compensated with a 5mm spacer and it is not necessary after all. I need a 1mm aluminium alloy disc to provide the necessary clearance for the brake caliper. This will have no impact on standard wheelstuds and means that the whole problem is one of perception. The drama with 5mm spacers, extended length wheel studs and minimum grip lengths are the result of poor measuring on my part. It seems that the depth gauge slipped into a slight recess on the standard GD3 wheels (which the BSA wheels don't have) making the stock wheel hub appear 3mm thinner than the BSA wheel, that plus a 5mm spacer (some poor advice) created my so-called problem. Thanks for all the valuable input.