Bizarre 99 Honda HRV immobilizer issue

Hi all, I am at my wits end after a few years of this intermittent immobilizer issue.

This manifests itself very similarly to all other Honda 'green key flashing, crank: no start' immobilizer issues but there is a critical difference..

Firstly let me say I have:
1) I have disconnected the car battery numerous times.
2) I have checked the ECU for high resistance or out of spec capaciors/resistors.
3) I have re soldered the PGM-FI main relay, although there was no dry solder issue.
4) I have replaced the capacitor which was slightly out of spec in the immobilizer receiver coil around the ignition switch.
5) Both vehicle keys exhibit the same symptoms.

What is different about this issue is when I have the 'green key flashing' such as the ECU does not recognize the transponder, ----> I CAN BYPASS THE PROBLEM <<---- by removing the key, reinserting and very quickly turning the key all the way from lock to starter engage. This is truly bizarre as normally the immobilizer system needs time to recognize the transponder in the key before it enables the ignition system.

When the immobilizer is in this 'wont start' state which is becoming increasingly common, I can start the car this way but if I turn it off, remove the key, reinsert and turn the key to start at normal or slow speed the immobilizer will not turn off.

This is truly bizarre behaviour. Car has 98k on it and is always garaged so it should not be electronic components ageing.


There are hundreds of thread out there on this issue but no clear solutions and no other threads display this behavious of bypassing the immobilizer error by rapid key turn.

Any ideas on how I can solve this given I have been over everything?

im having the same problem with my KA9 legend, and at my wits end about what problem it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sensei_

im having the same problem with my KA9 legend, and at my wits end about what problem it is.

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I dont have any issues with my KA9. I doubt the HR-V and Legend have the same immobilizer systems given the 3 odd year development gap.

I have given up on it. The immobilizer prevents the vehicle from starting every third time now, so I just turn it off and do the "rapid key turn" to get it going. Completely counter0intuitive to the way it is supposed to work. Almost as if it's default state is disarmed and that is why if you turn the key fast enough it will start, but not if you turn the key at a normal pace. My HRV is much more reliable than my KA9 legend except for this immobilizer issue. If it progresses to the state where the vehicle will not start under any circumstance, I am inclined to replace the immob chip in the ECU with a dummy chip if I can find a match. I reckon it is either the sensor ring or the ECU and modifying the latter is sure fire where a sensor ring replacement is 50:50.

my local mechanic recently replaced the PGMFI, citing that that was the cause, however the fault is still there.

i am currently using an aftermarket key with new chip (cloned). that seems to improve the issue somewhat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sensei_

my local mechanic recently replaced the PGMFI, citing that that was the cause, however the fault is still there.

i am currently using an aftermarket key with new chip (cloned). that seems to improve the issue somewhat.

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Most commonly this issue is bad solder in the PGMFI main relay which is very common in +10 year old hondas, but definitely not the case in mine, yours and a few others who have reported similar with no resolution.

I switched to my spare key (unused since 99) and no difference. Your 'improvement' must be related to an improved induction transmitter in the key. If that is the case, then it may be the induction/receiver coil around the ignition switch is the root cause. If you ever decide to change it out, I would be interested in your result.

Interesting that my 99 HR-V key and my 96 KA9 key look similar so maybe the immobiliser receiver component is actually the same after all.

Door 1:
something similar to this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Honda-Civ...item27e26984c0

Door 2:
hacking the ECU with something similar to this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HONDA-199...item3aa16bcbce

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pnb

Most commonly this issue is bad solder in the PGMFI main relay which is very common in +10 year old hondas, but definitely not the case in mine, yours and a few others who have reported similar with no resolution.

I switched to my spare key (unused since 99) and no difference. Your 'improvement' must be related to an improved induction transmitter in the key. If that is the case, then it may be the induction/receiver coil around the ignition switch is the root cause. If you ever decide to change it out, I would be interested in your result.

Interesting that my 99 HR-V key and my 96 KA9 key look similar so maybe the immobiliser receiver component is actually the same after all.

Door 1:
something similar to this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Honda-Civ...item27e26984c0

Door 2:
hacking the ECU with something similar to this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HONDA-199...item3aa16bcbce

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i learnt so much from this post, im going to recommend you be appointed a forum MODERATOR, no joke i am still in a state of shock
.

After a few annoying years of this intermittent crank-no-start issue that is NOT related to the PGMFI main relay, (which I could bypass with rapid-key-turn-to-crank) and facing expensive parts replacement and recoding of the immobilizer system without anyone knowing for sure what the issue was, I bit the bullet and went for door2. My dental binoculars certainly helped with the operation and you have to be pretty good with a soldering iron and have a good one with a fine tip, and a good solder sucker to get the old chip off but it works a treat once installed. Was a little nervous I had bricked the ecu, but it turned out ok..

Annoyed that Honda's reliability reputation is tarnished with me, but looking over the immob components, I think they were german anyway so i'll let Honda off the hook.

got my chip off ebay.

guide
http://www.inovauto.com/index.php/re..._from_store=pt

Good work.

I just had a look at that guide - it states 95-98 ECUs run the 44pin OKI EEPROM and 99-01 run the 28pin HIC Delco

I just took a look at my 99 ECU and it definitely has a 44pin OKI processor, did yours have this? If so, would it have been possible to just remove the immo chip all together?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dorikin

Good work.

I just had a look at that guide - it states 95-98 ECUs run the 44pin OKI EEPROM and 99-01 run the 28pin HIC Delco

I just took a look at my 99 ECU and it definitely has a 44pin OKI processor, did yours have this? If so, would it have been possible to just remove the immo chip all together?

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Mine was a 99 and was the 2nd case.... 29 pin processor on 12 pin board, so I replaced it. Exactly as per photo in 2nd case but part no ends differently. According to the guide the earlier models have the 44 pin which can simply be removed. I suggest doing it carefully so if it doesn't work you can solder it back in.

Those immob boards for case1/2 look completely different, mine looked exactly like case 2.