NEW 2009 Euro Luxury Auto Pinging

[jbowly]

I have a new 2009 luxury Euro. Only had it 3 weeks, now has 1000 kms on it pinging like mad. Pings at 60KPH pings at 100KPH on the flat. Seems to ping less going up an incline under load. Currently running on Premium (95 octane) going to change to (98 octane on next tank) Dealers here dont have an answer. Taken it in twice. Doest seem to be fuel related. Manual clearly states pinging can damage the engine if left unchecked so would appreciate if you do find a solution to pass it on to other New Euro Drivers. From searching American Honda Forums they have the same problem over there. Our Euro model over there is known over there as the ACURA TSX. Seems to be a Honda factory fix thats required, not something a local dealer tech can fix with adjustment. Anyone else have the same problem. Any help would be appreciated

UPDATE UPDATE 8th October 1500KMS.
Dropped it in for 1000km check to dealer 2 days ago...After keeping the vehicle for 2 days...Result. Pinging is recognised as a problem even at 98Octane. Worse with Premium. Dealer doesnt know what is causing it. HONDA head office have not provided an answer, even though they are aware of it. Dealer added 2 bottles of octane booster but still the pinging did not go away. It appears to be a HONDA AUSTRALIA problem but they are not addressing it or giving their Euro owners any advice of attending to the problem. ( doesnt leave you with a comfort feeling driving around in a new $46,000 car with this kind of problem )

this pinging problem appears to be across Auto 09 Euros as a model..Now I dont believe Honda will not fix the problem in the end .. but Honda please when are you going to address this problem


UPDATE 8th November. Now driven 2500ks.. No change.. No solution from Honda. I have been contacted by Honda Australia Direct ( A Fellow named Heinz) Stated they are aware of the problem and are working with Japan to come up with a fix for it. When I asked for a time frame for this fault to be fixed he would not provide any. Furthur this contact was by phone so there is nothing in writing to protect me from a future failure. Now if they cannot fix it without Japans help it sounds serious to me. What do you think? If you are thinking of buying this model suggest you wait for the next model maybe 2010. Cause the manual states on Page 340 that if pinging is left unattended it can cause engine failure.

UPDATE 25th January 2009.. 6000kms .With a lot of letters to the media about the same engine noise we are experiencing here in Australia finally they have caved in and given me an answer. It is as follows. Software fix is reputedly available mid February

Dear John, we appreciate that you are concerned about the presence of an engine operational sound as it detracts from your overall enjoyment of the vehicle and we wish to again reassure you that this condition will have no impact on performance or engine reliability. We have been working closely with the technical division of Honda Corporation in Japan and following extensive investigations we can confirm that the condition you are experiencing is not that of “pinging” which is known within the industry as “pre-ignition”. The condition that you are experiencing is a combustion sound taking place after the programmed ignition, namely a “post combustion noise”. As this condition takes place after the programmed ignition and with the piston on its downward stroke, there is no detrimental force or impact within the engine in your vehicle. Therefore your engine has not sustained any damage and we are happy to offer you a guarantee on the engine while you are the owner of this vehicle as a way of reassuring you of our confidence that no wear or damage is occurring to the engine or associated components.

We trust this advice from the manufacturer clarifies the matter.

Regards
Joe Gelsi
Customer Relations Manager
Honda Australia Pty Ltd

April 2009. After 7 unpleasurable months and 10,000 kilometers Honda still have not come up with a fix for all 'pinging' 2009 Euro owners out there. Promises promises no delivery. It would appear to be a major problem and not minor if after 7 months they have no solution. Remember this pinging issue was known in England back in 2008 and in the USA as early as March 2008. So they knew about the problem before it was released here.
Now when I drove the demonstrator vehicle before purchase there was no pinging sound. Yet when I picked up my new vehicle there was an engine pinging sound driving it straight off the showroom floor. Could we claim deceptive selling practices. There is a deafening silence from Honda now on the matter. If you have a pinging model how can you sell it until after a fix from Honda even if you wanted to. Are you sick of this treatment. Would you like to become part of a class action to seek a legal end to their procrastination. Contact me at jbowly@tpg.com.au if interested. Remember divided they can tell us anything as a group we have more ability to make them listen.


August 2009
At last the so called Ping Fix has been carried out on my Euro Auto. Yes initally there is improvement. The fix involved a change of knock sensors and a change of software. But dont all sigh with a tone of relief. IT DOES NOT GET RID OF THE PINGING SOUND. It has got rid of the ping over 100 KPH...... BUT it is still pinging between 40 KPH and 60 KPH and around town often this is the speed you have to travel at. So after 12 months of promises from Honda there is NO real improvement. It would now appear that the problem is more costly to fix than HONDA are prepared to make. They have now issued me with a letter stating that my vehicle is warranteed for the life of the vehicle in my possession for any fault which develops from this pinging condition. Is this an admission that they dont know how to get rid of the noise and I have to put up with it. It would appear so. This is my 4th Honda and sadly my last. I purchased this model based on a test drive of a vehicle that had no such ping. I was delivered a totally different car that has proved to be a pinging nightmare. Honda have not fixed the problem under warranty in 12 months. So much for their integrity as an honorable Japanese car manufacturer.

[snYpz]

jbowly welcome to the forum!

There is another thread at the moment regarding the noise in the new euro (aka CU2)...not sure if its the same noise that ur complaining about.
Here it is... http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96966
:D

PS. Would you happen to have an auto or manual?

[aaronng]

Seems to ping less going up an incline under load.
If that happens, then it is not pinging. The sound is caused by something else.

[tron07]

Can you demand for a replacement car and let them fix your car??

[my_vtec77]

I dont know much about engine though. But you taken to dealer twice and still couldn't find the problems so just ask them for another new car.:p And tell them it's waste of time, can't wait for fixing.:D

Good luck mate.

[loki78]

Is this knocking sound happening to all CU2 with an auto gearbox? Anyone with an auto euro without this problem?

I'm really curious as I'm looking into getting this car...

[eur001]

Is this knocking sound happening to all CU2 with an auto gearbox? Anyone with an auto euro without this problem?

I'm really curious as I'm looking into getting this car...

if I were you, I will wait now or go with other model. Apperently, many auto having the same problem.

[eur001]

I have a new 2009 luxury Euro. Only had it 3 weeks, now has 1000 kms on it pinging like mad. Pings at 60KPH pings at 100KPH on the flat. Seems to ping less going up an incline under load. Currently running on Premium (95 octane) going to change to (98 octane on next tank) Dealers here dont have an answer. Taken it in twice. Doest seem to be fuel related. Manual clearly states pinging can damage the engine if left unchecked so would appreciate if you do find a solution to pass it on to other New Euro Drivers. From searching American Honda Forums they have the same problem over there. Our Euro model over there is known over there as the ACURA TSX. Seems to be a Honda factory fix thats required, not something a local dealer tech can fix with adjustment. Anyone else have the same problem. Any help would be appreciated

1st, please report this to Honda Australia. They have to and will look into this if more compliants. I dont think there is anything the dealer can do. They have to wait for honda australia to give them the solution. They will tell you to put 98fuel.

[MiSloVic]

have you tried mobil 6000? it is apparently at least 96 octane, at a normal 95 octane price.
i doubt 1 octane will help, but worth a shot.

[SPQR]

have you tried mobil 6000? it is apparently at least 96 octane, at a normal 95 octane price.
i doubt 1 octane will help, but worth a shot.

You guys have a choice. All of our petrol comes from Singapore. So Shell, Mobil, and BP sell the same stuff in Darwin. They just "badge engineer" it by adding their logo.

And only BP sells 98 RON here.

[EuroDude]

It doesnt make sence, why isn't it happening to Manual owners? Its the same engine lol! :p

Perhaps the auto gearbox isnt aligned/mounted properly and causing a imbalance through the crank. (/random guess)

[aaronng]

It doesnt make sence, why isn't it happening to Manual owners? Its the same engine lol! :p

Perhaps the auto gearbox isnt aligned/mounted properly and causing a imbalance through the crank. (/random guess)

That means it is NOT pinging, and is a sound from the gearbox, NOT the engine.

I reckon it is a gearbox ringing sound, which happens in auto gearboxes from Daihatsu and older Mitsubishi Lancers.

[MiSloVic]

You guys have a choice. All of our petrol comes from Singapore. So Shell, Mobil, and BP sell the same stuff in Darwin. They just "badge engineer" it by adding their logo.

And only BP sells 98 RON here.

u r right. most petrol comes from singapore, but they are modified locally.. as in, additives and octane, ethanols, others are added here.

98RON is available from Shell, Caltex and Mobil as well.

[Bobjones]

I am still of the belief it is GEARBOX related and NOT engine, as it happens more often than not when just about to change up a gear and just there after...called Honda Australia today and someone is going to call me back...I await with baited breath...lol

[eur001]

I am still of the belief it is GEARBOX related and NOT engine, as it happens more often than not when just about to change up a gear and just there after...called Honda Australia today and someone is going to call me back...I await with baited breath...lol

We all waiting for your good news.... :)

[swork]

i have a 09 with the same problem. tried all different 98 RON fuels with no improvement. Took it to honda today and they said they couldnt fault it so they are arranging a tech from honda to come down and test drive it in 2 weeks time.

mine happens when you accelerate at normal speed and sound like a metallic rattling noise, like little ball bearings getting thrown around. Doesnt happen always but happens enough to be annoying.

[aaronng]

i have a 09 with the same problem. tried all different 98 RON fuels with no improvement. Took it to honda today and they said they couldnt fault it so they are arranging a tech from honda to come down and test drive it in 2 weeks time.

mine happens when you accelerate at normal speed and sound like a metallic rattling noise, like little ball bearings getting thrown around. Doesnt happen always but happens enough to be annoying.
Is yours an auto too?

[eur001]

Is yours an auto too?

Let me guess......Auto!!
:)

More and more owners having the same problem.. Its funny that Honda Aust still think that this is only happen to a "few" vehicles.

[EuroDude]

Maybe they know about it and pretend not to know, until they find a fix lolol

[swork]

yep mines an auto. funny thing is if i drive harder it doesnt usually happen

[bk212]

i have a 09 with the same problem. tried all different 98 RON fuels with no improvement. Took it to honda today and they said they couldnt fault it so they are arranging a tech from honda to come down and test drive it in 2 weeks time.

mine happens when you accelerate at normal speed and sound like a metallic rattling noise, like little ball bearings getting thrown around. Doesnt happen always but happens enough to be annoying.

I have been wondering if my rattling was really the same thing that others have been talking about, but this description sounds exactly like what I am experiencing. Mine sounds like it's coming from right front of the engine bay, I actually wondered for a while if there was something loose and rattling in there. Took mine to Honda North and they were unable to fault, will be taking it back soon either specifically for this or for 10k service due in about a month. btw mine is a CU2 auto.

[eur001]

I have been wondering if my rattling was really the same thing that others have been talking about, but this description sounds exactly like what I am experiencing. Mine sounds like it's coming from right front of the engine bay, I actually wondered for a while if there was something loose and rattling in there. Took mine to Honda North and they were unable to fault, will be taking it back soon either specifically for this or for 10k service due in about a month. btw mine is a CU2 auto.

Make sure you report this to Honda Aust.

[SPQR]

u r right. most petrol comes from singapore, but they are modified locally.. as in, additives and octane, ethanols, others are added here.

98RON is available from Shell, Caltex and Mobil as well.

Thanks MiSloVic; my last point was that only BP sells 98 RON in all of the Northern Territory. Other brands are not available here in 98 RON and in some places where there are a lot of indigenous people, you can only buy the 91 RON "OPAL" petrol that does not produce a high when sniffed. You cannot even get 95 RON in those places.

As I said, you guys down there in the deep south are spoiled for choice in terms of different octane grades and brands.

[frank87]

I have the same problem wrote Honda (18Emails) all they replies were its the fuel problem have instructed i have been using 98Ocatne since day one how ever was still advised that the petrol in NSW is not upto quality, i then Contacted Shell and Mobile as they're the only petrols i use Shell and Mobile both Advised there are happy for honda to do Tests On the petrole they supply and the petrole do meet australian guide lines and they are more than happy to take actions in court if honda are 100% presistent that the petrole supplied are of poor quality. i then got back to honda and was give this

""Hi Frank
Thanks for your feedback , which has been passed your comments on to our
National Technical Department for review. We will be in contact in the
coming weeks via your dealer if we have any further advice.
kind regards""

wait for 2 weeks nathing happened got back to honda and 2 hours later received call from the dealer saying there will be a tech on site on 24th this month @ 12.30 Pm Which means i have to take another day off work just to do this stupid crap its the 3rd day off work now honda will not give courtersey cars or arrange another time what a disgrace to customer service how ever in regards to that honda offered me a life time engine warranty to my car as long as it is under my poession which iam pleased how ever this does not adress the issue that the car sends a pinging noise to my head everytime i drive this new car

since then i have contacted the consumer fair trading they said to wait for the report after i see the honda tech on 24th this month and advised there is a consumer demand form and a complaint form if things does not go well the dept of fair trading advised they will neogiate on behalf of me

so what i say is be persistent and maybe start a class action lol
especially when the car designed for 95Octane is requiring 98 and it still does not fix the problem

first new car i've earned since im only 21 and it is the luxry sat nav model as well i totally did not expect new car experience to be like this if i wanted pinging noises i wouldve went for 2nd hand. the customer service provided by this multi billion company is sooo poor that my local conner shop has better comflict resolution. and what ever happend to the mission statement posted on the honda world wide website

Honda Philosophy

Basic Principles Respect for the individual. The Three Joys (buying, selling and creating)

Company Principle
(Mission Statement) Maintaining a global viewpoint, we are dedicated to supplying products of the highest quality, yet at a reasonable price for worldwide customer satisfaction.

Management Policies Proceed always with ambition and youthfulness.
Respect sound theory, develop fresh ideas, and make the most effective use of time.
Enjoy work and encourage open communication.
Strive constantly for a harmonious flow of work.
Be ever mindful of the value of research and endeavor.

[frank87]

I have been wondering if my rattling was really the same thing that others have been talking about, but this description sounds exactly like what I am experiencing. Mine sounds like it's coming from right front of the engine bay, I actually wondered for a while if there was something loose and rattling in there. Took mine to Honda North and they were unable to fault, will be taking it back soon either specifically for this or for 10k service due in about a month. btw mine is a CU2 auto.

thhats excatly where mine is coming from and i can assure you it is pinging noise

[aaronng]

thhats excatly where mine is coming from and i can assure you it is pinging noise

How can you assure us that it is pinging?

[frank87]

How can you assure us that it is pinging?

because the mechanic thats employed by the honda dealer and my local mechanic both assured that it is the pinging how ever there are unable to rectify this as there are no info being supplied to them by honda AUST all they were able to do was reinstall the programs how ever it still remains and he informed me the noise is def comming from the driver side engine unless there is another problem with the engine

[swork]

i got a booking with the honda tech on friday the 24th as well, though i was told to leave the car for the whole day

[frank87]

yeah i complianed to the customer relation manager cuz my dealer told me to wait around and i was like i buy a car to get me to places eg(work) the main thing not to wait around in a work shop so she has organised a courtersy car for me very greatful though donno y they cold not just do that on first request which wouldve saved alot of trouble which dealer did you get yours from?.. i got mine from homebush larke hoskins the service department dude there is the worst man havnt seen any more ruder dude but the larke hoskins in rosbery offers top customer service

[Bobjones]

Please let us know how you go on the 24th as I have NOT had an offer from anyone for a Tech to have a look at my car, well other than the dealership one, whom in my honest opinion is not qualified to diagnose the problem. As far as I am concerned this needs to be addressed by Honda Australia in conjunction with Honda Japan, as far as I am concerned this is a fundemental problem that goes back to the manufacturering process as it is also occurring in other countries including the USA and some people in Europe.

I also fail to see where the onus is on the customer to constantly be disadvantaged and disrupted by returning a new vehicles to the dealership for the same issue a number of times. I am currently seeking assistance from legal representatives as I feel this is not good enough. The Office of Fair Trading whilst good do not have the legal bite that other countries have for example the various State "Lemon Laws" in the USA, and thus I will be going with what I am being told by professionals, thus should I go the Office of Fair Trading route I will only do so under advice.

Frank, could you also proof read what you write as it is difficult to understand at times...

[swork]

i got mine at rick damelian but have been dealing with peter warren due to them being closer to home.

i was told that the honda guy is comming in the morning, so he is probably driving mine first then probably drive yours afterwards.

i'd encourage anyone with this problem in syd to book your car in for this problem on friday the 24th at peter warren or larke hoskins. the more the better.

[frank87]

Please let us know how you go on the 24th as I have NOT had an offer from anyone for a Tech to have a look at my car, well other than the dealership one, whom in my honest opinion is not qualified to diagnose the problem. As far as I am concerned this needs to be addressed by Honda Australia in conjunction with Honda Japan, as far as I am concerned this is a fundemental problem that goes back to the manufacturering process as it is also occurring in other countries including the USA and some people in Europe.

I also fail to see where the onus is on the customer to constantly be disadvantaged and disrupted by returning a new vehicles to the dealership for the same issue a number of times. I am currently seeking assistance from legal representatives as I feel this is not good enough. The Office of Fair Trading whilst good do not have the legal bite that other countries have for example the various State "Lemon Laws" in the USA, and thus I will be going with what I am being told by professionals, thus should I go the Office of Fair Trading route I will only do so under advice.

Frank, could you also proof read what you write as it is difficult to understand at times...


will do let you know please let us know as well what advise you received if it is any help to us owners with problem and what route u decide to take cheers

[aaronng]

because the mechanic thats employed by the honda dealer and my local mechanic both assured that it is the pinging how ever there are unable to rectify this as there are no info being supplied to them by honda AUST all they were able to do was reinstall the programs how ever it still remains and he informed me the noise is def comming from the driver side engine unless there is another problem with the engine

It is odd, because if it was pinging, then the manual Euros should also have the same problem.

[frank87]

It is odd, because if it was pinging, then the manual Euros should also have the same problem.

well i guess we have different ways of defining pinging honda has admited to me in email that there are aware of pinging noises in the new CU2 if you have a manual and its not pinging then i guess lucky you?.:thumbsup:

[aaronng]

well i guess we have different ways of defining pinging honda has admited to me in email that there are aware of pinging noises in the new CU2 if you have a manual and its not pinging then i guess lucky you?.:thumbsup:

Every complaint regarding this issue on Ozhonda and also in the US on the TSX forum are from auto owners. It is not statiscally insignificant to place it based on luck anymore. That is why I am tending towards the gearbox rather than the engine.

[frank87]

Every complaint regarding this issue on Ozhonda and also in the US on the TSX forum are from auto owners. It is not statiscally insignificant to place it based on luck anymore. That is why I am tending towards the gearbox rather than the engine.


thats what i initially thought because the noises come out around jsut the before when the gear change and after the gear changed how ever was informed by techs so im going what has been advised to me hopefully the guy is able to tell me what it is how ever i was told by the director of cosumer relations that they have had a few hondas owned by the company which has had the pinging noises removed from better fuel how ever i find it hard to belive that. i have my fingers crossed as iam pretti peed about driving a new car with noises and i still want to enjoy it while its new

[aaronng]

thats what i initially thought because the noises come out around jsut the before when the gear change and after the gear changed how ever was informed by techs so im going what has been advised to me hopefully the guy is able to tell me what it is how ever i was told by the director of cosumer relations that they have had a few hondas owned by the company which has had the pinging noises removed from better fuel how ever i find it hard to belive that. i have my fingers crossed as iam pretti peed about driving a new car with noises and i still want to enjoy it while its new

Yeah. Keep us updated on what Honda Aus says. I reckon it is BS having such problem on a new car and being so widespread! They need to do something about this.

[Bobjones]

Frank,

Despite the noise "appearing" to come from the drivers side, reasonance may mean that it is actually the passenger side. The fact is that it does not "rattle or ping" under all load conditions and occurs significantly on up changes and just there after leads me to believe that there is a gearbox issue. There may also be a contributing issue in relation to the engine re tuning and pinging, put this should not occur on a N/A engine running 98 octane fuel. Our track car has over 350awkw out of a 2.2L running on BP 98, you cannot tell me that a major manufacturer has fudged up the tuning that bad that it happens low in the rev range, thus more load inclined, producing about 100 fly wheel kw, and not occur under heavy acceleration which would lead more towards higher loads and greater chance of detonation. i find that hard to believe and I have built some N/A motors in my time and even on a standard base tune I have never had pinging under light loads even on a run in tune...

[quenjose]

regardless of the well intentioned opinions,
theres isnt much else frank can do other than wait for Honda to respond with a fix.

hope the problem gets solved soon.

[bk212]

Guys, can those of you who have contacted Honda Australia provide contact details of who you're dealing with? I want to add my voice but don't want it to get lost by dealing with a general inquiry email address. Seems like talking to the local dealer is going to be a waste of time.

Cheers

[eur001]

Guys, can those of you who have contacted Honda Australia provide contact details of who you're dealing with? I want to add my voice but don't want it to get lost by dealing with a general inquiry email address. Seems like talking to the local dealer is going to be a waste of time.

Cheers

The guy i contacted name "Hine" or something sound like that.
Sorry, i was too angry to remember his name at the moment...hehehe
I am sooooo happy that more and more owners make thier voice heard by Honda Aust!!
Come on guys, let share all information around and keep up the pressure.
Thanks!

[yfin]

u r right. most petrol comes from singapore, but they are modified locally.. as in, additives and octane, ethanols, others are added here.


I don't think that is right - some of the crude oil may come from Singapore by ship - but most of the petrol in Australia is actually refined in Australia.

Imports of petrol is only 25% of the total market.

[MiSloVic]

I don't think that is right - some of the crude oil may come from Singapore by ship - but most of the petrol in Australia is actually refined in Australia.

Imports of petrol is only 25% of the total market.
Slipped of the pen.. I meant to write 'u might be right'.. It is really tough replying on a mobile phone. I think 'a significant portion' of oz petrol is imported. Some say around 60%. And the petrol companies are creaming us off, by pegging our petrol prices to singapores!

[SPQR]

I don't think that is right - some of the crude oil may come from Singapore by ship - but most of the petrol in Australia is actually refined in Australia.

Imports of petrol is only 25% of the total market.


Slipped of the pen.. I meant to write 'u might be right'.. It is really tough replying on a mobile phone. I think 'a significant portion' of oz petrol is imported. Some say around 60%. And the petrol companies are creaming us off, by pegging our petrol prices to singapores!

Guys, what I said was that petrol in Darwin comes from Singapore since their refineries are closer to Darwin (via shipping) than Australian refineries. Southern cities get most of their petrol from Australian refineries; although I believe that Woolworths brand petrol stations get their petrol from Singapore. I was just envious of the choice of petrol brands and octane grades you guys get down there in the deep south.

[MiSloVic]

speaking of ww petrol, anyone notice that the euro exhaust will smell like fart? Mine does. Changed petrol and the smell disappeared. Just wondering how much sulphur there is, in ww petrol.. Didnt try the proper caltex stations, so, not sure if it is caltex or ww.

[aaronng]

speaking of ww petrol, anyone notice that the euro exhaust will smell like fart? Mine does. Changed petrol and the smell disappeared. Just wondering how much sulphur there is, in ww petrol.. Didnt try the proper caltex stations, so, not sure if it is caltex or ww.
WW = Caltex. Same petrol.

[frank87]

to be honest my field work is in IT so i don't know too much about cars weather where the noises comes from or what's causing it but to my general knowledge but saying the fuel im putting in is not upto scratch i find it hard to believe previously i owned a 05 evo 9 which i use the excat same type of fuel poured from the same station had no problem running that

had to sell the evo due to p plate restrictions and got busted so had to buy a euro and thought might as well buy a brand new 1 it seems appealing

all i really want is for the noise to disspear i couldnt care less of whats casuing it or why it is making the noise but telling me bollocks like fuel quality i just cant accept that as an cause of the pinging thats how i feel anyways from my common sense

the person i have contacted her name is

Irene Price
Assistant Manager
Customer Relations
(Embedded image moved to file: pic03035.gif)
Irene Price | Assistant Manager - Customer Relations | Honda Australia
T: (61 3) 9285 5555 | F: (61 3) 9285 5500 | E: irenep@honda.com.au | W:
www.honda.com.au/cars

very helpful lady relpied emails on a fast pace and promptly, even thought i got abit peed sometimes but cant blame her she dosnt own honda. i guess we all gotta understand these people are just told what the problems are and are rlying to us seeing they are a customer service spepcialist. When we speak to them please keep our cool and know that they are only our first point of contact but i guess gotta be pushy to get results.

and just on a note my EURO has never even touched 95Octane unless on Delivery thats what it had but ever since first tank went empty the car has been running on MOBILE 8000 and Shell V-Power
When was told the FUEL quality i even Tried the V-Power Racing 100Ocatne which i put in the evo sometimes when i go on cruises
that did not stop the pining either that basically kept me on thinking its the gear a few of my mates said it's the gear as well when i told them to test drive but o welps i aint no mechanic lol. just have to go by what im told by the techs i guess

[Bobjones]

I have emailed Irene, the guy I have spoken to at Honda Australia via telephone was a tool, end of story. Like you Frank, all I want is the rattle to go. Mine has gotten so bad that now people I have not told about it can hear it and I feel the vehicle may in fact be unsafe, to the point I do not like my partner to drive it...sad really when you can get a i30 from the ugly H that does not make this noise...

[frank87]

the strange thing is my noise was brought to my attention from a passenger that i had in the car i didnt really think of much at the begining untill my mate a mechanic told me i should get it checked out thats when it all happened mine's gettin pretti bad too the noise is getting louder and more constant havn't really thought about the issue not being safe guess never really came to my attention. but if one of us does get hurt due to this problem im pretty sure HONDA AUS will be all over the headlines eg: the jeeps that blew up when it was brand new

[eur001]

the strange thing is my noise was brought to my attention from a passenger that i had in the car i didnt really think of much at the begining untill my mate a mechanic told me i should get it checked out thats when it all happened mine's gettin pretti bad too the noise is getting louder and more constant havn't really thought about the issue not being safe guess never really came to my attention. but if one of us does get hurt due to this problem im pretty sure HONDA AUS will be all over the headlines eg: the jeeps that blew up when it was brand new

thats very true... Of cause i hope no1 get hurt. However, there are companies out there who take action only after incident happened. Its sad!!
I was wondering is there anything else we can do?! Anyone has any suggestion??
I am glad that i put up this issue here months ago...otherwise we might not know the whole issue and how wide it affected.

[denot]

maybe we could only wait untill product recall/fix or the new batch coming in and compare your first batch to the new version... or sumthing like that...

[frank87]

too bad by that time my car wont be new anymore i wanted a new car to enjoy driving it while it's new lol ah well learnt my lesson beware of Honda's and not to buy the first batch again unless the customer sastisfaction and service is up there

[denot]

yeah... this is bad... I was thinking to trade in my FD2 for one of this but now, I have to wait till next year (or until they fix it) or maybe get the Thai version

[frank87]

just thought i'd post some info about my car. im bored @ work so yeah here it goes

Car Type: Accord Euro Lux Sat Nav
Date of delivery: took the delivery of car on the 12/August/2008
Kms atml; 4000kms on the clock atm
Price:$49300 including elegance pack with out the wood trim on stearing wheel and the non stndard gear nob i think that was it
the price does not include leather protection and paint protection which i forked out after doing the deal, at the end the actual price was $50.500 around there.

Back to dealer twice rang on the phone number of times the service advisor is a douch bag if there were no law launch a RPG at him

first time rang dealer via phone about 1 week after delivery dealer advised to use better fuel and the car might not be run in

1000km service Dealer told they will look @ it almost had car locked there over night because service advisor told me will call me once its done never got a call i went to the dealer as they were closing and picked up my car. they answer to pinging was. still not using good enough fuel.

2500kms called dealer booked in for pinging noises. this time was advised they are aware of issue however unable to perform because honda has not advised them how ever they offered to reinstall systems, i agreed had the system reinstalled car almost locked over night again after service advisor advised me he will call me once its done after work raced over to the dealer and got my car out.

second time to the dealer. i tried to gain acess to an coutersey car, the ass service advisor advised me it is $50 perday. argued with him abit and he replied saying come in and we see what we can do.

got there on the day was told to wait around for 15mins so they can reinstall the system. waited for 1 hour and 45mins and was advised there are experiencing a problem with the software. was asked to leave car @ dealer and pick up in the arvo as i had work still would not offer loan car untill i spoke to the mechanic. he advised me it was 15mins i guess he felt bad for me and he spoke to the advisor and only then was i able to get a loan car and guess what i was expecting a new car or a demo or somthing along that range but i got a old accord euro with was dirty inside lol my worst experience with car dealer ever only been driving for 4 years though but yeah.

called dealer in the arvo was told the car is done and went on a test drive. advisor told me he will call me back never got a call. arrived to the dealer in the arvo to pick up car systems was reinstalled, noises still there, but i discovered both side on my front lip got scratched. brought this to the advisor's attention, his reply to me was and this was his excat words " yeah its probly the hump on our ramp its pretti sharp, dont worry its only plastic when u come back next time i'll touch it up for you... was shocked out of this response they do not give a flying Fu#K at all.

aaronng edit: removed business name

will change dealer after this booking with the honda tech

[eur001]

just thought i'd post some info about my car. im bored @ work so yeah here it goes

Car Type: Accord Euro Lux Sat Nav
Date of delivery: took the delivery of car on the 12/August/2008
Kms atml; 4000kms on the clock atm
Price:$49300 including elegance pack with out the wood trim on stearing wheel and the non stndard gear nob i think that was it
the price does not include leather protection and paint protection which i forked out after doing the deal, at the end the actual price was $50.500 around there.

Back to dealer twice rang on the phone number of times the service advisor is a douch bag if there were no law launch a RPG at him

first time rang dealer via phone about 1 week after delivery dealer advised to use better fuel and the car might not be run in

1000km service Dealer told they will look @ it almost had car locked there over night because service advisor told me will call me once its done never got a call i went to the dealer as they were closing and picked up my car. they answer to pinging was. still not using good enough fuel.

2500kms called dealer booked in for pinging noises. this time was advised they are aware of issue however unable to perform because honda has not advised them how ever they offered to reinstall systems, i agreed had the system reinstalled car almost locked over night again after service advisor advised me he will call me once its done after work raced over to the dealer and got my car out.

second time to the dealer. i tried to gain acess to an coutersey car, the ass service advisor advised me it is $50 perday. argued with him abit and he replied saying come in and we see what we can do.

got there on the day was told to wait around for 15mins so they can reinstall the system. waited for 1 hour and 45mins and was advised there are experiencing a problem with the software. was asked to leave car @ dealer and pick up in the arvo as i had work still would not offer loan car untill i spoke to the mechanic. he advised me it was 15mins i guess he felt bad for me and he spoke to the advisor and only then was i able to get a loan car and guess what i was expecting a new car or a demo or somthing along that range but i got a old accord euro with was dirty inside lol my worst experience with car dealer ever only been driving for 4 years though but yeah.

called dealer in the arvo was told the car is done and went on a test drive. advisor told me he will call me back never got a call. arrived to the dealer in the arvo to pick up car systems was reinstalled, noises still there, but i discovered both side on my front lip got scratched. brought this to the advisor's attention, his reply to me was and this was his excat words " yeah its probly the hump on our ramp its pretti sharp, dont worry its only plastic when u come back next time i'll touch it up for you... was shocked out of this response they do not give a flying Fu#K at all.

aaronng edit: removed business name

will change dealer after this booking with the honda tech


OMG....what an experience!!!!!
I really want to slap them with a copy of their company vision!

[unity]

I imagine you all had a test drive before you purchased your vehicles. Did you notice the "pinging" during your test drive?

[frank87]

i test drove 1 after i signed the dotted line stupid me but yeah drove it anyways. but a test drive was too short to notice things such as pinging noises for us everday people we were prolly more focused on the handling the smoothness of the car and testing out the visuals and stereo's etc the pinging can only be heard under slow accleration and it is quite faint if u have the music up sometimes itsh ard to hear down the track it gets obvious though

[taccord12]

hi new to the thread guys, own an auto cu2, is this like the rattling u hear like as if it sounds like rattling of a house window when its windy or thundering sorta thing? cause i get that when i first accelerate from a complete stop. only happens once a week maybe something like that, random, could that be it?

oh yeh forgot to mention, it doesn't last any longer than say maybe the first 2 seconds of the acceleration from a complete stop.~

[Bobjones]

No this happens also under maintaining speed and under light acceleration as well. To be honest it is intermittent but obvious so obvious that any "tech" whom is "having difficulty in replicating the noise" needs a hearing test or one in honesty...

The demo car did not exibit the noise, and nor would most people listen for it unless they know about it at that point in time.

[frank87]

the noise can be constant depending how you drive as i experienced when i kept my rev at about 2-2.5 my pinging can be constant for about 5-10 secs there is a friction point which u hit in my opinon that sets off the rattle.

[Bobjones]

I have had another call from Heinz at Honda Australia, they are working on the problem in conjunction with Honda Japan but still cannot provide me with a definitive time for a solution. They however, stand behind their product, which I have requested in writing.

[bk212]

Thanks guys for the contact details, I will email them and add my car to the list of those affected. Re the test drive, I didn't notice it at all. Took a few days after picking up my car for me to notice but like most noises, once you are aware of it it's impossible to ignore.

[tron07]

I think I will go get a test drive and experience or see if I can hear the sound....

[aaronng]

I think I will go get a test drive and experience or see if I can hear the sound....

I can see the sound. :p :p

[PNR888]

Today is 24th of Oct, I think a couple of CU2 owners are having their engine detonation/pining noise checked by mechanic from HONDA AUSTRALIA today.

Hope the expert mechanic from honda has some tricks up on his sleeve to cure this annoying noise... otherwise this noise can be CU2's archilli heel and a unfortunate deterrant for many potential buyers including myself.

please give us update on what Honda Australia's mechanic has to say..

[swork]

my honda DSM cancelled on me and my dealer never bothered to tell me until i turned up this morning... next available time is next week. ill be away overseas for the next month so i guess my problem is going nowhere.

at least the service guys admitted honda knew about the problem and were looking into it.

[boleh]

so it's just a problem with the auto? hmm... it's probably upshifting too quickly.

[unity]

My CL9 upshifts very quickly but it doesn't ping. Why would quick upshifting cause pinging?

[kimnkk]

How easy is it to hear this pinging? I couldn't hear it before, I've tried really hard a couple more times yet i don't think i can hear any pinging from the rev range of 1000 all the way up to 5000 (haven't tried any higher). Tried all under steady acceleration with air-con and radio off!

[unity]

Keep it that way and don't try or pretent to hear it. You will become obsessed. It will drive you mad and you will stop enjoying your car. Then you will have the pleasure of meeting your local Honda dealer all to no avail.

[boleh]

unity,
oh i was just thinking how pinging could happen in a manual where u put in the wrong gear, usually higher than it should to match the engine speed.. or possibly a differnt flaw in the CU2 while they were trying hard to minizmine the ADR81 figure

[stik79]

Picked up my Lux CU2 Auto on Friday - only done 100k's but I can't hear any pinging sounds. You've all got me paranoid now! Is there any correlation between build dates and having these sounds?

[shakkas]

yea my car has done 1300 kms and my pinging really bad.
ill get it checked after i get my car door fixed (some stupid bitch reversed into me) but yea it hasnt been fun hearing that and adding the window rattle as well

[SPQR]

Picked up my Lux CU2 Auto on Friday - only done 100k's but I can't hear any pinging sounds. You've all got me paranoid now! Is there any correlation between build dates and having these sounds?

A few years back, you could buy replacement Lucas wiring smoke on ebay. For those that haven't heard the CU2 pinging yet, maybe they might have some replacement "ping-ing" on ebay.

I tracked the smoke down elsewhere at: http://www3.telus.net/bc_triumph_registry/smoke.htm

Enough guys. Please someone, take this issue to the ACCC as I've said before.

[SPQR]

.....some stupid bitch reversed into me...

Lucky it was a stupid one. Those smart ones are worse!

[shakkas]

either way my car is damaged only after 2 weeks,

sigh i was so over it, someone reversed into me 2 months ago in my other car

just quietly aussies are smashing nz in the league

[tony1234]

either way my car is damaged only after 2 weeks,

sigh i was so over it, someone reversed into me 2 months ago in my other car

just quietly aussies are smashing nz in the league
That would really piss you off,car only 2 weeks old but what can you do.:(

[denot]

Guys, heard some rumour that there will be a massive recall on this pinging problem...

[Bobjones]

Well I would say that is a rumour at this stage, so from where is your source and how reliable is it...

[shakkas]

mmmm i somehow doubt it so soon

fingers crossed though

[SPQR]

Guys, heard some rumour that there will be a massive recall on this pinging problem...

If so, then I expect all that they can do is de-tune the engine management computer because they can't readily change the high compression ratio. Either way, customers should be able to opt for a refund if it results in a loss of power or torque.

[jbowly]

The guys name is HEINZ you can contact him through the contact page on the honda website. Here is the link...http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/Honda.com.au/Utilities/Contact+Us/

[shakkas]

i took it in my first service today and took one of the technicians for a test drive

he said it wasnt pinging cause it would be much louder and rougher but reckons its an exhaust resonanse (sp?) sound. i will get it checked at my next service

[jbowly]

It is engine pinging.. even Honda Australia recognise it is engine pinging. Dealers fob you off cause they dont know what to do. Add you voice to a long list of people who have the same problem with their 2009 Euro Auto . Go to the Honda web page and file a complaint.
The guys name is HEINZ you can contact him through the contact page on the honda website. Here is the link...http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/Honda.com.au/Utilities/Contact+Us/

[Bobjones]

I think that as the noise continues and to be honest makes me feel unsafe in a vehicle that should not make such a noise. As such I think the product is unsafe...

Accordingly, the following may be a useful link...

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/54217

Additionally, this link may also be helpful...

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/oft/oftweb.nsf/web+pages/D90F8695ECBF8F084A256B44003137D9?OpenDocument&L1=Publications

[MKI4EVA]

so just confirming again as the thread is quite long now............

NO PINGING ON MANUAL Lux?

[eur001]

so just confirming again as the thread is quite long now............

NO PINGING ON MANUAL Lux?

Not that i am aware..

[Bobjones]

Anyone have any updates, I am about to email the dealer and Honda Australia again, I am at the end of my patience, it was thin before, but now with a rattling parcel shelf and passenger side speaker, it is time that enough is enough...

[MKI4EVA]

Anyone have any updates, I am about to email the dealer and Honda Australia again, I am at the end of my patience, it was thin before, but now with a rattling parcel shelf and passenger side speaker, it is time that enough is enough...


wow.......if I didn't know better I would have thought it was thai made.

[aaronng]

Anyone have any updates, I am about to email the dealer and Honda Australia again, I am at the end of my patience, it was thin before, but now with a rattling parcel shelf and passenger side speaker, it is time that enough is enough...

Rattling parcel shelf and rattling speaker requires dynamat to deaden the vibrations. Don't think the dealer will do that for you under warranty. I have had them try to fix door rattles before and they just made it worse because each time they take the door panel off, the clips loosen up.

[eur001]

Anyone have any updates, I am about to email the dealer and Honda Australia again, I am at the end of my patience, it was thin before, but now with a rattling parcel shelf and passenger side speaker, it is time that enough is enough...

Well mate, its very sad that we have to go thru all these..damn.
What promised to be a good car, turn out even worsen than some cheaper brand. Very sad...Definately not what i expect from HONDA!!!!!!!!!

[Omotesando]

The fact that it 'rattles' at lower revs instead of mid-high revs and also it doesn't do it when going uphill at at load suggests it cannot be engine detonation.

Not sure if the CU2 owners know, but in the older Euro-Accords, there is funny metallic/watery noise coming from the air compressor of the air-con when the Temperature Control is set to anything other than the minimum or 19 degrees. It doesn't matter if the Air-con or Climate control is turned on or not, the noise is there when accelerating if that dial isn't on min or 19.

My car has that problem too and it sounds a bit like rattling metal except it doesn't have a power-cut feeling.
May be you guys should give this a try, turn down the climate control temp (even if its off) and isolate this problem first?

By the way, if the gearbox has a rattle noise, it should be much noisier when cold than when its warm. Like aarong said, if this is only happening in the Auto not the Manual, it might not be the engine. Although its hard to say if the Auto has a different mapping mode. Nowadays though, constant engine pinging is very highly unlikely. The ECU adjusts many variables from timings to fuel loads, if it pings enough it should even revert to a fail-safe mode to prevent damage. Somehow I just don't believe this is an engine issue at all.

[eur001]

Anyone have any updates, I am about to email the dealer and Honda Australia again, I am at the end of my patience, it was thin before, but now with a rattling parcel shelf and passenger side speaker, it is time that enough is enough...

My dealer called me yesterday to ask me whether the car still ping after different petrol. They also told me that Honda Australia and Honda Japan is looking after the issue now. They just asked me to wait for the solution from them. :(

[Bobjones]

Ok so are they still saying its a fuel issue???

I will drop it back to Honda to have the other issues addressed when they come up with a solution. Maybe I should email them today...

Also Ometesando, yes I have tried what you have said and also there is no power cut feeling and it DOES make the sound quite often when going up hills, well it does in my case. As it stands, the sound is VERY much like pinging and being auto where the problem appears to be compared to manual, the incorrect gear selection results in load being placed on the engine as there is no "free spinning of the engine as both gearbox and engine are continually mated", thus it "could be" a combination of issues, ie the gear selection program is not properly matched to the ecu mapping. Also as for the fail safe mode, if the noise is within specs or the knock sensor is not located well enough to pick this up that will not happen, I am yet to see a factory sensor do an exception job of knock detection...

Also re the gearbox noise being louder when warm as compared to cold, I am yet to see a gearbox issue especially in an automatic get better with warmth, the warmer gearbox fluid is more viscous and thus lends itself to increasing the chances of noise especially with regards to something that is not picked up by the magical sensors that seemed to be so overly relied on these days...

I am sure if I had the time, the facilties including a dyno I could more than likely isolate the problem, but should I...I think not.

[aaronng]

Ok so are they still saying its a fuel issue???

I will drop it back to Honda to have the other issues addressed when they come up with a solution. Maybe I should email them today...

Also Ometesando, yes I have tried what you have said and also there is no power cut feeling and it DOES make the sound quite often when going up hills, well it does in my case. As it stands, the sound is VERY much like pinging and being auto where the problem appears to be compared to manual, the incorrect gear selection results in load being placed on the engine as there is no "free spinning of the engine as both gearbox and engine are continually mated", thus it "could be" a combination of issues, ie the gear selection program is not properly matched to the ecu mapping. Also as for the fail safe mode, if the noise is within specs or the knock sensor is not located well enough to pick this up that will not happen, I am yet to see a factory sensor do an exception job of knock detection...

Also re the gearbox noise being louder when warm as compared to cold, I am yet to see a gearbox issue especially in an automatic get better with warmth, the warmer gearbox fluid is more viscous and thus lends itself to increasing the chances of noise especially with regards to something that is not picked up by the magical sensors that seemed to be so overly relied on these days...

I am sure if I had the time, the facilties including a dyno I could more than likely isolate the problem, but should I...I think not.

If you are not losing power, I really don't think it is caused by engine pinging. Because pinging comes from the mixture igniting too early, during the compression cycle. So you would feel a loss of power.

[Bobjones]

The lose of power in relation to engine pinging is marginal unless you are talking peak power knock/pinging. The only way you will notice it is on a dyno, the seat of the pants especially in a N/A car will be virtually undetectable...

And to quote a smart man...

"Pinging" is the rattling sound an engine can make when accelerating. It usually occurs when the vehicle pulls away from a stop and the engine is under a lot of load or is "lugging" This is not a normal condition or desirable condition.
Here are some common reasons for an engine to ping.

An engine can ping because the combustion process is incorrect in some way. A "spark knock" is the result of combustion occurring too early. In a properly-firing cylinder, the flame front starts on one side of the piston and burns across the top to the other side, which creates a rapid and evenly-expanding gas that pushes down on the top of the piston. When the combustion process occurs too early, there is a random explosion in multiple locations on top of the piston; when this occurs, the flame front inside the cylinder collides with itself and does not burn evenly. An ignition timing that is too far advanced from the proper specification will create a spark knock because the combustion is initiated too early.

An engine can ping because it is too hot; this is another uneven combustion scenario that is caused by the air-to-fuel mixture "lighting off" by itself. If the cooling system does not keep the engine's combustion chamber temperature in check, the air-to-fuel mixture will begin to spontaneously explode. This is also called "pre-ignition."

In addition to cooling system problems, pinging can be caused by improper gasoline octane, an overly lean air-to-fuel mixture, or a lack of proper exhaust gas recirculation. The exhaust gas recirculation system (EGR) was created to neutralize engine pinging by adding a small amount of exhaust gas to the air-to-fuel mixture going in to the combustion process, which limits the peak combustion chamber temperature.

[MKI4EVA]

Also re the gearbox noise being louder when warm as compared to cold, I am yet to see a gearbox issue especially in an automatic get better with warmth, the warmer gearbox fluid is more viscous and thus lends itself to increasing the chances of noise especially with regards to something that is not picked up by the magical sensors that seemed to be so overly relied on these days...



The lose of power in relation to engine pinging is marginal unless you are talking peak power knock/pinging. The only way you will notice it is on a dyno, the seat of the pants especially in a N/A car will be virtually undetectable...



very good points there mate...........:thumbsup:

[unity]

Rattling parcel shelf and rattling speaker requires dynamat to deaden the vibrations. Don't think the dealer will do that for you under warranty. I have had them try to fix door rattles before and they just made it worse because each time they take the door panel off, the clips loosen up.

Surely you could pay them a few dollars for some new clips and hopefully that would solve the problem. Or is it not that simple?

[aaronng]

Surely you could pay them a few dollars for some new clips and hopefully that would solve the problem. Or is it not that simple?
You can try. I just brought my car in, told them there was a door rattle, they test drove and confirmed it, took off door panel and tightened something up, returned the car and then after a few weeks, more rattles than it originally had. ;)

[unity]

You can try. I just brought my car in, told them there was a door rattle, they test drove and confirmed it, took off door panel and tightened something up, returned the car and then after a few weeks, more rattles than it originally had. ;)

I have my car in for an alignment next week. I'll ask them how much they would charge for brand new clips and will post on here when I find out.

[mr ©harisma]

You can try. I just brought my car in, told them there was a door rattle, they test drove and confirmed it, took off door panel and tightened something up, returned the car and then after a few weeks, more rattles than it originally had. ;)

You should take it off yourself. Problem is that their are cords hanging in your doors for lights, window etc and they will rattle against the trim. As you mentioned before, a $30 sheet of dynamat xtreme will stop anything from rattling as all the wiring will be stuck down. Will also improve road noise and mid bass from your mids :D

[aaronng]

They did the dynamat, but something else came loose. :p

[unity]

They did the dynamat, but something else came loose. :p

Did the dealer do the dynamat?

[aaronng]

Did the dealer do the dynamat?

Yup, there was a TSB and all they did was a narrow strip of dynamat-like material which went between the wiring and the door.

[mr ©harisma]

They did the dynamat, but something else came loose. :p

Ha that's no good dude.

With my door trims on the Bora I had them off for a couple of hours with a nice tube of silicone, foam and liquid nails. Gave it a bang and anything loose that shouldn't be got nailed. Any possible gaps where siliconed. Dynamated the door and did the same with any wires etc that where loose. Even wrapped the speaker wire in the door with foam. Even with the Sd'er, the door wires may rattle on the trim unless they are secured down.

Finished all that had them back on and it still did it, found it was the door light ( which I took out ). Bit more silicone and it was ok. My car was 5 years old when I did that ( 2001 Model ), you shouldn't really have to do it for a newish car like yours.

[Omotesando]

Ok so are they still saying its a fuel issue???

I will drop it back to Honda to have the other issues addressed when they come up with a solution. Maybe I should email them today...

Also Ometesando, yes I have tried what you have said and also there is no power cut feeling and it DOES make the sound quite often when going up hills, well it does in my case. As it stands, the sound is VERY much like pinging and being auto where the problem appears to be compared to manual, the incorrect gear selection results in load being placed on the engine as there is no "free spinning of the engine as both gearbox and engine are continually mated", thus it "could be" a combination of issues, ie the gear selection program is not properly matched to the ecu mapping. Also as for the fail safe mode, if the noise is within specs or the knock sensor is not located well enough to pick this up that will not happen, I am yet to see a factory sensor do an exception job of knock detection...

Also re the gearbox noise being louder when warm as compared to cold, I am yet to see a gearbox issue especially in an automatic get better with warmth, the warmer gearbox fluid is more viscous and thus lends itself to increasing the chances of noise especially with regards to something that is not picked up by the magical sensors that seemed to be so overly relied on these days...

I am sure if I had the time, the facilties including a dyno I could more than likely isolate the problem, but should I...I think not.

Well first of all if there is no ascertainable, seat of the pants power-cut, that is a good indication that it is not engine pinging. I disagree though that you haven't experienced Knock Sensors that do not do their job properly. How do you know, if you haven't put the car on the Dyno? In your and others case, the suspected pinging/detonation is happening at low revs. There is absolutely no way that knock sensors do not detect low-mid rpm range knocking 100% accurately. Only at about say 4000-5000rpm or above do they become a bit confused by other noise but even then, these days the redesigned filter system makes them reliable even in the higher rpms. When I was dyno tuning my performane car before, the stock Knock sensor, my PowerFC computer read-out, also on the Dyno - all correlated. So, I would recommend that you should ask Honda to pay for a Dyno session just to isolate this problem.


Also contrary to what you said, Auto gearboxes get better when warmer. The lower Viscosity of oil or in Auto Fluid's case, is because at low temperature they can flow enough to protect the moving metallic parts. At lower temps, the thinner fluid makes it susceptible for metal to contact metal with the thin film, thus creating 'clunking' noises. At normal warmer temp, the high oil viscosity is operating in its normal range, with a thicker film that protects metal from metal as it should, whereas with cold start up the emphasis is on as fast a flow of oil film as possible. Therefore it is impossible that in an auto gearbox it will make more noise when warmer. You're arguing based on your understanding of thicker viscosity at higher temp relative to colder temp, but in reality the warmer performance is the perfect viscosity at normal operating range. The only scenario I can think of when higher viscosity gearbox oil doesn't work too well in a gearbox is when it is too thick in a manual gearbox, where the synchros makes it hard to compress the oil film and change into another gear.

I honestly think you should put it on a dyno to make sure if it is even pinging or not, as it is fairly conclusive plus there are manual microphone equipment (not knock sensor) that can confirm it further. Its only around $100-120 and on dyno days its barely $50-70! :D

[aaronng]

Oils get thinner when warmed up.

[Omotesando]

Oils get thinner when warmed up.

That isn't what I meant at all.

With the Multigrade oil that we use today, the Viscosity rating is self adjusted for different operating temperatures. Compared to an SAE Grade oil, which as you said gets thinner when warmed, with the Multi-grade especially synthetic oils with wide-ranging Winter vs Warm rating (eg. 5W-40), the oil's specification ensures that it adjusts itself thin enough for cold start up, whereas instead of thinning it will thicken up enough relatively to still keep protecting the metal.

[aaronng]

That isn't what I meant at all.

With the Multigrade oil that we use today, the Viscosity rating is self adjusted for different operating temperatures. Compared to an SAE Grade oil, which as you said gets thinner when warmed, with the Multi-grade especially synthetic oils with wide-ranging Winter vs Warm rating (eg. 5W-40), the oil's specification ensures that it adjusts itself thin enough for cold start up, whereas instead of thinning it will thicken up enough relatively to still keep protecting the metal.

For a 5w-40 oil, it is still thicker at 5 at -18C than it is at 40 at 100C. The ratings show that it has the same viscosity as a SAE5 oil at -18C and SAE40 oil at 100C.

My oil pressure gauge reads high when cold, and low when warm for the same idle RPM, which means the oil thins out as the temperature increases.

[integral90]

Is there any specific gear that the sound is more noticable in?

[Bobjones]

Well first of all if there is no ascertainable, seat of the pants power-cut, that is a good indication that it is not engine pinging. I disagree though that you haven't experienced Knock Sensors that do not do their job properly. How do you know, if you haven't put the car on the Dyno? In your and others case, the suspected pinging/detonation is happening at low revs. There is absolutely no way that knock sensors do not detect low-mid rpm range knocking 100% accurately. Only at about say 4000-5000rpm or above do they become a bit confused by other noise but even then, these days the redesigned filter system makes them reliable even in the higher rpms. When I was dyno tuning my performane car before, the stock Knock sensor, my PowerFC computer read-out, also on the Dyno - all correlated. So, I would recommend that you should ask Honda to pay for a Dyno session just to isolate this problem.


Also contrary to what you said, Auto gearboxes get better when warmer. The lower Viscosity of oil or in Auto Fluid's case, is because at low temperature they can flow enough to protect the moving metallic parts. At lower temps, the thinner fluid makes it susceptible for metal to contact metal with the thin film, thus creating 'clunking' noises. At normal warmer temp, the high oil viscosity is operating in its normal range, with a thicker film that protects metal from metal as it should, whereas with cold start up the emphasis is on as fast a flow of oil film as possible. Therefore it is impossible that in an auto gearbox it will make more noise when warmer. You're arguing based on your understanding of thicker viscosity at higher temp relative to colder temp, but in reality the warmer performance is the perfect viscosity at normal operating range. The only scenario I can think of when higher viscosity gearbox oil doesn't work too well in a gearbox is when it is too thick in a manual gearbox, where the synchros makes it hard to compress the oil film and change into another gear.

I honestly think you should put it on a dyno to make sure if it is even pinging or not, as it is fairly conclusive plus there are manual microphone equipment (not knock sensor) that can confirm it further. Its only around $100-120 and on dyno days its barely $50-70! :D


I think we will agree to disagree. I have access to a dyno, and a very competitent workshop including people whom build some of the fastest cars in the world. For example, our track car makes near on 400awkw, plus I have been building engines with my dad since I was about 6, though they were V8's and have also done a few manual to auto conversions for drag purposes in my time. Plus my last engine was an RB25DET that produced about 300rwkw, and NO KNOCK ON A PLUG AND PLAY TUNE, let alone a multi-million dollar company whom have/should have tested these things at length. And again, why the hell should I spend my time on a dyno when Honda should have done this already...

And, if you knew anything about knock, then you would know that factory sensors are not capable of 100% detection as you claim. That is just plain stupid and arrogant and completely misleading to anyone reading this thread.

You are also comparing manual and automatic gearbox's in your comments above, unless for some reason auto's now have syncros...:p Comparing the operation of these is like comparing a lemon to a strawberry, they operate differently, they have different inherent characteristics and have different inherent weaknesses and problems.

And last time I checked, engine and gearbox oils get thinner when warmer...with respect to start up and cold oils, yes these do not flow as well as when warmer, however, should clearances not be to the level they should, when the warmer oil in either gearbox or engine purposes, the misalgnment or incorrect clearances become more evident. For example, old engines usually where the valve guides, in order to decrease oil burn people use a thicker oil to reduce the likelihood of oil ingestion through the valve guides, same principle. Also, oil ingestion can cause knock, as it significantly lowers the in cylinder octane level. Further, poor clearances, which are built into other engines, reduce the chance of knock on lean mixtures, whereas tight or low clearance engines, such as what Honda build, are more susceptible to knock on lean mixtures or where other factors such as incorrect gearing come into play.

[Bobjones]

For a 5w-40 oil, it is still thicker at 5 at -18C than it is at 40 at 100C. The ratings show that it has the same viscosity as a SAE5 oil at -18C and SAE40 oil at 100C.

My oil pressure gauge reads high when cold, and low when warm for the same idle RPM, which means the oil thins out as the temperature increases.

Correct aarong. You will also find, that an engine with tight clearances, will read higher oil pressure than an engine built with less attention to tolerances such as a Holden engine...(this is obvoiously with the same oil...)

[jbowly]

I have had another call from Heinz at Honda Australia, they are working on the problem in conjunction with Honda Japan but still cannot provide me with a definitive time for a solution. They however, stand behind their product, which I have requested in writing.

I got contacted by the same guy(heinz) and no I dont think you will get anything in writing. I think this kind of communication is a stall manouvre,
but let me know if you hear anything more about this issue. We all paid good money for this vehicle and they are treating us like SH......

[EH VTi]

I have a 09 Euro Auto and don't have this 'pinging' noise that most of you are talking about. .. So far we have done 3500km and to be honest I couldn't be happier with the car.

I know it seems like Honda are drawing out the process but unfortunatly developing solutions to problems takes time.

Firstly they need enough examples to identify a pattern in the problem. It may reveal that the problems are only occuring between build dates X and Y or only Auto's...

Once they can establish a patterm they can look at the manufacturing processes within those dates to see if something had changed (parts supplier, software revision etc).....

In todays vehicles we shouldn't hear pinging because as soon as the knock sensor detects knock frequencies the ECU should be reducing the timing which will remove the knock.... It just concerns me that you guys can hear it and it is getting worse. To me it seems that the Knock Sensor isn't doing its job or it is something else that is making the noise.

Given that the engine is a carryover from the previous model I would imagine the knock setup is the same..

Am really curious to see what Honda do to fix your problems..

[boleh]

For a 5w-40 oil, it is still thicker at 5 at -18C than it is at 40 at 100C. The ratings show that it has the same viscosity as a SAE5 oil at -18C and SAE40 oil at 100C.

My oil pressure gauge reads high when cold, and low when warm for the same idle RPM, which means the oil thins out as the temperature increases.

it should be thicker when temperature rises as someone has mentioned.. tahts the whole idea of multigrade oil. this property does deteriorate over time and tthats when it needs changing

not too sure on the 2nd bit abt ur oil pressure gauge..

[aaronng]

it should be thicker when temperature rises as someone has mentioned.. tahts the whole idea of multigrade oil. this property does deteriorate over time and tthats when it needs changing

not too sure on the 2nd bit abt ur oil pressure gauge..
Nope, multigrade oil just means that it can perform like a SAE5 oil at -18C and SAE40 oil at 100C. It doesn't mean that it thickens when the temperature increases. If it thickens when the temperature increases, then why do you run you engine to warm the oil up before you drain it out when changing engine oil? :)

[imo]

I've got a 09 Lux Auto with 650k on the clock and have not had this pinging issue yet. I'm using 95.

Keep at the dealer mate and good luck resolving the issue.

[Bobjones]

I got contacted by the same guy(heinz) and no I dont think you will get anything in writing. I think this kind of communication is a stall manouvre,
but let me know if you hear anything more about this issue. We all paid good money for this vehicle and they are treating us like SH......

I have in writing that they guarantee for life the engine and gearbox as long as I own the car. But that does not solve this issue nor the rattle in the parcel shelf, that exibits from going over bumps and nothing to do with the stereo or bass...

[rusty]

I've got a 09 Lux Auto with 650k on the clock and have not had this pinging issue yet. I'm using 95.

Keep at the dealer mate and good luck resolving the issue.

when is your build date? Maybe this is related to some faulty component prior to your build date. Those of you who get this problem, could you also check your build date?

[LoniJ]

We have also experienced the pinging with our new Accord Euro Auto. We have had it back to our dealer twice now, the last time they reset the computer but the problem is still occuring and they still can't give us an answer.
We have only ever used Premium Unleaded (98 and 95) from Shell and BP.

If anyone has any updates I would be grateful. We are currently seeking warranty in writing beyond the 3 yr standard as we are concerned about the damage this could be doing to our vehicle. The car has now done 5,500 kms.

[SPQR]

Have any of you with the pinging problem actually made a complaint to the ACCC? If they get enough of them they might force Honda to act.

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/54217#h2_38

[stik79]

1200Km's here (09 Lux) - still no pinging

a) an annoying rattle from the little silver insert on the drinks cover in the center console which is damn annoying (better fix @ 1000k service tomorrow)

b) boot doesn't want to catch unless really slammed - assume just an adjustment issue.

Beyond those two - all good

Build Date is: No idea - couldn't find a plate or anything in the engine bay?!:eek:

[aaronng]

b) boot doesn't want to catch unless really slammed - assume just an adjustment issue.

Just adjust the rubber stopper on the boot. Turn it clockwise a half turn on each side and the boot will close easier.

[stik79]

OK found out my build date - 18/07/08 (was on service summary page ;))

[Bobjones]

My biuld date is June 2008...and rattles like a ghost with chains...

[EH VTi]

Mine is a July 08 build,(couldn't find a day) and no pining, no rattles no nothing...

Curious to see when other build dates were..

[eur001]

My is 05 2008

[boleh]

Nope, multigrade oil just means that it can perform like a SAE5 oil at -18C and SAE40 oil at 100C. It doesn't mean that it thickens when the temperature increases. If it thickens when the temperature increases, then why do you run you engine to warm the oil up before you drain it out when changing engine oil? :)

Look buddy... see my pic and u know what a serious person I am and it shows I know what I am talking about.

Thickness = Viscosity

SAE40 more viscous than 5.

[asimo]

Mine is a July 08 build,(couldn't find a day) and no pining, no rattles no nothing...

Curious to see when other build dates were..

Mine is also a July 08, CU2 Lxry auto. 2300k on the clock.
I only use RON 98.
It has a slight 'lumpy steering' problem to the right. (hope it goes away?...)

No pinging though. But...
The acceleration is slower than normal (well, slightly better than a shopping trolley).
Could it be than Honda have decided to tune down their engines to 'mask' the pinging problem ?!

I used to drive a 2003 CL9, and the acceleration on that one (no mods) was constantly drawing remarks from my friends!

The engine is CU2, supposedly an improvement, more power, more compression, and even after taking into account the 100 or so more kilos that the CU2 has, it should not have such a noticeably slower acceleration !

On the CU2, you floor it and nothing happens! I cannot spin the wheels from a stand still, with the VSA and A/C off, in any setting (D,S, man shifting or not)
And what the #$%@ is the deal with the kick down shift button behind the accelerator pedal ?!
If the car was tuned properly, there would not be a need for one... any other cars have this ?....

Anyone has a similar experience with their new CU2 ?

[aaronng]

Look buddy... see my pic and u know what a serious person I am and it shows I know what I am talking about.

Thickness = Viscosity

SAE40 more viscous than 5.

I can't believed I missed your post. :p
And no, you are not right. SAE5 at -18 ºC is thicker/more viscous than SAE40 at 100 ºC

[Accord Basic]

I agree with aarong, oil only going thinner with temp is up bcos the molacul of the oil heat up and have more energy to move and more space between. Then the oil bcom thinner. This is my first time to heard that oil get thicker with temperautre go up. not make sense. Thanks

[chris41]

May08 build Euro Standard 6MT. (BP Ultimate98 fuel always)
I had a reply from Heinz at Honda Aust and he said the ping is an aknowledged problem, does not appear to be a answer currently but to
drop the car back at the dealer to check if its anything else.
Other than that Im extremely satisfied with the vehicle.

[tritty]

May 08 Build Auto 8000kms..............No pinging for me..........

[ok2]

Hmm, interesting post over at Acurazine TSX forum in a thread about the same problem the US TSX owners who are having the same issue (Acura TSX is the US version of our Accord Euro). It's from someone who goes by the name of "Acura Cert MASTER TECH". Past posts from him seem to back up that name and are useful and informative.

"I quickly read through all these posts, and just wanted to give you a heads up that Acura IS fully aware of this noise.

We had a guy in at work three times for this noise, and were finally able to duplicate it on the third time. I've been able to make it happen pretty much on demand on a flat/slight incline road, in SS mode in 2nd gear, going between 20-25 mph, with my other foot on the brake slighty. (Holy run on sentence, sorry). I drove two other 09 TSXs, and was able to get the same noise to happen, just not as loudly.

The customer's TSX had close to 10,000 miles on it, the other two that I compared to had 4 miles, and about 1000 miles."

There is more so follow link and scroll down to post #72

http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=684180&page=2

[boleh]

I agree with aarong, oil only going thinner with temp is up bcos the molacul of the oil heat up and have more energy to move and more space between. Then the oil bcom thinner. This is my first time to heard that oil get thicker with temperautre go up. not make sense. Thanks

what is molacul?

[aiball]

i think he means 'molecule'

[Type R Positive]

what is molacul?
Yeah, I gave up after the first line. :zip:

[SPQR]

It's a combination of the word "Mola", which is a latin word for "millstone" and "cul" which the latin word for bum. So there you have it! It's a "millstone bum".

[snajper]

Hi Guys,

I am taking my 08 non Euro accord back to the dealer next week for the same issue. My engine is also pinging but a lot less with BP Ulitmate. With unleaded 91 it pings all the time, but with 98 randomly only few times a day.

Has anyone managed to resolve the issue?

[stik79]

[edit] Brain fart - non euro - ignore me ;)

[lovesil]

Can anyone advise what's the status of the pinging or gearbox issue?? Has Honda come up with any form of solution yet?

[Type R Positive]

Nothing yet.

[nickxau]

Hi Guys,

I am taking my 08 non Euro accord back to the dealer next week for the same issue. My engine is also pinging but a lot less with BP Ulitmate. With unleaded 91 it pings all the time, but with 98 randomly only few times a day.

Has anyone managed to resolve the issue?

ummm... I believe you WILL get pinging all the time if you use 91RON fuel coz the engine was designed to run on 95RON minimum?

[stik79]

ummm... I believe you WILL get pinging all the time if you use 91RON fuel coz the engine was designed to run on 95RON minimum?

that's the reply I wrote before I realised he said "non euro"

[kenske]

i went to a mechanic today and he told me the pinging noise is due to the fact that the octane levels in the petrol or whatever were too low. so he told me to go fill up using premium unleaded or the more expensive "good" petrol. I'm gonna try this out when i fill up my car 2moro, hopefully there wont be any pinging anymore... im driving an EK1 99 so might be a different problem... lol

[snajper]

One thing that bothers me is that I am using 98RON instead of 91RON (recommended for NON euro accord) and it still pings.

[Bobjones]

I have taken the car to our workshop that builds our race engines etc and they believe that it is not pinging but more likely to be the timing chain tensioner, which on Honda's is hydraulic. It happens more often than not on take off due to the timing chain going from a "slack" state at idle, to tensioned state upon acceleration, and possibly due to light acceleration there is insufficient oil pressure to have the tensioner work correctly. This is also the case in reverse when you accelerate, and then the transmission in the auto's changes up a gear when you have backed off from acceleration and the chain goes from a "tight or tensioned state" to a relatively "slack" state as the engine revs drop. Additionally, upon HIGH rpm, possibly due to a fault in the tensioner, it is unable to maintain tension at high RPM thus resulting in a similar but not as constant or audible at higher RPM.

Now please remember this is from a knowledgable source, but must disclaim that this is only from driving around in the car, as in 3 mechanics all in the car and taking turns driving, the engine has not been touched, in fact the bonnet was only opened to see if there was a timing chain only cover which there is not. Due to the way Honda are playing games no one but Honda will touch anything under the bonnet due to their fine print with all warranties.

I am going into Honda Service tomorrow to get the parcel shelf re-fixed, despite being inconvenienced again I cannot get a loan car cause they are all booked, so more time off and not making money, in the end this car has cost me alot of time and mental anguish.

EDIT: the car has ALWAYS been run on 98 Ron either BP Ultimate or Shell V-Power, but I fail to see why I should run this when it was "designed" for 95-Ron, piss poor effort by Honda and I have vowed never to buy another Honda product, not even a generator...

[stik79]

hmmm my parcel shelf has developed a combination of what sounds like someone rapidly flicking it to creaking under body load :S strangely if it gets hot enough it wont do it so I assume a spot weld has come appart somewhere and with heat the two pieces of metal wherever they are expand to the point where they fit together again :S

Same thing bob?

I agree with the timing belt tensioner theory as it sounds to me to come from the front of the engine (I've only caught it 2-3 times in 5000k's now :S) (although can't figure why it would apply to the auto only - unless the extra hydraulic load of an auto affects the pressure in that tensioner?)

[Bobjones]

Yeah rear parcel shelf if a loose spot weld, they fixed it once...and low and behold it is back. Its a reported problem I believe and well known, but my dealer needed to but someone in the boot to find it for about half an hour they say...but it took me all of 5 minutes...if you look up technician as they like to be called, the subtext is "unqualified monkeys" which most of them are...

[lovesil]

Bobjones: If your source's correct, a change of timing chain tensioner will fix the problem?? Can this be advised to Honda for them to take it into consideration??

[OZEuromania]

I got a call from Ken, Honda Australia, last Friday, I think several of you also contacted him before, and was told there will be a fix coming late of Feb.

He also told me my dealer will call me by then and arrange it.

So don't worry guys, they finally come to a solution and our euro is getting perfect.....

[Bobjones]

The problem "lovesil" is that this has NOT been diagnosed by pulling anything off the engine and has only been done by listening and driving the car by someone with a minimum of 10 years experience building race engines (that include Honda engines). Thus it is neither definitive nor 100% possible that this is the only cause and thus a 100% solution is unkown. I just took it to them to reduce my fear of the engine ceasing at highway speeds resulting in either an accident or destruction of the entire driveline whcih could result in injury.

You can say what you want to Honda, the dealers especially have NFI, but until THEY diagnose the problem and THEY come up with a solution, there will not be one and YOU have to sit there an live with it. Maybe they should hire some of those F1 guys that are not doing much to fix it or atleast help with quality control???

[Bobjones]

OZEuromania, do you have this in writing, as unfortunately I will believe it when I see it. Late February would be fine, but I have my doubts...

[OZEuromania]

OZEuromania, do you have this in writing, as unfortunately I will believe it when I see it. Late February would be fine, but I have my doubts...

Yes, I agree, but I think you can give him a call if you want it in writing. I probably would do that as well when I get back from leave overseas...

[bk212]

Guys, fyi I have had a CU2 auto Lux since July 2008 and currently have approx 14,000km on the clock. I have been to Honda several times with this noise. Same response as others - there is a noise, Honda are aware of it and are working on a fix. I have emailed and lettered Honda Australia today to ensure I am on their radar if and when a fix arrives. I copied it to the service manager at Honda North, who have had a few attempts at fixing it. Will let you know if I get any response.

[kenske]

Hey, i went to shell and filled up a full tank of "V-power" type fuel and the pinging noise is almost all gone (had a little bit at 5th gear). Might have to let the petrol filter all the way through for it to be pingless.

"unleaded petrol only" my a55

[snajper]

The only smart thing to do is to fill up with 98RON fuel until they come up with the solution.

[Bobjones]

I just keeping using 98ron, probably cause that is what I always use. Its back at the dealer today getting the other issues fixed. I just keep mentioning the engine rattles still...

[bk212]

Service manager at the dealer emailed me back today:

"I will inform you as soon as we have a solution from Honda, hopefully towards end of February".

[shakkas]

dropping my car in tomorrow

fingers crossed they find out what my rattling sound is and can repair...

[DBH]

Well, the 09 Euro has just been awarded Wheels car of the year.............................................. ........................

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/wheels/site/articleIDs/95E4BCB0DB0AEBC5CA257544001C6397?open&template=domWheels

[SPQR]

Well, the 09 Euro has just been awarded Wheels car of the year.............................................. ........................


Pinging hell! Really? I thought Wheels was due out next week. That's a rattling surprise!

[EUR003act]

I have a new 2009 luxury Euro.

welcome to honda, sorry to hear about your problem... but please read the sticky at the start of the euro page and next time place [CU2] infront of your threads... thankyou :D

[VIDSEURO]

G'Day Guys.

1.Please take your Euro to your dealer first.
2.Then submit your concern through the Honda Web site using your (VIN)

The content of th email was promising and hopeful.

I have spoken to Mr. Ken Sheppard on Friday 23/1/09 on mobile.
he also sent this e-mail to me.

Further to our phone conversation relating to the operational sound in your Honda Accord Euro, we wish to advise the following.

As you are aware the condition with your vehicle has not been assessed by the dealer as yet and therefore we are unable to confirm whether or not the condition you are experiencing is similar to some isolated reports we have received previously.

These reports are in regard to an engine operational sound, which is linked to fuel quality/specification and the electronic emissions management system, has been confirm to be from a combustion sound taking place after the programmed ignition, namely a “post combustion noise”.

As this condition takes place after the programmed ignition and with the piston on its downward stroke, there is no detrimental force or impact within the engine in your vehicle.

We appreciate this sound causes concern to some owners and as a result Honda Motors has been working on the matter and anticipates we will have a revised management program available for customer vehicles around mid to late February.

Regards
HONDA AUSTRALIA PTY LTD


Ken Sheppard
Client Relations Specialist
Customer Services

Also if you are running in your car remember to give it some.
The Euro engine will most likely loosen up after a few thounsand clicks.
With mine it all comes together nicely at 4,000RPM____ Yooo Mama...
That's why i bought the bloody thing.

Anyhow i sincerely wish all of you the very best and try not to let it kill
you through worry.

Cheers an Beers

[SPQR]

^^^ See my post in the following thread:

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98181&page=5

[lousli]

It doesnt make sence, why isn't it happening to Manual owners? Its the same engine lol! :p

Perhaps the auto gearbox isnt aligned/mounted properly and causing a imbalance through the crank. (/random guess)

This IS happening to manual owners. My wife and I both have 09 TSX's with manyal gearboxes (Canada) and they both ping while hard accelerating in any gear as soon as you hit about 3800. They also had to replace the oild pump in my wifes car for excessive whistling sound. That took seven months to diagnose and repair.

[chris41]

May08 build Euro Standard 6MT. (BP Ultimate98 fuel always)

Thought Id just report that under same driving conditions with 98fuel, the 'ping-like' sound seems less frequent recently, the Euro is now approaching 4000kms. Will be interesting to see the Honda fix for this problem which has recently been reported as a 'post ignition' sound.

[VIDSEURO]

May08 build Euro Standard 6MT. (BP Ultimate98 fuel always)

Thought Id just report that under same driving conditions with 98fuel, the 'ping-like' sound seems less frequent recently, the Euro is now approaching 4000kms. Will be interesting to see the Honda fix for this problem which has recently been reported as a 'post ignition' sound.

Thanks Chris

My Euro was looked at by the HTO (head tech officer) at Capital Honda canberra.
He heard the noise.
Yes Honda Australia is waiting for a correction at the end of February.
Im very happy with the car and im hopeful this will be resolved in due time.
Unfortunately it has caused worry / anxiety to those owners who have this issue.

[djg]

First time writing on this site. Interesting reading this thread.

Purchased my 09 Euro in July 08 - auto.

Pinging or rattling type sound developed within a 1 or 2 thousand klms. Currently nearly 8,000 klms & problem seems to be be less frequent but still there! Not sure if the engine loosening up abit is helping things.

I use Shell V-Power normally & sound is occuring around the 2 to 3 thousand rev mark. Does occur more under load (as mentioned by others) & more when colder or after a restart when already warm, then problem eases with driving somewhat.

Up for 10k service this month & will definitely raise the concern with the service centre & report anything back of use. When I raised it briefly last time the guy at the service centre tried to tell me it was the v-tec or variable cam that causes some rattle???? Not sure of that.

Also had a tinny rattle develop in the rear seat / shelf area (as previously mentioned by someone), twice, but was repaired by Honda x2, by pulling apart & realigning the rear seat supports - at least that is what I was told. If it happens again I will insist on a more permanent repair.

Someone commented on slow acceleration on their model. I noted this also but again, as the klms have been done the performance has picked up. Possibly again due to the engine loosening up abit. Given the weight of this car & being a revvy 4 cyl, the paddles & 's' mode do get some working as the useful power of the engine is higher up the rev range!

Just some observations that might be of interest.

Otherwise happy with car. Just didn't expect Jap built Honda to have problems such as these & those mentioned by others.

[Type R Positive]

Also had a tinny rattle develop in the rear seat / shelf area (as previously mentioned by someone), twice, but was repaired by Honda x2, by pulling apart & realigning the rear seat supports - at least that is what I was told. If it happens again I will insist on a more permanent repair. http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=698636 :thumbsup:

[VIDSEURO]

First time writing on this site. Interesting reading this thread.

Purchased my 09 Euro in July 08 - auto.

Pinging or rattling type sound developed within a 1 or 2 thousand klms. Currently nearly 8,000 klms & problem seems to be be less frequent but still there! Not sure if the engine loosening up abit is helping things.

I use Shell V-Power normally & sound is occuring around the 2 to 3 thousand rev mark. Does occur more under load (as mentioned by others) & more when colder or after a restart when already warm, then problem eases with driving somewhat.

Up for 10k service this month & will definitely raise the concern with the service centre & report anything back of use. When I raised it briefly last time the guy at the service centre tried to tell me it was the v-tec or variable cam that causes some rattle???? Not sure of that.

Also had a tinny rattle develop in the rear seat / shelf area (as previously mentioned by someone), twice, but was repaired by Honda x2, by pulling apart & realigning the rear seat supports - at least that is what I was told. If it happens again I will insist on a more permanent repair.

Someone commented on slow acceleration on their model. I noted this also but again, as the klms have been done the performance has picked up. Possibly again due to the engine loosening up abit. Given the weight of this car & being a revvy 4 cyl, the paddles & 's' mode do get some working as the useful power of the engine is higher up the rev range!

Just some observations that might be of interest.

Otherwise happy with car. Just didn't expect Jap built Honda to have problems such as these & those mentioned by others.

Hi Djg

please read the following.

1.Please take your Euro to your dealer first.
2.Then submit your concern through the Honda Web site using your (VIN)

I have spoken to Mr. Ken Sheppard on Friday 23/1/09 on mobile.
he also sent this e-mail to me.

Further to our phone conversation relating to the operational sound in your Honda Accord Euro, we wish to advise the following.

As you are aware the condition with your vehicle has not been assessed by the dealer as yet and therefore we are unable to confirm whether or not the condition you are experiencing is similar to some isolated reports we have received previously.

These reports are in regard to an engine operational sound, which is linked to fuel quality/specification and the electronic emissions management system, has been confirm to be from a combustion sound taking place after the programmed ignition, namely a “post combustion noise”.

As this condition takes place after the programmed ignition and with the piston on its downward stroke, there is no detrimental force or impact within the engine in your vehicle.

We appreciate this sound causes concern to some owners and as a result Honda Motors has been working on the matter and anticipates we will have a revised management program available for customer vehicles around mid to late February.

Regards
HONDA AUSTRALIA PTY LTD


Ken Sheppard
Client Relations Specialist
Customer Services
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Also if you are running in your car remember to give it some.

The Euro engine will most likely loosen up after a few thounsand clicks.
With mine it all comes together nicely at 4,000RPM____ Yooo Mama...
That's why i bought the bloody thing.

Anyhow i sincerely wish all of you the very best and try not to let it kill
you through worry.

Cheers an Beers
__________________
Thanks
Vid

[Bobjones]

I was contacted by my Dealer yesterday to let me know that a "software upgrade" is on its way from Honda Japan, and that I would be contacted again early March to have the problem rectified.

Glad my dealer is on the ball, seems Honda Australia and our best mate Heinz should take a permanent holiday...

And Vidseuro, I think you need to get in a fast car if you think this goes like a cut snake above 4,000rpm....

[VIDSEURO]

I was contacted by my Dealer yesterday to let me know that a "software upgrade" is on its way from Honda Japan, and that I would be contacted again early March to have the problem rectified.

Glad my dealer is on the ball, seems Honda Australia and our best mate Heinz should take a permanent holiday...

And Vidseuro, I think you need to get in a fast car if you think this goes like a cut snake above 4,000rpm....


Hi Bob

Most likely a new computer or software upgrade will be offered by Honda.
Lets hope it does the job.
The Euro produces its best power from 4,000 rpm, maybe your'e experience is different to mine.
My car has 2,500 on the clock so most likely by 8,000km's the engine will
loosen up like a sun parched drover who's had 9 beers and cant find his horse.

[Bobjones]

Hi Bob

Most likely a new computer or software upgrade will be offered by Honda.
Lets hope it does the job.
The Euro produces its best power from 4,000 rpm, maybe your'e experience is different to mine.
My car has 2,500 on the clock so most likely by 8,000km's the engine will
loosen up like a sun parched drover who's had 9 beers and cant find his horse.

I was being sarcastic, an upgrade would result in more power, better economy etc, this is a fix, nothing more, thus calling it an upgrade is an oxymoron.

Also re the power, N/A car's have none, granted the Honda is efficient, its no 400awkw Evo, the Euro far from makes me scream with excitement, it goes from A-B...

[VIDSEURO]

I was being sarcastic, an upgrade would result in more power, better economy etc, this is a fix, nothing more, thus calling it an upgrade is an oxymoron.

Also re the power, N/A car's have none, granted the Honda is efficient, its no 400awkw Evo, the Euro far from makes me scream with excitement, it goes from A-B...

No worries Bob

Mate the Euro although it has 148Kw in power it's used to haul the extra weight the car has gained from the previous model.
Anyhow it has that x factor, externally and internally, definitely not a boring car to look at, i catch myself having a peek when i go shopping.
Possibly im slightly vain, either way who cares.
being happy is what matters to me, so i figured i could be in a Honda.
And you know im right...

[SteveH]

I was being sarcastic, an upgrade would result in more power, better economy etc, this is a fix, nothing more, thus calling it an upgrade is an oxymoron.

Also re the power, N/A car's have none, granted the Honda is efficient, its no 400awkw Evo, the Euro far from makes me scream with excitement, it goes from A-B...

Bob, I've been in a standard Evo 9 and it was well and truly quick enough for me. Couldn't imagine what it would be like with more than double the power. :eek:

[denot]

^^^ just a quick question...

Just realise that my civic sports auto has weight to power ratio of 1:11.35, while the euro std auto has 1:10.5.

Does this means the euro std auto will be slower than civic sports? :eek:

[chris41]

I believe the Euro Standard 6MTs 0-100 time to be 7.8secs and the auto version is in the 8s, from memory the Civic Sport MT does a high 8. I purchased the Euro but considered the CivicSport also.

[denot]

^^^ just a quick question...

Just realise that my civic sports auto has weight to power ratio of 1:11.35, while the euro std auto has 1:10.5.

Does this means the euro std auto will be slower than civic sports? :eek:

WHOOPSSS ignore this... its obviously shown that Euro std auto is faster :p

[Euro_CU2]

Either im deaf of the pinging sound you's are talking is hardly noticeable to me...
Maybe its just me.

[tqt]

any news guys about this problem from HONDA AUSTRALIA PTY LTD?

[thewizzrd]

Hi all, first post.
Have had the pinging issue since I picked up my Euro in late november.
I have just come back from Astoria Honda. Thay have confirmed a software update will be available first week of March. Waiting for approval since it "changes the aspects of the car since it's arrival into Australia", this from the service manager at Astoria Honda.

[chris41]

Thanks for the update, do you know if owners will be contacted to bring the cars back (re-call style) or if it will just be completed at the next scheduled service?

[thewizzrd]

They did say they will contact me when the software update is ready.
I don't think they will contact anyone else if they are not aware of a pinging problem with the car.
Make sure you tell them and to put your name down on the list.

[chris41]

Will do, Im sure if its not damaging as such they can just upload the date next time the cars serviced, cheers.

[aaronng]

I just read on the US TSX forums that some guy was told by Acura that the pinging was the fuel burning in the exhaust manifold. The fix is supposedly an ECU software update, which is yet to be released.

[denot]

I just read on the US TSX forums that some guy was told by Acura that the pinging was the fuel burning in the exhaust manifold. The fix is supposedly an ECU software update, which is yet to be released.

hmm thats why when I read the word "change the aspect of the car", I think the software update will be a big one...

[MKI4EVA]

how much power gain : ).

[chris41]

lets hope a power gain and not a loss. :)

[denot]

^^^ the worst always come up first on my mind :(

[MiSloVic]

Now.. 'changes aspects of the car'.. 'Fuel burning in the exhaust'.. What can the change be? Afterburner! I am sure that will break a few $35k production sedan car speed records:)

[SPQR]

Hi all, first post.
Have had the pinging issue since I picked up my Euro in late november.
I have just come back from Astoria Honda. Thay have confirmed a software update will be available first week of March. Waiting for approval since it "changes the aspects of the car since it's arrival into Australia", this from the service manager at Astoria Honda.

This is Honda speak that would indicate that the approval is required because it will change the advertised power/torque of the car for the worse.

[Joystick]

This is Honda speak that would indicate that the approval is required because it will change the advertised power/torque of the car for the worse.

Interesting, does that mean you can return the car if figures are changed because it's not what you paid for? Based on the vehicle no longer meets your requirements....

[denot]

Interesting, does that mean you can return the car if figures are changed because it's not what you paid for? Based on the vehicle no longer meets your requirements....

It would be nice if we can... but eventhough if there's power decrease, will they tell us? how do we now if we dont dyno it after the updates? :(

[Joystick]

Apart from dynoing the only way to know if all new models come with the new computer upgrade and the specs are adjusted on the specs of the Euro to inform new buyers.

[SPQR]

It would be nice if we can... but eventhough if there's power decrease, will they tell us? how do we now if we dont dyno it after the updates? :(


Apart from dynoing the only way to know if all new models come with the new computer upgrade and the specs are adjusted on the specs of the Euro to inform new buyers.


Honda wouldn't risk a come-back like that. As Denot suggested, they won't tell you if there will be a power/torque decrease and as Joystick suggested, a "new" update model car and specification would probably be released with lower quoted figures for new buyers.

[djg]

Can confirm similar story as for Bobjones & Thewizzrd. Blair Honda has advised of a fix available early next month. You have to give yr details to them so they are aware you have the problem & presumably they'll contact us??

Will be asking what the effect of the fix will have on power figures. Whether I get any honest answer is anyone's guess.

[eur001]

Can confirm similar story as for Bobjones & Thewizzrd. Blair Honda has advised of a fix available early next month. You have to give yr details to them so they are aware you have the problem & presumably they'll contact us??

Will be asking what the effect of the fix will have on power figures. Whether I get any honest answer is anyone's guess.

Well...i think whoever is getting the update, have to ask that question and try to get some "black and white" from honda. Example, if they said no power is lost, then get them to put down in writing if possible. That might be your most powerful evidence in the future if you realise your car is not as powerful as before!
I am not sure whether they will give you, but i definately will try. And as a customer, its my right to ask "what happen to my car after the update"!

[primetimex]

Not sure if the CU2 owners know, but in the older Euro-Accords, there is funny metallic/watery noise coming from the air compressor of the air-con when the Temperature Control is set to anything other than the minimum or 19 degrees.

Hey there Omotesando - I remember this problem it was there in my 2006 Euro - there's a small metallic noise / watery trickling noise from the aircon. This in the 2003 was a "groaning" A/C due to a faulty / noisy TX valve. Drove me mad enough to sell both cars for a Nissan 350Z - which never rattled despite the stiff suspension etc as u would know for a car of that calibre.

Now I'm about to buy a 2009 Euro Luxury Auto - to be delivered April 2009. Should I be concerned about this pinging noise - if yes I'll get on the hornblower to my sales consultant / dealer ASAP!!!

PS: I never did hear this "pinging" noise or any rattles for that matter on my 2 x test drives with the Accord Euro Base Auto and Euro Lux Auto. So I'm getting a bit concerned now!

[nickxau]

SURPRISE!!! The luxury navi that I test drove didn't have the pining noise either but the base model that I bought? Started pinging as soon as I drove away from the dealership!? :(

I'm trying to collect data and analyse the pinging issue HERE (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107974) but unfortunately there's not enough data to produce an accurate representation to the issue but from what I've gathered, it seems like it mainly exists in AT cars and the earlier builds circa May, June & July 2008 builds (with the exception of chikaboom with his MT 08/2008 build). :confused:

Hope this helps with your buying decision.

[Sludge]

This is Honda speak that would indicate that the approval is required because it will change the advertised power/torque of the car for the worse.

I think you might be jumping the gun a bit there.

Any change to the ECU would have the potential to change the engines emission and I would think would need regulatory approval.

Wouldn't this be the approval they are talking of?

Anyway I have my six month service this Wednesday so I'll see what the service manager has to say.

[Joystick]

You have the 'pinging' issue as well Sludge? :(

[SPQR]

I think you might be jumping the gun a bit there.

Any change to the ECU would have the potential to change the engines emission and I would think would need regulatory approval.

Wouldn't this be the approval they are talking of?

Anyway I have my six month service this Wednesday so I'll see what the service manager has to say.

Good point. It may well be so.:thumbsup:

[Sludge]

You have the 'pinging' issue as well Sludge? :(

Yep, not all the time and only at low revs.

[denot]

Has any1 or can any1 posted how this "pinging" problem sounds like? I just want to hear how does it sound, how to notice it, etc...

Thanks

[Joystick]

Sludge: Well, that sucks. Mines mainly noticeable between 2-3k RPM under load

Denot: Make sure you have you radio turned off, for me I can hear a metallic like a piece of metal vibrating against another piece of metal sound, not highly obvious. Below 2k RPM the noise is too faint for me to hear and above 3k RPM the engine is working harder and other noises masquerade the pinging sound.

[denot]

Denot: Make sure you have you radio turned off, for me I can hear a metallic like a piece of metal vibrating against another piece of metal sound, not highly obvious. Below 2k RPM the noise is too faint for me to hear and above 3k RPM the engine is working harder and other noises masquerade the pinging sound.

sorry joystick, but Im not really good ad imagening thing... I need an actual proof on how it sounds so I can check with my car (and every1 elses cars who said they dont have this pinging problem). Maybe is a problem for one person, but not for the other? who knows...

[Sludge]

sorry joystick, but Im not really good ad imagening thing... I need an actual proof on how it sounds so I can check with my car (and every1 elses cars who said they dont have this pinging problem). Maybe is a problem for one person, but not for the other? who knows...

Joystick has it about right.

It’s a difficult noise to describe, sounds like a high pitched bubbling noise to me.

When it happens my first thought is that there is something very small floating loose inside the CAT or muffler.

Sorry best I can do, its a bit like trying to explain a mother in-law.

[denot]

thanks anyway guys...

without the real sound clip for me, i will keep on guessing what the the ping stuff wll sounds like.. is it either "knock knock knock" or just one "knock" occacionally, or "clank" or "clank clank clank clank" or is it something like "buzzzzzzz" or "buzzz buzzz buzzz"

now you guys get why I asked the sound clip? :)

[thewizzrd]

Just received a call from my Honda Dealership. I am going in on Friday for a software upgrade to the latest version. I got my car delivered end of November last year, so there must have been a newer version since. They have advised that this may or may not fix the issue. They pretty much want feedback that they can then pass onto Honda Japan.

I'll let you all know how it goes.

[Sludge]

I had my 6 month service today and had a good chat to the service manager about the pinging.

He said the pinging is defiantly combustion chamber but is too minor to be a concern as far as engine damage goes. Apparently it only happens in the auto because the ECU is programmed different to the manual to smooth out gear changes.

The reason it doesn't happen all the time is because the ECU changes the ignition timing based on temperature, altitude, moisture and a number of other factors. So given the wrong air conditions Ping Ping. He also said that it is only a problem in Australia due to our poor quality refining (the oil companies promised to fix this by 2006 but still haven't). This is the same reason we don't have a diesel version, apparently a test car fouled its injectors after only a few thousand K's due to poor quality fuel.

He said the fix is on the way, however he does not recommend it. He said the remapping of the ECU would retard the ignition to the point that both power and economy would suffer. His suggestion if you can put up with the occasional ping (most people don't even notice it until told about it) is wait until a few others get the upgrade and get their feedback before deciding.

By the way, the service was $186 including the usual free wash. I was expecting a much bigger bill! :)

[yfin]

He also said that it is only a problem in Australia due to our poor quality refining (the oil companies promised to fix this by 2006 but still haven't).

Sounds like dog turd. Firstly, if fuel in Australia is so poorly refined - why is pinging unheard of in the CL9 (with a K24 too!), other Hondas like the s2000 or other car manufacturers?

Secondly, and this is where the blame the oil companies argument really falls down, and that is around 25% of all fuel in Australia is imported - mostly from Singapore.

Third - many members in the USA with the ACURA TSX have reported this same issue!

Honda will never solve this problem if they keep on blaming everyone else!

http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=684180 (http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=684180)

[VIDSEURO]

I had my 6 month service today and had a good chat to the service manager about the pinging.

He said the pinging is defiantly combustion chamber but is too minor to be a concern as far as engine damage goes. Apparently it only happens in the auto because the ECU is programmed different to the manual to smooth out gear changes.

The reason it doesn't happen all the time is because the ECU changes the ignition timing based on temperature, altitude, moisture and a number of other factors. So given the wrong air conditions Ping Ping. He also said that it is only a problem in Australia due to our poor quality refining (the oil companies promised to fix this by 2006 but still haven't). This is the same reason we don't have a diesel version, apparently a test car fouled its injectors after only a few thousand K's due to poor quality fuel.

He said the fix is on the way, however he does not recommend it. He said the remapping of the ECU would retard the ignition to the point that both power and economy would suffer. His suggestion if you can put up with the occasional ping (most people don't even notice it until told about it) is wait until a few others get the upgrade and get their feedback before deciding.

By the way, the service was $186 including the usual free wash. I was expecting a much bigger bill! :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This just goes to highlight that many dickheads work for Honda.
Is this guy crazy or what.
How can you say that you would not recommend a fix for customers
who are experiencing this ping engine rattle noise.
Honestly Honda needs to get it together and keep all affected customers
updated. My Euro manual luxury has the ping and its a shit noise to put up with. If their fix does not do the job i will blast the shit out their so called
customer service.
Im giving them till the end of March then writting an email.
I will advise you all of their message to us.
Love the car hate the ping.

[eur001]

My car is due for service end of this month. Will talk to the dealer and give your all some updates then.
I like the car too...but hate the sound...even so Honda Australia

This just goes to highlight that many dickheads work for Honda.
Is this guy crazy or what.
How can you say that you would not recommend a fix for customers
who are experiencing this ping engine rattle noise.
Honestly Honda needs to get it together and keep all affected customers
updated. My Euro manual luxury has the ping and its a shit noise to put up with. If their fix does not do the job i will blast the shit out their so called
customer service.
Im giving them till the end of March then writting an email.
I will advise you all of their message to us.
Love the car hate the ping.[/QUOTE]

[FOHonda]

Hi Everyone,

I have a 09 Euro Manual, and it pings quite badly. I've been in contact with Honda Australia HO since October last year...an needless to say I've been less than impressed with their so called 'Customer Service' - many inappropriate statements have been made by them.

The software 'fix' has been received by Honda Australia, but there are issues with it and they have gone back to Japan. So we are all now back to waiting an indeterminate time for Honda to get their act together.

Anyone wanting to complain to Honda Australia direct should send an email to joeg@honda.com.au, kens@honda.com.au and pauls@honda.com.au. I've been in their ear for six months now - to no avail. Don't waste your time with the dealership, they just do what Honda Aus tell them to do. My guess is that not enough people have complained to Head Office, so send away.

Honda have had long enough to address this problem, so I'm now going to get legal advice and progress action against Honda and am also looking into progressing through the Victorian Claims Tribunal (VCAT). Anyone interested in joining forces please post me on this forum and as a group we should have a stronger case.

The car is great, but the engine pinging is a complete joke - Honda need to be held accountable for selling dud cars.

[FOHonda]

I should also mention that I've asked Honda Aus HO several times whether the the 'fix' is actually a fix, and whether the 'fix' will have a detrimental effect on engine performance (power/fuel efficiency etc). Every time I've asked, they've refused to answer my question stating that "they don't have that information so can't answer my questions". BS

[VIDSEURO]

Hi Everyone,

I have a 09 Euro Manual, and it pings quite badly. I've been in contact with Honda Australia HO since October last year...an needless to say I've been less than impressed with their so called 'Customer Service' - many inappropriate statements have been made by them.

The software 'fix' has been received by Honda Australia, but there are issues with it and they have gone back to Japan. So we are all now back to waiting an indeterminate time for Honda to get their act together.

Anyone wanting to complain to Honda Australia direct should send an email to joeg@honda.com.au, kens@honda.com.au and pauls@honda.com.au. I've been in their ear for six months now - to no avail. Don't waste your time with the dealership, they just do what Honda Aus tell them to do. My guess is that not enough people have complained to Head Office, so send away.

Honda have had long enough to address this problem, so I'm now going to get legal advice and progress action against Honda and am also looking into progressing through the Victorian Claims Tribunal (VCAT). Anyone interested in joining forces please post me on this forum and as a group we should have a stronger case.

The car is great, but the engine pinging is a complete joke - Honda need to be held accountable for selling dud cars.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Any persons who have this problem with their new Euro
need to go to the Honda Web site use your VIN to log in and
send an email of complaint.
TELL THEM YOU ARE VERY DISSAPOINTED IN THEIR QUALITY CONTROL.
Honestly this whole debbacle has the potential to totally screw their reputation, which by now is in tatters.
Remember the new Euro has had maximum power tweaked from its 2.4 litre engine, this tweaking has resulted in some Euros experiencing this acceleration rattle or ping noise.

[FOHonda]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Any persons who have this problem with their new Euro
need to go to the Honda Web site use your VIN to log in and
send an email of complaint.
TELL THEM YOU ARE VERY DISSAPOINTED IN THEIR QUALITY CONTROL.
Honestly this whole debbacle has the potential to totally screw their reputation, which by now is in tatters.
Remember the new Euro has had maximum power tweaked from its 2.4 litre engine, this tweaking has resulted in some Euros experiencing this acceleration rattle or ping noise.

Keep in mind that submitting a complaint via the Honda website will just end up with kens@honda.com.au. If you send an email, also send to joeg@honda.com.au and pauls@honda.com.au. They represent the relevant management chain within Honda Aus HO.

[Sludge]

Sounds like dog turd. Firstly, if fuel in Australia is so poorly refined - why is pinging unheard of in the CL9 (with a K24 too!), other Hondas like the s2000 or other car manufacturers?

Secondly, and this is where the blame the oil companies argument really falls down, and that is around 25% of all fuel in Australia is imported - mostly from Singapore.

Third - many members in the USA with the ACURA TSX have reported this same issue!

Honda will never solve this problem if they keep on blaming everyone else!

http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=684180 (http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=684180)

If you need confirmation about the fuel quality in Australia maybe you could ask BMW why some of their models don't come down under.

http://envirofuel.com.au/2007/05/11/australian-fuel-too-dirty-for-next-g
eneration-bmws/

And the last stat I saw only 15% of our fuel is imported and a lot of that occurs while our busted refineries are down for upgrades and repairs i.e Shells Clyde refinery late last year.

[Sludge]

My car is due for service end of this month. Will talk to the dealer and give your all some updates then.
I like the car too...but hate the sound...even so Honda Australia

This just goes to highlight that many dickheads work for Honda.
Is this guy crazy or what.
How can you say that you would not recommend a fix for customers
who are experiencing this ping engine rattle noise.
Honestly Honda needs to get it together and keep all affected customers
updated. My Euro manual luxury has the ping and its a shit noise to put up with. If their fix does not do the job i will blast the shit out their so called
customer service.
Im giving them till the end of March then writting an email.
I will advise you all of their message to us.
Love the car hate the ping.[/QUOTE]

All he was saying is that he felt (not official Honda speak) that performance could suffer and if the ping is not a big issue for you wait and see how it pans out.

No need to bag a guy you have never met or spoken to. He didn't need to say anything and I appreciated his candor.

My ping is hardly noticeable and only occurs a few times a week, so I will wait and see what effect the fix has. In the mean time the dealer has noted I have the ping so I am covered warrant wise.

[Joystick]

Hey FOHonda,

What outcome are you hoping for?

[yfin]

If you need confirmation about the fuel quality in Australia maybe you could ask BMW why some of their models don't come down under.

http://envirofuel.com.au/2007/05/11/australian-fuel-too-dirty-for-next-g
eneration-bmws/


BMW will not release that new lean burn system in to countries that do not have low sulfur fuel because a special cat convertor is required. Which unfortunately for BMW is lots of places outside Europe! Not NZ. Not USA. Not Australia. Things will change over time as fuel becomes cleaner.

But that could take some time. So unless Honda designed the 2009 Euro to only run in the Europe of today - I think this is Hondas problem mate - not Australian fuel, not US fuel, not NZ etc.

[Sludge]

BMW will not release that new lean burn system in to countries that do not have low sulfur fuel because a special cat convertor is required. Which unfortunately for BMW is lots of places outside Europe! Not NZ. Not USA. Not Australia. Things will change over time as fuel becomes cleaner.

But that could take some time. So unless Honda designed the 2009 Euro to only run in the Europe of today - I think this is Hondas problem mate - not Australian fuel, not US fuel, not NZ etc.

Well I am happy with my Honda (my first) if your not you have options. Move on.

[denot]

Well I am happy with my Honda (my first) if your not you have options. Move on.

same here sludge... no probs on the CU2 for me :thumbsup:

[FOHonda]

Hey FOHonda,

What outcome are you hoping for?


Hey Joystick,

At this point I'd be happy with a car that doesn't ping madly. If the software 'fix' works - then fine. If it doesn't, I'll be pushing for a replacement or my money back - as my car does not match the quality with which I based my purchase on (ie. the two euros I trest drove dodn't ping at all).

Also, I heard from Honda HO - and apparently the software 'fix' does not effect power output/torque or fuel economy. I hope for Honda's sake that it kills the pinging.

[FOHonda]

Well I am happy with my Honda (my first) if your not you have options. Move on.

Sludge,

How many KM's do you have on your car ? The engines start pinging infrequently and not too noticably when new(ish), then start pinging louder and more frequently as the engine 'loosens up'. My ping is horrid - and I guess that others are having the same experience.

[bk212]

Well I am happy with my Honda (my first) if your not you have options. Move on.

Mate this thread is about the pinging problem. Good for you that you don't have it, but telling those that do to move on is not very helpful.

[thewizzrd]

Hi all,
I had the "special" software update done on the car today. Tech from Head Honda was inhouse. The service manager told me that it was a fix that may or may not work and they wanted feedback. He mentioned that it does manipulate the specs of the engine and the transmission. I have driven the car so far and have not noticed any pinging as yet or any performance loss.
I'll keep you all updated.

[bIpman]

Hi all,
He mentioned that it does manipulate the specs of the engine and the transmission.

Any more detailed info on the above? as in what are the changes?

Cheers.

[Sludge]

Mate this thread is about the pinging problem. Good for you that you don't have it, but telling those that do to move on is not very helpful.

I take your point, I guess what I was meaning was until we know what the fix is and what effects it has, I don't see anything constructive in continuing to bag Honda.

My service guy told me any changes can have unintended consequences and he believed the delay was probably due to dyno testing involving running an engine non stop for several months and then breaking it down and checking for damage.

FOHonda I have 7000 km on the clock.

Anyway lets just hope the fix works.

[thewizzrd]

Just drove it home and the pinging is still present. Not as much as before but still annoyingly present.

[Joystick]

Can totally understand where you're coming from FoHonda.

My ping is constant and is highly annoying, I was just thinking today I wish i got a Mazda 6. :(

Like it's been said before 'love the car, hate the ping'

[H.T]

I have read about 15 or so pages of this thread, and haven't come across something that I thought may be the issue, I am not a mechanical engineer or engineer of any sort, so don't shoot me down, but this is just a thought;

A conventional gasoline engine usually has say a alloy head and cast iron exhaust manifold that is sometimes connected flush to the heat without a gasket, sometimes with a gasket in between, no doubt these two have different properties in the way they are made up and in there molecule structure and have different heating/cooling characteristics....

I was informed that the head and the exhaust manifold are actually one piece on these motors now, despite being a carry over from the previous model.

The point I am trying to get to is, could it be possible that as it is ALL the same piece of alloy, could some of the heat that is meant to exit through the exhaust system be transferred back into the area of the head around the cylinder chamber and be causing the pre-ignition? I remember years ago coming across a crysler/mitsubishi motor that would develop a hot spot in the head and this would cause pre-ignition and even running on to an extend.

Again, I could be completely off track here, but these engines have that many sensors that if it had been a computer/software problem surely it would be able to rectify it....

[SPQR]

....The point I am trying to get to is, could it be possible that as it is ALL the same piece of alloy, could some of the heat that is meant to exit through the exhaust system be transferred back into the area of the head around the cylinder chamber and be causing the pre-ignition? ....

No shots intended in my reply but someone earlier reported that Honda Australia had stated in writing to them that the problem was a post-ignition event and not likely to cause damage; in which case it would be better described as "pinging" or "knocking" and not "pre-ignition" since, by definition, the latter would be a pre-ignition event and not a post-ignition event.

See here for an explanation of the difference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking.

It could be the integral manifold as you suggested: Remnant fuel exploding in the hot integral manifold could sound like pinging.

[SPQR]

In my belief if this was the actual problem All K24Z3 engines would be effected, not just a few which is the case. I could use the same argument & suggest that if it was an actual pinging problem in theory it would be more pronounced on vehicles with a manual transmission as owners would tend to labour the engine more (not downshifting soon enough) which would place more load on the engine, subsequently increasing the chance of pinging. Pre Ignition has usually been associated with high load / low RPM.
I still believe it is a problem associated with the timing chain / tensioner, but again if this was the case one has to ask why Manual Transmission vehicles don't appear to be effected? Could it possibly be something within the Torque Converter or an Auto Trans problem?
All we can do is wait for Honda HQ to find the problem so that effected vehicles can be rectified.
I have no such problem in my CU2 Auto, & 2 others that I know of personally are not effected either. It will be interesting to find out what the problem is eventually.

I think that not all Autos ping and not all manuals ping. But remember that the auto Euro outsells the manual 9 to 1. So there are less manuals on the road with the problem.

[Bobjones]

Any updates people, it is now MID March and the "Start of March" problem rectification is yet to be seen??

I have had my 10K service (and for an oil change farkin expensive and once this noise is rectified will not be going back to Honda Dealership so they can prop up their profits by ripping people off at service...) and nothing about this has come into the dealer and obviously nothing thus done to my car...

Just want to see what others are experiencing being mushrooms???

[FOHonda]

^^^ A guy from this forum got the update. last message from him was that the ping is gone.

EDIT: here's the post (prev page)


Latest post from 'thewizzard' was ...

"Just drove it home and the pinging is still present. Not as much as before but still annoyingly present."

[denot]

Latest post from 'thewizzard' was ...

"Just drove it home and the pinging is still present. Not as much as before but still annoyingly present."

ah my bad, I'll delete my post then :thumbsup:

[bk212]

I got an email from service manager at my dealer yesterday, stating:

"We have been advised by Honda Australia that the repair method has been developed. Currently Honda Motor Co Japan are running further field testing to ensure its suitability for Australian conditions. We will be in touch once that is finalised to book you in".

[VIDSEURO]

All he was saying is that he felt (not official Honda speak) that performance could suffer and if the ping is not a big issue for you wait and see how it pans out.

No need to bag a guy you have never met or spoken to. He didn't need to say anything and I appreciated his candor.

My ping is hardly noticeable and only occurs a few times a week, so I will wait and see what effect the fix has. In the mean time the dealer has noted I have the ping so I am covered warrant wise.[/QUOTE]


Pull your head in Sludge.

Im making a comment ok, if you wanna be a precious pussy
over it so be it then.
Cant a bloke have say or what.

[Sludge]

All he was saying is that he felt (not official Honda speak) that performance could suffer and if the ping is not a big issue for you wait and see how it pans out.

No need to bag a guy you have never met or spoken to. He didn't need to say anything and I appreciated his candor.

My ping is hardly noticeable and only occurs a few times a week, so I will wait and see what effect the fix has. In the mean time the dealer has noted I have the ping so I am covered warrant wise.


Pull your head in Sludge.

Im making a comment ok, if you wanna be a precious pussy
over it so be it then.
Cant a bloke have say or what.[/QUOTE]

You can say what you like its a free country!

I just don't see the need to attack people in the process.

[VIDSEURO]

Say what you like its a free country!

I just don't see the need to attack people in the process.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sludge

Bit of attack never hurt anyone ok.
Anyhow enough of the frivolities.

Here is an email i rec'd this arvo from Honda Australia :

For all the pingers like myself its at least some news.
The email is in response to me asking them what's going on with this
pinging Sh**.

Dear Mr XXXXXXXXX

We apologise for the delay in responding. Honda Motor Co,. Ltd has developed a countermeasure upgrade software for the engine management system and the factory R & D engineers are in the process of conducting field testing before it will be released in Australia. We expect this revised software will be available within a number of weeks although we are unable to provide you with a specific time frame. Therefore at this point in time we are not in a position to attend to your vehicle as anticipated and sincerely apologise for this delay. We will be back in contact with you as soon as we receive further advice from the factory regarding this matter. While anticipating your disappointment we thank you for your patience.

Regards
HONDA AUSTRALIA PTY LTD


Ken Sheppard
Client Relations Specialist
Customer Services

[Sludge]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sludge

Bit of attack never hurt anyone ok.
Anyhow enough of the frivolities.

Here is an email i rec'd this arvo from Honda Australia :

For all the pingers like myself its at least some news.
The email is in response to me asking them what's going on with this
pinging Sh**.

Dear Mr XXXXXXXXX

We apologise for the delay in responding. Honda Motor Co,. Ltd has developed a countermeasure upgrade software for the engine management system and the factory R & D engineers are in the process of conducting field testing before it will be released in Australia. We expect this revised software will be available within a number of weeks although we are unable to provide you with a specific time frame. Therefore at this point in time we are not in a position to attend to your vehicle as anticipated and sincerely apologise for this delay. We will be back in contact with you as soon as we receive further advice from the factory regarding this matter. While anticipating your disappointment we thank you for your patience.

Regards
HONDA AUSTRALIA PTY LTD


Ken Sheppard
Client Relations Specialist
Customer Services

I don't understand whats going on. I thought thewizzrd said he already had the upgrade?

[VIDSEURO]

unfortunately thewizzard is fulla shyte....
so to thewizzard pull your head in and get real man.
These posts are for educated people who want to share
useful information not Bull Shit

[Sludge]

unfortunately thewizzard is fulla shyte....
so to thewizzard pull your head in and get real man.
These posts are for educated people who want to share
useful information not Bull Shit

You do call it as you see it, don't you!;)

[VIDSEURO]

Thanks Sludge

I smelled thewizzard afar off.
Mate seriously if Honda does not come up with the goods
this has the potential to really turn things upside down for them.
Their Euro has a mettalic noise and its the Car of The Year.
My euro has 4,500 and makes the noise under load and when cold.
Radio up and i dont hear it as bad.
I really enjoy this car but im disspointed that something like this has happened.
I guess we all get a reality check from time to time so
lets see what happens from here on.
I envisage little men in lab coats in Japan are working their little
arses off and flogging a Euro to replicate the problem.
Good luck to them.

[Joystick]

Yes, I highly doubted thewizzard because Honda wouldn't release firmware upgrade unless it worked.

My ping is pretty horrid and I'm going to try and capture the sound tonight because the noise is so pronouced.

I'll put a link up on youtube once available, pending if I can get the noise recorded.

I'll keep you guys posted.

[Joystick]

Went out to the shops to pick up some sweet chilli wheat grains as an excuse to capture the pinging sound but instead found a CL7 Euro in a car accident near the Gungahlin shops. :(

Hope everyone involved was ok.

Anyway, back on topic. The trip was a total failure, not only was I unable to capture the pining sound on tape but Coles was sold out of sweet chilli wheat grains!

[nickxau]

HAHAHA!!! What a crack up Joystick! Did you mean to say "grain waves"?

Out of curiosity, how were you planning to record the sound? Put your mobile in audio record mode and put it on the dash while you drove?

[Joystick]

Yes, I did mean grain waves! lol I've only just discovered them and I'm now hooked.

I had my video recorded attached to the steering wheel so you'ld be able to see the rev range while the pinging noise occured but wasn't able to capture the sound, too much back ground noise.

That, or mic can not pick up the freqency of the ping....?

Also, on a positive note, was able to pick up some Grain Waves on the way home from work!