JSRC or NA Build

[Civic VTi-R]

Hi guys, just wanted ur info as to which of the two above i should do... I have a EM1 and am looking to go to more track days but atm it dosnt have enough "GO", so what i basically wanted to do was get some more power but hopefuly without comprimising it as a everydayer and still having the good steering charistics, so give me your thoughts and other info i most probably left out, cheers

[dsp26]

i would go the jackson racing route if you can find someone to ship to aus.. it's be the equivalent of doing a b20vtec+mild cams.

NA is too expensive.. just experiencing it now and the tallied cost... but no matter how many people, tell you that, you never fully realise the extent of the expense until you pick up all your receipts for small parts like cams, valvetrain, exhaust, labour, etc and realise you've just spent like $5k on NA car that still won't beat a mild boosted setup.

[rpm boy]

With the proper cooling mods for the eaton style jackson style supercharger it will be a great asset for the track

[dsp26]

With the proper cooling mods for the eaton style jackson style supercharger it will be a great asset for the track

kit doesn't come with cooler and afaik it doesn't need or benefit from one unlike the centrifugal vortech supercharger kit...

[rpm boy]

I personally wouldnt take a chance especially if your going to be doing race days... beef up the cooling,brakes and handling

[vinnY]

afaik the jrsc replaces the intake manifold alltogether so i don't see how you can cool it the air before going to the motor?

unless you're talking about beefed up radiator and oil cooler as your 'cooling mods'

[dsp26]

afaik the jrsc replaces the intake manifold alltogether so i don't see how you can cool it the air before going to the motor?

unless you're talking about beefed up radiator and oil cooler as your 'cooling mods'

lol actually your right.. couldn't remember why theres no cooler

[rpm boy]

Yep should have been more clear, beef up the radiator and get an oil cooler as you cant have an intercooler with the old jrsc

[Civic VTi-R]

hey guys just spoke to my mechanic, he reckons supercharged is the way to go and that i have to decide wat one to go with.
he races a lotus with a K20 that has a JRSC and say's it one of the best engines that he has raced, So do i go for a JRSC or a vortech SC??

he also said that if i got the JRSC i would need to get a 3 core alloy radiator and a decent oil cooler

wat do you guys think??

[dsp26]

vortech would be out of your pricrange.. US$8k versus US$3k for jsr.

and i don't know where your going to get a 3 core radiator

[Limbo]

3 core you can get from teh states, or get one custom made

[rpm boy]

Ebay if u dare for the 3 core but theres plenty of places in the states, but def jrsc for the reasons that, 1 u onlywant 6psi and 2 its hell cheap. (grind off the JRSC symbol off the sc so u dont have to engineer it :P)

[vinnY]

^don't see where he said he only wanted 6psi :p

either way if you go ahead with it make sure to document it... lots of people here eager to know the ups and downs of supercharging a honda down under

[rpm boy]

Cause he cant drive :P

[dsp26]

^don't see where he said he only wanted 6psi :p

either way if you go ahead with it make sure to document it... lots of people here eager to know the ups and downs of supercharging a honda down under

me included... further build im tossing up between b18 block or jsr supercharger.

the one benefit of superchargers i like is that you get to keep all your NA mods like extractors :p

[eg5civic]

hit up PWR for a 3 core radiator.... i'm pretty sure we could make it (as i work there) but it'll cost you a mint....

[vinnY]

quick fly to the states to pickup the free (http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2352708) supercharger on offer :p

[NightKids]

So what's the story behind this kayeyeem guy in ur avatar? Plz share...

[Civic VTi-R]

Cause he cant drive :P

dude for that comment your never driving my car again!

[Civic VTi-R]

^don't see where he said he only wanted 6psi :p

either way if you go ahead with it make sure to document it... lots of people here eager to know the ups and downs of supercharging a honda down under

i dont think i would want to run more than 6psi if im going to be using it as a daily driver, if i get bored then ill up it, that guy thats giving away his JRSC was running 5.5psi on his ITR.

if everything go's to plan ill start a build thread with as many pics as possible (mite need a new camera first)
not 100% sure yet if its gonna happen, need more feed back

[dsp26]

^^found a place to order the JSR?

if its a daily driver you will want to up the boost, the 8psi and 12psi pulleys are cheap as chips.. remember the power delivery is backwards to a turbo.. instant boost (torque) that tapers off as rpms rise.

[vinnY]

actually anyone have a power/torque curve from a jrsc b16 or a b18?
i've only read about people getting x amount of power and torque but never really have any dynosheets to show how the power delivery is like

[dsp26]

actually anyone have a power/torque curve from a jrsc b16 or a b18?
i've only read about people getting x amount of power and torque but never really have any dynosheets to show how the power delivery is like

can't find any now... but by about redline the power gain isn't much more than stock (by American dyno standards).. the increases are low-mid.. almost a stokish car at very high rpms similar to the dyno curve of very small turbo cars like the gt starlet

[rpm boy]

For a sc your not really looking to get more overall power as such, rather you want greater acceleration at the lower end of your engine, which is a great application for circuit racing as you cannot always keep your car in vtec around corners and tight windy tracks, for overall power and 1/4 mile u want a turbo set up cause your flat to the floor in all gears and dont have to worry about power below say 5000rpm, also just reading up a bit more on the jrsc you dont really want to go more than 9psi cause of heat issues that can occur with the eaton style supercharger and anything more then 9psi you have the cost of a forged engine to add to your build which can get expensive so keeping it to 6psi with the oil cooler and radiator will be a great little package for everyday and track days

[vinnY]

yeah i was actually interested in seeing what sort of torque increase is at the bottom end and what rpm range will it stop helping at

apparently in some h-t threads they say it's only efficient between 0-3800rpm which i assume the torque curve just flattens out until redline?
if thats the case then it would make driving a b16 a hell lot more exciting

[rpm boy]

Im thinking that cam gears would help you bridge the gap between the sc peak power and vtec kicking in... would be interesting to see some different tunes and the curves they produce

[Civic VTi-R]

^^found a place to order the JSR?

if its a daily driver you will want to up the boost, the 8psi and 12psi pulleys are cheap as chips.. remember the power delivery is backwards to a turbo.. instant boost (torque) that tapers off as rpms rise.

found a few on ebay but they are all used (about 10,000kms)

emailed jacksons racing waiting on a price
i also found a few 3 core radiators start at about $700

[dsp26]

not much of help to you but i thought i'd post this as something to keep you motivated :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxJh-vIU57s

[vinnY]

not much of help to you but i thought i'd post this as something to keep you motivated too :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rfuz2bXKxk

[dsp26]

^^spinout.. i thought you like epic phailed on quoting my post coz you didn't even re-word it hahaha.

that vid is NA though?

[vinnY]

well it is a jrsc vs na build thread :p

can't be bias towards jrsc only ;)

[Civic VTi-R]

OMG!!! that NA sounds unreal, but the civic with the jrsc is pritty quick

[rpm boy]

...... jrsc $2000 radiator $700 oil cooler $150 > NA 10000rpm engine 15-20k

[vinnY]

i know i know.. just shit stirring ron :p
jrsc will be better money spent for the street warrior

[Civic VTi-R]

vinnY why did you have to show me that.... wat a tease

[EK1.6LCIV]

bring on more sc Honda's yeow!

[Civic VTi-R]

hey guys just lettin you know so far there is a 80% chance that ill be going ahead with the build...... cant wait

[EK1.6LCIV]

hell yes, there's a few on EJ8Squad who've done this in the past with positive results, go champ!

[rpm boy]

100% u should be, best way to build a strong road/track car

[Civic VTi-R]

yes master yoda, 100% i will be...............................soon :P

[fatboyz39]

supercharge b16a will be different.

[rpm boy]

Well hurry up by the time u finish i will have another car... and you know how long thats gona take

[Perry]

Any updates?

[Civic VTi-R]

Any updates?

hey guys just got a quote from jackson's racing in the US $2400 including shipping, they only have 2 in stock.
still looking for a desent 3 core radiator (can anyone help)
and i gotta start looking for an oil cooler


then i need the dosh!

[vinnY]

^cheap as, anything else you need to add to the kit to work?

[Civic VTi-R]

^cheap as, anything else you need to add to the kit to work?

nothing... the only thing my mechanic said i should be doing is gettin a brake up-grade :p

[aimre]

wait, why not turbo?

[Civic VTi-R]

wait, why not turbo?

Why turbo????

[dsp26]

hey guys just got a quote from jackson's racing in the US $2400 including shipping, they only have 2 in stock.
still looking for a desent 3 core radiator (can anyone help)
and i gotta start looking for an oil cooler


then i need the dosh!

fark thats cheap... is that direct from jackson racing?

does it include that ecu that usually comes with the kit as well as the rc engineering 310cc injectors?

[NightKids]

Can ya supercharge a D16Y1

[rpm boy]

wait, why not turbo? cause he wants to use it for a track car on the weekends, and a turbo kis is best suited for straight line which dosnt really suite a fwd car around corners, plus the overall power with the civic will be the same it will just be a broarder torque curb,

NIghtkids, yes im preety sure jrsc has a kit got the sohc 1.6 civic supposed to eat up alot of the vtec cars as well

[Perry]

hey guys just got a quote from jackson's racing in the US $2400 including shipping, they only have 2 in stock.
still looking for a desent 3 core radiator (can anyone help)
and i gotta start looking for an oil cooler


then i need the dosh!

my old manchanic was running a JC setup on a b20/b18c didnt require a 3 core radiator. But the price is cheap what you have been quoted.

[dsp26]

wait, why not turbo? cause he wants to use it for a track car on the weekends, and a turbo kis is best suited for straight line which dosnt really suite a fwd car around corners, plus the overall power with the civic will be the same it will just be a broarder torque curb,

NIghtkids, yes im preety sure jrsc has a kit got the sohc 1.6 civic supposed to eat up alot of the vtec cars as well

depends.. if he wanted best of both worlds i'd go the vortech kit... turbo would be good for a longer track like eastern creek (but that also depends on turbo setup) but the jsrc would probably be ideal for something like wakefield where you can power out of the many corners.. at the end of the day.. jsrc is bolt-on and can be removed easily, he can retain most of his NA mods instead of paying extra to get things done for a turbo

[eg5civic]

Hey mateI was talking to some of my workmates (at PWR) and he reckons we could make a twin cores that woulld more that satisfy your needs

I can get you contact details if you need

[nigs]

:o Pretty cheap for a JRSC.
Nice and different.

Questionable if it's the better setup for track though. Even more so if a LSD is absent.

I had troubles with powering out of corners with a stockish 1.8L, NO LSD.

Obviously a SC setup will add plenty of power down low but how much do you gain @ peak rpm?
Isn't that the goal when building a track setup?

If you're only going to get a 10% increase (random percentage I'm using as example) @ 6,000rpm+. Then is it really worth it. Since you'll be at those rpms most of the time on track...? No?

I'd imagine it would be one fun street car though :)

[dsp26]

^^^depends on the track.. heres a good example (although handling has a lot to do with it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu7UO9K4Quo

a top end extensive car can't power out of corners if its got no low end grunt.. but yes a good compromise can be achieved with a smaller/miler turbo setup

[nigs]

ugh...if you're comparing the NSX vs the Lambos...

The Murc has AWD and a V10, accelerating out of corners isn't really a issue for that car....just a guess.

[rpm boy]

Yep will definately have to get a lsd to get full potential of the sc and the peak power will be minimal/ if any, but we have to remember that the EM1 is a biggish car almost the same size as a teg but has the smaller b16 which is still great but that extra torque that the sc gives will give it the edge that it needs, bigger supercharger or small turbo setup would be good as well but its not going to be a full on track car so everyday driving is another "obstacle" that has to be looked at when building it, plus turbo you would possibly have to do an engine rebuild do you can get some decent boost and its an added cost for whats basically a great streeter thats going to be going to track days.
Also theres good bolt on's and plus a good tune that will help with peak HP but another thing that has to be considered is the handling setup for road/race car thats going to be emptying the pockets as well, so for the power it gives and what its worth its good to do

[Civic VTi-R]

hey guys sorry ive been abit of a dog, been in melbourne the last week (some nice looking honda's down there)

reading all the post's has got me G'ed for this build.
eg5civic any info on the 2 core? price? where?

wen i get some time ill put up a list of wat i wonna do to me baby

gotta jet

[eg5civic]

Mate prices vary really

We ship by air freight so no problems about shipping

If you'd like me to ask i'm guessing the cars an Ek, So you want a twin core... there are different tube sizes and what not all depending on how much you want to spend but i can find out a rough from-too price if you like

Or i can put you on to one of our sales people

And i'm talking about buying direct from PWR which is located at Ormeau in QLD

[rpm boy]

...would the conversion of a full rediator instead of the half on that it already has improve the cooling as well... would that be a consideration when making the pwr one?

[eg5civic]

lol pwr just outflow and outpreform most radiators

we're making twin flow ones where its half the size ie 300mm long but it goes around in a U shape in the end tank and returns to the side it originated from but via the back row of tubes

SO effectively its 600mm rad but in a more compact space

Cooling is determined more by surface area... its pretty technical... mroeso than you;d think.. i'm still learning alot about it

[aimre]

Why turbo????


potential x100000000

[rpm boy]

...Dont get me wrong turbo is a way more efficient way to get power and will get you more power than an SC but that would mean that boost would be above the 9psi that the JRSC would provide, which is great for a straight line but once your running righer boost levels its just wheel spin in a front wheel drive through corners which you dont want.