[CU2] To all the new Euro Auto owner out there!!!!

[eur001]

Hi all,

I have been talking to a few Euro 09 owners and realised that many of us have to same problem with the "clickling" noise during slow acceleration. All dealers use fuel as the excuse and keep pushing us back by telling us to test is again with a few tank of 98 fuel.
If you have the same problem, please complaint to the dealer and make sure they put it up to Honda Aust so that they can look into this!
At the end of the day, this is our car and we pay some good money for it. We must make sure we satisfy with what we purchase!
Thanks guys!!!

[Type R Positive]

Or just buy a manual... :p

[eur001]

Or just buy a manual... :p

Lucky you! :)

[tony1234]

Or just buy a manual... :p
Haha,smart ass(but true)

[SteveH]

Or just buy a manual... :p

... and wait four months for it to arrive. One month down, three to go ...

[Type R Positive]

... and wait four months for it to arrive. One month down, three to go ... That's why I got in quick. I got the first one brought and delivered in the state baby! :cool:

[SteveH]

That's why I got in quick. I got the first one brought and delivered in the state baby! :cool:

I have to wait for a Navi on special order, so four months it is.

[glengowan]

Or just buy a manual... :p

If brains were dynamite you couldn't blow the wax out your ears

[Type R Positive]

If brains were dynamite you couldn't blow the wax out your ears
If you were any more stupid, you'd have to be watered twice a week. ;)

[LXRY]

Or just buy a manual... :p

..and have creaky clutch issues :p

[Type R Positive]

lols!

Not yet thank god.....

[glengowan]

If you were any more stupid, you'd have to be watered twice a week. ;)

There are a lot of "Educated" and "Knowledgeable' people on this forum,sadly you are not one of them. So please refrain from talking drivel and leave the answers to people who genuinely want to help. :thumbdwn:

[OMG.JAI xD]

farrr chill pill man.
nuthin wrong with havin a bit of a laugh here n there.
"Why so serious" *joker voice. =]

n the original poster isnt asking for help.
hes posing out his opinion. and saying that people with the same problems should take action.
and just cause type r saidd "buy a manual" doesnt mean hes not educated or not knowledgeable.

you dont need to keep forums "spam friendly" it aint your job.
and if it was, you shoudnt accuse and jump to conclusions about ones level of education (or so to say).

relax buddy is all i can say. its comments like that, that turn threads upside down and turn to one big argument and mods close threads cause it gets no where.

relax.

[LXRY]

TICK..TICK..TICK

*Waiting for mod to come with his big spanking stick.....pick me, pick me :)

[glengowan]

farrr chill pill man.
nuthin wrong with havin a bit of a laugh here n there.
"Why so serious" *joker voice. =]

n the original poster isnt asking for help.
hes posing out his opinion. and saying that people with the same problems should take action.
and just cause type r saidd "buy a manual" doesnt mean hes not educated or not knowledgeable.

you dont need to keep forums "spam friendly" it aint your job.
and if it was, you shoudnt accuse and jump to conclusions about ones level of education (or so to say).

relax buddy is all i can say. its comments like that, that turn threads upside down and turn to one big argument and mods close threads cause it gets no where.

relax.

Point taken......my unreserved apology to type r, i got a bit carried away :(

[LXRY]

Point taken......my unreserved apology to type r, i got a bit carried away :(


All good bro.......

[SPQR]

Hi all,
........All dealers use fuel as the excuse and keep pushing us back by telling us to test is again with a few tank of 98 fuel.........

What's with the 98 RON fuel? The CU2 is designed to run on 95 RON fuel. If it can't then Honda has misrepresented the car to people as requiring 95 RON when it (apparently, according fob-them-off dealers) should be running 98 RON. If it really does need 98 RON, then I'm not buying one and I'll just play with my teddy bear at home instead.

[LXRY]

98 for sure......

[Type R Positive]

Point taken......my unreserved apology to type r, i got a bit carried away :(
It's ok brother. No one wanted help here, so let the shit slinging begin! :cool:

[Type R Positive]

What's with the 98 RON fuel? The CU2 is designed to run on 95 RON fuel. If it can't then Honda has misrepresented the car to people as requiring 95 RON when it (apparently, according fob-them-off dealers) should be running 98 RON. If it really does need 98 RON, then I'm not buying one and I'll just play with my teddy bear at home instead.
No need for 98 ron fuel. I can feel a recall coming on.......

[SPQR]

98 for sure......

Honda specifies 95.........

http://euro.honda.com.au/about-the-car_specifications.aspx#powertrain

.........Which means that it should not require 98. If dealers say it does then Honda needs to change the specification so that people can make an informed choice. 95 RON is about $1.65 per litre in Darwin at the moment. 98 RON is over $2.00 per litre!!!

[LXRY]

so even though honda recommend 95ron you still can't run it on 98ron ? Regardless of price.....

If i had to run my cl9 on 95 i would probably sell it.

runs like a champion on 98 ron and like a slug on 95ron

[Type R Positive]

Of course you can run it on 98, but the point is the honda dealer is telling these guys to only use 98. It is not a fuel issue either. Mine runs just fine.

[SPQR]

so even though honda recommend 95ron you still can't run it on 98ron ? Regardless of price.....


95 RON is the minimum requirement for the CL9 and CU2. You can use 98 RON if you wish; but my point was that dealers have no business telling people to use 98 RON. If the car doesn't work perfectly on the Honda specified 95 RON then Honda has misrepresented the capabilities of the car. Such misrepresentations fall foul of the Trade Practices Act.

In case you haven't noticed, one of the positive selling points for the new Accord V6 is that it is designed to run on 91 RON*. This is a positive selling point because it has the potential to save the buyer money at the petrol pumps.

* http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/Honda.com.au/Home/Showroom/Accord/Specifications/

[adrianf]

i've got a manual and i've noticed some clicking as well. usually only happens when i am in low revs and then give it a bit to get going. this is with 98ron as well

[eur001]

i've got a manual and i've noticed some clicking as well. usually only happens when i am in low revs and then give it a bit to get going. this is with 98ron as well

Have you reported this to the dealer and Honda Australia??
If yes, whats the reply from them?? There are few unhappy owner out there waiting for reply from Honda. If you have any success story, please share around.
Please make sure you report this is Honda Australia to protect you investment.
Thanks!

[UNLS1]

we use 98 in all our euro demos.

[eur001]

we use 98 in all our euro demos.

hi there..
I guess you must be from Honda.
Do you have any idea whats going on with the noise? Seems like all the auto have the same problem.
I am pretty sure its not the fuel problem. However, all honda dealer asked to try few more tank of pertrol!! I just feel like i am being push back....

[EuroDude]

Why doesnt the Manual Euro have this problem? They both have the same engine.

Must be an issue with the gearbox

[Type R Positive]

Why doesnt the Manual Euro have this problem? They both have the same engine.

Must be an issue with the gearbox
Yep.

No probs what so ever with mine. 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear pulls and nothing.

[adrianf]

well i've got a manual and i've been using 98ron and i still have a bit of that "clicking".

however it does seems to be getting harder and harder to hear it. i have a feeling by the time i get to my first service it will be undetectable. i'm going to keep monitoriing it.

[Type R Positive]

Have you checked your tyres for stones Adrian?

[Bobjones]

This has nothing to do with tyres with the greatest of respect.

I have this problem and it has been back to Honda now twice, all of which they CAN hear the noise but cannot replicate as well as I can...funny that...

In any event, the information that I have been provided so far is that due to the high compression of the engine, combined with its relatively small clearances from factory (ie built well and thus a "tight engine") and due to the advancement of timing, some "pinging" can be heard. To be audible pinging or "detonation" is bad, end of story, they have told me NOT to baby the car and NOT to flog it as the engine should loosen up and thus the noise should go away. The car only has 1,500 km's on it at the moment, I personally have not had this with a new car before, I HAVE had it on a built engine with an improper tune, that was obviously rectified as soon as it hit the dyno for its run in tune...

We will see how it goes, to be honest, if I do not baby it, its rare to hear it, I think the extra fuel from the old right foot helps, but that said will see how she goes to 5,000km's...the thing that annoys me is that the engine and box are essentially the same units as the previous model, thus why I got the car. Also I did notice the other day running it in S reduces even further the occurrence of the noise...

Oh and Type R your signature to me is offensive, don't mind a joke but that really is disrespectful to our athletes whom I might add are currently 5th in the medal standings and have little to no funding as compared to other countries let along our able bodied athletes...

[Type R Positive]

This has nothing to do with tyres with the greatest of respect.he has manual, not auto. I have manual, no problems what so ever. Hence why I said check your tyres. ;)

(changing my sig...)

[LXRY]

95 RON is the minimum requirement for the CL9 and CU2. You can use 98 RON if you wish; but my point was that dealers have no business telling people to use 98 RON. If the car doesn't work perfectly on the Honda specified 95 RON then Honda has misrepresented the capabilities of the car. Such misrepresentations fall foul of the Trade Practices Act.

In case you haven't noticed, one of the positive selling points for the new Accord V6 is that it is designed to run on 91 RON*. This is a positive selling point because it has the potential to save the buyer money at the petrol pumps.

* http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/Honda.com.au/Home/Showroom/Accord/Specifications/

Point taken ;)


we use 98 in all our euro demos.

You working for a rich dealership ;)


Why doesnt the Manual Euro have this problem? They both have the same engine.

Must be an issue with the gearbox

Could be......


Yep.

No probs what so ever with mine. 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear pulls and nothing.

Buy a lotto ticket ;)

[Type R Positive]

Buy a lotto ticket ;)
Nah, I don't think it is like that at all......

[SPQR]

Why doesnt the Manual Euro have this problem? They both have the same engine.


The CU2 Auto and Manual have some differences in level of tune. The Auto produces slightly less torque and the peak is 100rpm lower than the Manual. (234Nm@4,300 rpm v's 230Nm@4,200 rpm).

http://euro.honda.com.au/about-the-car_specifications.aspx#powertrain



...the thing that annoys me is that the engine and box are essentially the same units as the previous model, thus why I got the car...

The CU2 engine has improvement over the CL9; such as the increased compression ratio from 10.5:1 in the CL9 to 11:1 in the CU2. This is a substantial improvement in efficiency.

The problem might be related to the relatively high compression ratio but if Honda states in its specification that the CU2 need only use 95 RON then people should not have to buy 98 RON.

[jbowly]

Hi all,

I have been talking to a few Euro 09 owners and realised that many of us have to same problem with the "clickling" noise during slow acceleration. All dealers use fuel as the excuse and keep pushing us back by telling us to test is again with a few tank of 98 fuel.
If you have the same problem, please complaint to the dealer and make sure they put it up to Honda Aust so that they can look into this!
At the end of the day, this is our car and we pay some good money for it. We must make sure we satisfy with what we purchase!
Thanks guys!!!
Honda euro Lux with Sat Nav Purchased 18th Sept now 1740 KMs still has pinging. Back to Dealer twice and no change. Running on 98 OCT Dealer added 2 bottles of octane booster no change. This pinging it would appear is not a petrol problem, yet dealer keeps saying just keep driving it. now metallic pinging will cause engine damage if left unchecked .( owners manual Page 334). So why hav'nt Honda Australia taken action to advise they are doing something about it. Shouldnt we all write a letter to honda Australia direct to add pressure to this issue. There is a contact page on the www.honda.com.au web site. If you have this problem then please communicate it to honda direct. Unless you do Honda will continue to fend us off through their dealers without an official response. Go to http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/Honda.com.au/Utilities/Contact+Us/

[Eurotony]

Luxury Nav Auto purchased July 19th now completed 7700km's. Never had a pinging issue & am averaging 8.9litres per 100km as per computer. Only noise issue has been a rattle from the drink holder lid & the sunvisor swinging around & hitting me in the head when going around a corner & I have it over the drivers side window.

Have always used VPower & use Mobil 1 10w-30 fully synthetic from 1200km's. Other than that no issue's at all. Great car.:thumbsup:

[OZEuromania]

Honda euro Lux with Sat Nav Purchased 18th Sept now 1740 KMs still has pinging. Back to Dealer twice and no change. Running on 98 OCT Dealer added 2 bottles of octane booster no change. This pinging it would appear is not a petrol problem, yet dealer keeps saying just keep driving it. now metallic pinging will cause engine damage if left unchecked .( owners manual Page 334). So why hav'nt Honda Australia taken action to advise they are doing something about it. Shouldnt we all write a letter to honda Australia direct to add pressure to this issue. There is a contact page on the www.honda.com.au web site. If you have this problem then please communicate it to honda direct. Unless you do Honda will continue to fend us off through their dealers without an official response. Go to http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/Honda.com.au/Utilities/Contact+Us/

I wrote a msg thru the page, hope i will get some reply soon, and will update it here.

[LXRY]

Honda euro Lux with Sat Nav Purchased 18th Sept now 1740 KMs still has pinging. Back to Dealer twice and no change. Running on 98 OCT Dealer added 2 bottles of octane booster no change. This pinging it would appear is not a petrol problem, yet dealer keeps saying just keep driving it. now metallic pinging will cause engine damage if left unchecked .( owners manual Page 334). So why hav'nt Honda Australia taken action to advise they are doing something about it. Shouldnt we all write a letter to honda Australia direct to add pressure to this issue. There is a contact page on the www.honda.com.au web site. If you have this problem then please communicate it to honda direct. Unless you do Honda will continue to fend us off through their dealers without an official response. Go to http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/Honda.com.au/Utilities/Contact+Us/

Good luck and welcome to Honda ):

[SPQR]

^^^ Hmmm. The new Subaru WRX sedan can be had with leather, sunroof and sat nav now. And 195kw! I remember my old WRX was reliable and rattle free. Ugly interior though.

[jbowly]

New Honda 2009 Euro Ping MARK 1. Announcing the new ping model.
No need to play a CD or listen to the radio you listen to the ping ping ping

Between 30kph and 80 kph as you start to accelerate it has a fantastic rate of pinging. Over 100kph it just pings all the time.In fact its so unique Honda Australia have referred it to Honda Japan as the ping tune is so special.

Just think if you buy the New Honda Euro 2009 model you might get the pinging model to. Yes folks 5000kms traveled already to the wonderful constant pinging tune. It must be a very special model as Honda must think its worth keeping that way as they have'nt bothered to recall the vehicle and havnt been it touch with me for two months

The official line is its covered by warranty and anything that goes wrong Honda will fix it. Er when....well thats another question. Warranty is for 3 years so they can string it out. Nothing in writing of course regarding the problem just telephone call from Heinz the public relations officer.

And so it goes on. Cant tell you how happy I am with the vehicle. Words just dont describe it. But I can tell you my previous Honda Euro (2004 Model) was fantastic. No problems, no worries. really good vehicle. Can I recommend you buy one of those I can highly recommend it

Hold on I have just thought of something. Maybe those crafty buggers at honda have included the pinging option to counter police radar. There you go Ill have to go out tomorrow and try it down the highway and see if i get my picture taken.

If this wasnt so sick in the way Honda are treating us it would be funny so I have tried to make the best of it even though the car cost me $46,000 and Honda is treating us like a mushhroom . Youve bought it and we dont have to hurry to do anything about it.

Hey Guess what. This isnt just a problem with the honda euro its also a problem with the honda TSX in the USA. Now both are the same car just a name change to appeal to the different markets. You can read about their pinging problems too at...http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=684180 It would appear then that this is a world wide problem. The model there was released in early 2008 and they still havent fixed it.
What chance have we got. No wonder Honda here are not saying anything.
Its more serious than we all thought.

[eur001]

New Honda 2009 Euro Ping MARK 1. Announcing the new ping model.
No need to play a CD or listen to the radio you listen to the ping ping ping

Between 30kph and 80 kph as you start to accelerate it has a fantastic rate of pinging. Over 100kph it just pings all the time.In fact its so unique Honda Australia have referred it to Honda Japan as the ping tune is so special.

Just think if you buy the New Honda Euro 2009 model you might get the pinging model to. Yes folks 5000kms traveled already to the wonderful constant pinging tune. It must be a very special model as Honda must think its worth keeping that way as they have'nt bothered to recall the vehicle and havnt been it touch with me for two months

The official line is its covered by warranty and anything that goes wrong Honda will fix it. Er when....well thats another question. Warranty is for 3 years so they can string it out. Nothing in writing of course regarding the problem just telephone call from Heinz the public relations officer.

And so it goes on. Cant tell you how happy I am with the vehicle. Words just dont describe it. But I can tell you my previous Honda Euro (2004 Model) was fantastic. No problems, no worries. really good vehicle. Can I recommend you buy one of those I can highly recommend it

Hold on I have just thought of something. Maybe those crafty buggers at honda have included the pinging option to counter police radar. There you go Ill have to go out tomorrow and try it down the highway and see if i get my picture taken.

If this wasnt so sick in the way Honda are treating us it would be funny so I have tried to make the best of it even though the car cost me $46,000 and Honda is treating us like a mushhroom . Youve bought it and we dont have to hurry to do anything about it.


Well said.. but if they can still sell the car, i dont think they will act quickly!!
Just hope that more potential buyers can read this pinging issue before they sign.

[tony1234]

I reckon it's a timing chain rattle.Either it's too loose from the factory or possibly the tensioner needs adjusting,that's if you can,it's most likely self tensioning.Just my thoughts.PS.I'm glad i own a worry free 06 CL9.

[Type R Positive]

Well said.. but if they can still sell the car, i dont think they will act quickly!!
Just hope that more potential buyers can read this pinging issue before they sign.
I'll be in Perth on the weekend, we must catch up. :)

[buddah51au]

Well said.. but if they can still sell the car, i dont think they will act quickly!!
Just hope that more potential buyers can read this pinging issue before they sign.

What Pinging Issue, no such problem on my CU2 Auto or 2 others that I personally know of

[jbowly]

[QUOTE=SPQR;1891308]Honda specifies 95.........

http://euro.honda.com.au/about-the-car_specifications.aspx#powertrain

.........Which means that it should not require 98. If dealers say it does then Honda needs to change the specification so that people can make an informed choice. 95 RON is about $1.65 per litre in Darwin at the moment. 98 RON is over $2.00 per litre!!!

With a lot of letters to the media about the same engine noise we are experiencing here in Australia finally they have caved in and given us an answer. It is as follows. Software fix is reputedly available mid February

Dear John, we appreciate that you are concerned about the presence of an engine operational sound as it detracts from your overall enjoyment of the vehicle and we wish to again reassure you that this condition will have no impact on performance or engine reliability. We have been working closely with the technical division of Honda Corporation in Japan and following extensive investigations we can confirm that the condition you are experiencing is not that of “pinging” which is known within the industry as “pre-ignition”. The condition that you are experiencing is a combustion sound taking place after the programmed ignition, namely a “post combustion noise”. As this condition takes place after the programmed ignition and with the piston on its downward stroke, there is no detrimental force or impact within the engine in your vehicle. Therefore your engine has not sustained any damage and we are happy to offer you a guarantee on the engine while you are the owner of this vehicle as a way of reassuring you of our confidence that no wear or damage is occurring to the engine or associated components.

We trust this advice from the manufacturer clarifies the matter.

Regards
Joe Gelsi
Customer Relations Manager
Honda Australia Pty Ltd

[jbowly]

With a lot of letters to the media about the same engine noise we are all experiencing finally Honda have caved in and given me an answer. It is as follows... Software fix is reputedly available mid February

Dear John, we appreciate that you are concerned about the presence of an engine operational sound as it detracts from your overall enjoyment of the vehicle and we wish to again reassure you that this condition will have no impact on performance or engine reliability. We have been working closely with the technical division of Honda Corporation in Japan and following extensive investigations we can confirm that the condition you are experiencing is not that of “pinging” which is known within the industry as “pre-ignition”. The condition that you are experiencing is a combustion sound taking place after the programmed ignition, namely a “post combustion noise”. As this condition takes place after the programmed ignition and with the piston on its downward stroke, there is no detrimental force or impact within the engine in your vehicle. Therefore your engine has not sustained any damage and we are happy to offer you a guarantee on the engine while you are the owner of this vehicle as a way of reassuring you of our confidence that no wear or damage is occurring to the engine or associated components.

We trust this advice from the manufacturer clarifies the matter.

Regards
Joe Gelsi
Customer Relations Manager
Honda Australia Pty Ltd

[Type R Positive]

Post combustion noise?
I wonder what it is?

[SPQR]

Post combustion noise?
I wonder what it is?

Honda's answer reminds me of the news report I heard on ABC radio many years ago just after the earthquake in Kobe, Japan. They were reporting on a CNN broadcaster who was interviewing an American citizen who happened to be in Kobe during the earthquake. The interviewer asked him all sorts of questions about his earthquake experience and, even for the last dumb question, the interviewer demonstrated that he wasn't listening to the interviewee. The interviewer asked him if he knew what caused the earthquake and, after an appropriate pause, the American on the spot said "A Howard Stern fart"....

In any case, the bloke from Honda is partly wrong because pinging, the characteristic metallic sound, is the same as knocking which occurs after the spark plug has fired and is caused by a pocket of mixture exploding away from the ignition front whereas, pre-ignition is caused by a hot ignition source in the the cylinder that pre-ignites the mixture before the spark plug gets a chance to do it at the right time. Pre-ignition is not likely to occur in a fuel injected engine.

His advice that the sound is post combustion is correct but it is pinging or knocking but not pre-ignition as he said.

Both conditions can cause damage to an engine.

[lousli]

Or just buy a manual... :p

Interesting, they must change more then the name when they ship the Accord to North America. My wife and I both have 09 6MT TSX/Accord and we both have the same problem as do most 6MT TSX's. Good thing it isn't engine knocking, or so they say.

[Type R Positive]

In any case, the bloke from Honda is partly wrong because pinging, the characteristic metallic sound, is the same as knocking which occurs after the spark plug has fired and is caused by a pocket of mixture exploding away from the ignition front whereas, pre-ignition is caused by a hot ignition source in the the cylinder that pre-ignites the mixture before the spark plug gets a chance to do it at the right time. Pre-ignition is not likely to occur in a fuel injected engine.
Inefficient combustion? Doesn't sound like Honda.....
ECU tune FTW! ;)

[SPQR]

Inefficient combustion? Doesn't sound like Honda.....
ECU tune FTW! ;)

No it doesn't. But I've said it before: I think that the cause is the higher compression ratio of the CU2 engine compared to the CL9 engine. As Honda has said that they are working on a software fix, they'll probably retard the ignition timing (changing the compression ratio is not feasible) and/or adjust the VTEC in the hope of encouraging a more consistent charge mixture.

All measures that could potentially reduce power and torque.

The Honda bloke is wrong to describe pinging as pre-ignition: They are two different conditions as I had previously described. He has correctly described a post combustion event which is pinging/knocking but not pre-ignition. Pre-ignition of the charge by definition happens before the spark ignition. To say that a post combustion event does not lead to damage is not necessarily correct as it could increase pressures in the cylinder.

[Type R Positive]

No it doesn't. But I've said it before: I think that the cause is the higher compression ratio of the CU2 engine compared to the CL9 engine. As Honda has said that they are working on a software fix, they'll probably retard the ignition timing (changing the compression ratio is not feasible) and/or adjust the VTEC in the hope of encouraging a more consistent charge mixture.

All measures that could potentially reduce power and torque.
11:1 cr is sweet F.A. in the scheme of things.
Is it the cause of the problem? I doubt it very much.

[SPQR]

^^^ 11:1 compression ratio is considered a high compression ratio (up from 10.5:1 in CL9). Engines are more likely to ping/knock with a high compression ratio.

Some interesting info at Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_ratio


Some quotes form Wiki:

"A high compression ratio is desirable because it allows an engine to extract more mechanical energy from a given mass of air-fuel mixture due to its higher thermal efficiency. High ratios place the available oxygen and fuel molecules into a reduced space along with the adiabatic heat of compression - causing better mixing and evaporation of the fuel droplets. Thus they allow increased power at the moment of ignition and the extraction of more useful work from that power by expanding the hot gas to a greater degree.

Higher compression ratios will however make gasoline engines subject to engine knocking, also known as detonation and this can reduce an engine's efficiency or even physically damage it."

"Due to pinging (detonation), the CR in a gasoline/petrol powered engine will usually not be much higher than 10:1, although some production automotive engines built for high-performance from 1955-1972 had compression ratios as high as 12.5:1, which could run safely on the high-octane leaded gasoline then available."

[Type R Positive]

the thing is it's not ping.

[SPQR]

^^^ The Honda bloke described it as "post combustion noise". That's what Honda reckons it is. That is exactly what pinging or knocking is.

Some more info at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking

And some quotes from Wiki:

"Knocking (also called knock, detonation or spark knock, pinking in UK English or pinging in US English) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines occurs when combustion of the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder starts off correctly in response to ignition by the spark plug, but one or more pockets of air/fuel mixture explode outside the envelope of the normal combustion front. The fuel-air charge is meant to be ignited by the spark plug only, and at a precise time in the piston's stroke cycle. The peak of the combustion process no longer occurs at the optimum moment for the four-stroke cycle. The shock wave creates the characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and cylinder pressure increases dramatically. Effects of engine knocking range from inconsequential to completely destructive. It should not be confused with pre-ignition (or preignition), as they are two separate events."

And;

"Pre-ignition (or preignition) in a spark-ignition engine is a technically different phenomenon from engine knocking, and describes the event wherein the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder ignites before the spark plug fires. Pre-ignition is initiated by an ignition source other than the spark, such as hot spots in the combustion chamber, a spark plug that runs too hot for the application, or carbonaceous deposits in the combustion chamber heated to incandescence by previous engine combustion events."

[denot]

guys, i'm looking to get one of the CU2 soon... so one thing is still making me confused... is this problem appear on all the CU2 model? or is it for specific model and build date?

thanks heaps

[Type R Positive]

guys, i'm looking to get one of the CU2 soon... so one thing is still making me confused... is this problem appear on all the CU2 model? or is it for specific model and build date?

thanks heapsJust random. Seems 100x more prominent in the Auto's.

[denot]

ah thanks mate... I couldnt afford the auto or the lux anyway, so stick with the CU2 manual for me... Ima start hunting soon...

[Type R Positive]

ah thanks mate... I couldnt afford the auto or the lux anyway, so stick with the CU2 manual for me... Ima start hunting soon...That's what I got. Base manual. No problems / issues / noises / gremlins at all. Fantastic car. :thumbsup:

[denot]

Nice to hear that TypeR! I got convince by a mate here (buddah) that has the base manual and can get below 7L/100kms fuel consumption!!! amazing!! (well its amazing coz its not much diff from his Civic 1.8)

[Type R Positive]

Nice to hear that TypeR! I got convince by a mate here (buddah) that has the base manual and can get below 7L/100kms fuel consumption!!! amazing!! (well its amazing coz its not much diff from his Civic 1.8)Thats one thing that amazes me too! When I got it on cruise control 110km/h, it uses under 7 very easily!!! When I flog mine and it uses stuff all. I don't know how it does it? :confused:

[denot]

Thats one thing that amazes me too! When I got it on cruise control 110km/h, it uses under 7 very easily!!! When I flog mine and it uses stuff all. I don't know how it does it? :confused:

hey Type R... u got cruze ctrl on the base Manual??? how does it work?

[buddah51au]

same as cruise control on your FD2


hey Type R... u got cruze ctrl on the base Manual??? how does it work?

[denot]

oh? I thought Cruz control is only available for the Auto :p

[Type R Positive]

hey Type R... u got cruze ctrl on the base Manual??? how does it work?
press cruise, press set and steer. :p

[SteveH]

I took my Lux manual out on the weekend and with about 80% highway and the aircon on for most of the time the trip computer was showing an average of 7.3 litres per 100 k's. Pretty happy with that. My manual has no weird noises and I could not be happier with the car.

[Type R Positive]

I took my Lux manual out on the weekend and with about 80% highway and the aircon on for most of the time the trip computer was showing an average of 7.3 litres per 100 k's. Pretty happy with that. My manual has no weird noises and I could not be happier with the car.
So you finally got your car Steve?
So glad you're happy mate, I told you good things come to those who wait! :cool:

[SteveH]

Yep, finally got my car. They threw in a tow bar and tints for free for my 'inconvenience'. Love the car, hate the dealer

[buddah51au]

If all trip computers on the CU2 read the same they read 0.4L/100 below true reading - eg, if it reads 7.2, true reading 7.6. My best to date is 784km - 54.59lts = 6.96. Amazing for a CU2 Auto

[Bobjones]

With a lot of letters to the media about the same engine noise we are all experiencing finally Honda have caved in and given me an answer. It is as follows... Software fix is reputedly available mid February

Dear John, we appreciate that you are concerned about the presence of an engine operational sound as it detracts from your overall enjoyment of the vehicle and we wish to again reassure you that this condition will have no impact on performance or engine reliability. We have been working closely with the technical division of Honda Corporation in Japan and following extensive investigations we can confirm that the condition you are experiencing is not that of “pinging” which is known within the industry as “pre-ignition”. The condition that you are experiencing is a combustion sound taking place after the programmed ignition, namely a “post combustion noise”. As this condition takes place after the programmed ignition and with the piston on its downward stroke, there is no detrimental force or impact within the engine in your vehicle. Therefore your engine has not sustained any damage and we are happy to offer you a guarantee on the engine while you are the owner of this vehicle as a way of reassuring you of our confidence that no wear or damage is occurring to the engine or associated components.

We trust this advice from the manufacturer clarifies the matter.

Regards
Joe Gelsi
Customer Relations Manager
Honda Australia Pty Ltd


Hmmm I would like to see what this fix really is. Just glad they have "identified it" though I have large doubts that "post ignition" does not cause any damage. So what they are trying to say is that the ECU tune is FUBAR, we will adjust it to use more fuel, retard timing or a combination of both??

The higher CR may have an effect, and 0.5 CR is a large variable, but can easily be adjusted with a head gasket, alot turbo engines get thicker/sandwich head gaskets to lower CR to run more boost, at the detriment of lower down torque at times though, but the benefit is less chance of detonation due to AFR's being too low, especially if running higher octane fuel...

I am not holding by breath for end of Feb, more like end of March if the Honda dealer is anything to go by???

[Type R Positive]

If all trip computers on the CU2 read the same they read 0.4L/100 below true reading - eg, if it reads 7.2, true reading 7.6. My best to date is 784km - 54.59lts = 6.96. Amazing for a CU2 Auto
Yeah, still blows me away how fuel efficient this car is.

[Type R Positive]

Hmmm I would like to see what this fix really is. Just glad they have "identified it" though I have large doubts that "post ignition" does not cause any damage. So what they are trying to say is that the ECU tune is FUBAR, we will adjust it to use more fuel, retard timing or a combination of both??
I think it is the fuel mixtures.

Weren't you the one that had the ignition retarded? Apparently that didn't work.

[VIDSEURO]

I took my Lux manual out on the weekend and with about 80% highway and the aircon on for most of the time the trip computer was showing an average of 7.3 litres per 100 k's. Pretty happy with that. My manual has no weird noises and I could not be happier with the car.

Hey SteveH
Could you tell em what build date is your Euro.
Mine is 1-May-2008.
Im just curious due to the fact that certain May build cars have had this NOISE that everyone is talking about.
Mine has it as well.
Apart from that the car is awesome.
Love taking it over 4000RPM blows me away...
It has 3,200 kms

[SteveH]

Hey SteveH
Could you tell em what build date is your Euro.
Mine is 1-May-2008.
Im just curious due to the fact that certain May build cars have had this NOISE that everyone is talking about.
Mine has it as well.
Apart from that the car is awesome.
Love taking it over 4000RPM blows me away...
It has 3,200 kms

Build date on mine is November 2008. I have only just clocked up 1,000 k's, so it is probably still too early to tell if the noise will appear

[VIDSEURO]

Build date on mine is November 2008. I have only just clocked up 1,000 k's, so it is probably still too early to tell if the noise will appear

Thanks SteveH

This is quite interesting as most other Euro's who have a different build date
apart from May 2008 do not have the acceleration rattle or pinging noise as we all call it.
This is my forst Honda car and im dissapointed since the rest of the car i sreally first class, it gets plenty of stares from onlookers.
It has that x factor the others dont have.
Anyhow im hopeful Honda Australia helps all the other owners who have lodged a complaint.

If they dont its going to end up crap creek.
The car of the year will then become the rattle of the century

Mate when i purchased the Euro the dealer threw in the non standard
gear shift from the accesories list, it really compliements the interior quite nicely. Do you have any hassle with the standars gear shift?

[Type R Positive]

Mines a May '08 with 14,669kms.
Not that it's a bad thing, but I can't replicate the dreaded 'noise' no matter what I do.
Lug it, rev it, nothing.

[Type R Positive]

apart from May 2008 do not have the acceleration rattle or pinging noise as we all call it.How do you know? :confused:

[VIDSEURO]

How do you know? :confused:

Your'e talking to yourself man.

Hey that's ok man its only cool if you make sense.
On this occasion i guess you do, i think..
Im outta here....

[Type R Positive]

Your'e talking to yourself man.

Hey that's ok man its only cool if you make sense.
On this occasion i guess you do, i think..
Im outta here....Quoted your post dude...
So you are trying to say that if you don't have a May '08 you wont have rattle?

What I want to know is how do you know?

[snajper]

I had 06 Euro 6SP manual (best car I'll ever own) and was always getting 6.2L/100km on
Sydney to Canberra trip.

I now own 08 non euro accord that also pings like euro. Took it to the dealer and was told that they are waiting for solution from Honda Japan to try and resolve the issue. Non Euro is supposed to run 91RON but it still pings when using 98RON. GrRRRRR

[denot]

I had 06 Euro 6SP manual (best car I'll ever own) and was always getting 6.2L/100km on
Sydney to Canberra trip.

I now own 08 non euro accord that also pings like euro. Took it to the dealer and was told that they are waiting for solution from Honda Japan to try and resolve the issue. Non Euro is supposed to run 91RON but it still pings when using 98RON. GrRRRRR

WOW! a non euro accord got this problem as well?? What is this??? the new K24Z is a fail????

[buddah51au]

WOW! a non euro accord got this problem as well?? What is this??? the new K24Z is a fail????

I would not be worried about this problem, only a small number of vehicles are effected. The Cylinder Head on the new K24Z engine is a new design and it appears there are some problems, but not all cars are effected.
I stand by my belief that this is a timing chain / tensioner problem and not pinging. I had full knowledge of this apparent problem prior to getting my CU2 & there is no such problem on my car, or 2 others o personally know of.

Honda Japan will no doubt find this problem and rectify it, that is why we have warranty on cars. people need to be patient.

[timetorelax]

Hey SteveH
Could you tell em what build date is your Euro.
Mine is 1-May-2008.
Im just curious due to the fact that certain May build cars have had this NOISE that everyone is talking about.
Mine has it as well.
Apart from that the car is awesome.
Love taking it over 4000RPM blows me away...
It has 3,200 kms

Just for a "reference" my CU2 lux navi auto is build date 08/08, done 2300km in its first month and can't hear any "pinging" noise. I remember when I had my P's my first car was a 1984 manual Holden Camira :o now that pinged like crazy! Oh BTW that was Wheels COTY in 1984.....

[Euro_CU2]

I dont seem to recall the clicking noise, but maybe i will keep that in mind and see if there is any noise.

[jbowly]

I would not be worried about this problem, only a small number of vehicles are effected. The Cylinder Head on the new K24Z engine is a new design and it appears there are some problems, but not all cars are effected.
I stand by my belief that this is a timing chain / tensioner problem and not pinging. I had full knowledge of this apparent problem prior to getting my CU2 & there is no such problem on my car, or 2 others o personally know of.

Honda Japan will no doubt find this problem and rectify it, that is why we have warranty on cars. people need to be patient.

Gee whizz ive only had myEuro 2008 for 6 pinging months and 10,000 kilometers how patient do you think someone should be that spends $45,000 on a motor car and lives with such an annoying engine noise every day and gets treated like a leper by Honda. How long do you expect owners should wait..till the warranty runs out. Get real

[buddah51au]

Gee whizz ive only had myEuro 2008 for 6 pinging months and 10,000 kilometers how patient do you think someone should be that spends $45,000 on a motor car and lives with such an annoying engine noise every day and gets treated like a leper by Honda. How long do you expect owners should wait..till the warranty runs out. Get real

Honda Australia's hands are tied, They can do nothing without approval from Head Office in Japan who WILL come up with a rectification.

While it is no doubt an annoying problem for you & others that have this problem it is something that unfortunately you will have to live with until a remedy is found. Once the problem has been noted bye your dealer within the warranty period your car is covered for that problem indefinitely.

[jbowly]

Honda Australia's hands are tied, They can do nothing without approval from Head Office in Japan who WILL come up with a rectification.

While it is no doubt an annoying problem for you & others that have this problem it is something that unfortunately you will have to live with until a remedy is found. Once the problem has been noted bye your dealer within the warranty period your car is covered for that problem indefinitely.

Ah yes you work for Honda and you have no idea what it is like to spend hard earned money only to be told in the honda scheme of things we are not that important and we should wait and do as we are told.

[buddah51au]

Ah yes you work for Honda and you have no idea what it is like to spend hard earned money only to be told in the honda scheme of things we are not that important and we should wait and do as we are told.

LMFAO, sorry to inform you I work for know one, but after a lifetime in the Motor Industry I think I know a little about how things operate, unlike you. Oh, by the way, I spent my money on a Honda as well & I am sure Mr Rudd pays me a lot less than those who work.

[Bobjones]

Well car in for the 10K service today, no rectification in sight, I will just be glad if they replace the rear door garnishes after its second visit to have that done and the rear parcel shelf rattle after its third visit to have that rectified...

The engine now sounds more like a rattle and not pinging everyday, in fact it is more and more evident and prevalent, but oh well it blows up it blows up...just will never buy another Honda product ever, and that is what our entire office will now do, we have already strated by getting rid of the MDX and replacing it with a Q7, civic replaced with a new corolla and so on...

[timetorelax]

[QUOTE=Bobjones;just will never buy another Honda product ever[/QUOTE]

Sorry to hear your bad luck bobjones.

I know how you feel when buying a new car and it turns into a lemon. About 4 years ago I bought a new Hyundai Sonata V6 elite (:o I know I know) thinking yeah warranty is good, quailty seems good, great price for a 3.3L V6 and huge car so I bit the bullet. NEVER AGAIN will I buy a Hyundai. After numerous electrical, interior and engine problems (incl. piston slap!) I traded the car within 9 months and cut my loses and went back to Mazda.

Now I bought my CU2 3 months ago (which is my first Honda) and it has been fantastic. Its strange how car manufacturers build 1000's of cars a month and 1 or 2 are unlucky that not 1 but numerous faults occur.

[LNG292008]

What should we do? mail them letters all over the world 09 Euro Owners are experiencing the same problems this annoying and scary pinging sound

my euro has been in for its first service they knew about it and played along as if my car was the first case,they told me to use 98 premium unleaded blah blah blah the problem will go away. as Ive read from other various sites it its not a fuel problem, this is so F**KED i payed over 45,000$ for this car

the dealers and Honda assure us that its not a mechanical problem that's just a load of bull crap the manual states that if the pinging keeps going untreated it will stuff up the car.

OTHER PROBLEMS i had with this 09 euro apart from the engine problem is that the right hand side speaker is a dud it dose not work, sure they fix it but it wasted my time i had to make arrangements etc to drop my car off.

My front bumper after a the first week was loose( it was probably loose when i picked it up from the dealer but it was not noticeable on suburban roads and speeds but on the freeway it rattled like crazy) still all these issues shouldn't have been prevented long before they got to the hands of the dealer and the owners

and another thing is this car is not very big in fact i dare say that my jazz is larger* in way but that's something i can live with but the "pinging" its faint but driving me insane!

Im deverstated that i award high credits to Honda when they called me for the customer service survey, if i knew they were keeping me in the dark the whole time and how crap this car really is.... Arrrhhh!!!!! i should have brought the FN2 , 2000>05 Ep3 or Dc5Rs instead of this euro, how can they expect to compete with BMW/etc if they're struggling to compete with local rivals such as Mazda, Toyota and maybe even KIA

What should we do to stop this shit? and stop happening to other people and most importantly stopping them getting away with our money!

[LNG292008]

Hi according to Honda they were suppose to fix the solution buy the end of July 2009, that's what they told me today at Peter Warren Honda that it could take up to 12 months for them to find a solution.

Ive been driving Honda's all my life but after this i really have to think and research hard the next time i buy a car

[LNG292008]

i agree with you how do we make our complaints and feedback count i don't want to complain to the dealer and have my feedback ignored

i.e whats the best method if getting the message across to them please post on this fourm

[denot]

The fix is already out... Check the other thread (new one) no need to reopen this old thread. Cheers

[buddah51au]

[B]



and another thing is this car is not very big in fact i dare say that my jazz is larger* in way but that's something i can live



Your Jazz is larger than a CU2, well considering an FG Falcon is 6" longer & 2 1/2 inches wider than a CU2, I guess your saying a jazz should be competing against falcons & comodores for size. I must look into that further.