shock dust boots and bump stops

[vinnY]

so i was pulling off my koni yellows to throw on my ground control sleeves

turns out i have a problem
the steering rack boots i had originally planned to use, though fits inside the spring and fits the shock perfectly won't let the bump stop go through it because the bump stops too large

now i have two options, find something else to use as a dust boot or get thinner bump stops(poly?)

anyone have any suggestions on what else i can use as a dust boot? or what sorta bump stops would be okay for my application

found this (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=917766) over at h-t, while they use dust boots they don't bloody tell you what car they got it off :( bummer
two possible solutions just came to mind so i'll give them a go again soon.. involves a bike tube and cutting the stock dust boot down

[bennjamin]

find some OEM blown shocks , use the dust covers off them. You will need to slightly enlarge the size of the piston hole on the boot to accommodate the larger koni piston

universal bump stops will fit you just got to trim to suit your ride height.

[vinnY]

i have stock dust covers, but if they compress they'll hit the sleeves and one will just destroy the other hence the need to make custom dust boots

[bennjamin]

i have stock dust covers, but if they compress they'll hit the sleeves and one will just destroy the other hence the need to make custom dust boots

i mean metal dust covers....found on most OEM shocks.

[vinnY]

i have oem shocks
i have the oem dust covers
the rear oem dust covers are half metal, half rubber as you know
the rubber part is fine, it'll probably fit over the sleeve
but the metal half of the dust cover won't fit over the sleeve as far as i know, will have to try again to double check though

unless... you're talking about the front dust covers? they're all metal iirc

[bennjamin]

interesting - since koni made it to reuse the OEM dust covers front n rear.

I have been installing these into euros/dcs/egs/eks etc for the last 5 years and always reused the oem bitz. Im sure it fits Vin just line it up ! OR i dont quite understand what you are on about lol

[vinnY]

hey?



so i was pulling off my koni yellows to throw on my ground control sleeves

skimmed over something ben? ;)

without sleeves sure, stock dust covers will fit. using them now infact
but with the gc sleeves it's a no go :(

[bennjamin]

yes i did miss that :) u are exactly right about the GC's soz man !
Back to the drawing board.

Might pay to go to a local repco or supercheap , ask for boot covers off a ford or holden ( larger shocks) - take out of plastic and trial fit to your shock

[vinnY]

yeah i went to repco and picked up a couple dust boots from a holden vn of some sort.. they fit in the shock
they fit over the shock body snug
they fit over the shock strut
but won't fit over the bump stop :(
might have to modify the stock dust boot somehow

[dsp26]

but don't the gc sleeves go down the strut body a bit like any other sleeve kit? dust boots are mainly to cover the shaft and a bit of the strut body so dust doesn't get on the seals where the shaft goes in/out on the strut

repco sells sets of dust boots plus the bump stop for (from memory) $36ea.. not worth it.. i ebay'd mine

on another note i ended up using my old nissan poly bump stops which i was able to cut away a bit without sacrificing integrity

***EDIT***
ok i understand your problem now... oem metal dust boot hits the sleeve....

get the all rubber ones from repco (come in different widths) or get the ebay ones like i did.. they come with thinner cuttable poly bump stops

[vinnY]

god damnit, will have to pull it apart again tonight to experiment haha
it goes down the shock, but only leaves about 10mm of the shock body exposed
i didn't bother to measure how long the metal sleeve part was though

installed my lca's last night with the new bushings which is why i took out the shock in the first place
didn't have much experimentation time though :(

[dsp26]

god damnit, will have to pull it apart again tonight to experiment haha
it goes down the shock, but only leaves about 10mm of the shock body exposed
i didn't bother to measure how long the metal sleeve part was though

installed my lca's last night with the new bushings which is why i took out the shock in the first place
didn't have much experimentation time though :(

lol.. no biggy vin.. at least you have adjustable sleeves.. you can cheat and not bother compressing the springs haha.. hate compressing springs, hell of a workout in summer

[vinnY]

my current eibach springs need no compression either ;)

[dsp26]

my current eibach springs need no compression either ;)

i'll post the linky for the boot/bumpstop source tonight :thumbsup:

[Frankie]

Ay vinny have you seen this DIY before this might help ya out with the bump stop and dust cover


http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70834&highlight=ground+control

[vinnY]

yeah, just didn't get the right boots thats all :(

[Frankie]

okay lol no worries ive got konis aswell very good shocks

[vinnY]

yeah mine are still good, just scratched to the shithouse
might repaint them or something just to stop the rust from spreading

[vinnY]

say anyone know the ID of the rear dust boot?

i measured the fronts and they appear to be about 51mm ID
the sleeves themselves measure in at about 49.5mm OD
the full metal dust boots seem to slip over the sleeves without much trouble so i'm hoping that it'll be all lined up properly if i bolted it up all tight together

[EG30]

just got my GC kit as well.

It says on the instruction sheet to cut the factory dust boot to 1.5 in length and cut off half of the bump stop's length.

I'll be trimming the factory bump stop and not bothering with the dust boot.

[vinnY]

i'm too paranoid to run without :(

[bungsai]

you like making life hard for yourself dont you vin.

[vinnY]

i do :thumbdwn::p

[vinnY]

just got my GC kit as well.

It says on the instruction sheet to cut the factory dust boot to 1.5 in length and cut off half of the bump stop's length.

I'll be trimming the factory bump stop and not bothering with the dust boot.

wait when you say not bothering, do you mean leaving it out completely or not bothering to cut it down?

[EG30]

leaving it out completely

[vinnY]

:O
well i'll be experimenting with them a bit later.. will post my findings

actually last time i had the rear shock out, i noticed a bit of oil around the shock piston, not good news is it? :(

[vinnY]

so i experimented with the rears
turns out having it captive when first assembled means stock height :(
dropped it 2.5" ;)
ended up cutting the dust boot, so now its 60mm and i slipped the stock piece of rubber over it to somewhat aid the spring into sitting in the top hat bushing properly

will figure out how i want to do the fronts in about 5-6 hours time :D

edit; update with the fronts, ended up cutting up the dust boot to about 90mm
found a destroyed bump stop on the front passenger side :(
car sits nicely now :)
was going to attempt to replace my front lower control arm bushes, but it appears the lower ball joints on the knuckles don't like to come out

[vinnY]

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6426/bumpstoptt0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7856/stanceck2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

i'll raise it a bit once i get over the novelty :)

[nd55]

> but it appears the lower ball joints on the knuckles don't like to come out

apart from using ball joint tools, there a trick whereby the weight of the car and a spanner/etc is used to break the ball joint.

Will post the link when I find it.

Nick.

[vinnY]

yeah i've previously used a large fork-like tool and slipped it into the gap between the lca and knuckle and i'd drop the knuckle and it would just pop out
now it just sits there without much popping action :(
will probably have to buy a ball joint tool later today anyhow

on another note, lucky i'm replacing my brake lines tomorrow
found out the clear coating is screwed and the braid has split exposing the line within :(



Stiffening the bump rubbers by either replacing them with harder bushes (e.g. poly), or 'pre-loading' them by compressing the rubber with a spacer (i.e. a washer about 5mm thick with an OD about the same size as the retaining washer and an ID that's just a bit bigger then the OD of the crush tube, that fits between the retaining washer and the top of the upper rubber bush, thus compressing /pre-loading the bush rubbers when the upper bolt is tightened) gives the damper more 'authority' over the springs, the unsprung mass and the sprung mass, thus making a significant improvement to chassis response and to how well the dampers can keep the contact patches in stable contact with the road surface.

will give this a go.. just need to find the right washer :(
i'm under the assumption that johnlear on honda-tech is infact JohnL on our own forums
wanna chime in and give more info on the topic JohnL? :)

[vinnY]

okay just went for a test drive, seems its a lot more stiffer than i expected even with my koni's set to softest setting all round
running 400/300lbs front/rear and didn't realise it was gonna be so stiff :o
wonder if theres any way to make it a tad softer, i guess pre-loading the bushings using the above method wouldn't help with the stiffness at the moment :p

[bennjamin]

>
apart from using ball joint tools, there a trick whereby the weight of the car and a spanner/etc is used to break the ball joint.

Will post the link when I find it.

Nick.


dont even need to use the weight of the car.

1.jack up front end or side , leave working side on jack stand
2.take off wheel , remove split pin and loosen lower crown nut , leave it on the thread of the ball joint
3.jack up the lower control arm (with suspension in) slowly , say until same as static height
4. look inside the gap above the LCA behind the hub itself , there is a gap around 1 inch in height. Place a bar , ratchet end or socket piece etc in this gap. Make sure it fits snug.
5. Be careful.......DROP the jack down once or a few times to "crack" the ball joint end. Quite easy and quick.
You can use a big metal mallet and a few good whacks too -

[vinnY]

yeah tried that a couple times ben, used to work
doesn't work now for some reason though, got me totally stumped
well hitting the brake lines tomorrow so maybe i'll give it another shot to take off the front lca

[bennjamin]

it will always work , just takes time. Try a combo of that , a few hits on the LCA end with a big hammer and alot of WD40.

[vinnY]

bad news fellas
got the lca out
had it on my press
the bushes won't come out :(
no matter what funky position i was in, the bush wouldn't press out so i had to reinstall it with the stock bushes :(

[bennjamin]

u should of take the lca to pedders or similar....they can get em out and reinstall new for $55 per LCA. Piece of mind -

[string]

okay just went for a test drive, seems its a lot more stiffer than i expected even with my koni's set to softest setting all round
running 400/300lbs front/rear and didn't realise it was gonna be so stiff :o
wonder if theres any way to make it a tad softer, i guess pre-loading the bushings using the above method wouldn't help with the stiffness at the moment :p

Increasing spring rate increases the frequency of the suspension - i.e. how fast you bob around as you travel across uneven road. In my opinion, high spring rates are far more tolerable than stiff shocks, it's just getting accustomed to your body moving less distance but faster. When you raise up the damper settings (especially rear) you will get into the realms of "stiff", where the now faster oscillations are being ended violently, transmitting all the joy to your back and internal organs.

I think you would have regretted going any softer. I'm running 400lbf/500lbr and want to go much higher, far too much dive under braking, and have to raise the front up to keep off bumpstops. Then again, if it's strictly a street car then coupled with a ~24mm rear swaybar you've made a damn good choice :thumbsup:

[vinnY]

yep strictly street with an itr rear sway + asr
realised i had high tyre pressures with the old springs(38psi front, 36psi rear) so it was pretty much skipping over bumpy surfaces
dropped it 2psi and its made all the difference :)

[nd55]

1) Vinny, regards the link to bellows like shock boots.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=917766

You seen these?

How about Energy suspension shock boots?
http://www.energysuspension.com/pages/shockboots.html

part number 9.8130G

2)
> running 400/300lbs front/rear and didn't realise it was gonna be so stiff
> wonder if theres any way to make it a tad softer,

You can swap the GC's front to back, I believe.
400 in the rear is what auto cross racers in the US recommend for our small hatches.

Probably won't win you any fans from passengers in the back seat though.

3)
> got the lca out
> had it on my press
> the bushes won't come ou

There is another thread here on the merits of burning out stuck LCA bushes.

Mine also wouldn't budge, despite access to a press.

4)
> seems its a lot more stiffer than i expected

You did cut the OEM bump stop in half, yes?

5)
> dropped it 2.5"

Are you aware of thre trick whereby the front shock fork is pushed about 20mm up the shock body, thereby giving you a bit more shock travel?

Nick.

[vinnY]

yeah checked those out, just couldn't be bothered going to the lengths
ended up just cutting up my stock ones and they seem to work fine, with the car on the ground the stock dust boots cover any exposed shock piston :)

with the spring rates, it's not too bad as i first experienced
dropped the tyre pressures and it seems to have mellowed out a bit and is pretty bareable :)

[Limbo]

just wondering what are the issues of runninng without a bump stop?
just that my rear ones wouldn't fit and i was told didn't really need them?
So currently running without rear bump stops

[vinnY]

clickly (http://www.whiteline.com.au/faqelse01.htm#Bumpstops_-_are_they_important) to read about bump stops limbo
extremely important to have them

[string]

If you've modified your suspension in any way, most of what Whiteline said about bump-stops goes right out the window.

You NEED them to stop your shock from bottoming out. Quick death to a Koni. How long the bump-stop needs to be depends on how stiff your spring is and how much suspension travel you have.

[Limbo]

yeah modded suspension. my shocks are designed for low springs. Also they are damper adjustable.

[Limbo]

yeah guess i have to pull them out again.
Any ideas on where to get some good ones?

[dsp26]

best thing to do to measure how long a bumpstop you need is to tie a zip-tie to the bottom of the shaft near the shock body and push down the shaft into the body as far as it can go...

That equals bottom out limit, there was a rule of thumb on this which i can't remember but i personally make sure my bump stops hit the upper mount with 1inch before bottom out.

This is also the reason i use soft polyurethane bumpstops instead, because a hard pot hole or bump which can actually potentially bottom out your struts can completely demolish any factory foam bushes which will lead to bottom out


yeah guess i have to pull them out again.
Any ideas on where to get some good ones?
got my poly's from the states... will PM you tonight if i can locate the business card that went with it

[Limbo]

Thanks mate appreciated.
Just wanna make sure before i go on my first track outting

[vinnY]

let me know if you're gonna get some limbo
i had a bump stop explode on me last week :p

yes, rear shock bottomed out and when i took it out to inspect the bump stop had split in half

[dsp26]

alrighty i'll post it here... it's cheaper than the really stiff foam one sold at repco... this one does work out cheaper on shipping when you bulk buy..

[Limbo]

yeah may need to organise a bulk buy with some of you guys if your interested.

Hey Vinny maybe we can do a team effort and install together

[dsp26]

couldn't find their business card but i found their ebay store:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-RUBBER-COMPRESSION-BUMP-STOP-SHOCK-BUMPERS-QTY-4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262QQ categoryZ33590QQihZ015QQitemZ250245082559QQtcZphot o

they have different sizes available as per item description.


be careful though and confirm with the seller, the way they advertised it i was under the impressiont he price was for x4.. apparently it's for each when i received only one??? but pretty sure price is for x4 and i was a dick and got jipped...

[Limbo]

cool will look into it!