headers for EK4

[alphabeatsco]

anyone can recommend me what is good performance for Ek4?
i have heard spoon is best...but i think it's too much for my budget...
anything else apart from spoon?
spoon will cost around 1500, right?

[tanghy]

apexi gt spec
mugen 4-1

all will be around 1300-1500 price range

[tanghy]

or you can get a OEM JDM 4-1 header

[alphabeatsco]

i have someone selling a 2nd hand apexi gt spec header for me
for $450
but it's been on da car for 1 and 1/2 year already
what u think?

how's da XFORCE ones? for performance.

[tanghy]

jap quality shits on taiwanese quality

[VTEChnique]

or you can get a OEM JDM 4-1 header


Bang for Buck - you cant go past the JDM Type R 4>1 Header IMO.
half of the aftermarket headers are just copies of this OEM unit anyway. plus you get OEM reliability, increased ground clearance from a trick-collector, and also you can even retain a heat shield for cool under-bonnet temps and or a stealth look.

I think $400 used, or around $600-800 NEW.

[eknine]

well if you have the money, spoon and toda will be better...as for the rest some abid by the rules such as if its jasma => it is restrictive.

the piping diameter is also one you will want to consider, so compare it by matching it with the different brands and you will realised that what you pay is what you get :)

but if you show tanghy the $$ he will show you the blings as well :D

[tanghy]

half of the aftermarket headers are just copies of this OEM unit anyway. plus you get OEM reliability, increased ground clearance from a trick-collector,

you are wrong there

[Weq]

man, for 1500 u could have a custom manifold + turbo bolted up.. just need some fuel management and ur set :P

[Rufes1]

Yeh 1500 for a header is a mega rip, for what? piss all power gains

[tanghy]

Yeh 1500 for a header is a mega rip, for what? piss all power gains

you are so wrong there
i so wish ppl who don't know anything would just shut up

[eknine]

ignorance and bliss? endless.....contradiction :D

[JASMA]

i have someone selling a 2nd hand apexi gt spec header for me
for $450
but it's been on da car for 1 and 1/2 year already
what u think?

how's da XFORCE ones? for performance.

well XFORCE header is fine.....but not the muffler man....
I know ppl from XFORCE, I can ask the price for u if u want to... :D

[DynoDave]

Yeh 1500 for a header is a mega rip, for what? piss all power gains
What facts do you base this on ???????????.
Regards Dyno Dave

[SPEEDCORE]

What facts do you base this on ???????????.

The last Hot 4's magazine? :rolleyes:

[VTEChnique]

you are wrong there


you are so wrong there
i so wish ppl who don't know anything would just shut up

I wish YOU would stop being "Mr Wonderfull-buy-my-over-priced-crap-cause-its-the-only-way-to-be-hardcore-I-am-the-king-of-hondas-yet-I-only-give-one-line-responses-and-dont-justify-my-claims-in-any-way-Tang"

get over yourself Tanghy !! since the first day i've met you, you are ALWAYS saying "ohh HE doesnt know shit.. he should buy this header (the one sitting in the back seat of your car for 3 months) as it's the best header in the world and is the best price.."

I said HALF of the aftermarket headers out there are copies of the design of the ITR header - I am sooo wrong ? have you looked at 1/2 the super-bling headers you've been selling ? fark Tanghy - get a life mate !! At least I dont go selling el-cheapo Taiwanese Headers passing them off as 'mugen copies' pffft.

So yeah I wish Mr-know-it-alls would just shut up too Andrew you expert !! Flame away..

[wynode]

Keep it on track thanks and no personal insults!

[VTEChnique]

Keep it on track thanks and no personal insults!

IS on track Wyn.. if you read my post - it makes some VERY valid points.

wondering why Mods dont pick up on it before - I mean this is not Tankghy's JDM-Yard Forum.. though one would be right for thinking it is.

OZHonda is meant to be objective and non-biased.. but c'mon posts like those mentioned above are just not-acceptable.

If one must post, if you cant offer anything to the conversation other than 'you are wrong and I wish these people would shut up etc" then dont post at all - especially if you have vested interests.. Is not fair to OZ Honda members to encourage this type of behaviour...regardless of who is a sponsor of OZ Honda etc.

If you must make a big statement on a thread - back up your claims - none of these one-line crap I am god posts.. that's all I got to say, am stepping down from my soap-box now ; )

[KB]

Well as for cheap shit, im going to buy a set of $80 CHROME Ebay Headers and prove you all wrong. MWWHAHAHAHAHAHA :wave:
JDM Qualitar yo!


Ohh by the way mods although I think 'Vtechnique" post was a bit of an flame, just scroll back a few posts to 'tahngy' "ppl who no nothing should shut up". Wheres the relevence to this post? This guy asked for opinions on headers that don't cost a fortune and some members offered there opinions (wheather proven or just an opinion) they are still entitled to it, and to have someone to say "shut up you know nothing", whos flaming who?

[tanghy]

, increased ground clearance from a trick-collector, and a

you want to explain how u get increased ground clearance when it clearly hangs lower?

[VTEChnique]

will gladly explain..

whilst MOST aftermarket headers for B-series have a 'standard' collector that is 'rounded' {::}, the OEM ITR header has it's runners joined into a flat collector piece {....} - well not quite that flat - but more staggered than normal.. so therefore the runners are not a big bunch of pipes that dangle down, the ITR Header has the ability to sit higher thanks to the more 'flat' aspect of the ITR collector.

In case I didnt explain, imagine that an elephant stood on a regular collector and flattened it down a bit..

so this gives the abilty to have slightly more ground clearance.. may not be the BEST for super-mega-high-flow, but it IS a design point worth noting in my opinion.

Hangs lower ? well maybe on a B16 it will hang lower - but not a B18C.. it's a trade off.. you see a regular collector on a header meant for B18 will hang even LOWER than the ITR version if mounted to a B16 which has a shorter deck height.

:wave:

[KB]

Yeah Can't go past OEM JDM Official Factory Qualitar

[Weq]

Dynodave, Tangy, hondar. Give me the dyno results.

For a 1500 for a header(jdm speak) + catback exhaust ($1000?) Show ME were the ~2500 went, COMPARED to a cheap XFORCE header + mild steel crush bent 2.5" or 2.25" mandral bent system u get done at the local exhaust place. ALso a comparisoon between a stock catback, with xforce+jdm headers. Fess up or shut up with the JDM BS, u are saying that its night and day, i want to see atleast a 3x the gain. And no, 5kw compared to 15kw doesnt cut it, for 2500 id want to be gaining +20kw atw peak, with larger gains throughout the rev range as a bare minimum.

[LatinoHatchCrap]

My suggestion is that if all you want is I/H/E+tuning all I would do is get the JDM 4-1.

If you're planning to do an agressive N/A setup with internal work done to your motor then spending 1300 on a TODA/apex' ill def be worth it in the end.

Weq: You have to understand its the whole engine that matters and not just an exhaust and headers. The gains from a JDM header will be seen once you do more work to your motor. In that sense as more work is done to the motor the JDM4-1 will become a bottleneck.

[ek004]

I wish YOU would stop being "Mr Wonderfull-buy-my-over-priced-crap-cause-its-the-only-way-to-be-hardcore-I-am-the-king-of-hondas-yet-I-only-give-one-line-responses-and-dont-justify-my-claims-in-any-way-Tang"

get over yourself Tanghy !! since the first day i've met you, you are ALWAYS saying "ohh HE doesnt know shit.. he should buy this header (the one sitting in the back seat of your car for 3 months) as it's the best header in the world and is the best price.."

I said HALF of the aftermarket headers out there are copies of the design of the ITR header - I am sooo wrong ? have you looked at 1/2 the super-bling headers you've been selling ? fark Tanghy - get a life mate !! At least I dont go selling el-cheapo Taiwanese Headers passing them off as 'mugen copies' pffft.

So yeah I wish Mr-know-it-alls would just shut up too Andrew you expert !! Flame away..

you my friend are a tool...

[ek004]

Latino Hatch crap is right...

its plain and simple you can bolt this on and that on and make small amounts of HP here and lose it in other places,

to some people paying 1500 is to much for a header... fair enough, but like latino said it might be a compromise later down the track when you do more mods and get more serious about your motor.

at the end of the day the best way to make power is to optimise what you have put on, bolt on a header and exhaust make a bit of power here and there and you may also lose some here and there.. if you use and ecu and tune these things out you are getting more value for your money.

IMO tuning is the key, and like latino hatchcrap said depends on the motor and car as a whole and its purpose.

I respect Tanghy he offers great advice on what you should do, he by no means tries to push a product, he simply states he has a product whether you wish to buy it is up to you...

anyways who the F**&K am I to say anything im no mechanic, im not gonan sit here like an internet mechanic and say this is best or that is best cause for the simple fact i dont know, im basically stating my opnion from experiences

cheers

[VTEChnique]

you my friend are a tool...

what's THAT all about you ****head ?? Mods please ?

you are the one that sounds like a internet-jockey - I bet you've NEVER had grease on your hand.. except maybe some hand-cream for wanking !!
so why you come on here posting your crap ?

I mean you are some 20 year old that mommy and daddy bought an EK4 and you painted the rims black and now you're tha man. Try getting some knowledge and experience under your OWN belt before you come on here making these posts saying that I am a Tool.. **** sake.. go buy some more LED valve-caps you rice-toy !!

come tell me i'm a tool to my face you ****head !!!!!

now you moron, the question asked on this thread was what is the difference and advantage of a $1500 header over a $500 header or whatever.. YOU are one of these fools who'd put on a Spoon header for $1500 and say it's the best header in the world and you got a 40Kw gain at the rims etc.. but you wouldnt know !!

[LatinoHatchCrap]

Name calling on a forum is so childish...

[VTEChnique]

Name calling on a forum is so childish...

exactly - so why does EK004 log-on to the Forum, reads this thread, then only manages to type "you are a tool".

it's ****ing pathetic, I have tried to give my answers to the wquestion asked by the person that started the thread, and I have always given an explanation and justification for my answers, then I get called a tool by some 20 year old momma's boy.. pffttt.

[SINISTR]

ahhh HUSTON - WE HAVE A SITUATION!!!

guy guys guys!!!! RELAX!!!

everyone is right in their own mind...
what needs to be said that NOT always expensive stuff is the best, but sometimes buying cheap stuff is like Buying stuff from WA Salvage 'We're not fancy but we're cheap' places... (sorry to all the East States people - WA Salvage is a bargain corner kinda place) - It Won't last as long, quality is poor etc etc.

its like buying a SONY compared to a SANYO. You pay for the name, you pay for the brand, and you pay for the quality, the guarantee, service blah blah all that stuff.
Yes - sometimes there is no difference in the product, but what comes into play is how long that product will last and what can be obtained in the future. if you want cheap car you get a Huyndai. If you want quality you buy a Honda.

Same with Extractors and mufflers. Buy a CHEAP muffler, you will throw it out in 2yrs time .... buy a quality one and it will be there in 5yrs time. Buy CHEAP extractors, they will RUST, the welds will come apart under stress etc etc... buy quality and that won't happen. But with QUality - comes a price!

I agree with who ever said that you need mods to get gains, TRUE!!! Simple extractors, if they are for $50 or $1500 won't get you gains more than 5-10hp... UNLESS you put the money into the engine. In the long run however - the more expensive headers will last longer, and WILL have better gains through reasearch done on them once the car is modified!

Ive bought extractors made by RS*R - they are the originals - cost me $700 USED. its alot of money.... However my plan is to modify the motor and thats when I believe the quality of these extractors will come into play - alot of money and research has gone into making them the way they are - and im confident that will pay off in the long run...

No point in flaming anyone or what ever. Buy what you can afford, but buy SMART - think of whats planned ahead!

Mike

[VTEChnique]

WA Salvage rocks - dont knock it HAHAH Luigi is da man !!

Ohh ike I dont quite agree that the more expensive header wil last longer (both headers are Stainless) and that a company like R*SR has invested more $$ and R&D into the header than the HONDA factory ??

Does anybody have a link to the great header test ? their extensive testing of a whole bunch of headers on the same motor and dyno etc.

Their testing found the TODA 4-1 Race header to give highest power Gain, while OEM JDM ITR 4>1 header was best bang-per-buck and I think it had the 3rd highest gain overall.. there's definately not a $1,000 difference in power gains !!

ohh and BTW someone said anything Jasma is restrictive ? well Mugen, Spoon, Toda etc are all JASMA - Jasma is like the Australian Standards board for requlating quality of manufacture, and also ensuring the products adhere to all requirements by law etc.

[ek004]

***********

[KB]

Buy what you can afford, but buy SMART - think of whats planned ahead!


This is the only good comment to come out of this thread! Basically not everyone has heaps of cash, so basically give yourself a budget and an objective and buy the best you can afford.

Like me my objective is to get 170hp from a d16y8. My budget is $0 because I have no money. Therefore my solution was to DIY a Vtec Light now im the baddest Civic in WA. :thumbsup:

[ek004]

This is the only good comment to come out of this thread! Basically not everyone has heaps of cash, so basically give yourself a budget and an objective and buy the best you can afford.

Like me my objective is to get 170hp from a d16y8. My budget is $0 because I have no money. Therefore my solution was to DIY a Vtec Light now im the baddest Civic in WA. :thumbsup:

i agree

[hondar]

hi guys,

just 2 cents of my limited knowledge, i think the tread started asking what header suit his ek4...

a few people put JDM header to offer to him in which i am one of them. To be fair i didnt claim any kw figures for putting JDM header.

I carry them Toda header , JDM OEM 4-1 header as an alternative if people want them. However they can buy whatever header they want and dont need to buy JDM header if they dont want to.

I guess for me, you need to see your car as a whole package and not just the engine only. You got to see what is your goal. Your goal will determine what you do with the car. Also what field are playing? drag - straight line or circuit with winding road.

You header should be determined by what you want with the car. Just to add something, gear box play an important role as well in which people hard mention it at all. After all your gearbox is the torque multiplier...

No point having great engine but having mismatch gear box.

A type r gear box with 4.785 final drive is great for short race but sucks for marathon race... howver becos of this characteristic, many people do want type r gearbox becos it suits street use with short distance from point a to point b.

Your car engine will reach maximum torque when the exhaust reaches about 226 feet/seconds in speed. (i cant remember exactly figure but i think is is around there. dont quote me on that). How big is the collector and header piping will determine when your engine hit maximum torque. 4000rpm, 5000rpm or etc etc.. in that sense you will want to have maximum torque in rpm band that you will be most of the time.

No point having maximum torque in band 6000 rpm and 7000rpm when for example your kind of race only allow you to climb up to 5500rpm before you need to shift or change your gear. You are not at the car full potential...

thats why cam gear which is a tuning tool, is a very helpful in achievin whatever your goal are. it helps to focus in which powerband you want the car to have the greatest power... 4000rpm 5000rpm 6000rpm..

honda engine is designed for high rev and you will probably wont see too much gain on lower end, but you can see quite a good gain on mid to high range.

also with na cars, they are very unforgiving, put the wrong thing and the whole car screw up... unlike turbos in general in which you can still see a good gain even though you do somthing wrong.

i hope people see me that i am not trying to push one brand or the other neither i have said or look down upon other brand.

mods is a personal taste and though i do give inputs, at the end of the day, the joy of modding car lies with individual.

if it gives you pleasure to mod the way you do and happy with it, then i guess do it. anyway thats my 2 cents of comment.

[VTEChnique]

EK004..

you need to grow up my friend - I yeah I called you a 20-year old - because you ARE.. and in REACTION to you calling ME a Tool !!

You just post your thoughts ? well Like I said come call me a tool to my face, or dont make such cowardly posts from behind your keyboard !! or even better - dont waste server-space with a post like that.. jeebus !!

so you are just trying to self-justify the purchase of a $1,500 Spoon Header ?? good on you !! you are sooo hard core !!

care to tell us how a 20 year old can afford an EK4 with a $1,500 header ?? from your mommy or from drugs... EXPERIENCE bro - what other cars you owned in the 3 years you've been driving..pffttt.

[SPEEDCORE]

And no, 5kw compared to 15kw doesnt cut it, for 2500 id want to be gaining +20kw atw peak, with larger gains throughout the rev range as a bare minimum.

And you seriously expect to gain 20kw ATW with just an exhaust on lets say a B16??? Come on Weq you know better than that bro!

I know where you are comming from though.... for that kind of money turbo is a better and more frugal option for most....... it all comes down to the factor that N/A is alot more expensive to get power out of and will never be able to achieve the numbers that forced induction can deliver.

Simple concept really...... so please lets just get back to the topic on hand of $$$ of aftermarket headers and please take into consideration the comparing of R&D, materials and assembley of such parts.

[blackdc2]

VTEChnique have you ever run your car down the quater?? if so how did you go?


or have you ever tracked it anything like that?

[LatinoHatchCrap]

half of the aftermarket headers are just copies of this OEM unit anyway.
You will find that the design, runner lenght, collector diameter and finish of the TODA/Apexi are diffrent to the JDM 4-1.
Im not knocking the JDM 4-1 but the TODA and Apexi are by far superior especially if you're setup is just more than I/H/E.

[blackdc2]

You will find that the design, runner lenght, collector diameter and finish of the TODA/Apexi are diffrent to the JDM 4-1.
Im not knocking the JDM 4-1 but the TODA and Apexi are by far superior especially if you're setup is just more than I/H/E.


from experience with my car, i noticed huge gains when changing from a average header to a toda one.

[ek004]

************

[LatinoHatchCrap]

[QUOTE=VTEChnique]
Their testing found the TODA 4-1 Race header to give highest power Gain, while OEM JDM ITR 4>1 header was best bang-per-buck and I think it had the 3rd highest gain overall.. there's definately not a $1,000 difference in power gains !! [QUOTE]

TODA only makes a 4-2-1 design mate. You're still missing the point. As the motor build up grows the benefits of a TODA header will show and, in tandem, the JDM 4-1 will become restrictive to a degree.

[QUOTE=VTEChnique]
ohh and BTW someone said anything Jasma is restrictive ? well Mugen, Spoon, Toda etc are all JASMA [QUOTE]

The Spoon/TODA/apexi headers arent Jasma approved. Where did you get this information from?

[VTEChnique]

VTEChnique have you ever run your car down the quater?? if so how did you go?

or have you ever tracked it anything like that?

Yup, ran 15.61" with the D16 and stock exhaust.. done many autokhanas etc also, but I have only just swapped to B16, and havnt even got the swap sorted out completely yet so I havnt run it in it's current config.
Keeps up with many 4WD and Boosted cars - beating many Silvias etc.. my biggest problem is remembering which way to go around the cones HAHAH

I havnt done large-track work as I need to upgrade my brakes - at LEAST new pads - before I feel comfortable taking on Wannaroo.

Though if I get my timing belt problems sorted out, I will be going down to Drag-Wars to compete on the 16th Oct.

I've seen what an OEM 4-1 Header (and 5Zigen Cat-Back) can do to a bone-stock EK4.. it chopped my JDM B16A EG consistently - mind you that was the first week I had VTEC working so I couldnt drive and launch it very well HAHAH excuses excuses HHAHAHAH

My point being, that my motor with 10PS more than the AUSDM EK4, was chopped in the top end - only thing we could put it down to was the OEM 4-1 Header as my cat-back was essentially the same.

[VTEChnique]

TODA only makes a 4-2-1 design mate. You're still missing the point. As the motor build up grows the benefits of a TODA header will show and, in tandem, the JDM 4-1 will become restrictive to a degree.

The Spoon/TODA/apexi headers arent Jasma approved. Where did you get this information from?

jeebus you're an angry little man Latino Boy..
My mistake with the 4-1 / 4-2-1 TODA - sorry I am not the expert, I cannot remember the article word for word.. but the TODA header came out on top - is irrelevant to my point what config it was !! get over it..

I NEVER said the OEM Header is BETTER than TODA Spoon etc. Fark this thread wasnt about the best Header in the world, it was about OEM 4-1 vs. Big$$ headers on an EK4.

As far as I know TODA are JASMA approved, Spoon ARE Jasma Approved and also Apexi. show me your proof otherwise. I Have personally seen the JASMA stamp on Mugen, JUN, RS*R, HKS and 5Zigen headers.

I never said that as the level of tune of the motor increases, the OEM header will not be comparatively restrictive !! of course it will.. I WAS ANSWERING THE QUESTION ASKED BY THE AUTHOR OF THIS THREAD !!

[Civic Type R]

you are wrong there
Bede is correct to some extent Tanghy.
mine are a direct spinoff the JDM 98 ITR headers - but with fatter pipes.

[Civic Type R]

Dynodave, Tangy, hondar. Give me the dyno results..

i have, and i gained 10hp at top end with a flatter powercurve.
the writeup is on my website - feel free to check it out :)

[Civic Type R]

I respect Tanghy he offers great advice on what you should do, he by no means tries to push a product, he simply states he has a product whether you wish to buy it is up to you...
cheers

This is also true.
Tanghy doesnt always puch stuff he sells. I regularily approach him for advice on what is best for me and most times he doesnt sell that particular item, he still provides helpful advice.
My point, respect to other honda users and leave the egos at the door.

[VTEChnique]

Was also thinking of YOUR car too adam - but I'm not allowed to talk about yours anymore hehe..

you're back ? how was the trip ? keep the 16th Oct free for Drag Wars - we still gotta sort something out HAHAHA

[Civic Type R]

thr trip was awsome.
Im just goin thru 500 pics from NOPI atm
my cd of a visit to Japan and the Mugen showroom will be worked on next.

hint: beware the Fit Dynamite !

but back on topic.
I have the 4-1 headers and they kick ass on my B16A.
If i had the choice, i'd go 4-1 anyday.

[VTEChnique]

cool !! any photos of EG's ?? hahaha you in on the 16th ?

[LatinoHatchCrap]

jeebus you're an angry little man Latino Boy..
My mistake with the 4-1 / 4-2-1 TODA - sorry I am not the expert, I cannot remember the article word for word.. but the TODA header came out on top - is irrelevant to my point what config it was !! get over it..

I NEVER said the OEM Header is BETTER than TODA Spoon etc. Fark this thread wasnt about the best Header in the world, it was about OEM 4-1 vs. Big$$ headers on an EK4.

As far as I know TODA are JASMA approved, Spoon ARE Jasma Approved and also Apexi. show me your proof otherwise. I Have personally seen the JASMA stamp on Mugen, JUN, RS*R, HKS and 5Zigen headers.

I never said that as the level of tune of the motor increases, the OEM header will not be comparatively restrictive !! of course it will.. I WAS ANSWERING THE QUESTION ASKED BY THE AUTHOR OF THIS THREAD !!

Do apologise If I came across as angry.
I can assure you that at any stage in this thread I've never been angry :D .
My whole point is that some of the points you made warrant further discussion because they werent completely correct.
JUN/RS*R/HKS/5zygen make it clear in their websites that their products are JASMA approved.
TODA and Spoon wont touch JASMA. Their products dont come with a JASMA stamp and their websites dont have a JASMA symbol near it :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[KB]

Bede is correct to some extent Tanghy.


Adam agreeing with Bede?
Ahhh Im in some sort of alternate universe Ahhhhhh!!!! :p

Yo Adam did you bring me back a present?

[VTEChnique]

TODA and Spoon wont touch JASMA. Their products dont come with a JASMA stamp and their websites dont have a JASMA symbol near it :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

OK cool - I didnt know that.. but in relation to someone saying JASMA = Restrictive or whatever, I'd have to dissagree. JASMA is more of a manufacturing standard in relation to materials used and construction techniques - JASMA may have more ideals, but that's their main point I thought.. JASMA isnt like SMOG-Legal or CARB-Legal or whatever the Yanks use as their emmissions-friendly modifications standards - as far as I know. Has nothing to do with street or track use etc, just QUALITY..

the fact you're saying that Spoon and TODA dont touch JASMA apporoval kinda worries me - is there any official reasoning on their behalf as to why they dont ?? the fact that Mugen IS JASMA makes me wonder why Spoon and TODA arent.

THIS is an interesting arguemnt to me - one I think we should look into for JDM-whore's sake HAHAA

Now for the record > IN MY OPINION you cant go past the OEM 4-1 Header for bang for buck performance on a non type-R motor. on a type R motor - obviously you need something better... but it will cost you an arm and a leg.

If the thread-owner's EK4 was equipped with Spec C camshafts, valves and valve springs , flywheel, raised compression pistons, modified intake manifold etc.. THAN i'd say he'd need the TODA's or Spoons, but if he's using stock cams, stock intake manifold etc.. just use an OEM 4-1 header.

[SINISTR]

If the thread-owner's EK4 was equipped with Spec C camshafts, valves and valve springs , flywheel, raised compression pistons, modified intake manifold etc.. THAN i'd say he'd need the TODA's or Spoons, but if he's using stock cams, stock intake manifold etc.. just use an OEM 4-1 header.

This is what the thread owner Asked!:
anyone can recommend me what is good performance for Ek4?
i have heard spoon is best...but i think it's too much for my budget...
anything else apart from spoon?
spoon will cost around 1500, right?

NOW : where did this conversation cross the line at answering this question?
the owner never specified what he has in the engine, what he plans on doing with the engine or any other information of this sort. people started abusing people, calling people in relation to workshop objects and others blah blah blah.

Question was simple: what type of headers can you recommend for an EK4.

Simple Answer: if you plan on keeping the engine stock or mildly modified (intake) then stock exhaust should be OK as Honda as a Company is proven to have excellent flowing headers for each engine.
If you plan on developing the power of the engine, by either introducing cams, ECU, Cam gears, etc etc etc... then you will be better off getting performance extractors: 4-2-1 is known for better low and mid-range and 4-1 is known to perform better for top end performance.

THIS is where you can all express which particular extractor brand does what:

SHIT - 5 pages of nonsense and abuse! GROW up all of you!

I stick by my comment made earlier: buy what you can afford BUT plan your modifications ahead. If you know you are getting engine mods, ask what application - drag or track and then pick the extractor which suits. Then you find out manufacturer by manufacturer which extractors are better based on research on gains made by each extractor. THEN buy the extractors and deal with the COST..

Hope this settles everyone! We are all mature Adults here - lets ACT like it!


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[eknine]

........
ohh and BTW someone said anything Jasma is restrictive ? well Mugen, Spoon, Toda etc are all JASMA - Jasma is like the Australian Standards board for requlating quality of manufacture, and also ensuring the products adhere to all requirements by law etc.


errr.. spoon and toda is JASMA approved!!! :D

what is one essential issue that is a requirement by law? emission? noise ? air? blah :rolleyes: , the bottomline is the element of being street friendly

anyway you guys can go one abt on your 2cents, it doesn't matter if its $10 or $100 or $1000 for that matter .. to one with a big budget, nothing is expensive and to one with little or no budget, everything is expensive. :roll:

what is bang for buck, you still get what you pay for :)

[KB]

Honda as a Company is proven to have excellent flowing headers for each engine.

Hmmmmm..... I took off my header cover on my engine the other day and I came face to face with a monster. A cast iron crusty old peice of shit. I looked carefully at it and almost strait ofter th exhaust port the header begins to bottle neck. I think Honda make good headers on CTR, ITR and other performence models?

Not only would upgrading a header be better flowing but would yield wieght savings over the cast iron stock one!

What this guy asked was what do you think, meaning basically everyones opinion. Since no two people are the same there is always going to be a difference in opinion so really this thread was doomed from the start. Maybe he should of been more specific to as 'best bang for buck' or 'highest flowing' or 'most common' ect.

This thread should be locked.

[SINISTR]

Hmmmmm..... I took off my header cover on my engine the other day and I came face to face with a monster. A cast iron crusty old peice of shit. I looked carefully at it and almost strait ofter th exhaust port the header begins to bottle neck. I think Honda make good headers on CTR, ITR and other performence models?

Not only would upgrading a header be better flowing but would yield wieght savings over the cast iron stock one!

What this guy asked was what do you think, meaning basically everyones opinion. Since no two people are the same there is always going to be a difference in opinion so really this thread was doomed from the start. Maybe he should of been more specific to as 'best bang for buck' or 'highest flowing' or 'most common' ect.

This thread should be locked.

I don't think it needs to be locked - I think it needs to start again and the next question that needs to be asked is where are you going with the engine - in which direction : from there - we can express ideas of cost vs benefit.

hey - well - in answer to the very first part of your post: YES the standard headers are cast iron and yes they are heavy. I did say though that each header is best 'FLOWING' for each engine regardless if they are a CTR, ITR or NSX or Accord, Civic, CRX or even the little CITY. Each header is designed to be best flowing for that particular engine. You can ask any decent Honda tuner and they will tell you exactly that :)
Heavy YES - Restrictive - on a modified car - Of course. But on a stock car? NO.

I think the author needs to ask the question again: Im planning on doing this and this with my car in the future - what type of headers would be best for the application, and within a budger of $X.

[DynoDave]

Dynodave, Tangy, hondar. Give me the dyno results.

For a 1500 for a header(jdm speak) + catback exhaust ($1000?) Show ME were the ~2500 went, COMPARED to a cheap XFORCE header + mild steel crush bent 2.5" or 2.25" mandral bent system u get done at the local exhaust place. ALso a comparisoon between a stock catback, with xforce+jdm headers. Fess up or shut up with the JDM BS, u are saying that its night and day, i want to see atleast a 3x the gain. And no, 5kw compared to 15kw doesnt cut it, for 2500 id want to be gaining +20kw atw peak, with larger gains throughout the rev range as a bare minimum.

Whats this SHIT all I did was ask for some facts on why he said $1500 headers where a rip off I was not claiming that this header is better than that one.
Regards Dyno Dave

[panda[cRx]]

meow!
oooh catfight

[TODA AU]

$1500 shipped for a TODA header is a rip-off if you buy from "Hondar"
You can come & buy a set over the counter at ADVAN for $1500...
No more to pay...
Btw: We also ship them direct for $1375 if requested...

[**Ghost**]

whao... i was gone for a few days and had to catch up... 5 pages of angst... calm down guys we all usually get along fairly well...

One thing i wanted to add... I think Weq, being the turbo inclined person he is, wasnt EXPECTING a 20kw atw gain from a header. He was just saying for 1500 u might as well get a TURBO cos thats more worth it? that wot u were trying to say mate?

And generally, not that my opinion matters overly much cos i have shit all idea with some more technical things neway, for the average budget, average ambitious person its not really worth him getting a 1500 dollar header. i dont think ANYONE is contesting the fact that TODA/SPOON/MUGEN etc etc is godly godly good... but for maybe 30-50% of the price u'd get something that'd perform around 80-90% of the godly item, provided that you dont plan on stripping the engine and get better internals etc etc..

I dont know y u guys havent mentioned the "might as well get a new car" factor here... I mean i drive a Ek4, i'm 22, (and i earnt it, worked 6 months nonstop for it), i;m not about to spend $20k on my car when i coulda spent that money on a better car + trading in my current one.

Personally speaking, for the EK4 owner who isnt going for the ALLMTR record in australia or a under 13 sec 1/4 mile, i think we should ALL recommend a cheaper header, or a 2nd hand header... cos from wot the person who started the thread has been saying i dont htink he is into it THAT seriously...

Lets be practical for a second here... we cant really in good faith recommend 1500 dollars for some god headers that will show difference "WITH LATER SERIOUS ENGINE MODS"...cos chances are he wont do them anyway. Why spend on something ur not going to take advantage of?

Lets all be sensible and tell him to get a 2nd hand pair of JDM ITR headers or something, so the man can feel the difference, be happy wiht the result and save some money for a s2000 or DC5R or something later on (and remember having 1500 dollar heasders doesnt make ur car sell for any more)

just my 2cents