cars shaking on acceleration?

[vinnY]

i've had the problem for a couple months now but i've sorta just ignored it
seeing as it's spring now and not freezing enough to stop me working outside i thought i'd try to track down the problem

so the problem is in a certain rev range in certain gears, the car will just shake upon acceleration
minor vibrate in the steering wheel
door trims shake and rattle
side and rear view mirrors tremble to the point where you can only make out a blur
misc bits of trim and loose change rattles in the car

generally felt between 2200-3200rpm in second and third and sometimes fourth gear. so usually at rather low speeds i.e. 30-70km/h
backoff the throttle and the violent shaking seems to stop momentarily
sometimes happens in fifth gear on the freeway around the 100-120km/h mark
give it some throttle and it shakes, ease off the throttle and it shakes but not so much

bushes seem to be ok(although will be changing soon)
no cv joints are busted
all bolts are tight
suspension is all seated properly and nothing out of the ordinary

i had a theory that it might be a ignition issue i.e. motor is firing funny at the given rpm range and causing excess vibrations that transfer into the chassis(have solid rear and torque engine mounts)

anyone else want to offer suggestions to my problem? would be much appreciated :)

[VTECMACHINE]

Wheels weights could have fallen off, and wheels are no longer balenced. Could explain some of the problems above...

My 2c

[lam.666]

i believe stock rims wouldn't do that, possibility of after-market "lighter" rims results to shaking whilst revving at low range?

[vinnY]

forgot to mention running stock ek4 rims
looks like wheel weights are still attached, might just have to get them rebalanced again

will try this weekend and see how i go

[CB7_OWNER]

engine mounts..

[g_kn]

prolly the Wheel Balancing weights came off one of the wheels , if not check for any signs of a slight dint on one of the Rims/wheels.

[02gzm]

engine mounts..
x2

If it is a vibration and not a miss and it only does it when you have ur foot on the gas, i.e. putting load on the engine, then it's gotta be one of the mounts. It's probably only minor so it'ss only doing it at certain frequencies of vibration, like at the RPM range you said. But you'd wanna get it checked out and fixed asap

[Limbo]

nope light rims do not result in more shaking.

I'd say either rims need balancing or your solid mounts are increasing vibrations


i believe stock rims wouldn't do that, possibility of after-market "lighter" rims results to shaking whilst revving at low range?

[vinnY]

engine mounts look okay
i don't mind the idle vibration but the whole car shaking on acceleration, i'm a bit iffy about

will give balancing the wheels a go and see if that helps being the cheapest/easiest thing to do right now

[Zilli]

i had this problem, found out the rear engine mount had a slight split in it...

[vinnY]

^ damn not what i wanted to hear
swore i would never change another rear engine mount after changing one on an ek :(

did you have a crack in the mount itself or just the guts of the thing?
mines actually filled solid with flexane

[Zilli]

nah mine was a crack in the guts of it... if yours are filled then im not sure whether a crack will quick affect it...

[vinnY]

well been paying closer attention the last couple days
seems to be easily replicated around the 3500-4000rpm mark in either second or third gear

will probably take it for a balance this weekend when i take another set of rims to get some new rubber thrown on

will report back then with hopefully some good news :)

edit; did a bit more reading, dug out this thread (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12866&highlight=vibration) which seems to be my problem too
sorta meshes in with my knocking scare (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89061&highlight=drive+shaft) and suspicion of the cv joint bearings (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96253) failing
anyone got a couple spare b series drive shafts they wanna help me trouble shoot with? :p

[baeshin]

dont think it would be the wheels unbalanced

most likely to be an engine mount

[OMG.JAI xD]

tried checking for water in the sparkies?
water in the sparkies wont cause misfire but an earlier fire. itll start shuddering.
drive normally. the car seems to hesitate. shudder. then feel like vtak kicked in hard at 4grand rpm.
if that described your problem exactly.
check ignition system.
especially with sparkies and leads.
as ive said on another thread.
take sparkies out, clean em. blow air into the leads that connect to the sparkies. and re test.
if its gone. then buddy, you just saved your self a hassle and couple of bucks.

if you get shuddering at idle it cant ever be related to a wheel/suspension part.
its not logical for a steering/suspension part to cause engine vibrations at stationary periods.

have fun =]

[vinnY]

baeshin; probably not, cheap to eliminate though. engine mounts look okay, rear and torque ones are solid, gearbox and passenger top look fine too when i checked yesterday

omg.jai xd; changed between different sparkies(set of copper and platinum) did notice it settled a bit with the platinum ones but did eventually come back which is why i came up with the theory of the ignition issue in the first place then thought that the timing (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97963&highlight=timing) might be a bit out
resistance of the cables seem okay(ngk ones) and i'm getting some new sparkies tomorrow. probably give the spark plug holes a quick shot of brake cleaner and let it rry and see how i go tomorrow.
no shuddering at idle, only while moving between 3-4000rpm in second and third and probably around that rpm range in fourth and fifth(high speeds on the m4)
sorta did notice it the most after hitting the track back in june though.
no sudden vtakkkk yo kick in any range, revving seems smooth through the rev range, just annoying that the entire car shakes during acceleration

strangely enough only the chassis would shake, steering is fine and the car tracks straight
going to crawl under and give the cables and stuff a clean tonight and nip up the suspension bolts.

while on the topic of ignition, recommended that i take off the dizzy cap and have a lookie underneath? quick shot of brake cleaner perhaps?

[OMG.JAI xD]

if its chassis vibrating then its a mount/torque rod issue.
one of the components holding the engine/gearbox in place has to be split.

and as to cleaning dizzy.
electric components. recommend using contact cleaner (contact-OL).
wudnt wanna risk setting back a dizzy.

[vinnY]

yeah i thought as much, the only thing out of the ordinary that i can see at the moment is minute play in the passenger side tie rod and the driver side lower ball joint boot is leaking a bit of grease

well, anything i can visually check for if i take off the dizzy cap? cleaning's out of the question until i hit jaycar tomorrow, just looking for stuff i can do tonight

midnight mechanic ftw

[OMG.JAI xD]

dont think so. honda dizzys are full of gizmos.
youd need light and proper knowledge.
id leave that to last.

since you put it that way. check your "o'clock" points. 12 n 6. 3 n 9 oclock on the wheels. 12 n 6 referring to baljoint movement.
3 n 9 referring to tie rod/steering rack movement.
if theres excessive movement then replace the part that corresponds with the test you did.
but as i said. suspension/steering component wont make the chassis vibrate when you stationary.
it doesnt deaden vibration in anyway. but since you brought that topic up. check it out.
had a car come in at the workshop i work at with a fcukded ball joint. (eurothrash - renault)
cause of one ball joint, control arm, steering rack, suspension, link rods, discs, sway bar, and bumper needed replacing.
btw .. it popped off while the customer was drving. hence why the parts needed replacing.

[vinnY]

think you misunderstood.. my filled engine mounts explain the vibrations at idle which i don't give a crap about.. i was just replying to limbo's comment about the vibrations from solid mounts
it's the shaking while moving which is the problem
hence 3000-4000rpm range in second and third
and 3000-4000rpm range in fourth and fifth on freeways

[bigjo5]

could be ur driveshafts.

[vinnY]

i think its vtec kikin in y0

piss off, don't need your shit in my thread


either way i tried some old platinum sparking in had lying around from when i first got the motor, seemed to dull down the shaking but not completely gone
will clean sparky cables and try new plugs tomorrow and see how i go :)

vtecmachine could very much so be right, i mean i've never had one fall off before but who knows.
i did notice it much more after a trackday so it could be that, so since i'll be at a tyre shop tomorrow it wouldn't hurt to get them balanced for a few bucks

[LiKPiC]

I'm also a noob but...shaking is due to a moving part(s) which is loose. so try to isolate the movings parts and it'll help narrow down which 'part' of the car is causing it.

so, does your car shake when you're stationary in the 3-4000rpm range? or only when moving? (so press accelerator whilst stationary and in neutral). if it shakes, then it's probably some component of the engine...and if it doesnt shake, then look for the other stuff (driveshafts etc).

[LiKPiC]

and if its your tyre/wheels. then revs wouldnt be the predictor of the 'shaking'.
the speed of your wheels would determine how much they shake.

[vinnY]

well in my op i never mentioned anything about idle
i even listed the general speed in which it happens
second-third around 3-4000rpm is about 40-70
3500-4100rpm is about 100-120 in fourth and fifth

no wheel balance today, said they didn't have time? anyway.
got a timing gun today to checkout my timing and new plugs, see if it helps any bit.

[migoreng]

just guessing here.
could it be the ecu?
try giving it a reset...maybe around 3000rpm the ecu/sensors are screwing up and it's making the engine go weird?
lol

[vinnY]

^no dice jase, tried that a long time ago

[pengpeng]

check the bushes on your front LCAs, if it shakes during acceleration, the bushes maybe worn out.

[vinnY]

yeah gonna crawl underneath tomorrow and see if anythings worked itself loose

[pengpeng]

also check your wheel alignment, sometimes wheel alignment problem cause vibration during brake and acceleration, it happened to my Accord Euro before.

makesure you check the bushes carefully because the it's hard to see especially the inner one where it bolts to the subframe.

[vinnY]

yeah i'll be replacing the bushings soon anyway
just gotta get a cylindrical tube the right size to push them out :)

[pengpeng]

a 24mm socket seems to be the right size

[vinnY]

yeah i've been using a 22mm socket for some bushes on the rear lca
24mm socket for the other bushes you say?
now where can i get cheap throw away sockets :p

[pengpeng]

yeah wasn't aware there are different sizes....
you know where to get them! supercheap? $2 shops? but I think better of us good sockets for this, cos cheap ones will probably tear apart.

[vinnY]

yeah the rear lca has different sizes, i got all the other bushes too so i just need to measure it and go socket hunting
don't wanna drop $10 on a socket which i might bust up in the process
will see what i can dig up tomorrow

[vinnY]

just a quick question
what are the effects of a cracked dizzy cover?
just noticed mines cracked in 2 places, where the bolts run

[vinnY]

so i had a poke around tonight
found one one of the bolts holding my intermediate shaft was 3-5mm out so i tightened that down, seems to have lessened the violence of the shaking but somewhat still there

confirm that my passenger side tie rods somewhat stuffed, the movement seems to be coming from where the outer and inner tie rod join instead of the ball joint at the end of the outer tie rod
grabbed the tie rod boot where the inner and outer tie rod join and it gave no movement while just holding the outer tie rod seemed to give movement

and how much play should there be between the passenger drive shaft and the intermediate shaft? i seem to be able to move it left and right about 3-5mm, that acceptable at all?
both drive shafts seem to rotate fine without any strange noises so the whole things still got me stumpted

[vinnY]

bump anyone able to answer my play between the intermediate shaft and driveshaft question?

[unity]

Did you ever sort this problem out?

[vinnY]

nope still there
changed drive shafts
changed half shaft
retorqued engine mounts
4x114.3 stud conversion(so different bearings and knuckles)

still there :(

[unity]

Sorry to hear that. Must be frustrating when you can't get to the root of the problem.

[vinnY]

sure is.. next step is rotors(got some brembo's to replace the rda things on there)
i'll get there sooner or later hehe