P Platers & Integra Type R

[johnnykos]

Hi Guys,

An article I was reading by the RACV states the following: "The Type R's high power-to-weight ratio places it on Vicroads' list of cars which can not be driven while on P-plates. Getting insurance on the car for drivers under 25 years old could also be difficult."

Article URL --> http://motoring.racv.com.au/racvm/whichcar/CarreportArticle.cfm?ID=88763A7F-A3E2-11D4-B8010000E8961DD1

I have seen many P Platers driving DC2 and DC5 Integra Type R's and was wondering if they have encountered any problems with police, insurance, or VICRoads (for Melbournians).

If you have been pulled over by police etc, have they made a point about driving such a performance car while on your P's, and have they tried to take the matter further?

As someone who has a year left with my P-Plates and is currently looking to buy a DC2 Type R, I am asking for information and experences from the Honda community so as to avoid any potential problems in the future.
(Responses from people familiar with the laws/regulation in Melbourne will be even more helpful)

Thanks in advance to everyone!

[Type R Positive]

I'm 24 and used to be from QLD. I couldn't even find insurance for DC5 type R. No one would insure me. I earn good coin, have a squeeky clean driving record and have had my open licence since I was 16 years old. (northern territory :))

I could only find insurance for a DC2 type R and it would have been cheaper to insure a BMW. $1400 for DC2 ITR and $1200 for '98 BMW 328is.

[faijai]

aww vic seems to be very tough on P platers and stuff but much easier on regOing imported cars?! wtf

[tommytendulkar]

I was on my p's (in Vic) when i was looking for a DC2r (about a yr ago), and had no hindrances in getting quotes for insurance... and not one insurance company said they wouldn’t insure me. I was rating 4 (i think u start at rating 6) at the time and RACV quoted me over 4k, AAMI wouldn’t insure me because they direct ppl under 25 to JustCar (which is a subsidiary of AAMI) and JustCar quoted me just over 3k. For a vti-r it was 2.4k and for a gsi it was 1.6k.... its just a fact that young males are more likely to have an accident that anyone else on the road...(ive had 2).

[johnnykos]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I shouldn't think that there would be a problem with getting insurance as they woouldn't turn durn 2-4 thousand a year from a young driver.

My question is more directed towards whether or not it is legal to drive the Type R while on my P's seeing as though the article states that VicRoads has classified it as too powerful.

It would be a shame to buy a Type R and then have to sell it becuase I would be breaking the law by driving it.

What do you guys think ?

[civic_mods]

no problems at all if ur type-R is stock~~~

much more problem for a P-plae to drive a stock rex

[[XsCaPe]]

My question is more directed towards whether or not it is legal to drive the Type R while on my P's seeing as though the article states that VicRoads has classified it as too powerful.

It would be a shame to buy a Type R and then have to sell it becuase I would be breaking the law by driving it.



Just buy it dude.

when do you get off your P's?..

the fine for driving an overpowered vehicle is quite minimal, its about $105 and no demerrit points.. its the same as driving a manual on an auto licence, not wearing your glasses, etc etc.. i.e breaking a condition of your licence

you are unlikely to get done for it anyway.. and im sure the thrill of owning a type R is worth it, dont u think?

[Z]

Applying to VicRoads for an exemption
VicRoads may exempt a person from a High Powered Motor Vehicle Restriction on the grounds of 'hardship' provided road safety concerns are taken into consideration. A high powered vehicle exemption can be granted at any time during the probationary period.

If an exemption is issued it will be made conditional for a specified vehicle and may include special conditions such as times and how it is used. This information is included on a Certificate of Exemption (Form F223) which is issued and must be carried by the driver at all times when driving the nominated vehicle.

The following guidelines apply:

The person was the registered owner of a high powered vehicle prior to 1 August 1990. Proof of purchase or ownership must be produced.

The person is the holder of an interstate or overseas licence issued after 1 August 1990 and claims to have driven and owned a high powered vehicle. Proof of ownership required.

The vehicle for which the exemption is sought is the only vehicle owned by the family. This will be confirmed by VicRoads checking its vehicle records.

The vehicle for which the exemption is sought is an employer's vehicle and allowed to be used for social as well as business use and no non high powered vehicle is owned by the family. This will be confirmed by VicRoads checking its vehicle records.


Say your parents bought it

[My-B18c]

ive seen heaps of p plater with car probly ther parent bought the car 4 them
car that ive seen with pz...[p] on a RX8(CHICK)
[p] on a r32 GTR (10second car) frewn
[p] on a GTI-R done up hard
[p] on a TWIN TURBO SUPRA
[p] on a s2k
etc. these people are rich!! n ther only like 17-18 thanks 2 their parents lucky (BA*TARD)

[johnnykos]

']Just buy it dude.

when do you get off your P's?..

the fine for driving an overpowered vehicle is quite minimal, its about $105 and no demerrit points.. its the same as driving a manual on an auto licence, not wearing your glasses, etc etc.. i.e breaking a condition of your licence

you are unlikely to get done for it anyway.. and im sure the thrill of owning a type R is worth it, dont u think?

I have just over a year left to get off my P's.

Just to clarify - are you saying that the $105 fine is a one off or will you get a $105 every time you are pulled over for driving a Type R?

And yes - the thrill of driving a Type R is worth it although you would prefer not having to worry about fines etc.

[Type R Positive]

ive seen heaps of p plater with car probly ther parent bought the car 4 them
car that ive seen with pz...[p] on a RX8(CHICK)
[p] on a r32 GTR (10second car) frewn
[p] on a GTI-R done up hard
[p] on a TWIN TURBO SUPRA
[p] on a s2k
etc. these people are rich!! n ther only like 17-18 thanks 2 their parents lucky (BA*TARD)
I would say insured under their parents, and listed as secondary drivers for sure. Utherwise, no insurance. Maybe S2K because not turbo import.

[coladuna]

AAMI wouldn’t insure me because they direct ppl under 25 to JustCar (which is a subsidiary of AAMI)

You are wrong there. I'm only 23 and I'm insured with AAMI.
JustCar is a subsidiary of AAMI, but they mainly deal with imports.

[Terry]

Yeah few years ago i know one of my friend's friend (21 yrs old) first car is a EVO 5 (import).....donno he still alive or not.. :D

[kenji]

Just try http://www.justcarinsurance.com.au/ normally is a good choice for people under 25yrs Old From what i heard

[CJL]

Well funny enough I drive a DC5R I got done for power to weight I was 1.7kw over on my P's....

The thing that interests me is the fact that you can get insurance on a car your not meant to drive on ur probationary license. They can easily avoid your claim at any time, and yeah for those that think they can take them to court wake up please cause insurance companies will just keep dragging it out until you run out of money.

Don’t think yeah that wont happen to me cause I’m invincible…….Personal Quote: “A wise man learns from his own mistakes a bloody fool doesn’t learn from others”

[johnnykos]

Well funny enough I drive a DC5R I got done for power to weight I was 1.7kw over on my P's....

The thing that interests me is the fact that you can get insurance on a car your not meant to drive on ur probationary license. They can easily avoid your claim at any time, and yeah for those that think they can take them to court wake up please cause insurance companies will just keep dragging it out until you run out of money.

Don’t think yeah that wont happen to me cause I’m invincible…….Personal Quote: “A wise man learns from his own mistakes a bloody fool doesn’t learn from others”

CJL,

When you say you "got done" do you mean you got a fine? Did anything else happen? And are were you still driving your Type R on your P's after that incident?

Lastly, with the insurance - do you mean they can avoid your claim if you have an accident because your driving a high powered car while still on your P's EVEN THOUGH they insured you?

Thanks.

[CJL]

I got a small fine of $107. Basically I can't drive it for another 2 months untill im 21. I haven't driven it since.

Well yeah basically yeah they can avoid your claim cause its illegal for you to be driving it anyway, but the chances of that happening are small. The type r has only been on the banned list for P platers since mid this year. I got my car before it was added but still got my fine.

[silvia200sx]

Well I Thought Insurance Companies Don't Let Secondary Drivers At All Under 25?, I Mean I Couldnt Do That When I Had My S14, But Yeh The Type R Can Be Insured When Ur On Ur P's, It Will Just Be Quite Expensive But Not As Much As Turbo Cars Tho, Yeh I've Seen P Platers Driving M3, Evo Etc, Its Nothing New Bcoz Their Parents Buy It For Them!

[CJL]

Hmmm interesting just because your cars a turbo doesn’t necessarily mean shit other things that effect expensive insurance polices are:
-The year the car was produced
-Make
-Rarity
-Previous record
-Where the car is from
-Where you live (places in civilisation cost more and the theft rate of that spacific vehicle)
Eg. I got a quote for a new xr6 turbo and that was less than my teg quote

[johnnykos]

Looking at the restricted cars list by VicRoads, the DC5 Type R is on the list but the DC2R isn't. (This may be b/c its an old model)

Has anybody asked VicRoads about whether or not driving a DC2R is legal while on your P's ?

It would be hard getting an exemption as my family has a non high powered car (that excse can only be used if for example the Type R was the only can owned by the family).

Link --> http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrne/vrninte.nsf/3fc0ae634a52fcf44a256b03000e479b/78dab724c167d014ca256efb007de6c1/$FILE/updated weblist restricted vehicles November 2003.pdf

[vtml]

As long as the car is not on the list, you are fine. In regards to P platers driving DC5R (and other overpowered vehicle for that matter), if someone does happen to you, and has to go to court, you could have an extra charge/fine lay against you. Of course insurance also has every single right to not pay you any compensation because you are driving the vehicle "illegally".

[IRI]

I came off my P's last week, had my type r for nearly a year now and never had any problems, and before that I had a TT ZX for a year and a half without any problems from the Po Po. Depends if they catch you driving like a dick or not, coz if they do, they'll fu(k u hard.

[Type R Positive]

I'D hate to be a P plater in Vic! Does any one know if any other states are the same in restricting P Platers? I haven't heard of this anywhere else.

[tommytendulkar]

I'D hate to be a P plater in Vic! Does any one know if any other states are the same in restricting P Platers? I haven't heard of this anywhere else.

well its all done for safety..... thats why Vic has the safest roads in the country (that is considering population).....

....i remember a few yrs ago p platers driving rex's weres wrapping themselves around poles weekly.... some of teh crash scenes were horrific..... put a high powered car in inexperienced hands and u got trouble....

[~*b*~]

I know that Queensland doesnt have laws like that, you only have to look at the owners of some of the more sportier vehicles to realise it too!! Its pretty sad to see such young people engaging in 'spirited driving' and ending up wrapping their car or themselves around a pole. :( Its certainly not the first time its happened to someone close to me. :thumbdwn: I guess we just need to realise that any car can go fast tho!

For those states that do have those kind of laws in place see it as a life saver... Im sure you dont want to end up 6feet under at 18.

[bumography]

why not add a few subs to the car to lower the power-to-weight ratio =D

[CJL]

Of course insurance also has every single right to not pay you any compensation because you are driving the vehicle "illegally".

Interesting.... The problem is why are they insuring p platers that have cars on the restricted list.

It would make things a whole lot easier if they just didn’t insure P platers with high powered cars. Unless they are for race use only which would count out most of the big insurance company’s anyway.

But I suppose then again those people that took notice of the piece of paper you sign actually says "It's up to you to keep up to date with new laws"

[johnnykos]

I came off my P's last week, had my type r for nearly a year now and never had any problems, and before that I had a TT ZX for a year and a half without any problems from the Po Po. Depends if they catch you driving like a dick or not, coz if they do, they'll fu(k u hard.
Spoke to VicRoads today, they were pretty unhelpful just saying that they have the formula and that its my responsibility to work it out.

They also said to speak to the local police station about what the fine would be like if caught driving it etc.

VICROADS ---> A high powered motor vehicle is defined as a motor vehicle (not a motor cycle or motor trike) which:
has a power to mass ratio which exceeds 125 kilowatts per tonne; or
has an engine capacity which exceeds 3.5 litres per tonne of the unladen mass of the motor vehicle.

Don't have the exact calculation but the DC2R is 141 kw with a weight of 1087kg, therefore it seems to be in the restricted list.

It sure is making me think twice about buying the Type R now.

CORRECTION ---> Just found out on the RACV web site that the DC2R is 130kw/per tonne (damn 5kw over)
http://racv.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/RT/A585F3B13F5E625CCA2569EA007E4FD8_Mechanical?OpenDo cument

"IRI" -- have you been pulled over by the police and you didn't have any problems or did you somehow manage to elude them for all that time?

[johnnykos]

Also, the lady at VicRoads said that its very unlikely that they will give out an exemption to drive a high powered car, saying that if it was for business use they would require a letter from the employer saying why I would have to drive a high powered car etc.

[Type R Positive]

well its all done for safety..... thats why Vic has the safest roads in the country (that is considering population).....

....i remember a few yrs ago p platers driving rex's weres wrapping themselves around poles weekly.... some of teh crash scenes were horrific..... put a high powered car in inexperienced hands and u got trouble....
All done for safety you say.... That's what they say about all those faulty speed cameras you guy's have there. I fully agree that it helps, but in the end, if I want to be a dickhead in a datto or a type r, it wouldn't matter cause I would kill just as many people. Vic roads have shocking record for deaths.

If the gov was serious, they would make driver training compulsory at a high school level or something. Supervision could be the answer. Not practicable, but it would have a major effect. Same as restricting night time driving. It is way too easy to get licenced.

[IRI]

""IRI" -- have you been pulled over by the police and you didn't have any problems or did you somehow manage to elude them for all that time?"

Never in my 3 and a bit years of driving have i ever been 'pulled over' by a cop. Only time I've spoken to the police while in my car is at a boose bus taking a breathe test. Then again I'm not black or asian, so i dont get picked on by the police ;)

[EuroAccord13]

Smoking the tyres off the line our test car accelerated from zero to 100 km/h in just 7.8 seconds and covered 400 metres on the Calder Park test track in 15.7 seconds.

Do they know how to drive this car????

[bird]

most import car would eat a type R, do they not realise that. I couldnt get insurance for my fourby cause it was turbo. wtf.

[BF]

Silly rule IMO

[੮®ப]

Silly rule IMO


getting fined for driving a type r if ur a p plater... thats the strangest thing that i have eva heard... melbourne is full of wierd things... its like they are another county.. hehe...but still pretty cool there

[Type R Positive]

getting fined for driving a type r if ur a p plater... thats the strangest thing that i have eva heard... melbourne is full of wierd things... its like they are another county.. hehe...but still pretty cool there :thumbsup::D:D:D

[johnnykos]

Damn im pissed!

After the drag race on Dandenong Road in Melb last week, the authorities are wanting to crack down even more on P platers driving high performance cars.
They are saying that more police will get access to these lists so that they can check against the list if they pull over a P-Plater in what they assume to be a powerful car.

As stated previously, the DC2R has a power to weigth per tonne of 130kw (CAN ANYONE VERIFY THIS ?????) therefore making it 5kw over the 125kw per tonne limit enforced by VicRoads on P Platers.

Therefore, the DC2R is ILLEGAL to drive while on P's in Victoria which sucks big time. As I will be on my P's for another year and a bit I think it would be a very dangerous risk to buy a Type R and having to constantly be on the lookout or woried about being pulled over.

What frustrates me even more is that I finally found a Type R is excellent condition that I would purchase ASAP if it wasn't for this law.

After speaking to an insurance broker, I was told that the word is that the govt is trying to pass some legislation to ban the powerful cars for P platers and he was also mentioning something about insurance. He advised me to stick well away from the Type R UNLESS I GET A SIGNED PAPER FROM VICROADS STATING THAT IT IS LEGAL TO DRIVE. I was told that if I'm not allowed to drive it while on P's then I wouldn't get cover for it if I have an accident.

What do you guys think??

I will call VicRoads tomorrow to try and definitely find out if it is a RESTRICTED vehicle while on P's and if there are any possible exemption.

Does anybody out their know of a P Plater who is driving a high powered vehicle but has gotten an exemption to drive it??

If it turns out to be illegal to drive it I am thinking of buying something for 5-7 thousand and keeping it for a year before buying a DC2R.

All replies greatly appreciated.

[fongyfong]

ive seen heaps of p plater with car probly ther parent bought the car 4 them
car that ive seen with pz...[p] on a RX8(CHICK)
[p] on a r32 GTR (10second car) frewn
[p] on a GTI-R done up hard
[p] on a TWIN TURBO SUPRA
[p] on a s2k
etc. these people are rich!! n ther only like 17-18 thanks 2 their parents lucky (BA*TARD)

its either that, or they have a side job if ya know what i mean

[tommytendulkar]

hey johnnykos .... i felt the same way about the power to weight ratio laws for p' platers when i was on my p's.... but when u see stuff like that crash taht u referred to on dandenong rd, u realise why its in place..... i think it was a r33 gts-t that smashed after a drag with a prelude.... 2 kids just out of school last yr from st bernards dead... whats why theyve got the rule... i know if i was drving a type r and i was 18 i would be hooning it.....

[toE]

johnnykos - u best to ring up vicroads and find out exactly, if the DC2R is allowed to be driven by a P-plater. If they give you the green light, make sure to take the person's name you spoke to, or any necessary information (in black and white, if possible) and keep it with you when/if you do get the R. :)

Good luck.

[linkorr]

toe - i highly doubt anybody is gonna give you anything in black and white. They keep hiding behind the 'procedures' and shit. People (this applies to gov employees too) tell you one thing over the phone even though they are not entirely sure about it. And if you ask them to back it up, they'll just find some excuse to say they are not inclined to do so.

johnnykos - g luck with the ITR. Keep your fingers crossed. But if the police are coming down hard on Ps then, even a big exhaust could get u pulled over.

[RAYTDR]

I have checked the list and Integra's are on the list but they do not specify which version. So it could mean all Integra's Gsi, VtiR and TypeR.

Also it stated - "Please note that this list is not exhaustive. If in doubt please contact VicRoads on telephone: 131171"

[johnnykos]

I write this post with alot of sadness and anger.........

Spoke to VicRoads yesterday - they said that even if a ca wasn't on the list it's the drivers responsibility to make sure they are allowed to drive it. They suggested getting a mechanic to check the power to weight but if they late did their own check and found it is over the power to weight ratio then I would be liable. They were also unwilling to sign a letter that it was legal to drive the car etc.

Then called JustCars to see if they had a list of cars that couldn't be driven. Funnilly enough they said that they are happy to ensure you and take your money (2000+ for a Type R) BUT if you have an accident then their claims department will have a look if you are allowed to drive the car and IF YOU ARE NOT --> Quote "it MAY impact your chances of getting a claim".

Lastly I spole to the TMU who said that no matter the excuse if they pull someone over suspecting the car is powerful, they will check the power to weight and issue a ticket. They said they may also send the driver to court straight away "if the driver is a smart arse".

I then got off the phone and calculated the power to weight ratio which is the KW divided the weight multiplied by 1000.

DC2 Integra Type R --> 141kw / 1087kg x 1000 = 129.7 kw per tonne
DC5 Integra Type R --> 147kw / 1160kg x 1000 = 126.7 kw per tonne

Therefore, by these calculations, both the DC2 & DC5 Type R's are ILLEGAL to drive while on your P's in Victoria. (You can only drive a car with less than 125kw per tonne).

As I have over a year left on my P's I have decided that it is too much of risk firstly being caught by the cops - being fined and not being allowed to drive it - and secondly having an accident and then being told too bad by the insurance company.

I have been plannign on getting a Type R for 3 years now although taking all these matters into consideration I think I will have to look for something else.

It sucks but thats the law.........especially now that the two deaths have occured I am hearing that the insurance companies are getting tougher but so will the cops becuase they has been alot of controversy in Melbourne over the drag racing deaths.

I have taken the power and weight figures used in the calculation directly from a brochure I have from Honda for the Type R. After browsing the net I found this site http://www.supercars.net/cars/2000@$Acura@$Integra%20Type-Rg.html which states that the weight of the Type R is 1197 kg / 2639 lbs - can someone with a Type R PLEASE VERIFY this because if the Type R weighed 30-40kg more, it would be LEGAL to drive it.

If Honda hadn't tried to save so much weight than there would be a good chance I would be driving the Type R right now. As I said I had found a nice one with low km's, stock and in excellent condition. I doubt I will find one as good if I'm looking in 16 months time.

Sorry for the essay guys.

[CJL]

hmmmm not sure but it could be because its been weighed with aircon, unless its a standard item they measure the tare weight (bog stock)...

Do you realise there is a model listing on the integra that has all the sepcs, if not here it is:

DC5 Integra Type R
Release:
Engine: K20A 2.0L DOHC i-VTEC, 147kW@7400RPM, 192Nm@6000RPM
Drivetrain: 6 Speed close ratio, 4.764 FD, Helical LSD (same as JDM)
Weight: 1,160Kg

DC2 Integra Type R
Released:
Engine: B18C7 1.8L DOHC VTEC, 141kW@7,900RPM
Drivetrain: 5 speed close ratio, Limited Slip Differential (LSD)
Weight: 1,087Kg

[linkorr]

johnnykos - maybe you should be checking the weight of the Honda Integra(aust) not the Acura Integra(US). CJL posted the specs above. And most likely those are the specs used to calculate the power to weight.

Guys this sucks. but.. blame the idiots who've been illegally dragging/street racing and getting caught/killing people.

[BiGANG]

i am living in sudney and own a dc2 type r, i just got off my p's last month, i had the integra for about 5 months whilst on my p's. i never really got hassled by cops or anything, but insurance is a b**ch. Just cars quoted me 3700 and a 800 excess for my car. so if you can afford insurance for it, or are willing to just go with third party property, get the teg. its the best thing youll ever do.

[ilusi]

i am 22 y.o....i just got my type r....i am off my P's already....i have no problems at all!! I live in melbourne by the way.

I have only lowered the car, with cat back exhaust and air filter...i havent had any problems....touch wood!

Insurance is also not a problem for me....very easy...i am paying $1650 for my car....go for it mate!!!

[edw-R]

Which company are you quote?? I'm 23. Need to pay $3000.

[2ds]

just to clarify, yes it is illegal, 125kw/tonne is the where the buck stops so to speak

have you considered getting a Vti-r integra or even a civic, they are pretty simular and don't break the power/weight ratio.

-2ds