tyre rotation screws up steering wheel

[hotout]

after dealer tyre rotation, notice steering wheel is slightly off centre. Easy to fix? what is the explanation for it?

[T-onedc2]

This happened to one of our work vans the other week, I rotated the wheels and it went away. The tyres are well worn so it was a final rotation to get the last bit out of them.

My thoughts are that a tyre has uneven wear due to poor alignment or balancing, perhaps a wheel weight even fell off at some stage.

In my experience even our local tyre shop doesn't always get it right, take it back to get it rechecked and tell them what's wrong.

[JohnL]

Balance has nothing to do with it. Imbalance only causes vibration, not a 'pull' to one side nor the steering wheel to be off centre.

Is the car now 'pulling' left or right, or now not 'pulling where it did before?

Whatever, it will be probably associated either with unequal or different tyre wear pattern, or with differences in tyre 'conicity' (tyre to tyre). When you move tyres around so that you now have tyres with different wear patterns / degrees of wear in different positions on the car, you may get a change in 'pull' one way or another, because wear pattern can cause a tendency to pull (i.e. for the tyre to not want to exactly follow the direction in which it's ponted).

This may not be enough to feel strongly at the steering wheel, but may be manifested as needing to turn the wheels a bit in one direction in order for the car to track straight, hence the steering wheel being off centre.

'Conicity' is to do with how the tyre is constructed. Many tyres (even good expensive ones) can come off the production line with the tread belts slightly off centre (just a few mm), and this can cause the tyre to pull slightly in one direction or the other. On new tyres you'll see lines painted on the circumference of the tyre, and these lines denote the conicity of the tyre.

At the factory the tyres are placed in a machine that rotates the tyre with some force against a rolling drum, the machine then measuring how much the tyre 'pulls' in one direction or the other. The circumferential lines are then marked on the tyre to denote the conicity of the tyre.

If you have tyres with conicity markings around the centre of the tread, then conicity is zero, but if the markings are offset to one side then conicity exists. In this case the tyres should be fitted so that the markings are equally offset, i.e. two tyres (at an axle line) with equal but offset markings should be mounted on the car with the markings on each tyre to the outside of the car (or inside). In this way the 'pull' inherant in each tyre will cancel out the 'pull' from the other tyre on that axle line, and the car will track straight, with no pull at the steering wheel and the wheel at the straight ahead position (all else being equal).

If you rotate tyres, then since the markings have worn off you can end up with unknown conicity, perhaps with two tyres both pulling in the same direction on an axle line...

Of course there is always the possibility that you have a misalignment in the steering / suspension, and previosly had a tyre(s) on that axle line that had a pull that was masking an alignment problem, but now that you've rotated...?

[MRGRIM]

good points JohnL

you only ever swap front to rear NEVER side to side
Heres why !!
A little know fact is you never ever rotate a tyre as to change its direction from first fitment as when a tyre starts its life
on a car the Radial belts move in the direction of resistance
"" tyres cure on your car in the first 200K's ""...if you then change the direction you then move the Radial belts again disturbing them
and can cause carcus movment also cutting short the life of the tyres this is why the top market tyres only have a single direction
on them in 90% of these it has nothing to do with the tread its simply due to safety and the design of a real radial also prolonging tyre life and performance

i found out all this info while building tyres for a living and also hurting my wallet cos my 4x4 tyres cost just over $2500.00 a set(4)
and i killed them in only 15,000K's (( killed by ..rippled tread, buldging walls, displaced radials))

NOTE: tyre dealers rotate your tyres to wear them out faster mmm means more sales they know the truth just ask them

[migoreng]

my prelude has the blade rims so they gotta stay on the same side otherwise it twirls the wrong way :D




In my experience even our local tyre shop doesn't always get it right, take it back to get it rechecked and tell them what's wrong.

my steering wheel was dead straight before lowering my car.

after lowering i got a wheel alignment and steering wheel was slanted a little when going straight.

it's been nearly 3 weeks so the springs have settled and i hoped something would straighten out a little but the steering wheel is still crooked when driving straight >:(
why couldn't they centre the wheel properly while doing the wheel alignment?

[T-onedc2]

I'm not sure

**Waits for answer from JohnL**

[CB7_OWNER]

@ migoreng : Whats the read out on toe and camber???? are they even on both sides?

[migoreng]

didn't get a report at all

[JohnL]

A little know fact is you never ever rotate a tyre as to change its direction from first fitment as when a tyre starts its life
on a car the Radial belts move in the direction of resistance
"" tyres cure on your car in the first 200K's ""...if you then change the direction you then move the Radial belts again disturbing them
and can cause carcus movment also cutting short the life of the tyres this is why the top market tyres only have a single direction
on them in 90% of these it has nothing to do with the tread its simply due to safety and the design of a real radial also prolonging tyre life and performance

Makes sense. Good info I would think.


NOTE: tyre dealers rotate your tyres to wear them out faster mmm means more sales they know the truth just ask them

I suspect rotating tyres can tend to increase wear because as a tye wears it wears in a pattern related to the suspension behaviour at that corner of the car, but when you move it to another corner the suspension isn't the same so there may be a period of accelerated wear as the tyre wears into the characteristic of the 'new' suspension. I'm pretty sure this happens, but it's probably not a big deal unless something is significantly out of alignment.

[JohnL]

my steering wheel was dead straight before lowering my car.

after lowering i got a wheel alignment and steering wheel was slanted a little when going straight.

it's been nearly 3 weeks so the springs have settled and i hoped something would straighten out a little but the steering wheel is still crooked when driving straight >:(
why couldn't they centre the wheel properly while doing the wheel alignment?

It could be a couple of things. When you lowered the car, some geometry may have changed more on one side than the other, most probably camber (if such an unequal change did occur), and this difference in geometry might be generating a slight pull requiring the steering to be turned slightly to make the car track straight(?).

More likely I suspect is that when setting the toe, the operator adjusted it more on one side than the other, thus the steering wheel is off centre. In this case one tie rod needs to be lengthened and the other shortened by an equal amount, just how much dependant on how 'off' the wheel is (a trial and error process).

If the steering wheel points say to the left, then you'll need to lengthen the right side tie rod and shorten the left side tie rod, vice versa if the steering wheel points to the right (of course...).

If the toe was set dead straight with the steering wheel also dead straight, but the wheel is off centre when driving, then it is being caused by something. This could be a tyre issue (wear, pressure, conicity), or by unequal camber or caster, or the thrust angle is off (i.e. rear alignment issue).

[JohnL]

I'm not sure

**Waits for answer from JohnL**
You can start breathing again...

[EuroDude]

This happened to my Civic.. I thought that when you raise the car off its front wheels, the steering teeth dont go back into its original position when the car is lowered down. But that cant be true because you can still steer the front wheels when the car is raised ;)

[thepope1986]

changing the front tyres left to right can sometimes rectify the wheel

[markoJEK1]

good points JohnL

you only ever swap front to rear NEVER side to side
Heres why !!
A little know fact is you never ever rotate a tyre as to change its direction from first fitment as when a tyre starts its life
on a car the Radial belts move in the direction of resistance
"" tyres cure on your car in the first 200K's ""...if you then change the direction you then move the Radial belts again disturbing them
and can cause carcus movment also cutting short the life of the tyres this is why the top market tyres only have a single direction
on them in 90% of these it has nothing to do with the tread its simply due to safety and the design of a real radial also prolonging tyre life and performance

i found out all this info while building tyres for a living and also hurting my wallet cos my 4x4 tyres cost just over $2500.00 a set(4)
and i killed them in only 15,000K's (( killed by ..rippled tread, buldging walls, displaced radials))

NOTE: tyre dealers rotate your tyres to wear them out faster mmm means more sales they know the truth just ask them

wow the most ridiculous statement Ive read about tyre rotation, tyres should be rotated roughly 15,000Km or every year, to reduce feathering / uneven wear, reducing abnormal reaction in wet, pull to a side and so forth, this is for FWD or RWD cars only, vehicles that are AWD / 4x4 , as soon as 1 tyre is unroadworthy all 4 should be replaced, reason is, the second 1 tyre starts to slip it creates more strain on the diff and its components compensating for the traction loss on that wheel and trying to even it out. Hence creating premature wear on drivetrain components, which can void warranty on some vehicles if tyre condition is ignored. I will guarantee you, if you keep your tyres on the same position, their life time will be reduced no doubt. I dont disagree they shouldnt be changed so early, but definatly after 1 year of sitting in the same position, and I doubt they 'trying to make money' by continously upselling rotates and new tyres, Im a mechanic and this is our job, if we dont recommend the best option for the customer, and something happens, it can come back and bite us in the ass, all we are trying to do is make the vehicle as safe as possible.

PS the most effective rotate on non directional tyres is a X pattern, front LEFT to back RIGHT, Front RIGHT to back LEFT, back LEFT to RIGHT front, and back RIGHT to front LEFT. this is because the most wear on a tyre happens on front left, then front right, then back left, and least on back right. So the rotate is putting the BEST tyre on the LEFT front which is the most critical, and the worst at the BACK right, which is least important.

[RtN]

Hmm if you do the X-pattern then wouldn't the rotational direction of the tyres be incorrect?

btw, my car goes straight and the steering wheel is off.. wheel allignment problem? Thanks.

[markoJEK1]

'PS the most effective rotate on non directional tyres is a X pattern' I stated that its most effective on non direction tyres, on directionals , a back to front swap is done.

[RtN]

Oh ok my bad yeh.. missed that!

[CB7_OWNER]

alternatively you could take your wheels to a tyre place.. and get them to swap the lefts > rights or vice versa...

[EuroSteve]

I just rotated my tyres (straight front<->rear, not X) and now the steering wheel is off center. The car still tracks perfectly straight however. I guess an alignment is in order. Is it true you should get your wheels balanced after a rotation, if so, why?

[markoJEK1]

Yes each time a rotation is carried out the wheels should be balanced, more so the 2 that are going to the front, this is to stop any 'wobbling' of the steering wheel. wheels placed at the back dont need a balance neccessarily as you're not steering with them or controling the direction of the car, any slight irregularity can go unnoticed, (this is with good condition tyre / rim combo, you will come across some that will definatly need balancing all round)

PS : An off centre steering wheel does not neccessarily mean your alignment specs are out (toe, camber , caster etc), Purpose of a wheel alignment is to get these specs within their recommended units to achieve best tracking, handling, and tyre wear, and consequently you're steering wheel does get centred through this process. If you have hit big pot holes that is another story, definatly need wheel alignment steering wheel off centre or not

[EuroSteve]

Thanks for the info markoJEK1, all makes sense.

I have with Michelin PP2's on the front and Pirelli P-Zero's on the back (both 225/45ZR17's). These are the tyres that were on the car when I bought it, and PP2's were brand new and I think the P-Zero's had done approx. 2000km. I've now done 10,000km in the car so I figured it was time to rotate the tyres.

When driving (at all speeds) I can't detect any vibration, but as you suggested i'll get an alignment/balance anyway (at the very least, to fix the off center steering wheel)

I've got my 80,000km service due, so i'll get Honda to do an alignment.

[JohnL]

Not quite if your tires are out of balance you will feel the out of balance EITHER on the front or rear. If you didn't have an out of balance (vibration) before the rotation then you don't need to balance them after rotation.

A slightly out of balance wheel may not be felt when fitted to the rear, but may be when fitted to the front. This is because the imbalance can cause the wheel to slightly 'steer' around the steering axis (twice per revolution), which doesn't occur at the rear.