Honda boss confirms Civic hatch for 2009 [Archive]

fasthonda

06-10-2008, 06:13 PM

Taken from the carpoint site.

The article mentions that it will "target Golf buyers".I see this as a big problem.The new Golf MkVI will be available in 2009.From initial reports the car(GolfVI) is even more refined than the MKV Golf.
The Civic hatch may try and compete in the refinement stakes however,in terms of the ride quality ,the new Golf VI I believe,will be much better.

http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/2990603.aspx

moons

07-10-2008, 01:00 AM

booooooooooooooooo!

SPEEDCORE

07-10-2008, 08:56 AM

Well they got a tough battle ahead... given the 4 year low the dollar hit overnight.

dmx

08-10-2008, 04:17 PM

this decision only makes FN2R looks not unique anymore

DreadAngel

09-10-2008, 10:58 PM

Great... More FN2s now with a wannabe FN2R option... FN2S anyone =|

denot

10-10-2008, 08:55 AM

so we got civic hatch (is it called FN2?) and hatch Type R (FN2R). can we get FD2 and FD2R? :p

bodaas

10-10-2008, 06:41 PM

they called it civic Fk overthere

LD_Mart

10-10-2008, 08:19 PM

it wont sell over her..
it is going to be priced around the same as a FD sport once it hits our shores..
no one will be willing to pay that much for a standard hatch back..
unless there stupid..

SaiHayashi

10-10-2008, 10:31 PM

i too rckn its a stupid decision to make,
instead why wouldnt they get the FD2R over to aus?
im sure it will make a hell lot more profit than the type-S.

moons

11-10-2008, 02:59 PM

im sure it will make a hell lot more profit than the type-S.

I doubt that. They always sell more cooking models than real cars. Just look at the population of this forum and their constant refusal to create a Type R section!

If they are released here, Type S/etc will outnumber Type R easily I'd say.

Never underestimate the number of spastics that like the shape of the performance model but want it in an auto, or without a decent engine, etc.

aaronng

11-10-2008, 03:20 PM

The Golf sells well because of the GTI. I see more GTIs than the base model Golfs. Honda needs to do proper market research and not make the decision for the public. If they want to rival the GTI, they need an engine which makes good torque and has an auto or DSG gearbox. A base model 103kW auto will not rob any sales from the Golf GTI.

Calling the 1.8L 103kW auto hatch a Type S is bullshit.....

SaiHayashi

11-10-2008, 05:13 PM

I doubt that. They always sell more cooking models than real cars. Just look at the population of this forum and their constant refusal to create a Type R section!

If they are released here, Type S/etc will outnumber Type R easily I'd say.

Never underestimate the number of spastics that like the shape of the performance model but want it in an auto, or without a decent engine, etc.
but that will on the other hand either kill off the sales of FDs or the FN base models, and much likely to be the FN going down as it looks kinda ugly when its not type R.

and what im actually meaning is, given integra has been put on a fullstop, Honda actually would have a higher demand in sedan/coupe sports car, and the FD2R would totally make up. like geez if FD2R is available over in aus, i wouldve bought it instead of the FN2R even tho i love mine too.

The Golf sells well because of the GTI. I see more GTIs than the base model Golfs. Honda needs to do proper market research and not make the decision for the public. If they want to rival the GTI, they need an engine which makes good torque and has an auto or DSG gearbox. A base model 103kW auto will not rob any sales from the Golf GTI.

Calling the 1.8L 103kW auto hatch a Type S is bullshit.....
totally! type S was just a pretty name to rip people off.
honda also needs to consider bladeless key technology too... or at least a genuine flip key

moons

11-10-2008, 05:32 PM

but that will on the other hand either kill off the sales of FDs or the FN base models, and much likely to be the FN going down as it looks kinda ugly when its not type R.

and what im actually meaning is, given integra has been put on a fullstop, Honda actually would have a higher demand in sedan/coupe sports car, and the FD2R would totally make up. like geez if FD2R is available over in aus, i wouldve bought it instead of the FN2R even tho i love mine too.

I disagree. The FN2s shape is unique and wholly different to every other car available here. And as this is arguably not altogether unaesthetic, this makes the cooking model very marketable.

The Type S/etc. won't compete against GTIs - That's what the Type R is for. Cooking models compete against other cooking models. And since the Golf is such a boring car to look at, the FN2s will appeal.

As for the FD2R, beyond a handful of Honda purists - whatever that means - that would buy the car on autopilot, the majority of people would pass it by. All the people that like/need the shape will just buy the cooking model as they do now.

While I am in the minority on Honda fanatic boards, I for one would not have bought a Type R if the FD2R was the only one available.

If we are going to go into fantasy land - FD2R in Australia is such a fantasy by the way - I would be far more inclined to buy a FD2R spec'd FN2 - which, unfortunately is also not going to happen.

The only thing a cooking model variant of the FN2R is going to do is reduce the shapes uniqueness. And it will do so in a big way.

SaiHayashi

11-10-2008, 07:29 PM

And since the Golf is such a boring car to look at, the FN2s will appeal.

thats very true LOL, golf IS a boring car.

but just some personal opinion that i prefer FD2R over FN2 base, as i was shocked seeing FN2 base model for the first time and its in brown colour :confused:...

6-SpeedManual

13-10-2008, 11:13 AM

SaiHayashi

13-10-2008, 11:26 AM

'moons' got a very good point. i'd doubt the public other than enthusiasts would go out of their way to buy a fd2r. also with its price range. the public would rather go for cars like the 350z.

i'm to curious to why honda australia couldn't just import a limited number of fd2r into the country to sell purely to enthusiasts?? any ideas?
with 70-80k there can be better alternatives to 350Z.
back to the topic, they're on 2 totally different levels. i must admit fd2r's price range could (and should) be quite high, but certainly shouldnt be up to a point where people would rather invest on 350z's price (then theyll go for CLC or z4 roadster), otherwise everyone would end up either buying legend or s2k, wouldnt they?
afterall, arent we all honda's enthusiasts ;-) CTR ftw

oh and one more thing, i was just able to see the 2009 face-lift of FN2 base lastnight, im actually glad that they decide to paint the roof to body colour, and a new set of grill that looks much better now.

moons

13-10-2008, 11:30 AM

i'm to curious to why honda australia couldn't just import a limited number of fd2r into the country to sell purely to enthusiasts?? any ideas?

I'd suggest that after you factor in the few people that would actually buy it - The FD2R is focused on a core group of enthusiasts much more than the FN2R is - and however much it would cost to get the car complianced, etc., here, it would be a money loser.

Pretty much the same reason we never saw the NSX-R. Too many other makers donig the same car but cheaper/better/etc.

If you think about it, its a small miracle we got the FN2R at all. Lets face it, the Golf GTI is to any reasonable person a much better buy.

And while I have no evidence, I'd suggest this is driving the lowered price point of the FN2. First it was 5 year warranty free, now it is 39990 drive away.

I love the FN2R but I think its costing Honda Australia money. Not nearly as much as the FD2R would've cost, however.

LD_Mart

13-10-2008, 11:34 AM

After being at the motor show on the weekend i dont understand why people rate the Golf so highly..
Sure performance is better but to an average joe performance doesnt really matter...
i found it very uncomfortable, boring and ugly... the back seats didnt seem to have much space..
And the R32 seats well i couldnt even fit in them...

How come the Civic hatch wasnt at the motor show...
When i was there, there seem to be a bit of fuss over the type r by many people..

SaiHayashi

13-10-2008, 11:34 AM

I'd suggest that after you factor in the few people that would actually buy it - The FD2R is focused on a core group of enthusiasts much more than the FN2R is - and however much it would cost to get the car complianced, etc., here, it would be a money loser.

Pretty much the same reason we never saw the NSX-R. Too many other makers donig the same car but cheaper/better/etc.

If you think about it, its a small miracle we got the FN2R at all. Lets face it, the Golf GTI is to any reasonable person a much better buy.

And while I have no evidence, I'd suggest this is driving the lowered price point of the FN2. First it was 5 year warranty free, now it is 39990 drive away.

I love the FN2R but I think its costing Honda Australia money. Not nearly as much as the FD2R would've cost, however.
i thought the japanese wanted to keep NSX-R to their own because of their cultural selfishness (no offense to japs, im actually impressed with that). well certainly u made a point too, but NSX is dedicated to Honda's die hard fans, like u could get a GTR and tune it and still cheaper than an NSX, but we still love NSX

SaiHayashi

13-10-2008, 11:41 AM

i found it very uncomfortable, boring and ugly... the back seats didnt seem to have much space..
And the R32 seats well i couldnt even fit in them...

hahahaaa yea i know, its like sitting on a balloon. and being spoiled by the FN2R, i couldnt find any interior designs that would impress me.

as for the back seat, ill never forget what the dealer told me when he was selling the car -- "you know, some cars are just designed to have no friends in the back seats."

moons

13-10-2008, 12:15 PM

After being at the motor show on the weekend i dont understand why people rate the Golf so highly..

Are you for real? It's quicker. It has better fuel economy. It is arguably better built. While plain, it is neat both inside and out. It is lighter. It is easier to live with day to day. And while the seats may not be comfortable for you they are plenty comfortable enough - and heated in leather. It is marginally higher spec'd than the FN2R throughout.

In our driveway we have both an FN2R and a MkV DSG GTI.

Honestly, the only two boxes the GTI doesn't tick is looks (which is arbitrary) and critically for me, driving experience.

While you may not rate the GTI highly, it's quite a task to reasonably rate the FN2R above it!

denot

13-10-2008, 12:27 PM

Honestly, the only two boxes the GTI doesn't tick is looks (which is arbitrary) and critically for me, driving experience.

Those two are on my priority list... so GTI is a no no for me... :thumbdwn: oh and the hatch! why oh why ppl make performance car in hatch???

aaronng

13-10-2008, 12:35 PM

Those two are on my priority list... so GTI is a no no for me... :thumbdwn: oh and the hatch! why oh why ppl make performance car in hatch???

Are you dissing the EK9 and EP3 Civic Type R's? :thumbdwn: :p

moons

13-10-2008, 01:02 PM

Those two are on my priority list... so GTI is a no no for me... :thumbdwn:

Agreed - I am the same. GTI is the GFs car :p.

oh and the hatch! why oh why ppl make performance car in hatch???

Same reason they turn four door cars into performance cars, maybe? At least three doors tend to be smaller. :cool:

denot

13-10-2008, 01:21 PM

Are you dissing the EK9 and EP3 Civic Type R's? :thumbdwn: :p

sort of... sorry but i'm not a hatchback fan at all... Dont get me wrong... they're good for daily driving and find parking (actually I love them for these reasons), but for a look of a performance car? :(

My two cents: theres a reason why Ferrari and other performance car maker doesnt make the car in hatchback... (please dont flame me on this :()

aaronng

13-10-2008, 01:25 PM

My two cents: theres a reason why Ferrari and other performance car maker doesnt make the car in hatchback... (please dont flame me on this :()
You might get flamed. Eventhough we love Hondas, we are not that blind to compare it to a Ferrari.

BTW, the reason is that Ferraris are meant to be either MR or FR coupes or 2 seaters, which are made purely for the pleasure of driving.

Hondas are made to be daily driven and be practical (hence you get hatch, wagon, sedan, coupe and SUV shapes).

denot

13-10-2008, 03:07 PM

Hondas are made to be daily driven and be practical (hence you get hatch, wagon, sedan, coupe and SUV shapes).

hahahah I know mr aaronng... but like you said... daily driven and practical, not for performance :p so why make/release "a-better-performance-version-than-the-standard-version" on hatchback instead of the sedan? why they have R32 in hatchback, not sedan?

SaiHayashi

13-10-2008, 03:17 PM

aaronng

13-10-2008, 03:22 PM

hahahah I know mr aaronng... but like you said... daily driven and practical, not for performance :p so why make/release "a-better-performance-version-than-the-standard-version" on hatchback instead of the sedan? why they have R32 in hatchback, not sedan?
They do have "a-better-performance-version-than-the-standard-version" in sedan. It is called the Passat R36. It even comes in wagon if you like a "hot wagon". Furthermore, soccer moms are not left out. There is the Toureg R50.

The reason why there is a Golf GTI/R32 is because the Golf mkI GTI was the iconic hot hatch back in its day. So to make a performance version, they would use the Golf mk V instead to leverage on the Golf GTI mkI's heritage. Also, there is no Golf sedan. :p

denot

13-10-2008, 03:34 PM

They do have "a-better-performance-version-than-the-standard-version" in sedan. It is called the Passat R36. It even comes in wagon if you like a "hot wagon". Furthermore, soccer moms are not left out. There is the Toureg R50.

The reason why there is a Golf GTI/R32 is because the Golf mkI GTI was the iconic hot hatch back in its day. So to make a performance version, they would use the Golf mk V instead to leverage on the Golf GTI mkI's heritage. Also, there is no Golf sedan. :p

hahahah ic ic... oh well... i think it just becoz I dont like hatches :p thats why I "foolishly" choose the Civic Sports to GTI 2 years ago :p

moons

13-10-2008, 03:36 PM

hahahah ic ic... oh well... i think it just becoz I dont like hatches :p thats why I "foolishly" choose the Civic Sports to GTI 2 years ago :p

Err.. you bought a Civic Sport over a GTI? :o

denot

13-10-2008, 03:37 PM

ya... and main reason is: I dont like how GTI looks :p

anyway, should we go back to topic? XD

moons

13-10-2008, 03:50 PM

ya... And main reason is: I dont like how gti looks

omfg.

denot

13-10-2008, 03:54 PM

^^^ omfg2

moons

13-10-2008, 04:00 PM

LOL. Sorry mate, I wouldn't buy a cooking model if it looked like an NSX. You haven't put little Red Hs on your car have you?

aaronng

13-10-2008, 04:13 PM

LOL. Sorry mate, I wouldn't buy a cooking model if it looked like an NSX. You haven't put little Red Hs on your car have you?

Why not? If there was a cooking model NSX with say 2.4L 140kW, it would still look good, have enough power to move around and handles good. The only thing is that being a cooking model, it would have to be affordable. That is something that the NSX definitely isn't.